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My Friend Says I'm A Fool
January 4, 2007
12:52 pm
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Juanita
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For a few years now, my husband has expressed interest in swinging. This has caused grief. I will not do it. Have been to counseling twice due to depression over this matter (and others). Each time he has promised to lay off the requests/teasing about doing this stuff.

Over the holidays, I discovered a swinging site he had posted a profile on. I snooped & found it. Also found out he had NOT sent any one any emails thru there, nor responded to any recent ones either. I confronted him on this & he (not knowing I knew his password) offered to show me his entire account. That he had just put a profile there to be able to see the ads as he found them interesting what people would say.

I told my husband this disrespected me & it hurt due to all our past difficulties over this. He said he wasn't asking me to join, & he was only reading interesting ads. Told him I had called an attorney & this was it. Couldn't take this any more. If he wanted a woman like that, I would set him free. He begged me not to, promised to vacate that site, get rid of any X magazines at home, and would go to counseling with me.

For the sake of our 2 kids, I agreed to try one last time. He has thrown out his magazines, and knows I know how to check out his computer usage.

My friend, whom I love dearly & respect very much, called me a fool. It hurt, but I accept her opinion.

I hope & pray I am not a fool, but I have to try one last time for the kids. He knows I have an attorney now & am serious. Hopefully, it will work this time.

January 4, 2007
12:57 pm
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mj
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I am sorry that your friend is judging you, when you need support and comfort. I see you as setting healthy boundaries for yourself and doing your best. Some people do change when they choose to. I hope that you work through this as well for your children and your love.

January 4, 2007
12:59 pm
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lettingo
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You are NOT a fool. Nobody can tell you what to do when it comes to matters of the heart. What you need right now is love and support. Try to just get advice from those people. Maybe someday down the road you will throw in the towel but maybe things will work out. Only time will tell. I suggest you go to maybe a group like Alanon so you can get help for yourself. Checking on him and his emails, magazines, etc., etc., becomes a sickness all it's own. I am not sure what you mean but I hope "it will work this time" but if you mean the threat of an attorney then you might be fooling yourself. He will only be able to change for real if that is what he wants to do. He can just pretent for a while until things cool down. I speak from having leaved with an Alcoholic/Addict who promised me the moon. It took me almost a year and half of crazyness to finally file for divorce him not to get him to see the light but because "I" had seen the light. Just because I got to that point it didn't make it any easier. I had friend tell me the same thing, what are you doing with him, just leave! Your friend is not in your shoes and will not have to live with you decision.

January 4, 2007
2:25 pm
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lovetocrochet
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I think the only way you'd be a fool is to blindly trust your husband without checking up on him. You aren't and are keeping an eagle eye on him, so, no you're not a fool.

I might also suggest marital counseling, if he won't go then go for yourself. I agree he is being very disrespectful and selfish.

Otherwise I think you're taking all the right steps. I understand not wanting to throw in the towel just yet, you have the right to wait and see if he's serious about respecting your wishes this time. Nobody else can judge that for you and I'm sorry your "friend" decided to label you for it.

January 4, 2007
2:39 pm
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TryingToLetGoAndMoveOn
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To judge someone else, is also to judge yourself as well. I'm sorry that your friend had chosen to judge you, instead of choosing to truly be there for you, and support you.

Take care.

Trying.

January 4, 2007
5:09 pm
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Juanita
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My friend does love me. It just hurt a bit to hear that. Maybe I am a fool as this has been going on for 3 yrs. At least (I think) I am growing a little stronger & wiser over time. Now I know to watch his computer use before allowing trust to start to re-grow again. He knows I am not as naive, and knows I have contacted an attorney. If this stuff of wanting to join swingers comes up again, he's been warned plenty, and knows exactly how I feel. I know the steps to take as I have investigated them. Next time, which I hope there is no 'next time', but if there is ~ I have a path laid out for me. It won't be easy, but I now know I can do it if I have to.

I also just found out my friend is very sick, so perhaps this is partly why she was a bit hard on me. I know she loves me & wants the best for me.

It has been a very stressful week, and I am sure the foreseeable future will be similar.

January 4, 2007
5:53 pm
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JobieWA
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Juanita -

Being in any kind of relationship, you always want to put your best foot forward and always try and not give up. But once your life is at risk or you are disrespected, how much is enough?

I don't mean to go against the grain and I do mean to be supportive but unfortunately past behavior predicts future behavior. You've been to counseling (which is awesome) about this issue and others.. What does your counselor say about this? Has your husband gone with you to the sessions? Your husband has asked you to participate in swinging in the past, and you've said no. "Each time he has promised to lay off the requests/teasing about doing this stuff". With that phrase, this has happened more than once and now he is becoming more obvious with his curiosity (the website). Yes, you said it was just a website and he was 'reading it for the interesting ads', but honestly 75% of the population does not read Playboy just for the articles. I could be wrong but it almost appears that he is going to do swinging with or without you.

Unfortunately I am familiar with this situation as I grew up with it. My dad has the curiosity and my mom throws empty threats, if any, and looks the other way to his behavior. I have shown my mom many times what my father is doing but she is still there even though it is far from being a positive environment. I am sure that presently my dad is having another affair and my mom isn't doing anything about it. The example that my parents have shown me for a relationship is far from anything I would want to experience. In fact I want the farthest thing from it. What example are you presenting for your children? Do they witness the teasing or see the websites? Would you want your own children in this situation? If it's not ok for your children, than why is it ok for you?

You got an attorney but then backed off. Why? I don't think you got an attorney based solely on this incident and it is important that you did go to get one, but you aren't using the attorney. I do sense the desperation in your writing that you want this to change and no one WANTS to be in a bad situation. But maybe your friend is trying to be as supportive as she can vs. doing the actions for you and kicking your husband to the curb. I'm not man-hating, but from growing up in a horrible home environment, I'd hate for you to be in the same situation with my mom where my dad lies to her on a daily basis about what he's doing and she accepts it and acts like nothing is going on. What actions are you taking in the relationship to make sure you are creating that 1 family unit and what actions is your husband taking? How many times do you have to check the computer or have that "eagle-eye" on your husband before he realizes it's not ok.

Just a few thoughts.. I hope it helps.

January 4, 2007
6:22 pm
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Shaney
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You're not a fool, as long as you feel that what you're doing, is right in your heart.

Your friend may have said that out of frustration, knowing what you've already been through with your husband. It doesn't make her comment hurt any less, I know. - I DO know that every time my mom's idiot boyfriend hurt her, it hurt me just as much. So feeling that her attempts at giving him chance after chance would inevitably end with chaos and hurt, I began to be a little tougher on her when it came to advice. The loving support I was giving her seemed to have gone by the wayside everytime she reconciled with him - so I resorted to a tougher love. When all was said and done, she always did what she wanted to do... she knew best, and ended up leaving him in her own time. Which is what I'm sure you will do when and if you are ready. I feel for you and all involved. Good luck, Juanita :o)

January 5, 2007
2:58 am
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Zinnie
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Working in Fraud Prevention for a very long time - many years for a credit card issuing bank, then for the IRS - here is a roadmap.

How to continue to get away with it:

1. Open another free e-mail account that you will not know about via "Hotmail" or "Yahoo" or any of the other web pages that offer e-mail servers

2. Use a computer elsewhere, not the one in your home

3. If continuing to use the home computer:

a. Learn to clear out the history each time every time - only a few flicks of a very few buttons

b. Go to any office supply store and get a flash drive, set the PC to search for the flash drive instead of the hard drive of the PC - cool tricks that lots of pedophiles have found out. By doing that - there is no history to be traced

4. Stash all XXX rated material elsewhere

I will have to agree with JobieWA - you got an attorney then backed off. He did it to you, AGAIN. The offer to go to counseling, the offer to change, the promise of all. Working on three, four years now? Longer?

Perhaps your friend was not being judgemental, as much as being sadly... honest, just a bad choice of words? Perhaps not a "fool" - but, maybe never wanting to see the man for what he really is.

Two things someone said to me come to mind?

1. The definition of crazy(making) is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result

and

2. A TRUE friend will always give you the truth - even when you have a really bad hair cut.

And, I can attest to having a friend of 40 years do just that for me - several times.

Z.

January 5, 2007
9:23 am
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Juanita
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I love my friend very much.

I am terribly afraid she may be right.

My stomach has not been right for days.

I cannot afford the house & kids alone.

He has already said he loves me, wants to try marriage counseling one last time, says I need more counseling (and I agree), AND that if I still desire separation after all that, he says he will not leave the house, but that as I am the unhappy party, I (alone) should be the one to go. This makes me think I'll be in for a messy fight if I decide separation is the only way to go.

My daughter is sick today, and I plan to look for a new counsellor today while she is napping after her dr appt.

I wish life's decisions were easier, they just are not.

January 5, 2007
9:35 am
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bevdee
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Juanita,

He says YOU need more counseling?? Very astute of him to see That. Does he mention if HE needs counseling? Or is this all YOUR problem?

"AND that if I still desire separation after all that, he says he will not leave the house"

I see this as an effort to intimidate you. I'm sure he knows your fears about supporting your children alone. It could be brought up to the courts the use of the pc (for "swinging") in the household where your children are being raised. "Adult" sites are pretty graphic, are they not?

Give me a break-

Please take everything he says and evaluate it carefully. He is on the defensive, because he is doing something AGAIN that he promised wasn't going to do. I hope this is a correct assessment of your situation.

Remember, he is on the defensive. He is scared.

January 5, 2007
10:06 am
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lovetocrochet
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Well, now my opinion is changing. I don't like that he's trying to say YOU need counseling when he's the one who thinks his swinging won't damage the marriage if he keeps forcing it on you.

I also don't like that he's saying he'll refuse to leave if you separate. My ex did that all the time - he'd say if you don't like it then leave, it's my house and my rules and I'll do what I want.

It'd be one thing if he was humble and remorseful. But it doesn't sound like that.

You might need counseling, sure, but just to sort out this whole mess and figure out what to do with him, not because there's anything wrong with you in the way he's implying. I mean holy moly any spouse who's being subjected to what you are would need counseling simply to cope, of course!

January 5, 2007
10:59 am
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mamacinnamon
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Juanita:

ALWAYS go by your gut feelings. not what the hubby or the counselor tell you, but by what your head and gut tell you; leave the heart out of this one.

I have to agree w/ the others. Having been on the receiving end of the stick and w/ talking to many other women whose hubby's frequented porn sites, cheated on them when that were the case, when the wife filed for divorce, I can tell you this...

They LIE. I am sorry but any man or woman who is about to have their world taken from them has the capability of and does lie.

They will try to make it your problem and not theirs. Anything to get you to let it go and "give it one more try". How many tries is this for you? Asking coz I don't know. They make you feel guilty for what they did. They make you the villian and them the victim. but wait, who did what here?

They will change and be as good as gold to you. Anyone can change for a short time; it's the long term that will show their true colors.

I use they/them so as to be talking in general and not specifically about your hubby and you. It is almost always the same w/ all cases. There are those that DO change and I am all for giving a second chance, but three, four, five??

You are the only one who can make your decision. Take what is written by those here and think on it. Don't make any decision to quickly or to harshly.

Yes, you have kids and yes it is hard to raise them on your own, but ya know what? I am the one that has sit here and said day after day, I cannot afford the house, I cannot afford this or that. My meds cost to much, etc. etc. I have been lookin round and I am finding out that I CAN afford these things and I cannot even work a job.

Listen to us here that have been where you are. I don't think any of us are against marriage, I'm not. I think marriage should be preserved if possible, but not at the expense of the spouse and the kids. Keep talking it out if it helps. We are all here for you.

January 6, 2007
9:46 am
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Notsure
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Hello Juanita,

Just a couple of isolated comments......

There is nothing wrong with swinging as long as both parties agree and have no jealousy issues. What SOMETIMES happens though is that the husband has difficulties with it afterwards even though he is the one who most often comes up with the idea of swinging or a three way. Occasionally too the wife takes a liking to it and the husband doesn't even though he was the one who pushed it in the first place and the wife takes control ...........so my advice to any husband is be careful what you wish for.

The wife of a friend of mine met her new partner in a three way that he initiated and left him for her.

I have no problem with looking at porn and would like to point out that men are usually more voyueristic when it comes to sex while women tend to be more emotive and equte sex and love. So don't consider his looking at porn (unless you are completely morally opposed) as a deviation. In my opinion it is the frequency and the subject matter that indicates if it is a problem for him (and the relationship).

His going on dating sites, being dishonest, looking at questionable content are entirely differnt issues.

I agree that going to a counsellor is usually a good idea (especuially if you are trying to save a marriage) and who knows "you needing some counselling" might be a true judgement on his part and,in fact, be in your best interests.

Where I see a potential red flag, however, is if he is trying to use counselling to influence you that his view of swinging or sexuality is right. A good counsellor won't be swayed by that. Swinging might be right for him but not for you and if that is what he wants and needs I think it perfectly reasonable (though painful for you) that he find such a like minded partner.

However, his expectation then that you leave the house is nonsense.

I would actually seek the counsel of a lawyer, as this situation evolves, and while everything is fresh in your mind. It would be worth the couple of hundred bucks to have someone understand your chain of events NOW in case there is a legal issue (pending separation) down the road.

Good luck. Notsure

January 6, 2007
9:38 pm
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Juanita
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My spouse has solved all my problems & issues. He has analyzed me & saved the cost of a counselor... He has informed me that I inherited my stubborness from my Dad, my ability to turn off emotion & hold a grudge from my Mom, that I wigged out after having our 2nd child & can't handle things as well... that I am a spring wound up too tight & can't release myself to have fun. I looked at him and thanked him for pointing out all these things wrong with me. That it is my parents' fault, my fault, and our son's fault... that for some odd reason though, I am able to have fun with others & be animated & carefree... just not with him. After all, just last week he pointed out how jealous he was of these very things I share with others and not him.

He is the one who pushed swinging. We never did it (or at least I never did). I asked him multiple times to stop bringing it up, but he "was only teasing" when he did. I went to counseling as I got so depressed. He laid off. Then after a while, it started up again. My depression returned. I went to counseling again, and he went to about 4 marriage counseling sessions with me this time. His counsellor asked for how long was I going to hold this against my husband & cause him pain. His counsellor suggested I liked doing this (not being able to forgive & move past this swinging stuff) so I could keep his attention & suffering. Again my husband apologized saying he never realized just how deeply I was hurt & now he understood & would not bring it up again.

This time, a few inuendos went by... I told him to stop, I have -0- tolerance for this subject - not to tease me. Then I discovered his profile on a swinging site. I also discovered he had not replied to bait thrown his way. He said he applied to that as "fun" to "see what kinds of ads people place" and see a few "free pics". He got rid of the site upon my discovery, he promised counseling, wanted us to go back to marriage counseling, and for me to go alone as well. He also said if we come to separation, he will not leave the house. And he wants to know why my emotions are not reconnecting to him??

Going to call a counselor Monday. Had wanted to Friday, but my daughter was sick & didn't have time or privacy. Think I'm also going to look over the newspaper to see how much apts cost. He is not out of the woods yet. He may think he is, but I get so tense around him, it is hard to even kiss him.

*sigh* Well, at least he has told me my problems. Thank goodness! I thought I was ok there for a while.

I love my friend.
She is partially right.
Wish me strength, determination, & courage all... please.

January 6, 2007
9:46 pm
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Juanita
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ps - I have a Dr appt next week as a f/u to another appt. I am going to ask her to run a blood test on me to screen for all STD's as my friend advised me to. Better safe than sorry.

January 7, 2007
12:00 am
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mamacinnamon
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Juanita:

Honey, honey, honey... (((( juanita ))))

How can I say this and be sweet and calm and tender regarding this subject. I will try my hardest ok.

HONEY OPEN YOUR EYES.

Look at ALL the problems you have. Look at who all screwed you up. Look at who needs counseling. Look at who needs to move. Look Look Look.

I see here the same shit I got in my first marriage and in this one also. How is it you can be perfectly ok w/ your friends and have fun yet the minute he comes in the door all happiness go out. (I know the answer to that one, just want you to think on it.) So, basically EVERYTHING is your fault or your parents or your little boy;s fault. How dare your and his child screw you up. Does that mean the child is faulty also?

You said he erased his name from the site. Were there others? Have you checked the credit cards to see if there are charges on them? A lot of times these sites want a membership fee.

So I read he has NO remorse, NO guilt, NO acceptance of his responsibility to the falling of your marriage. He did nothing wrong? Is that what he thinks?

Juanita, What does your gut and your head tell you about all this? NOT the heart. It cannot be trusted in matters of this, but your head and your gut. Are you ill? Headaches? diarrhea? nervousness? lack of sleep? the feeling of not wanting to get out of bed? Do any of these apply?

IF this is the same counselor you had before then don't go back. Find a new one. One that will listen to you and will deal w/ YOUR problems and not just jump on the bash Juanita wagon.

Honey, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I don't know how else to say to you to WAKE UP coz this all stinks bigtime. I've been there. I've seen it over and over. And... I'd die before he got that house if he's gonna treat you like this. Sorry.

January 7, 2007
11:14 pm
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Zinnie
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If I remember right he went to the Super Counselor that fixed him in six sessions or less and berated you when she/he met you; from your description.

Then... he apologized and said he would never do it again - and now you state that you found him out on a site only a few months later.

Oh wait!!!!!!! I know!!!!!! He has short term memory right?

Some day I imagine you will get tired of bottom feeding and like all mammals in water - come up for air and find that the skies are actually blue and clear, not whatever color he is painting them.

January 9, 2007
1:17 am
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mamacinnamon
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Juanita:

How are you? Haven't seen you post in a few days. You ok???

January 9, 2007
8:48 am
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Juanita
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We have spent each night crying and talking. He is begging me not to kick him out, he does not want to be a weekend Daddy. For all his errors & faults, he does love his family. I have explained this continued sexual stuff has killed my intimate emotions. I no longer want to be touched or kissed.

He said he has no where to go & does not want to lose the house & kids on top of losing me. He doesn't want to go. He said that is his 'stand', he does not want to lose everything.

I told him I really don't care about the house if I have it or not, but I will NOT leave the kids. That is my stand. Our house has an in ground pool & I don't swim, so that is a major concern of mine. Love is where the heart is, so if I have to move, no big. Clean start over I guess, but I will not leave the children.

He has been seeing my stress more & more, and coming to understand what he has lost in the relationship with me. I don't hate the man, I don't want to do him ill... I am just no longer happy or in love.

He said he did not bring up the sexual stuff this last time. True. He did not bring it up. I found out what he'd been viewing & joining on the internet. He vows he has not cheated. Told him it just clearly shows me this stuff is important to him & hurtful to me. I cannot live with it nor stand it (even if some other women can ~ I can't). He wants me to see a counsellor about this ~ about the rage I still feel, my inability to forgive & move on... I have my health program book w/ me at work today to look up phone numbers.

He asked me last night where I thought he'd go if I kicked him out. I said to his folks house, or contact my cousin for an apt. He had no comment.

So, basically, we have been crying & talking about separation.

I also saw the comment about being likened a bottom feeder. that hurt. 🙁

January 9, 2007
3:42 pm
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Zinnie
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Juanita,

You took what I stated completely out of context.

I am trying to indicate that HE is a bottom feeder, and he is one for all of this that he has put you through. What I was hoping you would understand is that you would be like other mammals in the ocean - at some point, you will come up for air. When that happens, I imagine you will see the skies that are open, clear, clean and blue - not the color of him telling YOU what things are and what they aren't.

From all you have said above, he tells you how to feel, how you should feel, when and why you should feel as you do, and how you should act and re-act. You caught HIM browsing to see what is out there; it was not the other way around. Yet, he has no shame or remorse for any of that - or that is what I am getting from what you are saying. He is only showing the guilt and shame and now anger of being caught.

If he was as really as "wonderful Daddy" that he makes himself out to be, I would think he would want what would be best and the most stable decision for his children. If I recall correctly, when you first posted about him, one of your complaints was the complete lack of interest he showed you or the kids until you finally cried out for his attention. Perhaps in his case, being a "Weekend Daddy" would be better for all involved - he would have two solid days weekly to devote to his children instead of only giving them a minute here or there after you have had to beg him to do so.

January 9, 2007
4:36 pm
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taj64
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Ya know I really admire you for standing ground on what you will do as far as crossing your own personal lines as far as swinging goes. But honestly does it not really boil not to the fact that he has not cheated but the idea that he feels is ok. Some marriages are perfectly acceptable to this idea. I see some excusing now based on emotions. He wants you to see a counselor for your problem. What exactly is your problem that you don't want to swing and he does? How is that a problem? If you don't trust him then you do not. And since you were the one betrayed then you are the one that needs compassion on the time table to be able to trust. Trust is not something you turn a switch on. He is unreasonable I think. These men always want to sweep it under the carpet, to forget it and go back to whatever was normal. In my opinion swinging is nothing short of approved cheating. A means to justify it. Sorry if I offend those that believe in it. And if I have a partner who did want to swing, then I would know in my heart that the man did not truly respect me. You just know, and that is why you have such a hard time getting the love back because I think maybe you do not respect him. Should you not respect the man you are married to? Im so sorry you go through this. Emotions are high and can easily persuade you to change your mind as it is really difficult to break up. Guilt can put lot of pressure on you because you don't really want to decide. You want someone to do it for you. Only is a coming from a man who may or may not change. Does he truly believe in a committed relationship? Do you believe it? I hope you find the answers you are looking for. Yeah I would go to counseling but do it for yourself because you want to, not because he wants to push it along.

January 12, 2007
12:48 pm
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Juanita
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Wanted to pop on briefly. My home computer is giving me a hard time ~ so my time is very limited to breaks, or before or after work.

Thank you all for responding.

I have not let him touch me since finding that computer profile. I have a Dr appt on Tuesday & will ask for a blood test. Muddling thru this list of counsellors that my medical plan offers. Some say counsellor, some say physcologist... Got to see who has openings, etc.

His Mom chatted w/ me last night. He has informed her some of what's going on. She thinks he's normal as far as a man being sexually curious, and that "love forgives all". I asked her how many times love is supposed to forgive? She said "All". She also commented we needed to set up boundaries & respect them. Told her I did that & he kept 'slipping'.... if I keep forgiving, there is no consequence & things will continue. She asked if I trusted him & believed him. I said not completely, no. He has a history of repeatedly bringing up & expressing interest in certain things (was trying to be a little descreet with my Mother In Law in the beginning). I have made my feelings known, well known, multiple times. She left off saying I should continue to try to forgive & stay in the marriage. All that, even after being told her son encouraged me to have sex with other people & "swing" amongst other marrital problems. Apparently HE told Her I had interest in other men... I said that was not accurate ~ he's the one who brought that stuff up & wouldn't let it go. She agrees w/ him & thinks I need counseling. She says I appear to be insecure, aggitated and depressed. (can I say 'duh!')

Anyway, I wanted to say thanks to everyone here. My computer has been a real pain lately. I am still trying to get a counsellor in my area. Not backing down & letting him touch me. Found out local rents for a 3 bedroom apt w/ heat included cost approx $800 a month, wanting 1st, last & security up front... so at least I'm looking into those too. That's a lot of money... He won't leave the house, says it will be deemed as abandonment of the children if he does. (If I go & take the kids, will that be considered kidnapping I wonder?) He has told me that he loves me & will never stop, that if I leave I will financially ruin the family, and I will have to be the one to explain everything to the kids as all he'll tell them is that he loves me & doesn't want me to go. I did email my cousin to see if he had any apts available, but those would be 40 minutes away from this area.

As ever, much thinking to do. Wanted to let you guys know I didn't forget about you guys taking hte time to post here. I just can't get here daily.

January 12, 2007
1:25 pm
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bevdee
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Hi Juanita,

I really wouldn't give much credence to what his MOTHER says.

I would suggest talking to a lawyer or legal aid rep regarding your questions about abandonment and kidnapping.

"He has told me that he loves me & will never stop, that if I leave I will financially ruin the family, and I will have to be the one to explain everything to the kids as all he'll tell them is that he loves me & doesn't want me to go."

I see more of these attempts at intimidation and fear to come. He will try anything, won't he? He even called his mama!!

Take care Juanita

January 12, 2007
4:06 pm
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Zinnie
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Juanita,

Your husband is a fucking shit that should be flogged.

He wants all of this shit, and then has the nerve to tell his family and friends that YOU have interest in other men? Well... other men that HE picked out for you.

They want you to stay, and if you leave you have to explain all of this to your family? What the hell alternate reality is this dumbass living in?

You adored this man, by your own admission, tolerating all of his shenanigans and machinations for far longer than any other sane person I know would have done.

After reading this, I asked my daughter-in-law what she would do. Keep in mind, she is 22 years old with eight children and another on the way. Her immediate reply - he would have to leave, or I would take the children back to Norway, and work back with my family. Only way.

So, his Mama says that this will by your fault if it comes to pass? Why, because she does not want to end up with him on her sofa.

What about the broad in town he has or had or whatever that was... perhaps he can go stay there? Or wait! Oh ho... I know! He can go stay with his other friend... the Priest, to whom he confessed all his transgressions, but said he did not commit a sin. One of said transgressions was the study and interest in Wicca. Geez... I ran that one by my brother who is a Priest, and he wants to know why Rome has not been contacted to dispatch someone to handle the excorism!

Tell him, do not ask him, tell him - complete with a packed bag... "GET OUT NOW!" if he won't leave... call the cops. Ask your Dad to come and change the locks.

What a sick sick sick and pathetic little man.

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