September 29, 2010
My husband grew up in a foster home/group home for boys and was horribly abused both physically and sexually by the older boys living in the home from the age of 9 until 16...he has struggled his entire life over his sexual identity...he was raped by boys over and over, and altho he only wants women and is not attracted, he often has feelings of confusion because, as a young boy, he eventually grew to enjoy parts of his abuse. We have had many issues in our life together as a result of his abuse...most recently...I've found that he has looked at pre-teen pornography online...he is the step-father to my 11 year old daughter...and I learned from her that he had 3 or 4 sexually inappropriate conversations with her, asking her about her knowledge of masterbation and sex...and later giving her information on both...altho my daughter says he has never touched her or made her feel uncomfortable, I am worried that there is a possibility that he could one day abuse her (he says that WOULD NEVER HAPPEN)...my husband said he is not attracted to children in anyway and he only looked at the nearly nude pictures online of the young girls out of curiosity after seeing one of these sites by accident. I don't know whether to believe him and I've required that he go back to seeing his therapist, he has an app't in 2 days with his sexual abuse counceler which has helped him in the past with his bi-sexual confusion. I am worried that I will never be able to trust him again and our marriage could be over...I will no longer allow him alone with my daughter because of his inappropriate conversation with her and his viewing of the sites showing preprubescent girls in underwear...I'm worried that due to his past abuse as a child...that he'll always have sexual issues and a normal healthy marriage will be impossible for us... and will I always wonder if he's peeking at my daughter as she grows up...I don't know what to do? He is a very loving husband and step father, and both my children adore him, neither of my children can imagine life without him...but can I ever trust him again...can councelling truly help him?
September 27, 2010
First off, I think that it is a really courageous and brave thing that you come here to this site to openly share what is going on with you.
There are many, many helpful expereinced non-judgemental folks here to help you.
Mine is only one slant and perspective, so please keep this in mind.....
I guess the first thing that I would strongly recommend and advise is that you keep your 11 year-old daughter away from this man - hands down-no exceptions starting tonight!
He may mean no harm, but really, in effect, he has already caused some harm by his actions.
As a mother knowing what you do, it is now your responsibility to keep your daughter safe, bar none and non-negotiable - period!
There is no if ands or buts about this right now worriedwife, - you MUST now keep your daughter safe BY ANY MEANS. (Even it means that you have to pack up your bags right now TONIGHT and move in with a relative or friend or whatever for right now....I can not stress this enough.)
He really needs professional help to help him sort thru all of this mess.
In one way, it is sort of good that he was able to clue you in to what all was going down so that you could take that info as a clear indication that you must now act on behalf of your daughter and keep her safe no matter what!
On the other hand, man oh man has he got some serious issues to work through by himself.
worriedwife, this is bullet hitting the bone time. You HAVE to act on behalf of your daughter right now and get him away from this very confused man.
It's your responsibility as a mother....it truly is.
Otherwise....if you don't? IF you don't? You can just 100% well expect to just throw a young woman out into the savage world when she reaches a legal age and all she can ever expect to think of herself is as of just a sex object. A thing. An object. Nothing more.
Believe me - I KNOW what I am talking about here! My mom didn't protect me when she could have/should have and I ended up thinking this way about myself. I am 49 years old and still to this day struggle with trying to NOT think of myself as a sex object because in large part, my mom knew what was going on and didn't protect me as she should have!
Not protecting your daughter has MAJOR long-term and I do mean long-term (perhaps even life-long) permanant consequences!
Don't mean to beat you up or anything....it is just your duty as a mother to protect your 11 year-old daughter right now - knowing what you already know!!!!
There just simply is no other alternative, worriedwife!
September 29, 2010
Thank you so much truthBtold for taking the time to give such a in depth reply...you have given me even more to think about... I also plan to see a therapist to discuss these issues...my husband has been seeing a child sexual abuse councelor for 2 years now on and off...at my insistance and to my husband's relief, the councellor has provided great insight for my husband in the past regarding the horrible abuse he endured as a child... I plan to speak with the councellor myself this Friday, after my husband's app't with him tomorrow!...I'm desparate to learn if my husband, even after councelling, will always be a threat to my daughter!..my husband and I were best friends for years while I was married to my daughter's father before we became a couple, I've always known about his abusive childhood altho I didn't know how it affected him as an adult until years after we moved in together...he was always afraid that if I knew the truth about him (regarding his bisexual confusion, altho he hasn't been with a man in over 15 yrs) I wouldn't be able to stay with him...it took months and lots of thereapy...but we got thru it...and we've been very happy...but this situation involving my daughter is hugely different!!! a 100 times more upsetting...when I talked to her about whether my husband has ever done anything to make her uncomfortable she said no never, but she did tell me about a conversation he had with her about sex (as I mentioned in my first thread)... I immediately sent my daughter to a friend's house and spoke with my husband about what I learned...we were both hysterical and in pain during that conversation, he said he knows having that conversation about sex with my daughter was hugely wrong and he has since apologized to her telling her he should never have discussed that kind of thing with her ever and never will again... during my conversation with him, when I told him I know that he was looked at inappropriate preteen sites, he swore he found those preteen websites by accident a week ago, while looking online for information about teen modeling...I believe this as we've discussed it with one of his co-workers whose daughter is a 11 year old clothing model for print ads and it's something my daughter also wanted...anyway, he said that the site showing young girls in underwear (not nude) came up during that modeling search...had he simply told me about it...and closed the inappropriate page...that would have been a non issue...but I saw from the web history that he'd looked at at several pages and sites after first stumbling onto that first site...that completely freaked me out, a normal man disguested with what he saw would never go to another site to look at more!!! After I saw the web history, I had to talk to my daughter to find out if anything had EVER occurred with her...she said absolutely not...but I'm sooooo very worried that...down the road...once some time has passed and if my husband thinks I'm over this and trust him again, that one day, he'd do something inappropriate with my daughter...and I told him of this fear...he swore he talked to my daughter because it was simply his need to know if other children were sexually aware at a young age like he was at 9 years old...he's always known he's "not normal" in his thinking as a result of his childhood abuse and has struggled his entire teen and adult life to be normal in everyway...fighting his thoughts and memories in a quest to put his childhood abuse behind him...before counceling, he was a very angry person....had a huge fear of abandonment (his dad left him at a foster home saying he'd be back in 6 months and never came back ever)...I am the only woman he has ever been able to truly love and trust with the truth about his past...he is no longer an angry person and with councelling, he has learned to identify his feelings of fear, shame, guilt and pain over his past and deal with them without every emotion coming out as anger, which I understand is quite common in those that have been abused (according to the councelor)...I've always stood by my husband in his recovery, knowing that his issues are not his fault but those of his abusers so many years ago...but now that my daughter's safety is in question, my wanting to "stand by him" is no longer my first priority, my daughter's mental, and physical safety are!!!!! My husband has agreed to move out if that's what it takes to make me feel my daughter is safe...and if the counselor tells me tomorrow or Friday that my husband is a real threat, regardless of how he swears he is not, I will definitely make him leave our home! This will break my daughter's heart she tells me as she loves her stepdad very much, he's been her dad for more than 6 years!...she has no idea tho about his past childhood abuse details at all of course...other than that he grew up in a abusive foster home, she's never been given any details at all...when she and I first talked about this a couple of days ago, I told her that her safety comes first and that I may end my relationship with her stepdad and she was devastated at that thought and cried that she didn't want that to happen!...I'm so confused!...I have been unable to even talk to my husband since learning about all this last Sunday...all I do is cry and worry that our happy life is over! I'm worried about over-reacting but even more worried about under-reacting!!!! I'm a very strong, intelligent, confident woman, but this is killing me! I can't thinnk of anything else right now...I'm even thinking of having my husband volunteer for a sexual arousal test...I've heard there are machine with probes that are hooked up to a man's penis and other vital body spots that when various forms of photos/pornography are viewed, it can be detected what in fact is arousing to them!...I need to know if what my husband says is true, whether or not he is aroused by the sight of young girls in underwear, he denies it vehemently but I think I will always have doubt unless a test like this is performed... I'm turning into a basketcase over this I think!!!...my daughter this morning again reiterated that she would be devastated if I "over-reacted" and left her stepdad who she loves, over this! but she doesn't know about my husband's viewing of those websites! My 18 year old son is living away from home getting ready to start university and would be absolutely devastated as well to see our family broken apart, he's always said my husband is his favourite person!! They have an awesome relationship! I love my husband very much but... until I have trust that he is not a potential child molestor in any way...and that my daughter is not at risk...I think I have no choice but to have him move out! I will NEVER let anyone hurt my baby, that conversation he had with her was bad enuf to me to warrent a divorce! I'm a mess over this!
September 30, 2010
The conversation your husband had with your daughter has ALREADY damaged her. The words spoken to her have shattered her innocence.
He is lying about those internet sites. This is something you know.
You do not need to hear from a therapist's mouth (or subject him to an "porn arousal" test) that he is a potential child molester. He is. It's that simple.
If you do not IMMEDIATELY get your daughter away from him, you are failing to protect her from further damage. And there will be more.
There is a strong possibility that his perversion will catch up with him legally in the future. . Do you want to be around when that happens?
I am quite sure your son and daughter love him a great deal. Most children who are sexually abused deeply love and trust the parents/step-parents/aunts/uncles/big brothers, etc. who destroy their lives.
This is the hour when you == as the adult == must step up to the plate and make the decisions which are in your daughter's best interests. And your number one priority is to get her safely out of his influence and reach. Forever.
I know this is not what you want to hear. You desperately want hope that there is some way to keep him in your life without risk to your daughter. But this is impossible. She will always be at risk, as you know.
This means you face leaving the man you love. You may have unintentionally built your life around "fixing" him. Most women would not take on an emotionally damaged and unhealthy man, such as your husband. Those of us who are "codies" would, however. We LIVE to be needed, to "fix" men who are a mess and to be the one and only woman who can love, save and rescue them. That's what codependency is all about.
I would strongly recommend that you (1)get him out of your house, immediately; (2) discontinue any/all contact between him and your daughter; and (3) get yourself into private counseling to learn WHY you were attracted to such a damaged man, instead of an emotionally healthier relationship.
- Ma Strong
September 30, 2010
September 30, 2010
protect your daughter and yourself it be best thing you could ever do in long run, believe me, being abused and the hurt it never leaves you, please protect your daughter and yourself x i wish my mom would of done this for me, protected me against the odds of her own life,
you will know in your heart what to do just follow your heart and what its telling you, i wouldnt think you woukd have feelings thoughts about you daugthers saftey unless there was a reason,
take care x x x
September 29, 2010
Thank you StronginHim77
You are right...I did not want to hear that there is no hope to keep my husband in my life while at the same time, be sure that my daughter is safe!!! My every instinct is on red alert!...and I know I've got to tell him to leave!! I've been a stay at home mom for most of our years together, but you've helped me decide to not ignore my inner alarms by telling myself I am overreacting and I am going to get back out into the workforce so I can support my daughter on my own...My husband needs lots and lots of help...but it can't be from me and I can't risk my daughter by being around him anymore...my heart is absolutely breaking...but of course I'd rather be alone and divorced then live in fear for my daughter! Thank you...you said what I needed to hear. I was kidding myself to believe I needed to hear from a professional that my husband wasn't a real threat...I know in my heart and my gut now that he is. This is just hard to digest, it's only been 3 days since I learned about those websites and his conversation with my daughter. It's like we're talking about a stranger to me. His past issues with being abused have always made me feel compassion for him as a victim...but I don't have compassion for him as an abuser no matter what the cause, childhood abuse or not!
I don't have anyone I can talk to about this...sending him away will upset alot of people and I know I will not be able to tell them the whole truth as to why I've ended our life together... I don't want to ruin the rest of his life by labeling him as a potential abuser to our family and friends...am I wrong to think that way...I'm afraid I'm so upset that I'm not thinking clearly...I've never thought of myself as a "codie"...all my past relationships have been with strong, capable, healthy successful men, he is the first person I've ever known that had "issues"!
I've got to talk to someone else...I don't know who...I guess I need to get counceling for myself and maybe even my daughter and I will protect my daughter no matter what!
September 29, 2010
Thank you Blueblue...I never want to have to say..."I should have protected my daughter better"...I know I have to get him away from her now...it's breaking my heart but I'm not sure I'll ever be able to think of him the same way again anyway...he's not just a victim to me anymore...he's the victimizer or at the very least, the potential victimizer
September 30, 2010
worrydwife hang on in there, your there for your daughter and in the long run you will both be better and happpyer keep strong. just do what your heart is telling you x
worrydwife you sound like a good mom, you doing great at protecting your daughter, im sure your daughter will understand in the long run,
i was abused physically sexually from my dad for years yea its hard real hard to get over if you ever do, me im dealing with it as i have to, but worrydwife i wouldnt never hurt or want to or think of hurting anyone else the way i have been,
i think once you lost the trust in your relionship you need to question why and thats wht you doing and doing well, you can see some thing is wrong and you stepping in before it to late, your doing the right thing,
worrydwife you do what you feel and believe you need to do, dont worry about others and what they will think or say yea it be hard, but long as you know the truth that is all that matters, just tell people what you think you should, you dont have to tell anyone. just be truthful to yourself and your daughter
take care x
September 29, 2010
Thanks blue!...I just spoke to my best friend..she'll support me along the way, keep me standing while I do what I need to do to protect my daughter...I've also emailed my husband's abuse councelor and told him what I learned recently, just in case my husband doesn't tell him everything in their meeting tomorrow...I'm going to make him leave our home right away...it'll get harder before it gets better for sure...but I'm strong...and as long as I focus on my daughter, I'll get thru it all! Thanks again...and my heart goes out to you and what you've been thru...you're strength in surviving abuse is admirable!!!
Take care Blue
September 24, 2010
If you have to ask all of these questions about his intent, character, and potential to molest your child, he needs to go.
Like others here, I was molested as a child and believe that some folks move from that situation and become abusers themselves while others get help and instinctively know the difference in right and wrong. Why would he ever think it was right to have a conversation with your young daughter about sex? I know for a FACT that is how molestors introduce the topic to children in such a way that they can later explain it to authorities and adults. ie.(I was trying to protect her by teaching her, etc.) In reality the next step would be that he would want to "teach" her to masterbate, or let her watch him do it.
It is sad that some people become abusers after being victims. They talk about how they were "raped" as children, when in fact, they usually participating willingly to gain acceptance and love. I suppose saying one was raped makes it easier to talk about.
Do yourself a favor, go see the movie, "PRECIOUS". This is a movie about a Mother who allowed her daughter to be molested to be able to keep the husband. It started as something she didn't want to believe or accept and then she later became jealous because the man wanted the child and not her. If you can sit through it and watch Monique, who plays the mother, explain to the Social Worker how and why it all happened.
I think there are times in life when things are just too messed up and we just have to walk away, pick up the pieces, and start again. I am sure that you feel for your husband and he probably isn't a bad guy, but he isn't to be trusted with your child. I believe it was TRUTH who mentioned this in an earlier post, but one of the hardest thing for me to deal with today is that my Mother didn't protect me and my sisters, and that she is still loyal, loving, and protective to my older brother who molested all of us repeatedly and has never sought forgiveness. Once he introduced sex to us, me at 4 or 5; we all became prey for other preditors in the public housing area where we grew up. My Mother was so concerned about what folks at church would think that she "hushed" my sister when she told my Mother and told my brother that he better not be doing anything to us.
I would walk away.
September 30, 2010
September 29, 2010
Thank you Cary for your words...it's all so very overwhelming...it's all I've thought about every minute of everyday since I learned about this 4 days ago...I've received a reply from my husband's abuse councelor and will be making an app't with him for the both of us after my husband's app't with him tonight... everything will be out in the open as it needs to be...I agree with what you've said, well most of it, I definitely believe had I continued to be in the dark, his conversation with my daughter might not have been the end of it...I even asked my daughter if he had ever exposed himself or asked her to expose herself to him in anyway, she said definitely not...my daughter is very clear on what is acceptable boundaries between her and adults and she said she ended any chance of further talks with my husband after the last one a month ago by telling him, it made her very uncomfortable and she didn't ever want to talk about it again...she said he promised he'd never bring it up again and any further information would come from me... but even knowing that does not make me feel okay of course with it...that conversation should NEVER have taken place at all!!! and I can never feel comfortable with him around my daughter again...even if a councelor tells me he isn't a threat, how can I ever believe that! of all the effects of his childhood abuse, nothing has ever come up about children sexually, I don't believe this has been an ongoing thing with him...or will continue to be...but for the sake of my daughter and in consideration of no one ever knowing what "could one day happen"...I'll not take the chance that I'm wrong...he'll never get the chance...I know it's over for us...I can never live a life with a man wondering for months or years down the road, what he's thinking or worrying what he's saying or could be doing with or to my daughter...can't live that way no matter how much I love him...won't live that way.
My husband spent his childhood being abused, physically, sexually and emotionally from the age of 8, physically and emotionally abused in a home with his stepmother and father until 8 yrs old and then dropped off at a foster home and was abused physically and sexually by the older brothers of the home...along with 8 other little 9 year old boys...he was NOT a willing participant to gain love or acceptance, he eventually stopped fighting and telling authorities and adults when no one would believe him...and years later as an early teen, learned to stop fighting cause it only caused huge beatings for him and the other little boys...he didn't just cry rape...
You are right when you say he may not be a 'bad' guy...he truly isn't...he's the father of two children of his own, 19 yr old daughter and a 21 year old son, who adore him and were treated wonderfully by him their entire lives...and he's been wonderful with my own children and there has NEVER been a doubt or suspicion in my mind about him ever hurting children...or a reason to be suspicious before now! He told me he knew at the time he talked to my daughter how wrong it was and regretted it immensely and told my daughter how sorry he was and that he was wrong and that it would never happen again...but...the fact that it did happen I can not ignore...not ever!...He has ruined things forever...I can never trust him again, I know this even if I wanted to trust him...it'd be impossible!
I've spend years with this man believing in him and trusting him and never having a reason to doubt him until now...and knowing his past abuse...I've been watching all the time...it's what makes this so very very hard to accept...but hard or not...I'm gunna do what's best for my daughter and for me...he has always been a wonderful, loving and caring husband and father for our entire relationship...I've had abusers and abuse in my family too...my sisters were both molested by an uncle while visiting my father and I have cousins who were molested and raped as well by family...and I was appauled when I learned the moms didn't do anything about it...even my own mother didn't have the uncle charged after he hurt my sisters, who both to this day live with the afteraffects of their abuse...and my father never believed that his brother ever did what my sisters said he did... he ignored the fact as if nothing had happened...I won't be like that not ever...my husband knows all about this stuff and has always supported and agreed with my views that these abusing men are sick pigs and deserve to be in prison for life...he claims he is not a monster and would never hurt a child or anyone for that matter, esp after what he's been thru as a child...but I don't believe after what's he's been thru and the effects of his abuse on him as an adult, that he can ever really know what he is capable of...can anyone know??? I don't think so...I can't let myself take the risk...
I appreciate all you've said to me and will continue to re read all the posts to me...it gives me strength and resolve to do what i have to do, thank you!
September 24, 2010
September 29, 2010
Thank you Cary for saying that! Very much appreciated!...there are moments in every day this week that I've felt weak...that I've tried to tell myself that his behaviour is understandable because of all he's gone thru...that I may be over-reacting...that I need to just wait until I get information from a professional...I've even reminded myself that in the past I have sometimes over-reacted to situations and later regretted it...but I keep coming back to a flash in my head, of my daughter one day in the future, at 12, 13 or 14 yrs, after it's too late and with tears streaming down her beautiful little face, saying "mom...why did you stay when you had doubts that I was safe with him?"... and my heart absolutely breaks and I cannot let that day ever happen!!! I'd spent my life in jail from having killed the man who hurt my sweet baby girl but I'd always have myself to blame as well, cause at this point today...I know better!!
I know I'm probably typing and rambling more than necessary, but for some reason, talking more about it...even to myself...helps me be strong...and continue to keep focused on what's best for my daughter...and not let her love of her stepdad..or my own love for him...interfere or influence my decisions...I have to end our life together even tho I so don't want to...we've all been so very happy together...it's another thing that makes this all so hard to comprehend and accept..but I must and I will...I've always been a strong capable person and sometimes too independent for my own good or usually too indepentent for the man in my life to handle... I've got to stay focused...and it's hard for sure!
One person above mentioned that she thought I may be codependent...I wanted to know more about that so I've just read online the 12 promises and the 12 steps as well as the Characterists of a Codependent...I can honestly say...I fit none of the patterns, well maybe the one where it says you are sensitive to how others are feeling...but I don't feel the same, so there is a difference. I have no intention of lettings my husbands issues take over the need for me to put my daughters best interests and my own above his!...if this makes me selfish and heartless, and sound unloving...I can't help that...and I'm sure my husband's response when I tell him to leave in the next day or so, will be full of disbelief and maybe even some anger at me for "not believing in him" but I can't back down for my daughter's sake...I want her to be proud that I'm her mom...and like you said above, gain huge self-esteem (altho it's obvious to us that she thinks she's pretty terrific and deserves and takes no crap from anyone! lol) and she's right she is terrific and I plan to keep her that way!!!
Thank you so much for listening...and taking the time to respond!...Muah!
September 30, 2010
You are one magnificent mother...willing to lay down what YOU want for the good and the protection of your daughter. I only wish there were more Mom's like you in this world.
Be strong. You are NOT being selfish, cruel or unloving. Sometimes, true love forces us to make tough choices.
We are all rooting for you. Keep venting. It does help to talk about it, so keep using this thread as your sounding board. You will have strong days and weak days. We will be here for you through them all.
- Ma Strong
September 27, 2010
You wrote and said about yourself: "I've always been a strong capable person"
You certaintly are! Hands down!!
I suspect that this is quite evident to not only myself, but others as well, as some have already attested to.
I just can not even begin to imagine the roller-coaster ride you have found yourself on, but from your posts, you really seem to have a real good grip on the situation, all things considered....and in such an incredibly short period of time!
If I might say....your obvious strength and capabilty shines out like a huge, deep, wide ray of sunshine emminating from a very dark cloud.
I am so gald that you came to this site!!!
You said that your daughter pretty much takes no crap from anyone....(I think that that apple doesn't fall far from mother's tree - you know?)
You are already so far ahead of the game, I think by already anticipating and EXPECTING resistance from your husband....and I am pretty certain that you will.
But you have a real strong sense of resolve about you and it is my hope that you continue to post here for more ongoing support and encouragement!
You know, I have been thinking about something that you wrote in an earlier post and I did not want to respond immediately about it.
But it had to do with your natural concern about:
"Sending him away will upset alot of people and I know I will not be able to tell them the whole truth as to why I've ended our life together... I don't want to ruin the rest of his life by labeling him as a potential abuser to our family and friends...am I wrong to think that way..."
This is just naturally a valid concern for you. But the thing that I would hope you could realize and remember and process is that this is PRECISELY and EXACTLY what keeps these horrific acts lurking in the shadows and in many ways, allows the abuse to continue GENERATION AFTER GENERATION is JUST BECAUSE of this.
Shying away from not wanting to be completely open and honest and upfront about what this actually is.
Secrets. It is ALL ABOUT harboring the secrets.
See - That's what MANY/MOSTLY/ALL? of these abusers COUNT ON!!!! They COUNT ON THIS!!! They really do! But you know, it doesn't have to be that way at all.
To your point about explaining WHY the relationship has come to an end to others, well - it's completely up to you.
You can single out a select few in which you trust and let them know the real story...and/or you can just be upfront with everyone and just call like it is all the way around.
See, by verbalizing and explaining what it really is to others - you could well set an example for others.
By this I mean that is is so sad that this whole crap is pretty much in epidemic, yet secret and covert proportions and sadly effects more folks than we would like to think it does.
So, you know, it is up to you to use your discretion in how much or how little YOU CHOOSE to expose about your private matters.
Bottom Line is that we are really only as sick as our secrets.
I'll repeat that: WE ARE ONLY AS SICK AS OUR SECRETS!
Be it this wild, secret family epidemic of children being abused every single day and night in all corners of this country and/or just another dirty little secret about the rampant numbers of homelessness and folks that go hungry each and every day in what would be, "on the surface", considered to be a rather 'civilized' non-third world society.
Worriedwife, you have my upmost regard and admiration in just all that you have been through and am processing in just a mere 3 days!
A mere 3 days!
Many Kudus to you and sending positive energy your way directly!!!!
You are already on the right track here. Just keep trusting your gut like you have been....it'll never, NEVER, EVER steer you wrong!
(Apologies for length.)
September 29, 2010
Thank you so much tBt, Ma Strong, Cary and Blue, you 4 have been a huge help to me...I have reread and reread all your posts and appreciate everything you've said to me!
I'd like to respond to Ma Strong regarding the statement I made earlier regarding my hesitation to tell our family and friends the entire truth about what I'm dealing with these days!...I want to clarify...my hesitation ONLY comes from the fact that my daughter has assured me that other than that hugely inappropriate conversation between her and her stepdad, nothing has ever occurred to her or around her to cause her any discomfort or alarm...had he EVER done a single thing to her other than a conversation, ie, touch her, expose himself, anything of that sort....I would have shouted it from the rooftops while I was beating the crap out of him until the police arrived and dragged me off him before I killed him!!!! I would never EVER keep it a secret...his reputation and future would be the least of my concern then! Having said that tho, even in this situation, there are definitely people very close to me that will need to know the whole truth!
Last night, my husband had a long session with his councelor... I was on pins and needles once I heard his key in the lock when he got home...I silently waited for him to begin talking...
I'm relating this conversation I had with him in hopes of getting your opinions...I'm far from sure that at this point, anything he said lastnight will make any real difference to me and what I've already decided to do...but I needed to listen anyway as openly as I can and I hope you 4 do too...
My husband told me that for the first 20 min or so of his session, he talked about what's been going on in our lives recently, as I never told him that I had previously emailed his counselor myself explaining everything to him, I didn't want to interrupt him in order to see if he'd been completely forthright and honest with the councelor, from what he told me he said to the counselor, he seemed to have covered everything in detail leaving nothing out...after the first
20 min or so into the conversation with the counselor, (for ease of typing, I'll now refer to the councelor as "D") D interrupted him to tell him...that he had been mimicing everything he'd had read in an email that I had written to him (D) a couple of days ago and that D was happy that my husband seemed to not have left anything out or tried to tell halftruths...it was a bit of a relief to me to know that my husband was honest with the councelor, I worried of course all week, that he'd only give him half truths...
D offered to let my husband read my email so that everything would be out in the open if he wanted to read it, meaning all my fears, worries, doubts, etc, but my husband (H) told him he didn't need to read it as I've already told him exactly how I feel about this, and from what my H told the counselor, D said it appeared H was aware of everything I had said in that email already...no surprises...
For obvious reasons, I was glad to know that my H wasn't lying to D or trying to keep anthing I have said or know of from D...
I listened to my husband and decided to stay silent until he was finished telling me himself all about the session with D... first off he told me that he totally understands my feelings of worry and fear and disgust etc....and that he will completely understand if I don't believe or accept everything he is going tell me...but he said altho, he knows in his core that he has never been and never will be attracted to children in any way whatsoever, he still felt relief to hear D tell him, that in the 2 years he has councelled him, the he (D) has never felt children were ever an issue for my H as a result of his own childhood abuse...and that it is almost unheard of that an attraction for children would just start up in a man at my husband's age, and that the urge for children is something that starts at a very young age and increases as the person grows into adulthood D said...and that D does not believe or fear that my husband is a child predator now or ever has been or ever will be...that this has never been an issue for my H... I wanted so badly to interject here but I waited...my husband went on to say that D told him that it is completely reasonable that I may not believe this given what has in fact taken place, ie his conversation with my daughter, or the viewing of those websites...I still didn't interupt H altho again, I wanted to!
He kept telling me about the session...and I just listened, then he began to explain in more detail about the 3 conversations he had with my daughter (since Sunday, I've asked my daughter about each of the conversations and how they went so I already knew the truth as I listened to my husband) and it seems what he was telling me was the same that she told me...anyway, first conversation occured because my husband saw pictures of my daughter on my son's computer where she was holding up lined paper with swear words and rude words on them ie asshole, cocksucker... he went on to say that first conversation was nothing more than finding out if anything had happened to my daughter or made her uncomfortable or if my son had been doing wrong with her other than the taking of those dumb pics with her holding up rude shit...(my daughter had told me that was all there was to that conversation too) My husband further had a discussion with my son on the inappropriatness of my son's actions in taking those pics or involving his sister in any of his dumb teenage attempts at being funny...it was out of line and my son knows it and promised never to do anything of the sort again...
The second conversation my H had with my daughter he said happened when he picked her up from the local swimming pool 5 min from our house...he said it was during the time period when she was wanting to be friends with a 13 year old boy from her school... (I had previously told my daughter that he was too old for her to be friends with him, she was only 10 and he 13 at that time)... anyway, there was this 13 year old boy that wanted to be her friend, go to movies, swimming etc or simply hang out...I had told my daughter way back that under no circumstances could she be friends and hang out with a 13 year old boy...she understood altho she really wanted to be his friend...she told this boy that she wasn't allowed to hang with him...I also remember her telling me about an incident a little while ago at the pool when this 13 year old boy showed up there and without my daughter's consent, kissed her... as it turns out...on the ride home from the pool that day with my husband, my daughter told my H about the boy kissing that day (before she had even told me), this boy at the swimming pool, altho he already knew my daughter was not allowed to be his friend...kissed her without her expecting it or agreeing to it, she told my husband (and me later) that she pushed this boy away and told him to leave her alone!!! and that he was gross and she stormed away (and since has never spoken to him again)...anyway, that day in the car when my husband picked her up at the pool, my daughter also had a girlfriend in the car also getting a ride home from my husband when my daughter told my husband that this boy had kissed her, that's when my H had the second conversation with her about sex and the dangers of hanging with a boy much older than she is...my husband told me that it wasn't a sexual conversation but more of a fact finding mission on what the boy had done and what she thought of what he did ie the kiss...she had told H exactly what she later told me...that she had gotten mad at this boy and told him to leave her alone...she told my husband that she didn't want to kiss boys or anything else yet....my husband told me he again told her, as we both did together before, that this is why we didn't want her friends with or hanging out with a boy 3 years older than she was, was because he is at a stage more advanced than she is and is into kissing girls already and who knows what else! My husband said he never told her not to tell me about either of those first two conversations, but for some reason, my daughter only told me, much much later about the kiss with this boy but she didn't mention that my H had talked to her about it warning her off this boy again during the 5 minutes drive home from the pool.
My husband then went on to tell me about the 3rd and last conversation he had with my daughter about sex, but before he went on to tell me more, he wanted to remind me of something he saw one evening not too long ago (and told me about)...of course my stomach lurched...he said one evening he was heading upstairs for whatever reason...and my daughter was in her bedroom with the door wide open transfixed on the tv (as she usually is), lying on her bed,.. he walked past her room heading to our bedroom and noticed that she must not have heard him come up the stairs he said because he saw that she had a hand down her pants, he said he quickly walked passed her room into our bedroom and began making a lot of noise so she'd know he was upstairs,...and on his way downstairs he shut her bedroom door...(I remember this myself...that he mentioned to me what he saw when he came back downstairs), he said it surprised him that she, at her young age, was doing that... no red flags went up last night after hearing that...as masterbation of somekind...is normal in girls even those my daughter's age...anyway...I wanted to listen to him and not change the direction of the conversation in anyway so I let him continue on ...he told me that incident is what made him discuss sex with her the 3rd time, he said he did not start the 3rd conversation with her that she in fact started that conversation...but that he knows now and knew at the time, that he shouldn't be the one having that conversation and that it should have been with me...but he said his curiosity kept him from not having the conversation...anyway, he said he knows the conversation got carried away...and that he answered some of her questions way too fully for someone her age...that he never should have answered her questions or corrected her in anyway by explaining what masterbation is at all(I've also spoken to her at least a year ago about sex as every mother should and she has told me what she knew about sex etc and her knowledge at her age surprised me)....so far, last night everything my husband was telling me had the ring of truth to it especially knowing that she had already told me about that conversation in detail...so I was waiting to hear if he would tell it to me exactly as she had....turns out he did...he told me that altho she said she knew what masterbation and sex was (she had an incident with one of her girlfriends 2 years ago, that she never told me about but told my sister and my sister told me, normal "show me yours and I'll show you mine" thing)she didn't know what an orgasm was, he told me that he told her what is was and that he knows he shouldn't have...he said he told her that it was a good feeling that happens to you when you masterbate...altho that mortified me to hear or imagine him telling her this...it did confirm what she had said to me about that conversation when we talked about it a few days ago...my husband said last night that altho he knows that the conversation went way too far into detail, he swore that the conversation was never at any point for his sexual gratification or anything of the sort, it was a conversation they had at the dinner table eating tacos and that my daughter brought it up when she first asked about a new boy at school that liked her...he said he told her to keep the conversation between them that time...saying he thought mom would be upset that he was the one that had the talk with her...
I spoke with my daughter again this morning to ask her about that myself ...she told me that when the third conversation came about...that it only lasted 5 minutes maybe less...and that she brought it up during dinner and that altho it made her uncomfortable, it was because they were talking about sex but not because my husband was worrying her or anything...and she said when she told him she didn't want to talk about it anymore, he stopped immediately and told her he would never talk to her about it again if it made her uncomfortable and she told him it did..and she said he told her sorry, and that any further questions to her or answers to her questions would come from mom
He never explained in detail to me about that conversation with my daughter when I first talked to him about it last Sunday, I didn't really give him a chance I was so upset, nor did my daughter speak in detail when I asked her about it first! in fact, I was so freaked out that I didn't ask her for the details about the conversations until this morning... I should have asked her sooner...
She told me this morning, that she isn't worried about her stepdad and that she never has been worried about him...that she loves him and trusts him...she said she would tell me if she didn't trust him or was worried...and that if ever he ever makes her uncomfortable that she'd tell me right away...but she said she doesn't think he'd ever talk to her about stuff like that again after she told him she didn't want to talk about it ever again and because he apologized to her immediately she said and said he loved her and didn't ever want her to be uncomfortable...
It could be a child's innocence etc talking or automatic trust talking I don't know...
I'm still very confused, I think I still need to think, think and think again to process everything I've heard from my husband, the counselor and my daughter.
Last night my husband told me that he didn't keep that conversation with my daughter a secret for any deviant sexual reason but that he didn't want me upset much like why he didn't tell me about the pics he saw on my son's computer of my daughter holding up the rude paper drawings...even tho I still felt like choking him,....I simply listened again and didn't comment yet...he then went on to talk about the sites he looked at again and what he told the councelor about it...that the first time he saw a site like that and he reiterated it again very vehemently last night, that it was an absolute accident, that he did NOT go looking for or expected to see the site that he did see the first time....I do know that 2 weeks ago, he mentioned to me that a guy at work, has a 10 or 11 year old daughter that is a model in clothing print ads....he had asked me at that time...if I wanted him to get any information from the guy about how I can get my daughter into it as well, as she has often talked about wanting to be a model like those on America's Next Top Model....anyway, back then I told him yes, get the info from the guy about it and we'll look into it, he said that guy told him to check online for modeling but to make sure that he said no nudes in the search line or he'd get porn...anyway, from what I saw on the search history, that's what he typed in... teenmodels, no nudes...he said he was shocked to see the site that popped up...and didn't expect it, he thought he would see sites on modeling, instead he saw a site saying teen models but the models were not simply modelling clothes...they were young girls in clothes...but sexy clothes and pajamas, bathingsuits etc...in provacative poses, he said like my reaction, his first reaction was shock and disgust at what kind of parent would let their kids or force their kids into this kind of thing
then he told me that when he saw the site, he noticed that all of the pics showed the young girls smiling or smirking even...and he said the looks on their faces, gave him a startle...he said they actually looked like they were enjoying themselves and he said he could hardly believe what he was seeing, he said those sites started him thinking (and he told the counselor D this last night)...started him thinking and wondering if it's possible that young girls could actually enjoy being photographed like that! that it made him wonder if all kids were as sexual as he was as a kid even if they weren't abused, made him wonder if it were normal to be sexual at a young age even if you weren't abused, he said it was sick facination seeing the girls' expressions that made him look at more and NOT sexual attraction that made him look, he swore to me and to D he said that it was not an attraction at any point...sick facination like one would have when seeing an accident on the highway with dismembered people, hating the sight, but looking anyway something like that, he said he knew those sites were disgusting and he felt very sorry for those young girls in the photos but he was also puzzled and shocked that they somehow managed to have an an adult woman's expression of sexuality on their faces...he said it sort of freaked him out, he said he looked at the site 3 times and never for sexual reasons...and he told me that he looked at those sites even one time when I was in the room altho he didn't show me...he said at no time did it arouse him and that he isn't or hasn"t ever or will ever be aroused by children!
I've heard him bullshit me before and I've heard him tell me the truth before...and I have to say that the hairs on the back of my neck laid to rest...and somewhere inside me I believed him...I may never ever be able to forgive him and certainly not forget anything...but I may understand what motivated this and it might not be as sinister as I first imagined when I heard it all briefly the first time...Altho I'm not sure in the slightest if I can ever look at him the same way....I am actually thinking tho that as far as worrying that he's gunna possibly one day molest my daughter, I can say I honestly don't think so....as I've said, I've never had reason to be suspicious before now and it's one reason this has been such a shock and freak out for me...cause it was all out of left field to me!
For now...I'm gunna sit on this information for a bit, mull it over and over, speak further to his counselor, have a meeting with him and the counselor together and see how I feel about it all then...until that time...I'm gunna put off making life altering decisons for now...altho I'm not saying that I can ever get over this, I may never get over this and may have to end this relationship very soon anyway regardless of his explanations... right now I don't know
I think tho that I am no longer freaked out with worry that if I don't get him out of the house this minute, that my daughter is in danger, she just this morning confirmed everything about those 3 conversations he had with her...and she said she did not have the impression that he was ever like "those bad men" that we've warned her about...and that the first convesations didn't make her uncomfortable at all that he never told her not to tell me about them...but she chose not to tell me because she thought I'd be angry about that 13 yr old kissing her or angry with her brother about those pictures... that she didn't think her stepdad did anythign wrong...and she told me that when the third conversation came about...that it only lasted 5 minutes maybe less...and that she brought it up during dinner and that altho it made her uncomfortable, it was because they were talking about sex but not because he was worrying her or anything...and she said when she told him she didn't want to talk about it anymore, he stopped immediately and told her he would never talk to her about it again if it made her uncomfortable and she told him it did..and she said he told her sorry, and that any further questions to her or answers to her questions would come from mom
I don't want to make any mistakes... or underreact any more than I don't want to overreact. I've always always followed my gut...I followed my gut all this week when I was freaking out...I want to follow my gut now too even after hearing all this now in full detail from both my husband and my daughter...and it makes me wonder, not sure tho, but makes me wonder if my fears are exaggerated...I'm still very confused...not sure exactly what to believe...but I have to say...I totally believe that my daughter is telling me the truth and her take on things is most important to me along with her feelings, her safety etc... But at the same time, I realize she is a child...and doesn't know everything I know...and never will...so ...
Here I sit, still in huge turmoil and confusion, thinking that nothing will make me feel better again...grateful that my husband was honest and still appauled at everything I heard...and so disguested at the secrecy... This all has changed me inside, deeply...I may never be the same again toward the man I married...I just don't know...my instincts tell me not to freak so much now over my daughter's safety but my disgust and repulsion makes me want to send my husband packing...When my decisions becomes clearer to me...maybe it will after I too speak with my husband and the councelor together...then I'll act...for the next few days, I'll live in limbo and think and think and think while my daughter is away this weekend visiting her father...
Thanks for listening!
September 24, 2010
That is a lot to process. You seem to have a good grasp on things and I have no doubt that you will do what is right for you and your daughter.
I keep thinking what I would do, or how I would feel if I was in your husband's shoes. I believe that I would be so offended, if I was totally innocent, that I would just walk away and say that I was too insulted to listen anymore.
I know that you must be emotionally drained and not resting well. I hope that you will take some time this weekend, while your daughter is away, and get some rest.
Thinking about you.
September 29, 2010
Oh Cary believe me, he was and is offended...and angry too, but he also knows that he's given me reason to doubt him...no matter what he says.....actions cannot be ignored!...and I also told him, if he doesn't want to hear what I have to say, there's the door, leave...but if he ever hopes or wants me to believe him...he needs to listen to me as much and for as long as it takes for me to believe him...he can take the consequences or not, his choice, but there are always consequences!!!...am I wrong???
September 30, 2010
September 30, 2010
September 24, 2010
September 29, 2010
Thanks ma strong and Cary... for posting...we had a good weekend...we talked and talked...on Friday, we met a big group of work friends at a local bar and we had a great time...I tried to put everything out of my mind for much needed "mental break"...things are def not back to normal of course but we weren't as quiet or distant with each other as of course we were last week...time passing will make things more clear I'm hoping...but he's very heartfelt in his apologies and his promises as well...and spends a great deal of time assuring me he is not a threat and that I'll never have another reason to doubt him ever again...and he's continuing to see his councelor often and we'll be meeting with him together in 2 weeks...so for now...we'll both just have to see how things go!
September 30, 2010
This is hard to say. But my stomach started twisting when I read your posting and a voice went off in my head (a very SAD voice). It said, "Oh no...she's trying to make it work, rather than have to face turning her life upside down to protect her daughter."
He is spinning his wheels overtime to get back into your good graces and persuade you to brush aside this incident. I can hear you rationalizing his behavior(s) like crazy. And it makes me feel so bad for you.
I can understand how badly you want this to work. And you strike me as a reasonable, intelligent woman who is also an excellent mother. But you have been "softened up" by your two days with him. He wants you to feel things are back to normal. Of course he does!!
Please do not let down your guard or your wonderful ability to assess this situation realistically. I am so concerned. This man is NOT normal. His words are NOT reliable because he is damaged goods. Please, please, please do not let this "slide."
- Ma Strong
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