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Men are just human beings.
April 15, 2004
1:39 pm
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artist 2
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And have faults just like me... and can hate and love just like me... Issues with my dad and seeing for the first time his real person has disappointed me.

Can anyone identify?

April 15, 2004
2:18 pm
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why me 32
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Ever see Jerry MacGuire?

"Men are the enemy...but I love the enemy."

My dad is a very loving and caring man, but my husband is the total opposite. What a disappointment, in the most tragic way. We can never know what is really in a person's heart until it shows itself by their actions. I can identify, but I have to keep in mind that nobody's perfect.

April 22, 2004
4:54 am
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lewis
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apparently

women follow men because they see God in them

April 22, 2004
5:09 am
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I was always Daddys little girl and he was my hero...until I was old enough to learn what an alcoholic is and as the years went by, I lost more and more respect for him. He was a brilliant man, a professor of latin and humanities, a professional musician (piano) and I loved him dearly except I didn't get too much of a chance to really get to know him as an adult. He was diagnosed with alzheimers disease at the age of 58 and died at 69, just 4 years ago this past Christmas. I forgive my father and I know he loved me so very much as I did him. Make peace while there is still time so you have no regrets.

April 22, 2004
5:40 am
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Miffy
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How does that work Lewis - do men see god in men?

April 22, 2004
9:22 am
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NancyW
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Lewis, How very, very sad, but often times true. In the past, I have worshipped men, hoping for relief from the painful, obsessive need for approval and unconditional love from my alcoholic father. I'm thankful that I finally found my true Father, God. Now, I only crave His approval, and try to live His way. Of course, I will never be perfect, but knowing I'm making progress makes me feel good and approved of.

April 22, 2004
10:00 am
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lewis
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i have no idea how that works, because i didn't write it - its from the bible. i suppose thats the womens role in a 'perfect' world.

what do men see in men - oh come on - men always prefer to be with men!

my dad told me that women see God in Men, & thats why they follow etc, & i said, 'and thats why i'm still single, i can't find God in any of the men I meet today!'

my Dad agreed.

: )))

April 22, 2004
10:57 am
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artist 2
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NancyW thanks for the insight. I think I have too worshiped men, blind to their faults - or refusing to acknowledge their faults - because of my dire need to get their acknowledgement of me, of my person. My dad, growing up, was withdrawal and escape from life. I don't think he ever really saw me.

I think what the Bible refers to is that men are supposed to be the church and lead women to God. That part of their duty as husbands is to give guidance to women, because supposedly they are more like God. The idea of which I think is complete crank. I those days, they had just only begun to think about who the spirit is inside a human being. Men from the start had a leg up on education and writing, reading, literature, etc. I think that's why a lot of what's in the Bible is so male slanted. It wouldn't be accepted today.

April 23, 2004
10:12 am
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lewis
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artist2 - i agree the bible is historically specific - but it does have some good teachings.

anyways there is always another saying, 'for our father's sins'

blokes hey!

April 23, 2004
1:56 pm
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Women see "god" in men? hmmmmmm....
Sometimes I have trouble seeing "good" in them! ;)...but i have trouble seeing good in myself, so there in lies the problem... no other person can make up for that gap.

Too often we expect others to come along and "fix" our lives. I wonder how many men have this Cinderella complex in another way?

April 23, 2004
2:00 pm
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Anonymous
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I see 'god' in everything around me. Nothing and no one has more intrinsic value than anyone or anything else.

I have lots of opinions about the Bible and the men who have re-written it over and over and over.

Ren'ai

April 24, 2004
10:36 am
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slowlearner
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mzerlla, my ex told me that my life was in so much of a mess,what he wanted to fix it,like a Night on a white horse....hmmm, he sure FIXED it alright. NOT. What he did do was ensure that I felt guilty for spending time with my family, pointed out every error of my children's way, which made me feel guilty as well. The list goes on and on. So I guess that is another thing I learnt in that relationship... Some men do have the Cinderella comples in the male perspective.

April 24, 2004
11:53 pm
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NancyW
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I hear you, Slowlearner. I wanted to badly to believe that someone could FIX my unhappiness. He only made it worse. And to be fair, some female friends aren't all that helping either. I decided I'd better do it for myself, with a little guidance from truly trustworthy friends. After awhile, it gets easier to see who is safe and who isn't.

April 25, 2004
7:45 am
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lightoflove
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I also see God in everything. It is when you meet a man and he thinks he is god. That is when the red flags should come up with big bold letters reading NARCSISSIST!!!!!!

Hugs

Light

April 25, 2004
8:43 am
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slowlearner
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How can you tell in who is safe and who isn't?

April 25, 2004
2:16 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Men are Human Beings. Women are Human Beings. Children are Human Beings.

But are we "just" Human Beings? And if we are more than "just" Human Beings then what can we mean by that?

Some people believe in the existence of God. They may be right.

Some of those people believe that Human Beings are created by God and also share qualitites with God. They may be right.

Some of those people believe that God is everywhere including Human Beings. And they may be right.

April 25, 2004
2:26 pm
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Worried_Dad
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To restate Lewis

Some women follow men.

Some women who follow men do so because they "see God" in the man they are following.

We need to define "follow."

We also need to define "See God."

Let's start with the Seeing of God in someone.

Many people would argue that to "see God" anywhere or in anybody is proof of mental illness, because "everybody" knows that there is no such thing as God. They may be right.

Or, a woman may "follow" a man because she thinks of "God" as being "Good" and sees the "good" in the man she is following.

Or perhaps Lewis is trying to say that some women are following a man who they have MISTAKEN for God. That would be a terrible mistake, wouldn't it?

April 25, 2004
2:34 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Other women may "follow" a man because they have a rich and detailed sexual fantasy about that man and also have bizarre ideas about how that fantasy might be fulfilled.

She might be determined to fulfill that sexual fantasy whether or not the man agrees, no matter how much he refuses to indulge her. She might want to know where is, what he is doing and who he is seeing at all times.

She realizes that if she just phones or shows up unexpectedly that the man will have to react and respond which will tend to alienate his horrified friends and lead to his isolation from social resources. That might make the next phase of her plan easier. And so she "follows" him.

My experience is that women who "follow" me are dangerous.

It's called stalking.

April 25, 2004
3:16 pm
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Hi twinks.

I am not trying to say who may be "right" or who may be mistaken.

I am actually just trying to point out that Lewis' post implies and is in the process of spawning many questions. There are many different "filters" to answer the implied questions.

I am pretty certain that I am "not God." And I may be right. Or not.

That is a different question than "do I contain some of the quality or identity of 'God'if said deity actually exists?"

And that is a different question than "Is this woman 'following' me because she 'sees the God' in me?"

Which is a different question than

April 25, 2004
8:26 pm
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annastar
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O.k, W.D, you just being busted on a board, talking to other women, while you have posts I am awaiting whole day for you to answer! Are you ignoring me?!!   
O.k, we are not playing this game- if I missing to be ignored, I can just write long e-mail to my lovely bf and be ignored right away. WD, I am talking about “Another woman” tread. It is o.k if you don’t feel like talking about it- just making sure- you will tell me more at some point. Now- about rich and detailed sexual fantasy- look who’s talking! I have a feeling- you are talking from your own experience. It is interesting topic. But you will have to start special tread and ask, if you want us to talk about fantasies! (Don’t want to risk being rejected!)

Not sure I understand what you wrote here:
She realizes that if she just phones or shows up unexpectedly that the man will have to react and respond which will tend to alienate his horrified friends and lead to his isolation from social resources. That might make the next phase of her plan easier. And so she "follows" him. Please, explain.

I would also like to talk about this phenomenon:
“My experience is that women who "follow" me are dangerous.”
This is interesting one because I think- this is what my “dearest” thinking, same time- he set me up to act this way, because he would not respond on anything else. He had been asking for constant attention, looking for opportunity to put me in stupid situation. Like- if you just say- “Call me after 5”- he would not call. So you have to talk like this “Would you, please, if it not difficult for you, when you will have chance, do for me a big favor to call me any time you like- by the way- I’ll be home after 5”. And then he would still not call. My first reaction would be to call and ask what is going on, which would give him opportunity to hang up on me, saying “I’m busy”. Which sure leave me with open question I was expecting to talk about in a first place, which means- I will have to call tomorrow…Hay- you know how it work! After a wile I realized- it just a game we playing. I can play it or not. I wish- we can talk as normal people, but- Can we?

April 26, 2004
12:05 am
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NancyW
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Slowlearner,
Unsafe people are negative and evoke negative feelings in you. Some how, around these people, you feel like you aren't good enough, worthy enough. They make unrealistic demands on you, your time, your privacy. When you're around them too long, you start to feel disrespected, misunderstood, confused and frustrated. Somehow, you end up feeling RESPONSIBLE for their happiness and comfort, which of course, you will never be able to provide for them.

Safe people know their happiness and comfort is THEIR responsibility. They respect the rights of others. They don't take their anger out on the world when they have a problem. When they say they are going to do something, you can trust they will follow through.

April 26, 2004
4:38 am
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lewis
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i didn't actually create this thread - i think it was artist2 - i brought it back up from the bottom of the pile. : ) don't want take credit for somebody elese's thread? : ))

anyways - Mzrella - 'cinderlla Complex' damn true - perhaps blokes don't suffer from this because they haven;t been socially forced fed with it!

WD - i know somebody who ' wants to know where he is' 'what he is doing' & 'who he is with at all times'. I'd never considered her to be following her man. I thought she was trying to control him?

Twinks - god did,t want people to feel so lost & confused, we have done that to ourselves, because we have complicated everything down here ourselves.

take care all : ))

April 26, 2004
9:22 am
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Twinks,

I don't believe it is God's will for us to suffer, nor does He create the sufferers. We do that ourselves through Free Will. We have our own minds, it's up to us to change our minds, our beliefs and our actions to live in a way that feels peaceful to us. God wants us to feel peaceful. He makes suffering hurt so we stop doing the action. It's also up to the abuser to stop their actions, not us. If they don't stop, we get ourselves out of the situation - causing relief. God "allows" us to do what ever we want, but like children, we pay the consequence. If we choose "good" actions we feel happy. If we choose "bad" actions, we suffer.

April 26, 2004
9:37 am
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eve
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We all too often don't allow somebody to "just" be a human being. Not us, not our parents or our spouses.

A lot of hurt comes from that, because even if idolization might seem flattering - its dehumanizing nevertheless. Kind of controlling and manipulating, really.

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