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my mother is a raging drunk
June 3, 2007
2:41 pm
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loverbee
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I am so pissed. My mother always gets drunk while she is on the phone with me. She will start off the conversation very well and then get drunker and drunker while we are on the phone and she is such a bitch when she is drunk and she lays such huge guilt trips. Its freaking rediculous. I hate her sometimes and I hate talking to her. How do I deal with this?

June 3, 2007
2:47 pm
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loverbee
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My god man, by the end of that conversation, I had no clue what the hell we were talking about. It was rediculous. She just kept repeating the same darn thing and none of it made any sense and it all was a big mess and she kept saying that my choice of career was "unacceptable" and I was being rediculous because she was the one who was supposed to have the culinary career and I was just wasting my life. Now mind you this entire conversation was occurring without me saying a damn word. It was like she was talking to herself. I always have second thoughts about calling her or picking up the phone and every time I do, she proves me right. I end up not talking to her more than once a month because she is such a negative part of my life.

June 3, 2007
2:54 pm
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atalose
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I think the only way not to become stressed is to not even engage. You are going to need to set the tone of the conversations with your mother. If she begins to pull in that drunken ranting quacking direction, simply say I have to go now talk to you another time. Hang up the phone and turn it off, don't give her the stage to perform on. That is the only way to reprogram the way you react and reprogram her for what you will and will not accept.
And remember, no one can make you feel quilt without your permission. You need to work through this quilt and learn not to accept it. It is not your fault your mother put her career into a bottle rather then a kitchen!!

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

June 3, 2007
3:04 pm
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loverbee
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Did you ever meet someone who was so fantastic at manipulating people and making them feel sorry for them that you ended up feeling bad for living? That is my mother. People say its a choice to feel guilt, but she is the master of it. I can't help it. Its so hard not to feel it.

June 3, 2007
3:24 pm
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atalose
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I know it's very hard beleive me I've been there. I'm sure she doesn't plot it out it's probably more of a handed down behavior she learned growing up. Quilt used to manipulate others is a horriable, hurtful and unloving weapon to use. It may help you if you can accept she uses quilt because she doesn't know any other way and that you don't have to accept her ill ways. If she's that drunk when she calls you I'm sure by the next time she doesn't even remember what she's said to you.
Drunks quack all the time, it's always everyone else fault for there ill lives and short comings, stop being her target for her rants and rages.
How does others in your family deal with her?

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

June 3, 2007
3:33 pm
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loverbee
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No one has ever been able to help her. My sister talks to her a whole lot more often than I do and when I talk to her its usually we end up in a huge argument and then don't talk for two months and then the cycle starts over. Its pathetic really. Its so annoying though. I hate how she starts crying and saying "I love you, you're my baby" and then I get pissed and start telling her that she is drunk and that she is being rediculous and then we argue and then it goes from there where I end up yelling just to get the anger out but she is yelling too so she doesn't hear a word I say and then I end up telling her I h ave to go but not before calling her a lousy drunk. God this is so annoying.

June 3, 2007
3:47 pm
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fantas
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Loverbee, I know she is your mom but you just have to hang up when she is drunk. You are talking to her at that time but to the liqour and her demons. Besides, while you get your emotions all worked out, she if off to sleep in a drunken stupor and will not remember a thing when she wakes up. The guilt is what keeps you codependently attached to her. I hope that as you work on healing yourself, you will be able to extricate yourself from her web of guilt inducing ways. Btw, what is happening with you father's paternity test?

June 3, 2007
3:51 pm
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fantas
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I meant...you are not talking to her but the liquor... and emotions worked up not worked out. Amazing how a typo can change the meaning of a sentence:)

June 3, 2007
4:03 pm
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loverbee
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I gotcha. As for my father...well, we are going to have the paternity test done soon but not until I speak with a lawyer about all the trust situations. My aunts and uncles are very concerned about that. I am just trying to stay sane. My father is very manipulative so I want to make sure that he doesn't think this is an invitation for abuse. Its all so confusing.

June 3, 2007
4:12 pm
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loverbee
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I sometimes feel as though my mother and father were perfect for eachother. They are both nuts and abusive and they both need to leave me the hell alone. Maybe if they started obsessing over eachother instead of obsessing over how to make me miserable, I would be better off.

June 3, 2007
8:18 pm
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loverbee
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I talked with my sister. I think part of the reason I even speak with my mother is so that I don't leave all the burden onto my sister. If I didn't divide it a little, my sister would have one hell of a time dealing with her and I love my sister with all my heart. So that is that. But my mother is nuts and I have to accept that. She would be nuts even without the alcohol because she is paranoid and bipolar as well. Apparently part of the reason that she went nuts is because she had an affair and well...here i am...the result of a stupid mistake. But I am not a mistake. I am a very precious person. I have learned that after 23 years of feeling like a mistake and now entering my 25th birthday come september, I like being me and I wouuldn't change a thing. But my mother is still annoying and a guilt tripper.

June 3, 2007
9:55 pm
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thewall
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So was my mother. I feel for you.

But the one thing that helped me was the book "Understanding the Borderline Mother". Even if your mom isnt borderline, it has some great tips in there for dealing with a difficult mom. The other book I highly recommend is "Whos pulling your strings" which is about how to handle manipulators and guilt trippers.

June 3, 2007
10:02 pm
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atalose
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It's good you can talk to your sister and get her support. I think if you both come up with healthier ways for yourselves to deal with mom and become allies towards that you'll both not feel so overwhelmed. If you both work together in setting boundaries you'll both have more peace and less quilt.

Those books thewall recommended sounds like something you should check out.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

June 3, 2007
10:25 pm
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loverbee
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Does it sound sick that I think my sister and I are just waiting for her for her liver to fail? I think that it would almost take more effort to try to start having a healthier relationship with her now that it has been so unhealthy for so long. And its not totally unhealthy, its just that its practically nonexistant for me and its totally a reverse parent child relationship with my sister. I give up. At least I gave up a long time ago.

June 4, 2007
4:19 am
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fantas
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Loverbee, what do you think would happen if you and your sister did an intervention for your mom and told to get help or you are out of her life? Just wondering?

June 4, 2007
8:44 am
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risingfromtheashes
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loverbee,

I am also waiting for my dad's liver to fail..it will...it can't be healthy at all.

it's a mean thing to say, but he really just is a waste of air.

my dad USED to do the same.

And my way out was excusing myself from the situation.

I used to get up and leave...gotta go, see ya.

Keep your convos with mom short and sweet. Maybe call more often to relieve the guilt, if any. Call see how her day went, then get off the phone.

Don't GIVE her the chance to be on teh phone long enough to get drunk.

You don't deserve those tirades...but I wonder if part of you feels like you must stay on the phone with her and listen to her garbage???

You don't. You have better things to do with your time.

I know it's hard - but when she changes course, say "mom, I gotta go, I'll talk to you tomorrow".

and hang up.

June 4, 2007
9:50 am
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loverbee
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We have done many interventions with her. She did go to rehab but then she relapsed and never came back around again. Now we tell her she has a drinking problem and most of the time she just says that she is not an alcoholic and we tell her she is and then we fight and she ends up crying. I just do't really care that much about her because I have never gotten to know her as a sober person but my sister has. So she tells me what a great mom she used to be and I just don't believe it really. It sucks.

June 4, 2007
10:13 am
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risingfromtheashes
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loverbee.

so what if she did admit it? what then?

You know, you sound alot like me.

My dad is an alcoholic and most of my interaction with him was me trying to get him to admit "I" was right.

On anything...he would confront me on anything, just to argue.

And I always knew I was right - but I always wanted HIM to say I was right.

But why?

I realized that I was NEVER going to get him to say it, admit it, give me what I needed.

So, why fight it?

I mean, what is it going to accomplish really?

After all this time - does it matter who is right?

Will her admitting it make you feel happy that you are right?

Is trying to get her to admit it making you happy or making you miserable?

I grew up always wanting to be right...not just with my dad, but with everyone.

it came from my dad not validating me....not giving me confidence...not making me feel like I matter. Not making me feel like I WAS intelligent or worthy.

I have had this self righteous attitude for many years...and it infected all my relationships.

IN fact, I lost many friends cuz I always had to be right.

And yeah, most of the time I was.

But because I always pestered others to tell me I was right...they just walked away.

I learned to validate ME - I am right and I know it and to hell with everyone else.

I see that your need to be right about this is alot like my need to be right with my dad. And your need to "prove" mom wrong about paternity...again why?

You know you are right - look at why you need HER to admit it.

Then look at "what if"...what if she never admits anything.

and "what if" she does?

The game of tug of war ends when someone drops their end of the rope. And dropping your end of the rope does not make you a loser or a quitter....like you may believe.

And that's a whole nother issues - not wanting to feel like you lost or quit...another issue I grapple with.

Do you really want to keep arguing about this? Is it worth it?

Along my recovery, I learned that sometimes it's just not worth it. When I found that my daughter and I were bickering over stupid things (color of the sky for example)...I would say to her "is it really worth arguing about? you have your opinion and I have mine, and we aren't going to see eye to eye and that's ok".

Mind you, she was FIVE...she took this skill to school and when other kids would bicker, she would say, is it really worth arguing over? lets play and have fun and drop it.

Dropping it is not conceeding...it's not letting them win...it's winning back your own dignity and your own peace of mind. It's not continuing a sensless battle to prove something that you already know is true.

I know these things you speak of...been there. And there is hope for peace in the future.

I now CHOOSE when I want to be around my dad...when it suits me...when I have the energy for him...and when it gets too much, I walk away politely.

I could EASILY argue until I am blue in the face...but what will it accomplish???

My dad used to say his dad wasn't complete until he had a knock down drag out with me each morning...that his day didn't start until then, I was like his cup of coffee to start the day. And to add to it, he was more happy with himself if he could reduce me to tears with the fight. When I got older, I could control them - realizing I was giving him what he wanted...that walking away was the better option cuz it was what he DID NOT want to happen.

I regained my own power and control.

I often wonder if he is my dad...he always said I was the milkman's daughter...and treated me as such.

But taking a paternity test would prove nothing...maybe to him...but not to me.

In any case, I am rambling...just wanted to share how I gained control of my situation that is much similar to yours.

June 4, 2007
10:14 am
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risingfromtheashes
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oh, and my bro wanted to do an intervention but I said I would not be part of it, nor support it.

cuz unless the party WANTS help, no amount of intervention is going to make a bit of good.

June 4, 2007
10:18 am
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risingfromtheashes
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one more thing and then I will stop...lol.

my dad does not approve of the move I made, my career choices or my new baby coming.

but so what.

I want it, it works for me and that's all that matters.

Your career choice is a good one and you know it. Sure, it would be nice if mom supported it, but she won't. Maybe out of spite, maybe for other reasons.

But no matter what mom thinks - YOU KNOW that it is the right choice for you. You know what your talents are and how successful you can be.

That's all that really matters.

As long as you know in your heart you are doing the right thing - then to hell with everyone else.

It's a hard thing to learn, but once you learn this - your life opens up to you. It's yours to live however you choose. Your mistakes and successes are yours to make as you see fit....you own them...nobody else is responsible for them...nobody else can tell you how to live your life.

You are doing such a wonderful job at pursuing your dreams...you are going thru some exciting changes...some are scary, but it isn't holding you back.

HOORAY for you!!! Keep it up. Even if family doesn't support you.

June 4, 2007
11:21 am
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loverbee
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Well in terms of my mother not approving of it, its the fact that you can't get her to go to rehab if she won't admit she is drinking. So we give up. I don't give a crap if my mother is not approving of what I choose to do its just that I hate that it all comes out of jealousy. she doesn't like the fact that she didn't graduate college and all that so I just get sick of it. I really don't care all that much I just hate talking to her.

June 4, 2007
8:28 pm
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lonely and addicted
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My mother is a drunk and a drug addict, she has also been married, divorced and then back together with an abuser. I let my co-dependancy go wild and tried to take care of her for YEARS! I talked to doctors in the ER rooms, family, anyone I could think of to get her help. NO GO. I lived in a very healthy foster home where I learned how to live a "normal" life and after 20 years I learned to let go.

I know people may think I am cold or heartless, or as my mother says, mean. The last phone call from the hospital 3 years ago did it. She came in half dead, meth, alcohol, morphine and whatever else you can think of in her system and I was suppose to do something. NOT
Somehow the county finally listened and she went into forced rehabilitation and halfway house. I told her I would help her if she just kept that man out of her life and for awhile she did. She ended up having heart surgery and when she came out of the hospital, found a place and got on social security, she called me and told me this man was moving back in with her. I quit. I have not spoken to her for a year and a half. I know she bad mouths me, telling my relatives that I won't let her see her grandkids ect...

I have graduated from college at 36, I have a new relationship and I am happy.

We get tierd of taking care of others so why do we do it?
Loverbee, you don't want to burden your sister, what about you? Your sister should let her go also if it is causing that much pain. I know how hard it is TRUST ME! I know how you feel and want to offer any advice that I can but you need to take that first step.

Intervention doesn't just happen, people avoid the problem until they either can't handle it anymore or she's dead. Not to be too blunt but that is what will happen. No one ever wants to admit they have a problem. I have no idea what my mother is doing, if she's back at it or not, but I don't have to take care of her anymore.
Holler if you need too. I hope I didn't sound to mean, but it is a cut and dry choice, just don't wait 20 years like me to decide.

L & A

June 4, 2007
8:40 pm
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loverbee
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Intervention is not an option cause I feel its just a pointless waste of my time to try to get her to do it. I made a decision that I am going to try to only communicate with her through the mail. No more phone calls. So I am hoping that eases my mind and all that. I I just don't really feel like dealing with her. I amm sick of it. I am cranky as it is. I hate her sometimes.

June 5, 2007
10:22 am
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risingfromtheashes
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loverbee....distance...it is the ONLY thing keeping me sane.

You mentioned saying mean things to mom....thankfully mom doesn't remember it when sober.

I don't think you want your mom to pass away and the last thing you said was "I hope your liver fails"...it will haunt you. 26 was angry with his dad and his last words were "I hate you"....10 years later and it haunts him and he feels incredibly guilty.

Your anger is justifiable. You were shortchanged...and continue to be.

But instead of trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole...how about finding the square hole for the square peg to fit into?

Meaning - accepting that mom IS who she is...isn't going to change. And the only thing you can do (which you seem to be doing) is find what you are comfortable with - what you can acccept.

If you can't accept her drunken stupor calls - don't take them. If it is painful to be around her - don't be. If all you can do is write and communicate via email - then do it.

You do what YOU need to do. You are the adult. You are in control. It is your job to protect YOUR own well being now.

As a child - mom did a poor job. And that was wrong and sucks. But now you are an adult. And it's YOUR choice how you live your life and who you allow to abuse you.

If mom's continued stupor feels bad to you - then get out. Don't allow the abuse to continue.

I know it's hard. For many years, I rationalized that I couldn't walk away from my mother, just because of my dad. So, I allowed myself to be the brunt of his abuse.

Now they are in Florida and I am in New York...and you know what? I get by without my mom now. I do miss her, but I feel we are ALL happier. I am not being abused and mom isn't in the middle of our arguments or being forced to choose sides. I don't ask about dad and he doesn't ask about me.

I miss my mom horribly, and it's not fair I had to give her up cuz of him....BUT my own mental health has improved TEN FOLD now that I am not around him.

Life is worth living these days.

And I truly believe it was because of the separation from my abuser.

Ambient abuse is as real as outright phsyical or mental abuse.

As long as you stay in contact with mom, the wounds of the past stay raw and open...and it's hard to move on and focus on new healthy pursuits. Staying stuck in the anger and pain of what they did to you is no way to live. You are bright, energetic and have a very bright future ahead of you....why waste the energy stressing about what could have been, should have been, but wasn't?

June 5, 2007
10:49 am
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Desert Moon
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loverbee

I'm sorry for the pain you must be going through, its hard when your loved one lays a guilt trip on you in a drunken state. Just know you cannot control what she does nor take responsibility. If you choose to call her or answer her calls knowing the outcome you are giving her permission to act in this abusive way toward you. Don't let her. Talk to her if you must, before the alcohol leaves her a babbling mess. As soon as she starts to go off, simply say, "Mom, I love you, but I have to go now," and hang up. Whatever she does on her end is up to her, but you need to take control on your end, dont let yourself become the victim. Talk to you sister and tell her to do the same. Your mom may not like it but she will eventually realize she wont be able to treat you like that anymore.

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