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Married, Confused, Little bit heartbroken
January 31, 2004
8:22 pm
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Juanita
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I've been married 12 years to a wonderful man who says he adores me, and I believe him. (yes, we have kids) My problem is that once when discussing fantasties, he told me he'd like to watch me be with another man. How heartbroken I was... He has been my one and only since we met. It is rare that a man even catches my eye, let alone tempts me! I told him this. But, he persists, & asks about swinging with couples we are friends with. (Not! I love these people like family.) He asks how about the men I am friends with, and has named one in particular to join us. Gone even so far as to ask very distinct, sexually charged questions if this man has done this or that, and what would I do if....? Sure, fantasy is one thing. But, now all I do is fantasize about this friend of mine in an overly-friendly manner. I am so sad & confused. I've tried getting my friend out of my mind & I've asked my husband to stop this fantasy stuff... but all he says is that "if not so & so, then we'll find you another". I am at the point, I want to have sex with my friend. I haven't spoken to him about this though I wish I could. Even just to get this out in the air, to have a shoulder to lean on, to get a man's perspective.... I feel my self worth has gone down. Why aren't I enough? The few females I've talked to all say look at the silver lining... how many women have a husband who will let them sample other dishes off the "menu"? I fear a small portion of my heart has been torn. My husband doesn't understand how deeply I've been hurt. I'm not looking or thinking of leaving in any way. I just would like guidance on how to make the hurting and sadness go away, and how do I keep my friend a friend? Or, who knows, maybe I should sleep with him to get it over with! Didn't say I'd let hubby watch! Did I mention I get angry too sometimes? Help...

January 31, 2004
8:33 pm
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kierany
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January 31, 2004
8:38 pm
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kierany
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Hi Juanita
I have no answer to this but i hope you do what is best for you and you are in my prayers

God Bless

January 31, 2004
9:07 pm
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gingerleigh
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Hi Juanita. I understand how you feel. When I was still with my ex, he brought up that he wanted us to "swing" too. I was so hurt. I even went so far as to go the swinging websites with him. Things crumbled between us in the mean time, and we never did follow through on it, but it felt like I got kicked in the stomach, why wasn't I enough? He said he wanted to do this for me, so I could have the experience. But I didn't *want* the experience.

Anyway, I don't know what to tell you, other than do NOT do something you aren't comfortable with or feel right about. If "swinging" even with your husband's "permission" feels wrong to you, please don't do it. If on the other hand you think it would be a growing and giving thing between you, well, that is for you two to decide together. But my sense from you is that you are not ok with this, and maybe your attraction to your friend is growing just because of the pressure your husband is putting on you.

January 31, 2004
9:08 pm
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Zinnie
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HI Juanita,

I just read an article about this... let me see if I can find it when I get home. It was specifically about men saying this to their wives... and how UNTRUE it really is - actually I think the article said something like "men who tell their wives this after a long time just feel comfortable with them, and that is why they share that fantasy - if it really happened - the feel weird.

Z.

January 31, 2004
10:58 pm
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themis
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I don't know if this helps, but I'm reminded of what they say as the some of the behaviours of Coda's confusing sex with love. In my early years of marriage there were things that I considered that I would never consider today. The bench mark has always been.......so can God sit and watch? and if he can't I likely shouldn't be doing it. At the end of the day you have to like the gal in the glass.

February 1, 2004
2:50 pm
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sixfootblonde
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Themis. Wise words. I will remember your bench mark as it is very simple and yet says it all. Makes me look back and cringe. Kind of hushes the chatter around us and focuses matters. Seriously, thank you.

Juanita first of let me say I am sorry you are experiencing this. I feel like if it was me I would make a night where it was like a date night. Have a nice meal out, stroll down the street holding hands, sit somewhere and watch the sun go down and bring up how happy you are with the life the two of you have made. Gently but firmly I would explain that the talk about the friend was making me uncomfortable and that I was drawing a line there he would need to respect. That I didn't want anyone other than him and that wasn't likely to change. And then I would hold my ground, changing the subject when he started in on the details, kissing him so he couldn't talk, making it too silly to continue with. Refocusing him.

I guess I have to wonder if maybe he is jealous of you, particularly your friendship and has chosen this way to test the waters. Unwittingly perhaps (or maybe not) he's starting a self-fulfilling prophecy. Sounds to me like you are sure of yourself and your marriage just distracted and hurt right now. Don't lose sight of who you are, and where your boundaries lie. Remember, your needs and boundaries are perfectly ok for who you are. Your friend is dear to you and you wouldn't want to lose him right? Don't do something you will regret. Sounds to me like this will only generate more heartache.

I hope this will dissipate for you. I wish you the best of luck in dealing with this. Vent if you need to here, you're always welcome to come unload. There is lots of good advice here too.

February 1, 2004
7:11 pm
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Juanita
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Thank you all for your words. It helps to know their are souls out there who care without even knowing me. I have been dealing this this for many months now all by myself. I have even considered going to see a therapist about this. Questioning my self, my worth, and how I relate to this strange situation. This all started because I told my husband I wish I knew I was still attractive to other men. He jumped all over the comfort level that I have with my friend. (Believe it or not, it is very hard for me to open up and trust new friends) I have even questioned if it is my man who desires more, wanting me to "test" the waters before he dives in. Not 100% sure.... I'm sure he would if he got my ok, but until then??? hmmm. On one hand, my spouse can seem turned on by this fantasy talk. Other times, when I turn the tables on HIM and say "what if I DID?" what would you do?" The little green-eye of jealousy comes out a tiny bit. He admits to a love-hate feeling with this fantasy of his. He says so long as he can watch, he'll be ok (sheesh). I don't want to watch him do another woman! Men can separate sex & love so much easier it seems. It appears to me that they don't combine the two & see no problem in outward venturing. I am not this way. I already have deep feelings for my friend... Maybe too deep at this point after all this crazy torment. I know I love him to a degree... but not the same as I love my husband. It seems so weird... My friend is in a relationship too (I think I forgot to mention). He tells me she is all wrong for him, just like his ex-wife... I sit there with sympathy and words of "wisdom" (ha), and my insides scream at what he doesn't know. I try to quiet myself and tell myself if God wants us together, our time will come when it is meant to be (later). Love is patient, kind, and neverending right? So, what is 20 or 30 years in the mix of things? I can love both of them differently for now. Listen to me ramble! I have told my spouse I love him, and have even forbidden him to speak of this other man's name in any sexually charged way. My spouse will be good for a few weeks, and revert to his old ways... Feel like I'm on a roller coaster. Some days I handle it better than others, and I am glad I found you guys to vent to. I know what I am typing probably rambles, and jumps around, but that's how I feel inside. All I hope is that my friend doesn't get the hots for me, or I'm in big trouble! I can behave myself as long as it takes (that's what I keep telling myself). I have a family to keep together, and a looking glass with a reflection staring me in the face! Thank you for that pearl of wisdom. You are right, I have to like what I see. Can't please anyone if I don't please myself.... Now, can you tell me how to get the RMV to put a decent looking picture on my driver's license?? 🙂 Thank you...

February 1, 2004
7:23 pm
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Zinnie
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Hee hee - that is easy - just smile.

You sound like a beautiful person, you picture I'm sure is stunning.

Still looking for that article. I think I read it on-line last week in the Washington Post. I'll keep looking.

Z.

February 1, 2004
9:33 pm
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themis
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I have always loved what you have had to say also you envied tall blonde lol
We seem to have connected from the start. It certainly has been a roller coaster ........thanks for you input. I had been on one site once that when I clicked on the name .....i.e. sixfoot, it would show all the places in which you'd contributed. Gee that would be great to have here, don't you think?

February 1, 2004
9:56 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Juanita,

I have looked all over the place for that article on the Web and now I cannot find it. I'm also at work, and don't want to enter certain searches... so I will continue looking.

But, essentially the article said that men will request or voice this fantasy. However, the ending of the article said that ultimately it really does not happen because freaky sex is just that. Freaky.

Now, regarding your friend. You sound like you are actually in love with this guy - could this be your husbands way of seeing if you are having an affair? Something in the scenario is not sounding right. Sorry, just what I'm reading. You state that you are very happy, but then you also indicate that you are hoping that you and your friend will be together at some other time.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what it sounds like in re-reading your post.

Zinnie

February 2, 2004
7:07 am
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themis
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you know I was thinking the same thing............almost like he is insecure and he is testing you to try and feel safe.

February 2, 2004
12:53 pm
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Juanita
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Dear Zinnie - typing fast here on lunch break. Fast info I forgot to mention. My husband wanted us to try "swinging" when we first were married. I nipped that in the bud back then. Now, it re-surfaces. Probably my fault too... I was depressed after our latest baby & wished another man would find me attractive cuz you know your spouse's opinion in biased. I'd be attractive to him with guaccamoli on my face and cucumbers on my eyes! My friendship with this man only begun about 2 yrs ago & I had my full support of my spouse. We've only been in town a year at that time & looking for people w/common interests, during my pregnancy. This man fit so well into our family (our friends are considered family). What surprised us both (and yes, my husband spotted it faster than I) is how comfortable I was. Normally I take a while to warm up to someone. I am very comfortable with my friend. I could take my hubby's teasing at that point. He wanted to know if my friend had a friend for him & we could make a 4-some. (sheesh) I always said "stop that" "you're awful" etc. Thought nothing sexual about my friend until my husband put his face, figuratively inbetween ours one night in bed. (pretend, he says) No, not, nyet... Told spouse not to ever do that again. He has complied with that, but once a thought is put in your head, you wonder. We are very compatible & if things were different, yes, he is someone I could picture myself with for a long haul. I accept my feelings for him knowing the feelings for my husband are stronger. But imagine how I felt.. How can someone be told that their spouse is willing to share them and not feel dejected? I felt SO crushed I cannot begin to describe the feeling except an awful ACHE to my bones. When you feel that low, you look for "love" (for lack of a better word), and acceptance of who you are. It helped to think that someone MAY want me for their one and only and NOT want to share. My ego is still bruised. I haven't done anything improper with my friend & don't intend to. But when I get depressed, I still revert to the old thought pattern, "maybe he wouldn't want to share.../ why does my spouse?" I still don't understand how my hubby could do this to me. I wonder if its my spouse who wants to wander & hopes I'll lead the way. I've never been with another man & don't intend to break the morals I set before myself unless I get so stressed and strained I break (which by typing this and venting I'm hoping NOT to do). Yes, I admit my feelings are deeper than they should be, but I am still in control of myself. If I can get hubby to stop the inuendo & fantasy, I will eventually feel better. I've asked him to stop, told him I'd never put myself in this position again. (I also haven't seen my pal in a while too to try & help stop this.) I have even ful-filled a couple of his other fantasies I never thought I would to try help appease his sexual appetite. I don't know if this worked, he just thinks I'm loosening up to more ideas! Brother! This is what a c-section will get you ... my "ram-rod" previously securely in place in my back has been knocked out of place. I was so conservative people thought I had a stick stuck up my you-know-what (slight exageration). Please understand, I have a tendency to revert to humor to relieve the stress). Have I ricocheted around enough today? I still feel like I'm in a pin-ball machine, just set to beginner's level today & not expert's, thankfully) You guys all ask good questions and point out good stuff. Please bear with me, this has been bottled up for a long while & is coming out in gushes. I just need help to stay the steady course, stay in control. I need to be able to regain my self-esteem & not let people play with my mind & put thoughts in there that shouldn't be. I need to feel I am beautiful & not need a man to re-enforce that (trying to work on that one). Gotta run, lunch is over. Thanks all

February 2, 2004
1:09 pm
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Juanita
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ps - talk about humor & timing... I just grabbed a (small) handful of "Conversation Hearts" what does the first one I pick up say???

"swing time"

hope we don't believe in signs! Crud!

February 2, 2004
1:15 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Juanita,

Yes, I understand what you are saying. I too would be crushed if my husband ever told me he wanted to "swing" because yes, the first thought would be "do I not satisfy you?"

I'm sorry he is putting you through this. As you feel really strong on the subject, honestly I would be very strong in telling him "look, you made me feel like crap." If you have already done things that he fantasized about, AND they make you uncomfortable... I don't know, look at what else might be going on. Not knocking your husband, but sexual degradation does not mean love.

Don't worry about rambling, we all do it - me? All the time... here if you need to talk.

Zinnie

February 2, 2004
1:17 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Juanita,

Yes, I understand what you are saying. I too would be crushed if my husband ever told me he wanted to "swing" because yes, the first thought would be "do I not satisfy you?"

I'm sorry he is putting you through this. As you feel really strong on the subject, honestly I would be very strong in telling him "look, you made me feel like crap." If you have already done things that he fantasized about, AND they make you uncomfortable... I don't know, look at what else might be going on. Not knocking your husband, but sexual degradation does not mean love.

Don't worry about rambling, we all do it - me? All the time... here if you need to talk.

Zinnie

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