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my wife still needs space
August 31, 2001
10:08 am
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scherza
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In my art studies, I learned that when one is creating their magnum opus...or life's greatest work, you have to play with as many possibilities as you can before making creative decisions about the how and where of the final work. Artistic geniuses do this with their drawing pads and on their scratch compositions. They decide where the forms/shapes/musical phrases/word patterns will occur and where there will be creative use of space and/or sound.

I apply this to my life. I am naturally bisexual, but I have made a creative decision to be monogamous with my husband...after struggling with the many internal forces and possibilities.

I have also learned that feelings are very powerful and are greatly affected by thoughts. I fell in love with a woman recently and almost broke up my family over this. I still love this woman...and my husband knows this...but I also love him and have creatively decided to stay with him and just embrace my nature while also directing my thoughts towards monogamy with him. He loves me very much...so this was made easier. Had he been angry, demanding, jealous, or controlling I probably would have had trouble with it. He gave me the space to work this out myself...and I am giving us space to be just us two. This is just my life and my creative decision.

I have friends that have open marriages and enjoy more than one relationship without complications. This is their creative decision and their life. The thing I really love about all of this is that everyone is totally open and honest about themselves and a lot of love and acceptance gets generated. No one tries to control anyone else...they just go by what they need and can live with and no one is made to be wrong.

My husband took his pain to his pen and wrote an award winning piece of fiction based on his struggles with loving me.

Directing my thoughts away from my other love interest isn't always easy. But I do it on my job...to keep sane...and know that once I START the thought change process, it can begin to flow there naturally.

Spiritually and intellectually, I believe that we have a natural chaos within us...that is deterministic and nonlinear and dynamic. We can manage it to some extent but not completely. We can steer it like a ship on water, but the weather and fluid forces will always affect it to some degree. With a strong will, we can get to our destination eventually. We are ultimately the ones that choose that destination. I have found that I operate completely on what I *really* want.

I had to spend a year away from my "love interest" in order to reframe my orientation to her as being just a friendship...and without completely destroying the love I have for her.

There have been times when I was not at all physically interested in sex...my mind was a tempest of scientific thought and very far away from sensuality, but I directed my thoughts to sex with my husband and usually have been able to get there. My husband is very respectful of my boundaries and doesn't push. I am respectful of his needs and do this as an expression of love for him.

Also...my first marriage broke up amicably...and we share a relaxed and loving co-parenting of our daughter. My first husband couldn't live with my nature. At first he was angry and slammed his fist on the car dash and screamed that he wanted a divorce. The prospect of divorce was difficult for me then, but he calmed down and agreed to a trial separation. I accepted his anger and frustration without making him wrong. A year later, at our agreed time period, he said he still wanted the divorce so I wrote the decree in terms that he and I could both live with and filed it in court. The divorce cost only $128. He took me to lunch afterwards and we celebrated our friendship together. I was invited to his wedding last month and our daughter was a bride's maid...and I cried over how grown up and beautiful she looked...! Our daughter has free access to FOUR adults that love and care about her now. We also parent her "on a handshake" by defining our terms as we go. I have "sat on" child support checks to help him recover from some financial problem. He has taken her on a weekend that I was usually to get her so I could go on a vacation with my husband. I have an investment account for our daughter's education that anyone in the family can put money into as a gift to her. Now that I am not poor, I put all of her child support into this account. I celebrate my winter holiday on a different day than he does, so our daughter gets to be with everyone during that time of year. I have flown her to her father's parents house and work to maintain that relationship, as well.

It is so much fun and exciting to be myself so completely while everyone else is also doing the same. Everyone is such an individual. When I grew up, eveyone was so glued together under the control of an alcoholic drug abuser...this is so refreshingly different.

August 31, 2001
8:08 pm
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Molly
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schezra, you sound like one lucky lady. I don't think most people have evolved to that level of sophistication.

August 31, 2001
10:15 pm
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sue2001
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WOW!!!!!schezra!!!!! what else is there to say.... Sue

September 5, 2001
8:43 am
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hollowman
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Well, I haven't written in a few weeks. Things are starting to get a little better between us, but I have one concern. I am having a problem with trusting her again. I feel good a few days and things start to get back to some type of "normal" but then my mind starts to mess with me, I start thinking about things that happened in the past 9 months and I have questions that I want to ask her. When I do she gets really mad and depressed, I tell her that I have stopped "checking" on her, and I really have, but I ask her these things for a little peace of mind. She says that my questions are just accusations and I really do not feel that way at all. It is just a type of reassurance for me, after all the lies I have caught her in I cannot seem to help myself. She says that I am just dragging out the rebuilding process and she wonders if it will ever be put behind us for good. I still love her and I truly do want to work things out for us but I wonder if I can live with someone who has repeatedly lied to me and watched me suffer for 9 months. I know in my heart I am the worlds biggest fool for wanting to continue my marriage but I think it will be worth it if we can make it. Should I just quit asking these questions and try to ignore the pain I feel when I start wondering what has happened, she says she has told me everything that went on and I want to believe her but I cannot ignore what I feel in my heart. Please help me!

September 5, 2001
8:49 am
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sue2001
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your heart is right... I ask my husband about things that happened or why... and he says am I always going to have to deal with you questioning me... are you always going to bring this up when you are upset..........
or he says BECAUSE I DID THAT IS WHY.

September 5, 2001
10:50 am
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strentghcourageandwisdom
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OK Hollowman,
You aren't going to like this,part, but remember I previously said, the "wronged" partner needs to check themselves to see if they really want to be with this person, I wont re-write it, But listen at yourself, you are doing exactly what I was talking about. Constantly , bringing it up. to be fair, it is human to be having a hard time with this, and to let her know. But will nine months be enough, 9 years, how long.
Some books on infidelity suggest that the "wrong" party has a right to behave this way, as long as it takes for them to feel better. You have the right, no doubt about it. But will it help your marriage, not one bit. Do you want your wife to hate to see you coming...because she knows she is about to be "grilled", Do you want to her to start to talk to her friends away from home, because she doesn't want to have to answer 'twenty questions". Do you want her to actually just hate being home, because she feels under scrutiny or in prison, because, you have made your home a survelleince zone. Why would she want to share her thoughts with you,
when she knows , you will scrutinize them for some sign of
weakness, or other fault. After all, now that she has been found "unfaithful" you get to be "superior". This is just a view from the other side of the fence. I hope you are not offended, but I only write this becuase you sound like you really do still love her, and you might want to stop this behavior before it gets the best of both of you.
Decide if you want to be with her. If you do, get on with it.
If you don't think you can forgive AND forget, do yourself and her and favor and move on.
BTW, I have read that in general men really never can forgive and forget infidelity, and that one of the main reasons is that besides pride, they are geniunely not just
hurt but that the ANGER is the part that is never really buried. And if they can not express it physically they express it in other ways. Are you doing this?

September 5, 2001
11:22 am
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pill
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here's the deal:
she knows you know, you know that she knows you know. OK?

so, it's time to move forward. You must assume - on her part - that she has told you everything.

Your goal: to trust and love and be together forever. What's getting in the way? You must be determined because it's what you've decided you want.

Those are the facts. Let the past go.

September 6, 2001
1:32 am
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ranmar1
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Boy, you are in an enviable position. If she truly wants to rebuild together, why don't you both go to joint counseling, and work through the mistrust and questions. I bet it feels good to have her want to get back into the relationship, I wish I had that opportunity to experience it too. I probably would be going through exactly what you are, the feelings of what if, the doubts, the questioning of the sincerity. Once the trust has been violated, it's awfully hard to earn it back. But just her wanting to try again should say a whole lot to you. I would give her the opportunity to get back into it, and go for the counseling, as additional help in putting what happened into perspective, and why. I'm sure the hurt will take a while to subside, so don't expect everything to be back to normal, because it's not. Hang in there. I take my hat off to you.........Randy
aka:Ranmar1

September 18, 2001
8:41 am
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hollowman
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We made it for one week of mostly "normal" behavior and then I went to lunch with her one day and she yelled at me for asking her a question too many times. When she yelled all of the hurt I felt inside came rushing to the top and I chewed her out pretty good. By the time I arrived home I felt at an all time low and called her to apologize for yelling at her, and I really meant it. We have made it through another week and it is going pretty well, I had an intense talk with a minister who had similiar experiences in his life many years ago and his marriage survived. He really helped me and I wish I could get my wife to go but she does not want to face a minister of any kind now, and I can understand how she feels. My wife says one of the problems she has had with our marriage is that she has never felt comfortable discussing her deepest feelings and thoughts with me, she says I am to "black and white" about life and that is true to a point. Right now I am really trying to focus on having more compassion for people in general and especially her. I do want her to be able to tell me her true feelings. As the minister put it "she was hearing from him what she was wanting to hear from me". If anyone has any advice on how I can get her to open up to me, besides patience, I am already working hard on that, please reply. Thanks

September 18, 2001
10:30 am
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pill
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... well.

Do you read the Bible? There's a wonderful bit of advice there. It's about judging. There's also a parable about glass houses.

Think about that. Work on growing your compassion... look into your heart and see what's there... is there warmth and glowing? is there greyness and cold?

To truly be compassionate with her you have to have it to give. To have it to give, you must have it for yourself first. Same with love: you must have it first, to be able to give it. It's like growing a garden: You plant it, you grow it, then when you harvest it, you can give it away.

How do you feel about yourself? Are you loving, kind, gentle with your own soul? If you are, it will be easy showing the same to your wife.

You are so very lucky that she is still with you. Show her now how grateful you are for your togetherness, that the past is so far behind you, you can't even remember the hurts. People are not easily fooled - deep down inside they know what's real, and what is merely acting.

BE REAL.

September 18, 2001
2:25 pm
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Molly
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Its one of the hardest things in life to do. Listening, just listening. Not second guessing, not trying to figure out how it effects you, or even your opinion on what is being said. Not getting bored and drifiting in thought, not judging where her thought process is taking her, or where she ever got this notion. Just reafirming, that you still have a pulse and have hearing. Acknowledgement words, like I hear you, yes, go on, and then simply repeating what she said, not what you thought she said. I had to laugh, there is even a class on this at our community college, so don't feel bad.
I really got ticked yesterday, was starting a conversation with my mate, not three words into it, he hits the remote for the TV to go on, ugh ugh , this is a clue 🙂 oh, and if she does walk in the room and you are watching the television, turning your head, and eye contact works great. Don't loose your sense of humor.

September 24, 2001
3:43 am
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Same
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Hi Hollowman,

How are you doing? It break my heart to see what is going on between you and your wife because I also just discovered that my husband is seeing another girl outside. I could only wish that my husband is willing to try to come back to me and give our relationship a chance to re-build. I know you must have gone through a really tough time, but just remember that at least you have the chance to build on it again, so work on it while you can.

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