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Men are all cheaters. HAH.
March 19, 2005
12:18 pm
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GullyFoyle
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bonita1 - I always find it interesting that peole bring up Ted Bundy and his porn addiction as an indicator or his sickness. Yes, he talked about looking at porn and how the devil made him do the awful things he did. But then he had to say that, didn't he? Or else no one would listen to him.

When they arrested him in Florida (I think) the last time, after his escape from Utah, they found piles and piles of porn magazines in the back seat of his car. The really nasty kind, the kind that you can buy in any store in the US. They were cheerleader magazines. You know, a magazine made for all the cheerleaders and drill team clubs from grade school to college. They had articles on routines and contests and how to be a better cheerleader and pictures of cheerleading outfits and stuff. No nudity or sex. THAT was Ted Bundy's pornography.

I will leave the "addicts are weak" dicussion for another post.

Gully

March 19, 2005
1:38 pm
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GullyFoyle
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Re-reading the posts and I have to say -

Can't we all learn to just get along?

Just kidding. But I have to say that for the most part, this is still a safe place to look at our own personal issues.

I, for one, get rather hot and wish to respond agressively when someone says that addicts are weak. So I think it is good that someone on this site says that. It gives me a chance to look at my thought processes and my reactions.

I like to think that I am learning to Act, not React. Slow process, to be sure.

However, I don't see any reason to run away from addressing these issues here. I understand the need to take a break from them, but I think the mere fact that someone needs to leave is an indicator of either how the issue affects them and of course, the high levels of stress that everyone here has, due to their personal issues.

I think that it is okay to talk about it here. For the most part, it is safe, though I have had my moments. That was a reflection of my stress level, as well.

Do I think that it is okay to be agressive to another here at this site? Maybe. I have done it, so I thought, only to realize that I was really being angry at myself and at circumstances that I have no control over. In real life, I may not have been able to see that.

So let me put it this way. All of us on this site have sinned. Does that bother anyone? Okay, let's rephrase: All of us on this site have engaged in unethical behaviour. Is that better? From my viewpoint, they are both the same statement. Yeah, I know, there are differences, but still, isn't it the context of what we are saying the important thing, not our own personal view of the world and the ramifications of our actions. If I feel that I do something wrong and will be reincarnated as a lower life form, to a large degree, the same as one who believes that the unrepentant simmer goes to hell.

I hope I am making sense.

It's interesting because a lot of times, everyone is agreeing with what the other is saying, they just aren't hearing it. Our filters protect us, but they also get in the way of communication. I have learned a lot about myself on this site, simply by writing out my thoughts and then re-reading them. It makes me look at it and sometimes, I am terribly wrong. Or sometimes I am magnificiently right! But I wouldn't come to that point with ALL of you here and posting.

Sorry this was such a long post. The coffee is finally kicking in.

Hope everyone has a good day.

Gully

March 19, 2005
1:55 pm
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GullyFoyle
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Coffee kicking in, hence the words left out of sentences.

-If I feel that I do something wrong and will be reincarnated as a lower life form, "isn't that the same," to a large degree, the same as one who believes that the unrepentant simmer goes to hell.-

-But I wouldn't come to that point "without" ALL of you here and posting.-

Hee-Hee. Communication. It's funny how a typo or a word left out can change the whole meaning of what you are trying to say. No wonder I don't always make sense.

Gully

March 19, 2005
2:40 pm
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jamaicanwife
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Interesting. Peacesoul and Angel4u used two words that are triggers for me - weak and bad. So I will not post in the heat of the moment, I will take a moment to process, and then I will be able to think, and act, not just react. Progress at last!

March 19, 2005
2:41 pm
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GullyFoyle
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There you go! Same thing happened to me.

March 19, 2005
2:44 pm
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Worried_Dad
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bonita1,

I'm curious about your story. I've never heard of porn destroying a family before and I'm not sure how that could work.

In other words, Im not convinced that "porn" has ever destroyed anything, ever.

The problem with your ex was not that he was into porn. The problem was that he was a child molester.

Ted Bundy's problem was not that he was into porn. The problem with him was that he was a psychopath.

Claigula Caeser, Vlad the Impaler, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, George Bush Sr., all monsters who were probably not that much into porn.

I do agree with you that a person can use porn as a distraction from developing actual human realtionships, but television tends to do that anyway.

March 19, 2005
2:51 pm
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jamaicanwife
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Okay, now I'm ready.

I grew up with a strong father. He helped raise 6 brothers and sisters, and I'm not sure he ever finished high school.

His mother had 4 children (my father and three siblings)for the rich man down the road, and this man never acknowledged any of them. No money, nothing. Then she went on to have three children with a man who eventually shot her in her own living room whil her eldest son (my father at seventeen) tried to wrestle the gun from his hands. He failed, and then all 7 children watched as the man who had murdered their mother shot himself in the face. He's still alive and well, I met him, twisted face and all.

My father is regarded by his brothers and sisters as close to a god. I don't think they ever believed my mother that he beat the living s*** out of her until I was 10. And if they did believe her, I'm sure they thought it was her own fault. He was so strong, that he refused to go to counselling.

I have to stop now, will finish later.

March 19, 2005
3:07 pm
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peacesoul
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angel4U....My mom is so strong and a great women and thanks for saying I am too.
I still have lots of work to do on myself but that is the key word "work".
I am not hiding behind the "disease" therory.
I am a co addict, no question, but it was my choice to choose a destructive partner.

I also think I can show those who behave badly that there is a better way. I am not an angel, I have done some very screwed up things in my life and had I stayed in the "well this is b/s of my disease" I would still be in my bad place.
I felt like shit, I was doing shit things, I took responsibility and made changes.

I am in NO WAY saying I am better, all I want to get across here is as long as "WE" co addicts or addict claim a disease has taken over us, we will NEVER heal....never !!!

March 19, 2005
3:15 pm
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angel4U
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Oh boy, I can see that we have touched on another topic - the interpretation of strong versus weakout - which is outside of the orginal "all men cheat" topic that Cici started. I am wondering if we should take this up on another thread since it really is a topic in and of itself.

Please know when I posted those words I was not judging anyone for being weak ... we are all human and have weaknesses. But when those weaknesses impact me or others (e.g. when I am lied to, abused, cheated on, etc.) it makes me damn angry!

jamacianwife - I find it sad that your dad is viewed as a strong man, and even more so that he does himself. I believe strength lies more within how we live life and treat others (with kindness, respect, etc.) moreso than what we do in life (raising 6 kids). Any man that can abuse a woman is weak (especially spiritually) in my book. It is too bad that the trauma he experienced had him (in my opinion) turn to using abusive means to cope and help him believe he is strong. And it is too bad he puts up such a front in front of others that they view him as strong. Abusers have a habit of being able to do that, and unfortunately is why he most likely will never see himself any other way and get the help that he needs to get spiritually whole again.

This has to be a very touchy subject for you as I see your pain in your writing. Again, if you want to start another thread to talk through it, I will join in when I can.

March 19, 2005
4:05 pm
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sewunique
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Wow everyone,

Touchy-feely triggers, yes. In me too. I dislike when absolutes are given as that is the only truth. A been feeling badly for the guys we all love here as part of our group. Just as I dislike opinions that all blondes are ditzes, redheads have firey hot tempers, etc.

But at least everyone has been pretty much cautious and caring on this thread, which can be darn hard. i see many of us have returned to continue to respond here. Good thread; makes one think and ponder and express.

Mr. Bush, hey? Things haven't gotten any better, yet. Imagine having that opinion and moving into a State with another family member running this state? All I can do is shake my head, until I can become involved again to make some impact. Totally agree, just MY opinion.

Another thing, judging words using "good, bad, weak, strong" ....cannot the same be said about any of us for being co dependent??? Ahemmmmm. Lesson learned.

March 19, 2005
9:16 pm
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ron9871
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i take offense on u saying men are all cheeters ie pond scum i have never cheated on a gal i was seeing cousrs ive been fucked over by plenty of women in my life real cold hearted bitches so dont be so generalized with your coments about men honey gals coa be just as routhless as the men u seek out !!!!!!!!!

March 19, 2005
9:45 pm
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sewunique
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Just passing by and this thread title; superlatives, ug!

March 19, 2005
10:17 pm
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bonita1
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********Triggers****** Triggers*****

First of all, a disclaimer: There might be triggers on this post for those who have been sexually abused so you might want to skip this.

WD,

I question the truth behind the statement: "porn has never destroyed anyone?" I think of the time when I heard, on a radio news story, a young child screaming in pain and terror as she was being raped in front of a camera filming of kiddie porn? This news segment was played over and over all day and it never got any easier to hear, I just had to turn it off.

I think of adult porn "stars" who have gotten HIV/AIDS and now there is a demand for mandatory condom use in addition to HIV testing to be used in the "adult entertainment" industry.*

Gully,

That's really interesting about Ted Bundy's porn. If you could point me to the site or source where you read that info, I sure would appreciate it. I did a search and found a transcript of his final interview with Dr. J.C. Dobson of Focus on the Family. It was an interesting read. Ted Bundy said,

"As a young boy of 12 or 13, I encountered, outside the home, in the local grocery and drug stores, soft core pornography. Young boys explore the sideways and byways of their neighborhoods, and in our neighborhood, people would dump the garbage. From time to time, we would come across books of a harder nature - more graphic. This also included detective magazines, etc., and I want to emphasize this. The most damaging kind of pornography - and I'm talking from hard, real, personal experience - is that that involves violence and sexual violence. The wedding of those two forces - as I know only too well - brings about behavior that is too terrible to describe." * This doesn't sound like cheerleading mags?

Thanks, Bonita

Sources-
*1. LA adult film industry resumes production in wake of HIV scare, Associated Press - Tuesday, May 18, 2004,
*2. Overseas shoots threaten porn stars' health: Actor Darren James contracted HIV while filming in Brazil, The Associated Press Updated: 6:45 p.m. ET April 21, 2004
*3. State, County May Require Condoms in Adult Films, Los Angeles Times - April 20, 2004, Lisa Richardson and Caitlin Liu, Times Staff Writers

*4. Fatal Addiction/ Ted Bundy’s Final Story, by Ted Bundy & Dr. James Dobson (Video) Jan. 1989

March 19, 2005
10:57 pm
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GullyFoyle
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The title of the book is called Hunting Humans. I can't remember the author. He was an anthropologist that would do case studies for law enforcement. He was talking about the ability of the serial killer, of Bundy's type, to manipulate everyone. It was stated as a kind of program that would run in the minds of these monsters. The final part of the program is where they must show the world what they did and how they did it. And the world is more than happy to accomidate. The fact of the cheerleading magazines was taken from the police inventory of the car when he was caught.

Side point about the "program". Bundy's program ended in Utah. If you didn't know that Bundy had murdered the women in Gainesville, FL, you wouldn't have made the connection. That is due to reasons explained in the book. It is an interesting read from an anthropological viewpoint, other than the usual psychological.

My memory isn't perfect, but I am sure that I remember that from the book. Read it in 1986 or 87.

I remember the Dobson interview. Didn't watch it. Not interested. My feeling was that Dobson played right into his hands.

In the same book, he mentions how Berkowitz, the Son of Sam killer, recanted his admission to his Psychiatrist years after he was sent to the mental hospital. Said the dog never talked to him. He killed those people because he wanted to and because he could. At least, I think it was in that book.

Why would the BTK Killer (is that right?) start sending letters when he knew that now, with all the DNA testing and better investigatory techniques, he would get caught? So he could get caught.

These aren't humans like we think. Serial killers are not people who kill. They are monsters that prey on humans.

March 19, 2005
11:02 pm
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GullyFoyle
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Oops, I should say the American title is Hunting Humans. It is a Canadian publication, or something like that. The author is a Canadian Anthropologist. I can't remember the Canadian title.

Gully

March 19, 2005
11:06 pm
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bonita1
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Gully,
Please read the new thread I posted on The sexual criminal’s relationship to porn. There's some interesting info I wanted to share with you.

-- Bonita

March 20, 2005
10:23 am
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Alegab
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Angel4u- Thank you for responding to me personally on the thread that I usually post. You have no idea how you good you made me feel. I responded to you there. I hope you get a chance to read it.

Thank you for listening and posting your thoughts.

God Bless You.

Alegab

March 20, 2005
5:33 pm
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SweetAmanda
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porn does hurt people

March 20, 2005
5:39 pm
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angel4U
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Amanda/all,

There is more about the issue of porn on "What is Addiction?" thread if anyone's interested.

March 21, 2005
3:05 pm
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shyshy
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I never could understand how people could cheat on someone they loved and thought I could never do that till I cheated on my boyfriend. I was feeling neglected, unloved and kicked to the curb and being with someone else was my way of medicating my depression. So why didn't I just leave him? I didn't want to be alone.

Bottom line was I didn't love him and because he was treating me the way he was I knew he didn't love me and thought the relationship would go nowhere so who cares. We were both just in it because we didn't want to be alone. Things turned around though and he's changed. He's finally treating me like I should be treated and there's a spark of hope that maybe this will go somwhere and my love for him is growing. Would I cheat on him now? No, I'm getting what I need from him and have no desire for anyone else.

My point is that while there are still those men/women that will cheat no matter what I think most cheat because something in the relationship is missing. It doesn't make it right, but that's the reality of it and because of that I don't believe in the "once a cheater, always a cheater"

March 21, 2005
3:22 pm
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carbuff
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shyshy

My wife has cheated on me a number of times and has denied it over and over. We are now seperated and after 4 months have been seeing each other again. We are now having a sexual relationship again and the sex is great. It was ok before but not like this. She mentioned the other night how different I am now, more relaxed, etc. What you wrote sounded like she could have wrote it. That still does not heal the wounds I have and get the trust back. How would you reccommend I deal with this? I would like to talk about it in counseling. I have brought it up before but again she would not admit it so bringing it up again may be a mute point. What do you think?

March 21, 2005
3:34 pm
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peacesoul
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Carbuff.....You say she cheated on you a number of times. That is not cheating because you were not giving her something, that is cheating b/c she has some major issues.

I took my ex back after he cheated on me MANY times and let me tell you what I've learned. His cheating had nothing to do with me and our relationship, it had to do with his lack of self esteem and other deep seeded issues. Trying to regain trust in my ex was not impossible, it was TOTALLY impossible.
Working on trust issues is the worst torture I've ever expereinced.

How should you deal with this you ask. RUN..run for the hills. You are going to get hurt my friend.
The fact that she refuses to talk about it shows she has no remorse and does not want to face the shame. My ex did the same, every time I wanted to talk about it, he would go mute.

I am finally away from him and feel sane again

be cautious my friend....good luck with that !

March 21, 2005
3:50 pm
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chickyfighter
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I have a question if I knew he was dating other epopel from the beginning, and that he was not "ready for a relationship" does that not classify as cheating? He is so big onthis, and I just think it is so unfair b/c I have been nothing but faithful to him and I expect the same back. I am so close to going back to him, I am crazy, I know, please stop me, somone make me think rationally again!!!(I am literally dying iside, it feels so cold w/o him).

March 21, 2005
4:22 pm
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orangeboy
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just wanna chime in that i have never cheated on someone and i never would. i'm generally considered to be pretty foxy, and have actually turned down more than one opportunity to cheat, even in instances where the person i was seeing encouraged me to kiss someone else with her knowledge of it, because i am an extremely loyal person. i have been cheated on by more than one woman and it's awful. perhaps the 0.5% are the same ones that come here. or maybe it's somewhat true that once someone's been cheated on, it's a bit more difficult to instigate that sort of pain in someone else. i've known a few people though that have been able to navigate "non-monogamous" or "polyamorous" relationships, and i do think that that works for some people, not everyone, definitely not me, but i do believe that there are ways to be open and honest with partners and to have multiple relationships. how is beyond me, but i have seen it work. sorry you're hurting cici, dishonest people, whatever form they come in, suck.

March 21, 2005
4:31 pm
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angel4U
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Chickyfighter,

RE: "I have a question if I knew he was dating other epopel from the beginning, and that he was not "ready for a relationship" does that not classify as cheating?"

If he was open and honest with you about this, and there was no commitment from him to your relationship, then my opinion is no, he did not cheat on you. To cheat, you need a commitment from both parties - and agreement that you are exclusive/monogamous.

Hang in there Chicky, you will be ok. I feel your pain and have added you to my prayer list. (((HUGS)))

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