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My depression and self hatred are consuming me and I can't stand living like this
September 24, 2007
11:47 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi, mzrella.

I had to get that out of my system.

Anyway, you are a senior poster here and I've seen you go through a variety of seasons and moods. You seem to be having a tough time, lately. Sorry about that.

Your language and symptoms are ringing a bell for me here. I definitely understand the "I hate-myself-mybody-my-miserable life and don't feel like painting up thetown" syndrome.

And it is the thing I want to talk about least of all.

So I want to engage you some.

Could you remind me of your brief biography?

As I recall, you are...40-ish? With history of unusual medical issues? Weren't you married or practically married before?

I apologize that my memory is not so good.

Anyway, the way you are talking reminds me of a thing that lots of middle-age-ish folks go through called "spiritual emergence."

Actually, it can happen to a person at any age, but 40 is the *classic* age.

It starts off with the feeling of being at the bottom of a deep hole with steep sides.

Then it gets worse, then better, then much worse, and then much better.

September 25, 2007
12:21 am
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Hi WD,

I was away from the PC. I'm packing up my stuff in my apt. to go into storage because I'm having the place renovated. Which will be a nice perk, but for now some work to keep me busy. NOt a bad thing I guess.

Well, I am almost 40- 38. I was in two very serious relationships, live-ins. Only one was an engagement, and then we realized we were far too messed up (thank god).. we were making the arrangements for the papers etc, (we were going to elope since my family hated him) and since we were such slacker junkies, a few trips downtown for id were enough to make us realize we weren't even cut out for the paperwork, much less the marraige. Gee, go figure. Dope, however, we would have run to the ends of the earth for.

Yeah, 40 is on the horizon, I've never been married, never had kids and I work with children. So everyday I am around reminders of what I didn't do with my life. Also, I mentioned above, most of my coworkers are young enough for me to have given birth to, so that doesn't help. I hate it.

I'm sick of being the invisible woman in the room. I'm sick of people thinking that my feelings don't matter. Scenarios like other coworkers (and I'm not even talking about men here.. I won't go there) going up to my coworker when I am sitting right there and telling her how beautiful she looks that day blah blah blah showering her with attention and complements as if I am not even there. I don't think that other people should not have compliments simply because I am there, I just can't believe how overwhelmingly little I seem to matter sometimes to anyone. I hate it.

I don't want my drug addicted bf back. But what I do miss is that I've had men in my life who did make me feel special and beautiful. I know I should do that for myself, but it was nice once in a while to have that from someone else.

I had a friend once who spoke of once being very beautiful and now handing that enjoyment over to younger women because it is now "their turn." Well, being depressed, I don't feel I ever HAD a turn to enjoy. So f*ck that. I will not grow old gracefully, as the commercial says, I will go kicking and screaming every inch of the way.

Yes, I feel like I am in a hole, and I am digging sand out of it so that I don't suffocate. ANd I am very tired. Has anyone read the book "Woman in the Dunes?" I think that is the title, and I think the author might be Japanese. I'm not sure. But that's what I feel like.

Thank you for asking about me,
hugs,
ella

September 25, 2007
12:23 am
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Actually, I should clarify. Those relationships were the ones that happened in the past 15 years that were the most significant. There were others, but they didn't hurt as much.

September 25, 2007
12:27 am
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Woman of the Dunes is a novel by Kobo Abe and a film based on the novel directed by Japanese director Hiroshi Teshigahara.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W....._the_Dunes

------------

Haven't seen the movie, but the book is EXCELLENT.

September 25, 2007
7:44 am
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MZrella- Did you go through a period of recovering from drug use? If so the drugs may have affected the chemicals in your brain. When we take drugs to make us feel happy then our brain stops producing chemicals like endorphins that makes us feel happy. After drug use sometimes peoples brains are no longer able to produce the chemicals that make them feel happy and their brains cause them to feel sad, and find fault in everything. I have heard that Welbuterin helps with this kind of problem.

September 25, 2007
7:48 am
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MZrella- What kind of bad reactions do you have to the meds that wind you up in the hospital?

September 25, 2007
8:01 am
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ScaredinMichigan
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(((mzrella)))

Hoping that you have a good day...and that one day at a time you start to feel better. This may be an uphill battle for a little while....but, YOU ARE NOT ALONE. You have a lot of people here that care.

Thinking about you this morning...

Mich

September 25, 2007
8:48 am
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risingfromtheashes
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ella,

I am kind of late to the game here...but wanted to echo what everyone here is saying.

go slow - go easy.

If the gym is where it's at for you right now - go for it.

Plus, exercise boosts your endorphins, which makes you feel soooo much better.

Plus, you will feel better about yourself cuz you are doing something good.

If you find yourself overdoing it, then set a "schedule" and try to stick to it - don't push it. And don't beat yourself up for not being able to do what you used to.

I am going thru my second pregnancy after 14 years with the first - and I am constantly upset with myself cuz I feel so damn miserable, so huge, and so unable to do the littlest things....and people keep reminding me, A) I am not as young as I used to be and B) every pregnancy is different - but overall, I AM PREGNANT and give myself a break.

So, I have to force myself to do just that.

I think you should be proud you are making the attempts to get out into the world - many of us have HUGE FEARS of going to the gym - so I am sorry your therapist is down on you for it...cuz it's actually one of the hardest places for many people to go to.

So, give yourself some credit.

Now, go get 'em!

September 25, 2007
9:45 am
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chelonia mydas
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(((Ella)))

I haven't been on in a while so I didn't see this until now or I would have posted sooner.

Sounds like you have already gotten tons of good advice, I don't think there is much more I can add- except that I care just because you are a great person. It seems that alot of people on this list feel the same way.

I'm not in a real good place right now either so I can relate. (I was suppose to be at work over an hour ago and just couldn't get out of bed... so now I am feeding all the pets and trying to get motivated to go in)

Things always change... at least that is what I keep counting on to get through this. So far it has always been true in my life- there always seems to be change. If I like something I better enjoy it then, because it won't stay that way. If I don't like something, I just need to tolerate it for a while because it won't stay that way forever- even though some unbearable situations have felt that way at the time.

Lots of hugs and sunshine to ya 🙂

Chelonia

September 25, 2007
11:08 am
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Ella, I've always really appreciated your insights and thoughts on these threads.

For what it's worth......I am apparently old enough to have given birth to YOU, so......you gotta let go of that one, OK?

I think Destiny Star has a point about the chemicals that "alter" one's ability to feel happy. My H often comes up with this negativity, despite all the (huge amount of) exercise he gets daily. I've often thought that he gets really physically tired, and then at the end of the day tries to "relax" with alcohol, and that old routine is no longer working. He simply slides into an unhappy, "nothing's right" and "nothing's good enough" mode.

So the "I'm a loser" thought must be plaguing him, and his over-compensating behavior looks so immature now......as much as I want to "point out" how needy he reveals himself to be, I know I would be greeted by retorts like "You're no better" or "No, that's not how it is", etc.

I really don't know how to help.

When I've been at that place where I feel like I've actually done well by getting out of bed and going through the day's motions......maybe the nicest thing anyone could do would be to recognize that....some small gestures of comfort or understanding. Attention....with respect and not pity.

Do you remember ever reading "Games People Play"? I always think of the game "Why don't you.....yes, but...".

It's about the central person stating the problem, and then all the folks around her/him making suggestions for helping solve the problem.....and the game is in the really clever ways in which the person with the problem is able to deflect or eliminate ANY of the solutions.

Apparently, so that he or she will be able to continue to struggle with the problem ........

anyway, the gist of the game I guess was to retain the problem maybe for the sake of the attention the game gets us......the idea that I would not be considered worthy of conversation without this fairly engaging problem that others can relate to and feel drawn to ....

so........I now have to examine WHY I feel I need to hang on to the problem. Where would I be if I just let go of it? How to do that? Is it possible?

I got to go on an extended trip recently and spent time with one of my most thought-provoking friends. He said he really disliked hiring people who were not "can do" people! (How arrogant and frickin' special, I thought!) But then he expanded on this. He's sort of adopted the idea as a theme.....in life as well as the designer profession he is in. He delights in having folks in his work environment who do not say O that cannot be done, but who absolutely see every impossibility as a challenge to find a way to make it so.

I don't know that I can capture the concept well enough to completely turn around my well-flawed life, but it really nudged me into trying to stop the hopeless, helpless negativity I can gather in to myself. I've been trying to make conscious efforts to catch myself and ask myself "Wait, HOW ELSE could I be thinking about this?" or "How would so-and-so (someone I know and admire with a positive attitude) think about this"?

And it has helped me. I don't know that I've expressed it very well, but I was hoping it might have been said from a slightly different perspective that it would give you a tool for what you're trying to deal with.

My best wishes and caring thoughts, Ella.

September 25, 2007
11:46 am
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Ella, Im sorry you are going through a rough time.

I understand what your therapist is saying. You might want to think about volunteering somehow like in a soup kitchen or the needy or with kids, the ideas could be endless. It would give you a chance to mingle with people that help others and it would help you to feel good to give to others so that you are not so angry and resentful towards others.

If you are in a bad mood too much of course it is easy not to like anyone, even a therapist who is trying to help you. Volunteering helps keep your mind off the negativity and to meet others who help others as well.

If you give to others, you get much more back. Gym does wonders so true, but that is for the self and physical being and yes it is yet more alone time it is only 1 thing that you know is helpful. You can only do so much for yourself.

Balance is the key, give to others, it will make you feel good. Other people might just need you too.

Don't let depression rule your life, it is not YOU right now, so get up and be YOU, take control. SOmeone else is laying in that bed moping.

Your therapists is hard on you because eventually people that don't want to help themselves, even a therapist can get frustrated and yes they can give up too, or why waste your money if you are not willing to change. It is making you think though, it is working because you are fighting with yourself over it. She is only trying to help, remember this.

It must be really hard for you to have not realized that you are almost 40 and not married and no children. This is really tough to accept, not easy. And difficult to be around people that appear to have it all. There is a little hope here though, you can not entirely rule it out, you not that old. And by then if you get to that point it might be easier to accept, but you cannot give up entirely here. There is still time.
Doesn't it suck when people rub into your face especially when you are down! But they dont truly mean to hurt. When you try too hard then that is when things don't happen. So yes I can see where your therapist is coming from, she is getting you to do something different, and what you are doing now is not working. She is right on the ball, even if you don't see it.

I read this today and it is so true - LOVE PEOPLE AND USE THINGS - NOT LOVE THINGS AND USE PEOPLE.

Feel better soon, and know you can beat this. Have faith, there is answer, you just dont have it at the moment. Fear is just a word anyway. The anticipation of it is way worse than actually doing it.

Good luck.

September 25, 2007
5:25 pm
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Hi Ella ~ I'm sorry you are having tough time and appreciate even more the support you gave me just a couple days ago. I know very well how does it feel when you have no energy to get out of bed and face another day, I was there not long time ago, and all I wanted was not to feel the pain anymore.

I had a really tough and stressful day and my brain is literally a mush, cannot think straight, but I just wanted to let you know that I am thinking about you, my friend. You are still young and you are a very beautiful person, and a good friend. Take care.(((((mzrella))))

September 25, 2007
8:34 pm
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Hi, Ella, Im glad I could be of some help. I am touched by your difficulties. Right now, as of yesterday, I feel very down again. Im not cranking up enough translation pages about medicine of all subjects and that makes me depressed but the seed is there, right, just ready to bloom. So let´s try to not let the rough side of life take the best of us. I know filling my time with work is what I need to do but not what will keep me from getting depressed. I hope we can enjoy the small things in life, be sensitive in regards to our needs and growth and not others comments or those bad dics playing in our heads. No life has a prescribed recipe so lets experiment with some new spices, just a tad, a pintch, aso. Maybe we´ll be absorbed in it that we wont need to find hope, we´ll FEEL hope sprouting in us. Lots of love,

September 25, 2007
11:03 pm
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Destinystar-

Hi,

Yeah, I used drugs. Of and on since late teenage years. But I can only say that I heavily abused or approached addiction for part of one year. That was heroin. I know what you say is true, but I think the use would have to be more long term than mine? My doctor knows about the addiction, I was in a day program (I screwed up my insurance and they wouldn't let me go into an "away" program, and I have insurance so I couldn't get public assistance or well... whatever... I got help).

Actually, I did go on Welbutrin for a while. And this stuff called naltrexone which basically blocks the opiates if you yourself do not have the will power. So for whatever reason, I had to go off Welbutrin. Maybe side effects? I do not recall. It's pretty stupid of me, but I've been on so many of these perscription meds and don't have any personal record of which one or when.

Thank you for thinking of that, obviously, you were somewhat on target. I really do not know what happened with the Wellbutrin. My family remembers all these things better than I do! So maybe I will ask them.

hugs,
ella

September 25, 2007
11:09 pm
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Destiny-

As for your second question-

Side effects can range from the minor annoying, (tremors and frequent urination- lithium), to physically altering (hair loss- several meds do that including depakote at first- but then it stopped- the others didn't, weigh gain- many meds do that), to fatigue or stimulation.

The worst, of course, that lands me in the hospital (don't ask what their called- off the top of my head I forget- since i'm sworn off anti-depressants I don't make it my business to remember, though it might be a good idea to take note of again)- well, some meds have the OPPOSITE effect in some people that they are supposed to have, sending one down into a deeper depth of depression, suicidal attempts, and sometimes psychosis. Fun stuff. Don't want to go there again.

September 25, 2007
11:10 pm
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ScaredinMich-

Thanks for your warmth.

hugs,
ella

September 25, 2007
11:13 pm
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risingfromtheashes-

Hello thank you for posting with your encouraging words of understanding.

It's not so much that my therapist is down on me for going to the gym. She WANTS me to. It's just that she says I'm not doing enough. That what I do isn't social enough. But I feel like... well, there's only so many hours in the day, you know?

hugs,
ella

September 25, 2007
11:17 pm
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Chelonia-

Awwww. Thank you for posting to me when you are having a bad time too. I will look for you elsewhere to find out what is going on... if you want tell me here- but I'm sure you don't want to go over what you've probably already typed somewhere else. If you haven't... let's hear it. I'm so sorry you are down. You are always such an inspiration to me. Sometimes it is just hard to get out of bed and face the day. Everyone takes "mental health" days now and then- just not everyone calls them that!

Yes I hope change comes for us all soon, send my love to your animals.

hugs,
ella

September 25, 2007
11:29 pm
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Hi Brynnie-

"When I've been at that place where I feel like I've actually done well by getting out of bed and going through the day's motions......maybe the nicest thing anyone could do would be to recognize that....some small gestures of comfort or understanding. Attention....with respect and not pity. " OH I so hear you. Pity does not equal understanding. Pity is condescending.

Yeah, I think I know what you are getting at with the Games People Play thing (though I never heard of it before this). But that's basically what therapy is. Therapists don't know what is going to work for you until they share it with you and get to know you. There is a lot of trial and error. My therapists have offered me losts of wonderful solutions and advice over the years that I think have saved me and I know I would be much worse off with out them. Lately, as I've said we are hitting a wall... or a plateau. Something. I'm not rejecting all of her advice, she's great most of the time. There's just this insistance on her part where she needs to listen a little more before telling me what to do. Because I'm "doing" quite a bit already. I need to catch my breath, my pace is slower than hers and my road might be different than she's mapping out for me.

Is that what you are getting at? I'm not sure. It was a little abstract. I'm always trying to change myself, and my approach. Sometimes though, there are limitations we must face- not always just within ourselves, but with reality. It's okay to say "Now is time for me to learn how to accept that I do not have the things I want and never will." It's hard. But I want to learn to do that, not spend or waste my whole life searching for something empty when there are good things I can be enjoying.

thanks for your thoughtful post.
hugs,
ella

September 26, 2007
12:19 am
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Hi Taj64-

Thank you for posting here, it's good to see you. You know you got me going on a hot topic for me right??? 🙂 Just so you know...

Yeah, you are right. My therapist is good people. There's no way I want a new one, I know she's just trying to come up with SOMETHING because I know she's also worried about me. She told me she wants me to get a new doctor... I'm having a hard time, but I tried and got discouraged. I really will get a new doctor. Mine sucks. So there must be some pressure on her to see improvement, but on my end, I do not blame her for my continuing sadness. I do try to change and do new things, but there are somethings I am not ready for or do not want to do. One is internet dating (hasn't been brought up, but I know I don't want to do it) another is volunteering. The thing she told me about, that I WILL definitely do after my renovation is over... is joining a knitting group. I think that will be nice.

Well, let me explain why the volunteer thing isn't going to work for me right now. I'm still working on setting my boundaries with people in my everyday life. This might sound really selfish, but without any other way to explain it- and I know it's MY ISSUE TO GET OVER- I have problems being around people who are in dire circumstance because, well, I have boundary issues. Not because I don't care, because I care too much, as sappy as that sounds- but hear me out. I am working on how not to sabatoge my job by getting over involved in difficult situations (I work around some kids who are quite unsupervised by parents, have little money, and for other reasons many others will grow to be at risk teens). It is not my job to even worry about this, but I do and I can't help it. I do what I can to enrich their lives, and that's what I want to put my energy into.

I guess they train you at these volunteer places, but right now, I'm just learning how to function in everyday life without getting the life drained out of me. I know that sounds stupid, but remember I came here primarily because of the issue of codependency- not addiction, not depression- though I struggle with both. Maybe someday I will feel strong enough to volunteer and do things that will help others in a way that is significant, and not having a breakdown.

Somehow, my therapist and I haven't discussed this aspect of volunteering. First of all, I work too many hours, it doesn't appeal to me to work more, (it is a commitment, not a hobby) and all the things I actually do have a passion for and would want to do something for animal rights, the elderly, the homeless... these are things that set me off crying at the drop of a hat. No amount of training right now is going to harden me to that. I just can't do it. So, even though it sounds like a cop out- the most I feel up to now is writing the occasional check. I know it doesn't seem like much.

Honestly, I neeed to be selfish, I need to have fun... I'm just not having any. I guess people who don't know me will say "you need to get out of your head and start thinking about others." Well, they are 1/2 right. I need to get out of my own head. But I think about others all the time, and I get sad for them too. I was getting ready tonight to post a thread about my coworker... her husband had a stroke and I can't stop crying when I think about her. I dont' know what I am going to say to her when I see her... I want to hug her but I dont' want to cry because I know that will upset her and it's not my problem it is hers. You know what I mean? Like how do you feel when you are suffering and someone ELSE falls apart on you? It's just not about me, but I am not good with stuff. You ever get all weepy like that? My coworker is this hardworking woman, who doesn't get the credit she deserves, she went on a missionary trip with her VACATION TIME and her husband didn't take his meds when she was gone and had a stroke. SHIT. She is one of the best people I know and she was doing what she thought was a great thing, something she believed in, and now this. It's so unfair. I admire her, but I can't be like her. I'm just not that strong. Anyway, so you can see, I'm a basket case because I can't even deal with other people's problems without getting upset. You can't understand my true nature by this site.

Maybe volunteering would help me build those coping skills and boundaries... but I'm not ready, and I need to relax and have some time to self indulge. I've been indulging in the wrong ways. I'm a woman of extremes... workaholic/addict. You get me?

I'm not going to talk too much about how so many of these "charities" are just a little too close to some people and some times in my life and how I'm not exactly insensitive to their needs. Places I've been, people I've known. I get it. The world is a bottomless pit of need. When I can I'll be ready to go and lend a hand (other than the work I do which isn't exactly a great salary in my city). I'm not adverse to doing "good work." I know my therapist is just trying to appeal to my value system. But that's the thing- maybe if I pushed papers for some corporation all day... going to do volunteer work would have more of an appeal. I almost feel as if I do it already due to the overwhelming demands of my job. It's okay, because I think what I do is important. But it wouldn't be okay to take on commitments that burned me out more.

BTW, I DID volunteer for a soup kitchen once...or tried to when I was out of work and thought I should keep out of trouble and do something good. They wouldn't take me. Turns out they only took NYU trust fund babies. I guess it makes sense that those people need to be more in touch with reality and have the time and energy to give back- not to mention the emotional cushion of being young and unhaggard.

It's a tacky subject, and sounds like I'm being defensive- and I guess one can't help but explain themselves- "why don't you want to do volunteer work?" Gee, it sounds so selfish, no matter what you reply. I just have to wonder then, why don't more people with full time jobs, and 3 hour a day commutes do it? Looks like sainthood just isn't in the cards for me in the near future.

Can you elaborate on how "LOVE PEOPLE AND USE THINGS - NOT LOVE THINGS AND USE PEOPLE." Umm. I do that. Don't see that it pertains to me just because I don't want to volunteer. I'm not going to say that is why I am depressed. Because I don't volunteer my time. Do people expect non single people with children and extended families to volunteer their time in lieu of pursuing their own interests? Somehow I doubt it. A family is also for one's own interest. Why do I owe more to the world because I don't have one? I think it the opposite. When people breed and create more consuming individuals, then they and those children should go out and take care of the planet and country they are living in. I am making a contribution already. I could do a job that serves my ego and my self interests a lot more than mine does. Volunteer? I leave it to the NYU trustaferians for now. With the exception of 6th months of wanton drug use, I've lived a life I might not be exstatic about- but I'm proud of, in that I've tried to be the best person I could at the moment. And that goes for now as well.

thanks for caring enough to post here, I'm glad we are talking again.

hugs,
ella

September 26, 2007
12:26 am
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chelonia mydas
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Ella,

Thanks for such kind words...

I don't have a thread right now. I'm just in a I-don't-matter/can't-do-anything-right kind of mood right now.

I might post a thread tomorrow... but for the moment I have a bed covered in the light of the full moon with kitties just waiting for me to cuddle them.

My life is actually going well in terms of events and things... just emotionally feeling crappy and I can't give a logical reason.

I really enjoy our friendship- thank you. Even if it is online- it is nice to know that another human someplace cares.

Goodnight- I hope you get a chance to enjoy the moonlight too 🙂

Chelonia

September 26, 2007
12:27 am
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This is not a complete thought:
"A family is also for one's own interest"

What I was going to say was "for some people" a family is for one's own interest. People have families to spread their love, be less alone, etc... why is this always seen as an altruistic act when it serves them as well? Doesn't always work out as bliss... but single people are seen as selfish and self absorbed because we don't have one. As if we never spend our time "giving to others." That's what i was trying to get at.

September 26, 2007
12:30 am
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Matteo-

I'm sorry you had a stressful day as well. (I fucked up at work royally closing the building... it's no biggie, it just COULD have been and it stressed me out.. I missed most my therapy session).

I will look for you tonight, but have a feeling you've signed off since it's late. If I find your posts, I'll drop you a line.

hugs,
ella

September 26, 2007
12:37 am
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sininho-

Darn. Another one down. What's up girl? I might find out when I look at the rest of the site. If not, I hope you are feeling a little better tomorrow.

we will "talk" soon again I hope.

hugs,
be well,
ella

September 26, 2007
12:43 am
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chelonia-

It's good to know things are going well for you, sad to know you are not feeling well enough to enjoy them. Of course I care, I miss you when I can't find your posts. Even if you are on a thread I don't write on... I love reading what you write. You are special to me... I'm really touched actually by this thread. Everyone has been so sweet and these past few days, it really made a difference. I thank you. I really mean those hugs I've been signing off with.

Maybe it's the moon. It was looking full-ish. So maybe we're having some sadness in sync with it...sininho too... I used to believe in stuff like that before I got all URBANIZED. LOL.

Well, hopefully we will all feel a little better soon.

I have my Xanax for now. Isn't that lovely?

oh, don't worry, it was perscribed.

hugs,
ella

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