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My mate abused my daughter
December 31, 2000
1:33 pm
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Molly
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Like if you can figure out how to turn back the clock for 6 years, can you share so I can go back more, greedy huh. I get from Brenda and many others, the arrogant appropriate response, that many have, we all can preach the correct thing, but doing it is well... Like I'll leave if he hits me, and one hit and I'm gone, yea right, well some can and some can't. But we keep striving, age experience, and those damn emotions get in the way, we survive as best we can ,do the best we can do. I am sure she is comming from love in her advice, and that is the way we need to learn to accept the thoughts of others, that hurt us, so that it does not hurt us, and thank them for sharing , it keeps the blood pressure down. That thing with the real dad, is going to explode in your face, sorry to bring up the issue, but if nothing else, that needs to be prepared for, and the therapy will guide you in that relm, you can't after all this tell the daughter or son to keep secerets, and of course the dad will blame you get your shield up, and be ready. Life, can any one direct us to easy street? In the mean time, eat your favorites, and celebrate the moment. Its the real thing, and the best thing to do right now.

December 31, 2000
2:23 pm
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Brenda
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Molly, there is a BIG difference between procrastinating about leaving a man who hits you and procrastinating about taking your own CHILD out of a spiritually, psychologically and physically dangerous situation such as the one discussed above.
Also, if this person were to truly know what love was, she would not be with this man. You can not "love" someone who has hurt and betrayed your own
child in such a peverse and cruel way.
The "love" would just end.
This lady needs serious psychological help for she can not tell the difference from love and need, nor is she a fit mother, and this is not just in MY opinion.
You say her daughter trusted her enough to tell her, well it is well known that abused children will attempt or will tell the mother, but what the mother does afterwards is what teaches the child about love, trust and morality.
I believe the unhealthiness and confusion of the mother, and I do have compassion for her, is what is being created in this womans life.
IT is up to her as the nuclei of this family to seek and get the appropriate help and support to find the strength to do what is not only right and healthy by her child but for herself.
She needs to understand that this man betrayed not only her child, but her also and in the most utmost disrespectful and abusive way. This should not be acceptable to her.....and I cant stand her referring to him as her "mate" when in fact he is not, he is mating with their own fu**&ing blood.......

December 31, 2000
3:20 pm
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janes
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In any event vitrolic responses do not make anyone move faster toward what any one of us may see an the "best" move.

Each has to do what each has to do...."right" or "Wrong"...who is the final judge?

It is often not our choice to make

As angered as we may be...it serves little ppurpose here.

Each post has something of value...

When we or others post - each statement is sorted through by many others...

Wheat from chaff.

Good luck to all

Take what you need ...let the rest go...

December 31, 2000
7:53 pm
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Brenda
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neglected or abused children are EVERYONES business, if we lived in a some of the caring close knit communities of the past, then this woman would have the help and support she needs. I understand that she is as much a victim as her daughter, but when it comes to our children, it is important that we all help the child, adults can take care of themselves.

December 31, 2000
9:29 pm
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vr
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I haven't read the whole thread but I get the idea and I have to say that I understand Brenda's responses even though thay may sound harsh. She is just so damned angry about it. Perhaps she has some history with this I don't know. I agree that all three of you need counseling and I agree that your daughter will be paying very close attention to how you handle this situation. She came to you for help. Help! At this point, your needs are secondary. Ensure her safety. If this man is in the house, make sure they are not left alone. I know you say it was years ago but he has lied to you before, violated a sacred trust, a child, and even if he is remorseful (and if he is remorseful he will understand)do not allow the opportunity for ANYTHING to happen. And please read about codependency and addictive relationships. ^p^

January 1, 2001
4:24 am
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so confused
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I really wish people would read the entire thread. This would stop a lot of the repeating. My "MATE" is NOT living with us. I kicked him out when I found out about what happened.

I have read all advice and I will do what I need to do.

Brenda I asked you to please keep your opinions to yourself. If you must post on my thread...fine. This will be my last post.

Janes and Molly, thanks for your insights. I hope you have a wonderful New Year. Thank you for your prayers. You are in my prayers.

xox o xo xo oxox

January 1, 2001
4:45 am
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chook
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So Confused, have faith and follow your intuiton, deep down you know whats right for you and your children. I have been following your thread and feel for you and your daughter. Please seek help it is beneficial! A little guidance will help you make your decisions, right now you are clouded and it's hard to make the right ones. Love and best wishes to you.

January 1, 2001
12:48 pm
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janes
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Let's not fool ourselves...in the caring closeknit communities of the past abuse of women and ch8ildrne was commenplace...and in many communities accepted bucause womaen and children were property. Even after that tended to die away the attitudes continued.

Even 25 years ago women were abused and the authorities and agencies would tell her she should change or they would tell her to figure out what she had done wrong.

The abuse continues and the myth of the "caring community of the past" is just that.

There is more help and support today than ever before. At least now children are believed and so are women when they speak of abuse

But we also now have the problem of some (note I said SOME) men and women being FALSELY accused of abuse as well.

Brenda you are right that neglected and abused children are everyone's business. As a teacher I have reported suspected abuse as well as neglect. I have watched county agencies band aid the problems and send children back to the neglectful situations for the sake of the "family".

I was attacked by a ten year old student (emotionally impaired) the state troopers filed a report and NOTHING WAS DONE . The child remains in a cockroach/lice infested home with parents who are lunatics. The courts and the social workers and Mental health did ABSOULLUTELY NOTHING. Then special education law allows this same family--who the school has done EVERYTHING FOR- the law allows them to sue the school... The school won but it cost $35,000.00 or more. Money that could have been spent on many children

We live in a society that SAYS they care about children. That is the first lie. I read an article by Bob GReen a columnist ...a parent and step parent were sent to prison for killing one of their children--the child was bound in barb wire until dead...A JUDGE SET THEM FREE BECAUSE MAYBE THE FOUR YEAR OLD WAS HARD TO HANDLE.

There is alot that needs to be corrected. There is a lot that needs to change. If we can change our corner of the world we need to.

So cunfused KNOWS what she needs to do..we are not with her and only know what she tells us. She may alread have her appointments...Her "mate" may be already out of the home.

It is so easy to SAY what needs to be done. Being the one doing it is a different matter.

Spite, meanness and name calling never lead to change.

We need the compassion to offer ideas and support without negetivity. We can be impassioned...and often are...we can hound people in positive ways.

We need to be as compassionate and understanding as we expect others to be....

We need to love above all else...

Faith hope and charity...the greatest of these is love.

Love your enemy, do good to those that harm you.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

Turn the other cheek

These are just words unless we back them with love.

The Lord never said let yourself be used and abused though. He didn't mean for Christians to be stupid.

He created Eve from Adam's side...not his head to be over man or his foot to be downtrodden but the side...to be equal.

January 1, 2001
3:41 pm
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christina
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I just want to say that i totaly agree with you Brenda! You have a good head on your shoulders, don't lose it. It's unfortunate that others can't see reality as it should be seen.

January 1, 2001
3:41 pm
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christina
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I just want to say that i totaly agree with you Brenda! You have a good head on your shoulders, don't lose it. It's unfortunate that others can't see reality as it should be seen.

January 1, 2001
4:05 pm
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Brenda
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First of all, thanks Christina and to others who are supporting my posts, but I do not want this to turn into an Us and THEM thing, and I do not have personal experience with sexual abuse at all. I am speaking from the experience of one who has been in adult abusive relationships and was neglected and abused as a child. I have come far, but I dont pretend to know everything, but I can say I have come 360 degrees in my learning, healing and growing.
Does this make me a better person? I believe not, I believe we are all equal in gods eyes, we are all on our seperate paths, whether that be one of self destruction, trauma and abuse or one of purpose, health and goal achievement....we are all divine and we are all one.
I feel somewhat bad for some of my reactions on this thread, but only because I caused pain to the one who started this thread, not because I no longer believe in what I am saying, I guess this was my motive:

I saw so many giving the lady who began this thread what I could only call coddling and perhaps enabling. I felt they were buying into her denial in a sense and I felt a strong need to "shock" her into seeing it from the perspective of her child and society in general.
I still feel "what she does after her child has told her of the abuse" is the most important thing and teacher her girl everything, I am not sure if she realizes how much power she really has to help form her daughters psyche, I also dont think she realises how much power she has to recreate her own life, a life of healing and self respect.
I am angry because I feel the powerlessness of the daughter and I feel the powerlessness and what I can only call "apathy" of the mother.
I guess I am angry for the mother and child, who should be angry themselves.
I see codependency in the mother and her inappropriate reactions and responses to her situation and the situation of the child
I understand welfare authorities and others are quite pathetic now adays and am trying to get a message to the heart of the matter, the nucleiu, the mother, If she would put her own view on hold for a moment and what she has been doing up until this point ( cause it aint working ) then she will open up to the possibility that perhaps her way is dysfunctional and I dont blame her or hate her for this, because I know she must of learnt this during her own childhood, but it is up to her to break the cycle so that her own daughter does not end up depressed, abused and bearing a child who is also abused by her own mate.
blessings

January 1, 2001
7:09 pm
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janes
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I totally agree that what she does with the information from her daughter is the most important thing.

Her daughterNEEDS to see Mom take proactive steps to make HEWR daughter better. Screw the other adult in the equation...he is on his own.

That 's what many of us told this lady --
Get help for you and your daughter.

NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW.

However. None of us can make the calls for her and being compassionate is not always enabling not coddling.

January 2, 2001
4:47 pm
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Brenda said, "....because I caused pain to the one who started this thread."

It would seem to me that this misconception that we 'cause' emotional pain in others and that others 'cause' emotional pain in us, is one very real cause of triggering and sustaining our emotional pain.

It is my view that we only act as trigger events which may or may not trigger emotional responses in others, depending upon the learned (conditioned) stimuli retained in their emotional memories .

Is the above just me ego tripping and having an academic wank? I think not. I am quite concerned about this issue. It is the belief that others are responsible for our pain, that causes us to go on the attack, thus further triggering responses in them. It is a vicious circle.

Here in this thread we have very nice people. Yet within a short time these nice people are 'dueling'. It is really a duel between 'phantoms' from the past; emotional responses, that had we been cognitively developed and big enough, we would have made towards our parents, many years ago. Now we unknowingly vent these frustrated emotional responses upon 'parent substitutes'. The result is as you have seen; alienation of nice people.

No wonder wars are visited upon the human race. War is not a virus; we do it to ourselves. This thread appears to me to have developed into a 'mini-war'.

I sincerely hope that I have not 'triggered' further emotional responses by this posting. Please 'insert' soft and gentle intonations into my words as you read them. If you 'hear' harsh, judgemental intonations, I suggest that it is the voice of your father(mother) that you hear, not mine.

January 2, 2001
7:50 pm
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Molly
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Wow, what a boom for the new year!! While I was trying to catch a few rays in our 86 degree weather, and I thought that was hot. Every one is right. Brenda, abuse is abuse, wether physical, verbal, or sexual!!!! It is all evil, and not for children. As was stated in the thread, the perp, is out of the house. This happened several years ago. The abuse has not been sorted out, and as far as enabeling, or coddeling, yea, we are. In a sort, there is no way this woman can see past her feet right now. She needs to get emotionally stable since she just got hit with a train. She has just been open and honest with her EMOTIONAL delima, sure logic says do this or that and that is the turmoil. I trust that she will do the right thing, what ever that is for her. As far as women helping in this sort of thing HA, don't forget that we were property, and the men are the ones that got the support. Read the Bible, it says honor your husband, and boy in those days they ment it, if you were hit, it was your fault, and they could damn well do what ever they pleased with us or THEIR offspring. There are even churches that still support this concept. I support the response from TEZ, if we were alienated, the child would know no different, and feel loved, as that is the view of many molested children. My first toss into the theraputic arena, was facilitating Murder's and Rapist group, with incarcerated youth. I learned to disconnect my emotional history, and judgement, to be able to hear THEIR story. It was a big lesson for me, I can tell you that. In my clinic, I have worked with women who's mates have burned infants with irons, and cigarettes, now tell me what is worse??????? The first thing is to get the person emotionally stable, so that they can hear, and see, and begin to heal so that they can effect healing in their children. If the mom is undone, what can she do but continue the problem. The number one reason women stay with the abusive mates is that they feel alienated, and choose to live with the shame, because they have not done the hard work of healing themselves. So confused is, I do believe in the process of healing, and did the right thing by being alone, but we couldn't leave her all alone, get it? I am sure that if you can think with love in your heart, you could see and hear just how hard this would be for you, if it was your son, or spouse. Dealing with the emotional attachment, surprise, and shock, logic goes out the window, at least for a little while.

January 2, 2001
8:34 pm
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vr
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Tez, I whole heartedly agree with you. My opinions are my own, not meant to harm, but truthful to the best of my knowledge and abilities. And although I may feel a bit sad when someone is hurt by what I say, I do not feel antagonistic or defensive. I am somewhat interested in the reaction in fact. I like to see what things bring up those feelings in myself as well. I can remember you, several months ago, pushing me. We are all just doing what we can and what we believe might benefit her. It is up to her to take it or leave it (or dispute it). As long as we have no stake in what she does with it, life is calm.

January 2, 2001
9:04 pm
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Brenda
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I for one am not acting from "personal issues" but a genuine concern for the innocent, I am also not looking for reactings nor do I take pleasure in creating painful ones in others, I know I can trigger but I do not take responsibility for how this woman feels in response to what I have said. I am also not saying to her what I wished I had said to my parents, because fortunately neither were sexually abusive BUT, and everyone has a big butt, they were neglectful and emotonally abusive but I have come far since then. I do not have a lot of left over issues and what I do have I feel I am quite aware of and do not bring them up too often in my everyday communications or relationships.
Tez, as far as your comments, I find them to often be in the area of "mental masturbation" while tripping on ego, not much if any of what you have to say comes from a pure emotional and spiritual level. I am pretty tired of the pretentious talk that you come up with in respects to me and my posts....I find them rather controlling.

January 3, 2001
3:46 pm
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Brenda.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to practice what I preached on 2-Jan-01.

January 3, 2001
3:49 pm
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Vr
you said, "I can remember you, several months ago, pushing me. "

I did? I'm sorry about that... I really don't remember intentionally doing this.

January 3, 2001
3:53 pm
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Molly.
A very well said response. You obviously have 'walked the walk'.

January 3, 2001
7:24 pm
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Molly
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Thanks,Tez, I work at it. With my clients, I wouldn't stand a chance if I didn't.

January 12, 2001
1:17 am
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so confused
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January 12, 2001
1:23 am
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so confused
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Hello everyone! Well, it has been over two months since I found out about all of this. Life is trucking a long. My daughter is playing basketball and I am coaching her. I am also assisting my son's team. My daughter and I are also refereeing together. I thought it would be good for us. The mate is still moved out. There is no contact between her and him. just thought I would give you an update.

She and I have an appointment with a rev. from a local church. He is attending meetings 2 nights a week. SAA. Well, keep us in your prayers. Thanks again for listening.

January 12, 2001
6:39 am
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janes
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great place to start! Amazing life does go on.

It's tough but seeking helpis the best way.

Beware of anyone...rev. or not who may ask your daughter if she in any way started any of it.

Praying for you all.

j-

January 12, 2001
9:42 am
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"So confused".......way to go.

Welcome back to some good rational decision making. I'm very happy for you and your daughter. This is probably what both of you needed. How wonderful that she is spending some good times with her Mom. She's a lucky girl really, not alot of moms's take that time and give it to their daughters in such a close, positive way. In coaching her and referreeing with her, you'll be teaching and she'll be learning lessons from you without either of you knowing it.

How are you? I'm sure feelings still rage inside of you even though you have outwardly put your daughter number one on your list. Don't forget to be kind to yourself in this healing also.

Way to go....what a terrific base on which to build a counseling series which may not be too pleasant.Good luck, please keep us posted. Be prayin for you.

January 12, 2001
6:02 pm
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gingerleigh
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Yes, congrats So Confused! You've come a long way, baby. (And yes, I did read the entire thread. I've been hanging out in the back just watching you grow and sort this out.)

Vitriolic responses aside, this is a support group, not just for the person who starts the thread, but for all. And support doesn't always mean making someone feel better... sometimes it means showing someone pain so that they will act positively to change things.

You (and your daughter) are gonna be fine. I'm really proud of you (and heck, I don't even know you). It's been a painful thread for me to follow, because you are going through what my mother must have gone through when she found out about my painful past. Dredged up a lot of painful memories for me.

Keep on truckin', you are in all of our thoughts and hearts.

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