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MJ's Toxic Vent
February 3, 2006
1:55 pm
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mj
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Thanks TS! It works to start trusting oneself. I am learning that I know what is in my best interests and that when I listen, it is helping.

Thanks for being there for me!

February 3, 2006
2:18 pm
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garfield9547
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Hi MJ

What I can see is that you have grown allot the last 2 weeks.

You do not try to control, but do what you feel like doing.

I am still unsure if you are emotionally honest with yourself.

Did you come to the conclusion and exceptance that you are ok to share your husband with you mil.?

Just a though.

I am glad to be able to talk to you again.

I really missed you

Love
Garfield

February 4, 2006
4:21 pm
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mj
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Hi Garfield,
Thanks for your observations.
I will consider looking at your question of being emotionally honest with myself!

I know I can't change anyone but myself. I have to accept that others have rights as well. I am learning to accept the things I cannot change and trying to have courage to change what I can which is me.
Love to YOU

February 5, 2006
1:21 pm
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mj
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Garfield, May I ask you a question? What is emotionally Honest? I understand being honest with my feelings but not sure what you mean by being emotionally honest. Could you expand on this?

February 5, 2006
1:41 pm
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garfield9547
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In this case I would say being emotionally honest would be

1. I accompanied my hubby at his mom's home today. I washed walls and repotted some of her houseplants

Why did you do this??

To please your husband and MIL??

Or did you really want to do this???

You answer

Garfield

February 5, 2006
6:55 pm
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mj
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Ok, here is my answer.

I wanted to help my husband with him helping his mom. He does so much and seems stressed so I wanted to help him. I did it for him.

February 5, 2006
7:12 pm
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mj
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Yes, I really wanted to do this to help him. I love my husband. I admire that he loves his mom and wants to help her. What bothers me is that she treats me disrespectfully and some times I just can't handle being around her. I know my husband will always love and care about his mom. I care about him. I help him at times when I see him struggling. I enjoy his company when he is treating me respectfully.

February 6, 2006
12:10 pm
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mj
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I tested myself last night and accompanied hubby to rehab. I did this because I wanted to spend time with my hubby. I kept reminding myself not to expect to be treated kindly and just remember I could leave if I felt uncomfortable. She sent us home with her "highly soiled" laundry which my hubby takes to her home to launder. That made me giggle inside. I guess Shit Happens!

February 6, 2006
12:28 pm
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garfield9547
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MJ

You said:

Very Enlightening! It has helped me understand why I feel angry and off balanced. My husband, the Chosen Son and his mom are doing an unhealthy enmeshment dance and I see the toxicity of it and have for some time.

O.K.

And then you said:

I wanted to help my husband with him helping his mom. He does so much and seems stressed so I wanted to help him. I did it for him.

I am confused. Help!!!

Garfield

February 6, 2006
12:34 pm
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garfield9547
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MJ

Please ignore the previous post of mine. I am just confused about your situation

Love

Garfield

February 6, 2006
12:38 pm
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mj
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Ok....smiling. So anytime I help my husband help his mom I am enabling?

I truly enjoy spending time with my hubby. Unfortunately, he seems to want more each time I am with him. Yesterday the sun was shining and he suggested we go for a drive. We went so he could bid a job. Then we asks me to lunch and then suggests we go shopping. I was thouroughly enjoying myself until he says "Now you need to get a job to pay for all of this". So then I reward him by accompanying him to visit his mom. It is confusing isn't it. So is this why you think I am not being emotionally honest. I have never heard that term before.

February 6, 2006
12:40 pm
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mj
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Oh...posting before I knew you wanted me to ignore. 😉

What's up with that? You've done it twice on this thread. YOU ARE IMPORTANT! I am Too! Thanks for helping me think this thru!

February 7, 2006
6:09 am
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garfield9547
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MJ

Sorry, after I posted and re read the post I though I should not have. I do not know why.
I felt like maybe I said something I should not have and that I was confused so whats the point to try to help here if I am not clear and still trying to wrap my mind around the whole thing.

Sorry Mj

Garfield

February 7, 2006
9:50 am
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exoticflower
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Oh, MJ, the mind boggled here when I read about the shopping trip. What a hurtful mixed signal, I can see where you would be left feeling ashamed and confused, what else could a comment like that be meant to induce?

Somewhere here is a wonderflu thread from Angel4u about how to respond to verbal abuse, like the sort that people just use to manipulate or hurt in the course of their regular communication. Which is not calloing your hubby a big bad abuser, but saying that in this instance I think I saw that he was really using some abusive communication with you. I'm going to pull up the thread for you to have a peek at--maybe if you have some verbal and emotional responses for that under your belt you can head it off BEFORE it eats away at you or really gets in your head and you're left out of mommy dearests guest book? Just a thought, one angle to explore.

It does definately sound to me like you are 'detoxing' though, good for you!

February 7, 2006
10:00 am
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mj
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Garfield, Thanks for trying to express what you were feeling. Never need to apologize for asking questions! Thanks for sharing with me.

Hey Exotic! I guess I did get out all that toxic venon. It helps to just be honest sometimes about what I am feeling. Thanks for your suggestion and support.

February 7, 2006
12:51 pm
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mj
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Ok now....Vent time 🙂

I decided that I needed to communicate with hubby and turned immediately into him raising his voice. I asked him not to yell at me. I am thankful for time to calm down and read that I don't have to accept inappropriate behavior.

What got resolved from our discussion is that he will back off of telling me how to work my business and accept that is what I want to do. He will not make me buy coffee beans because of price and that I can eat the type of bread I like. I guess that's progress.

I told him I wasn't happy with how our relationship had been that I didn't feel like working on it anymore. I was ready to leave because I cherish myself enough to know that this situation is feeling very unhealthy.

He is meeting his mom to go over with the Atty. her old trust. I told him that I didn't understand why I wasn't allowed in any of this. I told him that we are married. I feel excluded when I am not included. I told him that I felt like he and his mom had the marriage. I am quite confused myself about all of this. Her trust has been in existence since 89 and now she needs it reviewed. My husband states its not his business either never having seen it but she wants him there. If they weren't so entwined and I feeling like the mistress instead of the wife, I wouldn't feel hurt.

February 7, 2006
1:31 pm
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tracylyn
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Ahhh MJ ~

You seem to be on a roller coaster.

Let me ask you this - in the same sense of Garfields thoughts....

When you accompany your husband to do things for his mother for him...are you taking away from yourself? Are you giving too much? When does he in turn give back to you? Of course helping him feels good and it seems the nice thing to do, but is it giving away your power, your energies and you - to be with him? To please him? Is there anything else you wanted to do? Or enjoyed doing instead of accompaning him?

I just see you giving a lot of yourself and letting go of things you feel in order to spend time with him. Does he do this for you? Is he willing to put down his needs to help you too? I'm not saying he doesn't...I'm asking in hopes to provoke thought in you.

This is a dance you've done a lot with him. Whether it be with his mother or something else. Why is it that it seems that you are fighting for his attention or understanding.

Are you looking towards him too much? Are you putting your happiness in his hands? Or are you taking control of you and your life?

Again MJ ~ you know I wouldn't ask all this unless I was worried about you. This roller coaster isn't good for you. I think the term "emotionally honest" can be described as really feeling what you feel and allowing yourself to feel it without making excusing as to why you shouldn't feel or talking yourself out of it. Does that make sense?

Lots of love to you MJ.

t

February 7, 2006
2:14 pm
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garfield9547
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Tracylyn

Thanks sooo much for this reply. I am not english and really struggled to say what you said.

You have the words right in place.

Mj, Tracylyn gave excellent advice here. She got to grasp this whole sittuation.

thanks again

and love to both of you

(((((garfield)))))

February 7, 2006
5:23 pm
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angel1
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Hey mj..so this is were you've been..you goin through some stuff..huh..me too..
We'll get past it..one day at a time..
Glad to know your here..a good friend to me..keep coming back..Angel1

February 7, 2006
6:13 pm
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mj
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Thanks Angel! I didn't mean to ignore your thread but I am glad that you have such wisdom to share today! Just got back from my Coda meeting and lunch with my hubby. He called me after my meeting and wanting to take me for a quick burger. We ate it looking at the ocean and he shared what had happened today with his mom and the atty. I feel really drained.
Thanks Angel for reminding me it is one day at a time....sometimes a moment at a time! Hope that you feel better soon. I am sorry to hear about your health problems.

Thanks Tracylyn for asking the questions. I will think about it and consider my answers thoughtfully. I appreciate your love and support. I know that my life is a roller coaster but today I felt alot better because I spoke up for myself courageously and feel like I was heard. Thanks for caring about me. I care about me too! I remember I day not long ago when I didn't even think I was worthy of caring so I have made progress.

I Love my Husband. I enjoy being with him. Lately, he is gone most of the time and when he is around he is so dang exhausted that he is zoned out in front of the tv or doing office work. I admire all that he gets accomplished in a day. I can't keep up with him lately. The cold and the stress really kicked my but. So when I went and helped him it was because I genuinely wanted to. I have compassion for what he is going through with his mom being ill and I know that he can do all of it alone but sometimes I just want to help. I don't think I have to do it now because I feel like I have a choice because of our history of fights over his mom. I feel like he is learning that I need space from her. I do have a big heart. I don't feel like I overdo for my husband. I feel like I am his equal. When he raises his voice or becomes demeaning that's when I have a problem. I don't deserve that. Today, he was respectful at lunch and patient and we got along great. I think my husband is giving to me. Sometimes he doesn't give me what I need and I have asked for anything and so he thinks hes giving me what I need. I feel frusturated by the fact that he doesn't have to be a caregiver to anyone. He is free to be his own person but that is up to him to decide for himself. I cannot change only I. I have to accept others for who they are. Somedays its easier.

I don't feel dependent on my husband for my emotional needs. I have friends that I can share with! Like YOU, and Others here. I have friends at my Coda meetings, and I have a sponsor who I can tell everything too!

I don't feel like my happiness lies in my husbands hands but my finances do and that I am trying to correct. I feel like if my husband would allow me to do what I feel is in my best interests then I wouldn't have so much conflict. I like being an equal. When I get off balanced is when I feel unempowered.

February 7, 2006
6:23 pm
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mj
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Tracylyn, Does it appear that I am fighting for his attention and understanding? I feel like at times I am. What does that mean? I know in my family of origin..... I did the same. Do I seem too needy? I don't feel needy. Thoughts?

Garfield,
What language do you speak? I admire you trying to write and communicate in a different language. I struggle with English Communication!

Love to YOU All and Thank YOU

February 7, 2006
7:47 pm
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tooscared
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MJ, glad that lunch today went better and that you felt heard this morning when you were telling your husband what you needed from him. Eating lunch looking out over the ocean sounds very wonderful and serene. Nothing like that here, although we have a nearby lake with restaurants on the edge. That is peaceful to me so maybe I need to go out there more often.

I don't think you are needy at all MJ. I think you know what your needs are and when you speak up and don't stuff those feelings then you feel stronger and better. That is good advice for me too. 🙂

Keep taking care of yourself MJ and know I am always here for you - good times and bad. Glad you spoke up today - you are WORTH it!!

Love, TS

February 8, 2006
7:54 am
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garfield9547
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Mj

My home language is Afrikaans.
My children is in a English school and speak both languages.

I have improved a lot over the last 2 years, but sometimes just cannot get the right word or expression.

Thanks

((Garfield))

February 8, 2006
4:08 pm
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tracylyn
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Ohh MJ - no, no, I don't think you seem needy at all.

You sound very strong in your devotion to yourself. Sometimes I sense you waiver. I think I felt that way based on your roller coaster. One post you are madder than hell at his relationship with his mom and the next you are accepting of it and even sympathetic to what he's going thru.

Don't get me wrong - I'm on the front seat of that roller coaster with my relationship and I know that the first posts come from true anger in the heat of the moment. As things calm then you evaluate it and make decisions that you feel are best for you. I was just hoping to ask some questions to spark some thought to help you.

I think the dialog here from you is great and a good tool to reread to see how you felt when this started.

Just always be sure to take care of you.

((((mj)))))

t

February 9, 2006
11:47 am
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mj
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Thanks! It does help me for you to pose questions because then I contemplate if I am not expressing my needs or just reacting. Thanks for your input! Love and Hugs!

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