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MY DAUGHTER HATES ME
December 26, 2001
10:32 am
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pam g fu
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MY DAUGHTER CALLED THIS MORNING AND SAID THAT SHE HATES ME. THAT REALLY HURTS ALOT BECAUSE I CAN'T ALWAYS MAKE THINGS BETTER AND HER BROTHER IS IN JAIL AND WE CAN'T GET HIS LAST PAYCHECK CASHED TO PAY LAWYER FEES. SO NOW SHE IS MAD AT ME. SHE HAS TO INCOMES AND I ONLY HAVE ONE. WHAT DO YOU DO?

December 26, 2001
11:41 am
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gypsygirl
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She is angry and taking it out on you. Did she give any details as to why? Remember that she is a fragile human like the rest of us. Do not take it to heart. She needs to vent like the rest of us. Stress is a major downfall in any kind of relationship. Talk with her, find out the root of her anger.

December 26, 2001
12:06 pm
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pam g fu
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i know buy mom always doesn't do like she thinks

December 26, 2001
12:33 pm
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Molly
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Duh, like I can't help you here, think its in the water. Misery loves company ? ugh ugh let it go, we can please some of the people some of the time ? These kids think they have all the answers, and one of these days when their back is up against the wall, instead of sitting back and calling the shots on how every one is supposed to live their lives, they will get it. Tell her its her brother for crying out loud, this time you can't make the miracle, so instead of sitting there spitting her anger, and frustration, to put her hard earned bucks on the table. If your not part of the solution dear daughter, your part of the problem.

December 26, 2001
12:58 pm
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pam g fu
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THANKS I GUESS I AM FEELING A LITTLE SORRY FOR MYSELF INSTEAD OF BEING THANKFUL FOR WHAT I DO HAVE AND WHAT I DO HAVE IS ALOT OF GOO0D FRIENDS.

December 26, 2001
1:07 pm
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Molly
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Your allowed to feel sorry for your self, for just a little bit. it was a couple of years ago, that my girls started their crap, I sunk in my heart and mind lower than I thought I could go right after comming out of a bad depressive bout. We just don't think that they can do or say the things that they do, we sure as hell don't expect to get smacked by mom then turn around and get it from the daughter, but some how its related, haven't figured it out yet, but there is a connection. Screw them all. We do the best we can, we make the best choices available, and if that doesn't make every one happy, you just have to let it go. I did, and to be honest, I feel lighter, I feel really good, that I reached out as much as I could, you can give them life, but you can't tell them how to live it, ya know. My girls never called, far less came by, so they have a bigger wall to jump over when they decide they are ready to. They will get it one of these days, just like your daughter will. There is this little bitty tiny part of me that feels proud, that they are so strong, and independent that they think they can do this, they just don't know what its going to cost them yet. Then the other part of me feels sad for them that this part of their heart is numb. We just keep on, strong in our faith in us, right?

December 26, 2001
4:19 pm
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pam g fu
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Girls i know what i need to do and one part of me has gotten so cold and uncaring then the other part overcompensates, i do better with other situations than I do myself. Like i have tried to tell my kids it is my turn for my life now, but they don't like it when i say that. i don't always make the right decisions and never will we are all human.

December 26, 2001
7:10 pm
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Molly
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Sure they don't like it, life is supposed to be to them, all about them, who said we were supposed to get some damn happiness here. Well its our turn now, right? don't even know why I put the question mark there, they are selfish and just waiting to suck up more is the way I see it right now. Our kids are pretty much the same age, they have no tolorance for neediness, even when it boils down to respect or pay backs, its just the time today. They will learn what we were trying to hold on to what little there was to hold. We did our best, and now it is time to harden our hearts a little bit. We gave it a shot, we didn't have the book of life that they are reading, remember when we had all the answers, knew what we were doing, well its their turn now, and they will learn. I thought about tossing my self on the pillar of fire, thinking how much harm I must have done to cause them to act out like this, but damn, call me queen of denial, but couldn't my finger on it, so won't burn my self today. Most likely not tommorow either. Sure when I do the dishes, and have my 5 seconds alone with my grief, I go there, but realize the only thing I am getting out of it is swollen eyes, and damn it, they make me look old and mean, so I am trying real hard to practice what I preach, its their stuff, not mine. Not yours, not blondies, its all about them now, let them reap what they sew.

December 26, 2001
7:46 pm
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Molly
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Ignoring you won't kill you, going to their fathers wont kill you. Where is bf?

December 27, 2001
9:30 am
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pam g fu
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Blondie

so what is up with your kids? Molly thanks

December 27, 2001
1:11 pm
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scherza
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Wow. I read and reread this thread and want to help somehow. I would absolutely die if my own child hated me....

I recall some of the final communications my mother and I had. We had 2 months to "clean it up" before she died. I was 24 and she was 43. We knew by her yellowing complexion that we didn't have much time...her breast cancer had metastisized to her brain...11 brain tumors were found on the CT scan.

She abandoned me several times as a child...and she didn't protect me from sexual abuse or physical violence. I spent my adolescence on the streets hiding from her husband and living in my car. I was really pissed at her when she suddenly decided that she was wrong and she wanted me to forgive her. I yelled and screamed at her. She cried. She was so tough and defiant for so many years while *I* cried...watching her leave and knowing that, if she did come back, it would be a couple of months...and she would act like nothing happened. She seemed to enjoy hurting me when I was a child.

Anyway...I could see that she was dying and we didn't have time to hash things out for very long. I kept my yelling and screaming short. I have a personal philosophy that I don't like to leave things unfinished...so I gave her about 17 years of raw rage in 4 days. She didn't fight me this time with defensive anger...she shrivelled into a puddle on the floor. She validated my anger and kept saying that she loved me. I kept screaming. Her mother came by and I listened to how she spoke of my mother...and I started to get it. Suddenly the pieces of the picture started to fit for me...my grandmother was very critical of my mother and she didn't seem to like me very much, either. We were a lot a like, my mother and I. Free spirits...filthy hippies. It didn't matter that I had done so well with my life...especially in school...I was my mother's daughter. I looked further. My grandmother was an immigrant...and she was a filthy foreigner. I learned to speak the "old language" and I spoke some of it to my grandmother...and she got very angry at me for talking to her in Hungarian. I started to "get it" some more.

Still only about a month left with mom...I decided that there was no way in hell that my mother could make it all up to me...and we HAD been such good friends on occasion...like sisters and not like mother-daughter. I had to negotiate with myself the corners and curves around being bigger than needing a mother...and see that my own mother needed a mother...and hers wasn't being very nice right now....and that time was running out.

I kidnapped my mother and took her out on the town...I scared the hell out of her. We laughed and cried together and got locked out of my car and stopped by the police and we ate greasy hamburgers on the wharf and we slowed down when she was out of breath...and sped up she she caught her breath.

The brain tumors changed her personality pretty quickly...they were growing fast. She started talking like a small child. I played with her...like a mom does with a kid. She called me by her mother's name...the un-Americanized name. I rocked her to sleep and read to her. Her last words to me were, "I love you!" Then she lost consciousness. She was in a coma for 2 weeks before she died. I was there when she took her last breath.

My mother's nondefensive apology and asking of my forgiveness and her unconditional love...even when I was being a REAL bitch helped me. Also, knowing that there wasn't much time left made me process things faster.

It is really strange...today. I still feel like the abandoned child...but I really do forgive her. She made some stupid choices...which she acknowledged on her death bed...but she was just doing the best she could. I realized that she couldn't truly be my mother because she didn't have anything there to give me...and she bearly had anything for herself. Also, the damage to me didn't completely abate with this process...the damage is mine now. And it is my responsibility to work through it and NOT to pass it on to my own child.

Another thing...I was afraid to hate my mother for so long because I thought that she would leave and NEVER come back for sure. The fact that your girls are able to tell you their feelings could mean that you have given them enough security as their mom that they don't fear losing your love by hurting you...as I did. This COULD be an "in" for making repairs in the future.

Sometimes, I just want to lock kids and parents in conflict in a room and force them to face their stuff with each other...sort of like what my mom and I did.

I don't have the answers...but I have been the daughter that hated her mother. I can only share my thoughts and experiences...and maybe they will help....

Kindest regards to all of you.....

December 27, 2001
1:28 pm
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pam g fu
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Scherza

what you say is so true, but yes i have always been there for my kids, but not like they want, usually the anger and hate comes out when they don't get their way and mom can't make it better. i was the mom and the dad the dad was always working and never offered anything but the financial end. plus my kids are jealous because i am going on with my life and me and my daughter were good friends just like you and your mom but when i got my divorce we partied together but then we have our own lives to live and get on so forth. i have had to live and let them live and sometimes i think that they think that i don't care, but i do. at least i am not like my mom, not even a call on xmas day and i am tired of trying she knows the number that is sad, the bad thing is one day we will al miss out on this part of our lives and it will have passed it by. that is very sad but i can't let it bring me down and sometimes it makes me think what have i done wrong and no i am not the perfect mother i do make bad choices and my decisions aren't always justified. but this is for me sort out and hopefully one day things will be allright.

December 27, 2001
4:54 pm
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Molly
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It is sad, and all we can do is our best.

December 27, 2001
5:11 pm
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pam g fu
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Molly,

but sometimes don't you feel like your best isn't enough?

December 27, 2001
5:42 pm
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Molly
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Guess that is what they think right now, not good enough to call or come down once in a year. their grandmother and father live about one hour from me, and I have observed their monthly visits, when they were to busy for me, of course I was always welcomed up to their area, but hotels, or the couch, and always I need, I want, and buying every meal. I just figured the one with the most money won, the one with the most social connections wins, the one with the most business connections wins. All those lessons about integrity and family, respect cherish, hold on to, have fallen to the way side. Damn, sent them to Catholic school too. Guess they forgot the lessons about forgiveness (like for what who knows) and love and honoring the parents.
I have to own that I allowed them to cross the line, I guess I was more of a friend than a parent, guess I didn't demand or command, but they never did with out. They both knew they were wanted and loved, I guess they figure they can do what ever, and I'll roll over, but not this time. Guess I am taking a stand, that I did do enough, can't turn back the clock, did the best I had in my pocket, and what I tried to learn.
I screwed up so far, that I used to get them something to celebrate mothers day, since with out them I wouldn't be a mom. I haven't even gotten a card in the last 2 years. Its the old give and give thing, ya know, well har har har the well ran dry, and that is when our relations went to hell over money, I asked her to pay me back for a $60 hat she had to have one year when it was spelled out that she was borrowing the money, how dare I say those things to her, that was in 99, and its been down hill ever since.well she got the last word. I just wonder when dad is going to get tired of paying for their whims, maybe never, I hear they have a trust fund set up. So, now I just wonder how long before I do hear, and what will be the cause for the break in silence. Its killing me, in some ways, in others I am really incompletely complete, does that make sense? I now see the years of manipulation and lies, they worked me, they used me, I never taught them how to give.

December 28, 2001
12:44 pm
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pam g fu
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you know how your kids, your mom, etc. can just forget that you are even here and not wonder how you are doing, it you have enough to eat, etc. what must go through their minds if anything but selfishness.

December 28, 2001
1:31 pm
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scherza
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Molly.... I have read and reread your submission and wish like hell that I had a mom like you. I'll bet you are a lot of fun when you aren't embroiled in suffering....

This may seem really funny and sick, but I even once thought about taking out a personal ad for a mom. "Wanted: Intelligent aging hippie free-thinker that forgot to have kids and wants one now...must have basic shit together. Perfection not required. Me: I basically have my shit together...more financially secure than emotionally secure...but I actually do pretty good in the emotional department...in spite of myself. I am spiritual and sensitive...and I have a really good relationship with my own daughter...in spite of myself....:)"

I have actually found many "moms" in my life, but they all have other children and other lives...and I will never mean as much to them as their own kids do...and I wouldn't want to change that. I have to accept that my imaginary mom has never been and will never be a real person. The mom I have had for the last 33 years is a goddess...and I feel her spiritual presence with the full moon. I have to sit still and shut up a while to hear what she tells me. She gave me the insights needed to transcend myself in spite of the messed up world around me...she tells me things...like "your mother needs a mother more than you do right now...and you don't have much time left with her...and your father is the same...it is your turn now to carry Life's Torch...remember that you are creating the basis for your Life's stories with what you pass on to your daughter...when she then carries the torch...."

Molly, I am sending you a huge pile of positive energy right now. Your daughters will come back. They just need to grow up a while. Meanwhile, you embrace yourself in who you are...the perfection of your imperfections...and flower into the very best YOU that you can be.

I have a couple of friends that are slightly over 50 that have really begun to flourish for the first time in their lives...and it is comical to see their magic in the face of the life around them...and the fear in their eyes of their husbands...that they won't be able to keep up with their powerfully positive changes...and yet it is them that they drag to all of the ceremonies that honor them in one way or another. Be the mom/woman/goddess you KNOW you are inside...so much that they are jealous of losing you.....:) Right now your grief is clouding this Light in you...use the sadness as momentum...to hurl you into a different and better existence.... I can bet that they would become really jealous of the attention you get from others and come after you....

This is my prayer for you, Molly....

December 28, 2001
1:59 pm
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HEY??? I already adopted Molly as my Second momma, We can share though. Want to come to my cooking lessons? We can have a slumber party even.

December 28, 2001
3:53 pm
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scherza
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Slumber parties are such a BLAST! I still have them...and I am in my 40's!! [Mostly b/c my friends and I like to drink wine while talking story and telling our true confessions...and I know what people look like after they have had an accident due to drunk driving...and it is ugly....]

Molly is special, that is for sure. As an ethical Dianic pagan, I am very careful about where I send my energy...and I am sensing that Molly could use some right now...at least for comfort. I imagine her drowning in a tempestuous ocean...and being given the power to discover her own innate ability to calm that ocean with her own energy and to walk on it...to sort of steal a Christian metaphor.

So...you have adopted her, huh? Lucky you.

I have given up trying to adopt a mom. Having one wasn't meant to be for me...not in the physical sense, anyway. I have my goddess...I have to let her be enough for me.

I went to Mexico last summer and visited the altar of Ixchel in Cozumel.... I felt at home there...even though I am not Mexican. I love Mexico's people, though...and I can usually speak to them in their native language...depending on their accent and slang usage and education...because *my* education of many of their colloquialisms is lacking.... Ixchel is a Mayan goddess...and the name is the Mayan word for "Rainbow." I was so delighted to learn this because my Hippie name 33 years ago was Rainbow...because I was 7 years old...and loved making rainbows with the garden hose out back of the seafood restaurant that my mother's boyfriend worked at as a gulf coast chef. We were co-opted to the back parking lot all day in the east Texas heat...where hundreds of seashells were dumped and used as parking lot gravel. I found magic in these shells and the local jazz musicians called me Rainbow because of me and my garden hose habit. Ixchel is also the goddess of health and healing...and I am a trauma/intensive care nurse.

You meantioned cooking lessons. What kind of cooking do you do? I learned gulf coast seafood cooking from my mom's drunken Hippie boyfriend...a positive thing I enjoy today...from my harsh years of childhood. 🙂

December 28, 2001
4:57 pm
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You have such a beautiful description of things.

I can cook it if it comes with directions. I don't really like to cook, but it is kinda manditory since it is just me and my son.

I wish that I had girlfriends to have slumber parties with. I don't have any real girlfriends. Just one that I keep around so that I can say that I have a female friend. I secretely despise her though, and at the same time she does make good conversation. I have always longed for female companionship. I am not good at letting people into my reality.

December 28, 2001
5:18 pm
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pam g fu
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well ladies i know how to make homemade tortillas, anyone want to learn>? i also know how to make kolaches, i am part czech. a slummber party and cooking lessons sounds wonderful, when?

December 28, 2001
6:07 pm
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can do it at the tribal meeting in Vegas. can't wait!

December 28, 2001
7:06 pm
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Molly
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Gypsiegirl, Scherza, thank you both. Today was the first morning, since the day before Thanksgiving that I didn't use my 60 second pity pot time, doing good don't ya think. Had lunch with my sister, and every 15 minuets or so something came out about the girls, its like static in the back ground. I went to that place you described Scherza 2 years ago, real deep, deeper than even I could fathome, and as you can guess, this Scorpio can go to the core, it was I think a door mat moment with respect to them, the rug really got pulled out from under me. Things were headed in the right direction, and felt healed all the way up to 11/18, then the position their aunt put them in, where their character shined through, such a dissapointment. I gave them 21 days and no response, sorta expected the flack regarding Christmas. I know it is their lessons and their loss, I know what was, and yea, was that hippy mom, that was there. So, we give them life and their choice on how to live it. I am trying real hard to not be bitter, sad, or to angry, but they all have their moments. Sybil pointed out, just how selfish their father was on Christmas for not encouraging a call to mom, but I think I know where their stubborness comes from. I just know how hard is it is to tear down a wall once we build one and that is my fear. Sure they will get it, but I sure hope its sooner than later. this has given me great lessons on gratitude, what I do have, and lessons on being in the present, I can't redo the past, and can't predict the future, or worry about it. So, I am planning on having the most successful new year. I just sorta wish we could win the big lotto, be on tv, and see how long it takes for them to call, you know they would grovel, it would be so very hard to be humble, har har har. I think my Sybil is waiting for my power to return, so he can have that fear in his eye again, that is how he knows me, totally unreasonable, totally unpredictable, and almost always land on my feet. I need to figure out how to create that financial stability, think I really do have the emotional stuff controlled, but its time to break on through to the other side. Thank you again for your words they really do mean allot.

December 28, 2001
9:52 pm
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scherza
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You all are absolutely DELIGHTFUL!

Gypsygirl: Some people are very happy to have fewer friends. If this is not you, make it your New Years resolution to get more women into your life that you CAN let into your reality! 🙂 Figure out why you keep your only girl friend at arms length and either move on without her or let her in closer. Life is too short to not get what you need.

Tell me more about the tribal meeting in Vegas! ahaha

pam g fu: How DO you make tortillas from scratch? I really want to know....

Dearest Molly....I KNEW you were a Scorpio...! I don't know why. I think it is in the way we connect.... What is the significance of 11/18? Is it your birthday?

Glad to hear that you are perking up. I am still sending you positive energy...and it is a full moon tonight...on a warm clear winter Texas night....

I keep having this strong urge to meet all of you...but it is only because I love you all so much...and wish you so much happiness. I feel connected to you all....

Have a Blessed Evening...and cosmic cyberhugs to each of you....

January 3, 2002
2:25 pm
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Spare the rod, spoil the child. Damn, and I thought we were not supposed to beat them, but now I see how it works, ugh ugh, sorry artist, just like dogs, gotta prove who the head dog is .
Blondie when you get past this, and it takes a few days, you are going to feel free. Sorta like when you first had them all out of the house, you went he he, their 18 and its just about me now, but you still worried, called, looked for calls. Well no sireeee life goes on, no news is always good news, and until that person from your womb shows up on the door, your free. Do mother dogs recognize their litter after time, say a year or two??? har har har See we should have paid attention to them, the dogs that is.
yes 11/18 is the birthday, the little creeps actually drove half way down, and let me buy them lunch for my birthday. None the less it was a good time.

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