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Manipulation v negotiation?
February 9, 2006
7:57 pm
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gazelle
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Sorry, my reply to thread wouldn't send, so had to start this new one. My pc is acting up.

I too always used to explain & excuse myself at length, but then get persuaded to do whatever it was, often against my best interests! I need to learn to 'just say NO!'

BUT ... is there ever room for negotiation when 2 people have different needs / wants / expectations??? Must people always take the first answer given, with no room for manoeuvre? Surely in human interactions, there has to be some flexibility; some middle ground for compromise.

In a nutshell: is all negotiation manipulation? Even rational, respectful attempts to change someone's mind???

Love, gazelle. (who needs to learn assertiveness too, but without losing her openness to change with new info.)

February 10, 2006
4:10 pm
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kathygy
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gazelle,

I think negotiation is very healthy. It a way of taking each other's needs into account.

For example, my sister and I wanted to go out to dinner. I wanted to go at 6 pm but she wanted to get home early because it was Sunday night so she wanted to go to dinner at 4 pm.

I don't like to go to dinner too early because then I'm hungary later so we negotiated a time that was good for both of us. We decided to go to dinner at 5 pm. We were both happy with the decision.

Another example was that my therapist couldn't see me at my usual time. She offered me other times but none of them worked for me so we negoticated that we would have the session over the phone at a time convient for both of us.

I really don't understand where manipulation is a part of negotication. Certainly someone could be manipulative to get what they want but that's not what healthy negotication is about.

If someone is being manipulative than I don't see that as really negoticiation, I see that as mnaipulation.

February 10, 2006
4:15 pm
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lollipop3
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Gazelle....here is my response from yesterday. I moved it up so it can all be on one thread.

lollipop3
9-Feb-06

Gazelle,

I personally don't think that all negotiation is manipulation. In fact I think negotiation and COMPROMISE are very important in any relationship.

What I was referring to pertained more to when we say no, for example to set a boundary for ourselves for whatever the reason, and the other person persists in trying to make us change our minds. That to me is manipulation. If you think about it, most people who are trying to change our minds about something we've said no to, generally resort to guilt tactics, shameing, or use anger to intimidate us. That is the type of behavior I was talking about.

What do you think?

Lolli

February 10, 2006
5:52 pm
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gazelle
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Thanks, Kathy; I wholeheartedly agree. Mature people should, in my mind, be able & willing to negotiate and compromise as you describe.

I was responding to a post suggesting that any failure to accept someone's first answer counted as manipulation. I was trying to question that rigidity. Also, I wanted people's definitions of the differences between what is considered manipulation as opposed to healthy negotiation. (In the confusion over threads earlier, I forget whose post started it.)

Love, gazelle.

February 10, 2006
6:30 pm
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gazelle
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Hi, Lolli. Yes, I see your point too (I think.) I'm afraid I have a blind spot about 'boundaries' and am STILL (after over a year on this site) working on understanding precisely what people mean by that term. It seems to shift around so much to me.

Let me ask you about the last ever traumatic, sad day I saw me ex-bf, last October. I had been getting more & more depressed over several weeks because of his refusal to discuss his bad moods & rages with me, however calmly, gently & supportively I asked him. He used to walk off on me, push me out of his house physically (for no reason I could see) or ignore me for days, be 'witholding' & passive-aggressive, etc.

I felt v unloved. He had never said "I love you", but always signed off "Love, F xxx" and had said "I care about you." But although I believe he genuinely cared about me & wanted to be nice to me & cheer me up, he never took in or understood how I felt. He never asked me a single personal question, EVER!!!

His attempts to be kind were always ON HIS TERMS - without reference to my feelings. Even when I made my feelings abundantly clear.

So, that last ever day, he had decided to take his young sons & me to the cinema to see a fun film. Now, my only phobia is cinemas! I explained to him many times how claustrophobic & panicky I get in a dark, crowded space among strangers, with a large screen full of bright, moving colours & loud surround-sound noise. I had never gone to the cinema with him, or anyone else, for over a decade because it just makes me so sick & get panic-attacks where I can't breathe & nearly scream or faint. So I wait to see films on video at home, where I'm in control.

Anyway, he KNEW all this. But asked me to drive him & boys there, cos his car had broken down. I was happy to do this, but when we got there he told me I was coming in to the film w them. I excused myself & said I'd go to a cafe / stroll around the shops till it was time to collect them. But he suddenly got v cross & insistant.

In the queue, he grabbed me by the wrist & wouldn't let me go. I began to sweat ... the queue moved forward ... he pulled me along ... I said I really didn't want to go in ... he got angry & pulled me in by force despite my protests. Once sitting down in the dark, the adverts started, & I felt I would faint or burst or be sick, so I leapt up & climbed over people (apologising profusely)to run out before he could catch me ... I stumbled to the ladies', with heart pounding & vision whiting out, and threw up in the loo. Then I fled to a nearby pub & hid in a corner with a coffee, texting a friend & feeling terrible & v scared.

Now, Lolli, I'm usually quite confident & 'don't scare easy'. This is my only phobia (apart from big spiders!) Facing the music w him later & his wrath at me for embarrassing him in public was horrid. I was shaking that eve at his house & accidentally jumped when he approached me & broke a mug ... I burst into tears apologising, but he became furious and yelled & flung me about and eventually physically threw me out into the rain, & rang my ex-husband (we are still good friends) to drive down & collect me. He put on an ever-so-reasonable, calm voice, like a total hypocrite & actor.

I have never seen him since. I am crying writing this. I miss his little boys so much. I still love him, & miss him ... by which I mean PART or him, 'the nice, kind, funny, clever, sexy' part. NOT the control-freak, the emotional abuser, the refuser of all true emotional intimacy.

He said he was trying to cheer me up by dragging me by force into the cinema! But he KNEW I couldn't bear the sensory overload.

So - if you're still awake after that long, boring story (SORRY!) - question is: should / could I have 'set boundaries' any better than by by saying 'NO!' & explaining why?????

And was did his behaviour count as 'manipulation' or bullying? It certainly felt like the latter! I really need to know what people here think. I realise I'm being over-sensitive & stupid being afraid of cinemas, so perhaps it's my own stupid fault. He was trying to cheer me, after all. He even paid for my ticket, which I wasted by escaping. I must seem like an ungrateful b**ch.

I've never told all this before. It happened 16th October. What a relief to get it out! PHEW!!! So If you have been - THANKS for listening, friends!

Love & blessings - lonely, love-lorn gazelle :(((

February 10, 2006
6:42 pm
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gazelle
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What appalling spelling, grammar & punctuation! I just got SO wound-up & tearful typing all that that decent writing went out of the window. Sorry.

He has some amazingly good sides, & since that day on oct 16th I've been sinking lower & lower into depression & missing the good times, and my close bonding with his little boys SO excruciatingly much!!!!!

He e-mailed & texted his anger & then a half-hearted 'apology' which basically blamed me. I feel terrible, but I totally ignored them. Just cold turkey 'no contact.' I was / am far too upset to face yet more anger, sadness, blame by him etc.

But I MISS HIM desperately, & feel guilty. What should I do??? I welcome input from anyone. Thanks.

Blessings - gazelle.

February 10, 2006
6:46 pm
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gazelle
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ps We had been together for 2 whole years. Many weekends & long camping trips, festivals, holidays etc w his kids & even w my son & his parents too. So many happy memories, shot through w his with holding, cold times & rages. And he would never talk in depth - though he did appear to listen. I was so nurturing & gentle w him, & explained & taught him so much ...codependently, as I see now. It's so hard to let go after I've invested so much of my whole SELF in him (though w little in return.)

Enough! Stop me, someone! I rarely talk about me on here. Throw me off!

February 10, 2006
7:15 pm
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lollipop3
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((((Gazelle)))),

First I would like to say that I do not think that you are "stupid" for being afraid of the cinema. Phobias may not always be rational, but they are very REAL.

I'll tell you something about me.....I am SO afraid of heights that I fell into a hole...that wasn't there. I kid you not. I actually fainted because I thought I was falling into a non-existant hole. Now ya wanna talk about feeling stupid????

Okay, back to the issue at hand.

You asked if there was any way you could have set boundaries other than saying no and explaining why.....My answer is this.....you tried to set a boundary and he did not respect the boundary that you set. What he did was disrespectful, inconsiderate and downright abusive as far as I'm concerned.

Sometimes when setting boundaries we have to decide for ourselves how far we are willing to go to enforce those boundaries.

I suppose, given the situation, and considering he FORCED you in the cinema against your will, you could have made it clear to him that if he continued....you would ask someone for help. And if he continued....you could have asked someone for help. If still he persisted, you could have told him...if he continued you would call the police, etc. etc. But, like I said, it depends on how far you are willing to go. I don't know that I would have done any differently than what you did. As a matter of fact, I know I wouldn't have done differently. I had a similar situation where my b/f wanted me to cross from one barge to another by means of walking across a narrow plank between the two. I was afraid and didn't want to so I said no. He kept on and kept on until finally I tried because I didn't want him to get mad. I didn't have to. I could have left and called for a ride home. Instead I agreed. I got half way across and was so afraid that I started to cry. Only then did he realize what he was doing and apologized. My point is, it was up to me to take care of myself and enforce my own boundary, but I wasn't willing to do what was necessary, so I did what he wanted.

I have to say Gazelle, even though you are upset now and miss him and his children...you HAVE set the ultimate boundary. You have not seen him since that day which very cleary says....YOU CANNOT ABUSE ME!

I'm very proud of you.

I hope I helped a little bit to answer some of your questions.

Love,
lolli

February 10, 2006
7:16 pm
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lollipop3
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Gazelle,

I would like to add, In my opinion, as far as abuse goes.....no, there is no room for negotiation.

I think you did the right thing.

Love,
Lolli

February 10, 2006
7:21 pm
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lollipop3
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Oh and Gazelle....one more thing....last time I swear.....

All that you have described above, (except the physical, breaking things) , describes my b/f (ex) exactly.

We broke up a week ago for the very same reasons. He has a very good side that I love very much but his other side is very emotionally unavailable and he becomes mentally/verbally abusive at any attempt on my part to achieve intimacy in this relationship.

Just wanted to let you know that I understand how you're feeling.

Love,
lolli

February 10, 2006
7:33 pm
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gingerleigh
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It's far better to be alone than to be stuck with someone who doesn't treat you like the beautiful creature you are.

February 10, 2006
7:35 pm
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gazelle
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Oh, Lolli!!! THANK YOU so very much for your v kind responses! I v v rarely talk about myself; I usually respond to others on here (& in real life), so pouring all that out cost me a lot. I almost regretted it & felt ashamed. But you have soothed & excited me by understanding so well! I'm crying now in a happy, relieved way! I'm just not used to being heard or understood v often. Wow.

I'll try to calm down & sleep (it's nearly midnight here) and post more tomorrow, hopefully. I never knew how amazing getting a positive, empathetic response would feel!!!

Thanks for validating my feelings!

Thanks for making me laugh - but also empathise w how terrified you must have felt - about that non-hole!

Thanks for voicing your empathy w how I felt. I've only had that extremely rarely ever.

And thanks for saying you're 'proud of me'.

No-one has EVER in my whole life said that to me. I see it a lot on here, & have always felt it was 'icky shameless American sentimentality'. But now I realise that reaction must have been jealousy. Now that someone has said it to me, it suddenly feels incredibly wonderful. As if I sort-of exist, other than by my brain alone. It implies that I actually DID something 'right' at last!

Weep. Big smile. Sigh. More tears. Laugh of relief. Grin ... Love, gazelle. xxxxx

February 10, 2006
7:36 pm
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lollipop3
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Here here

February 10, 2006
7:39 pm
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gazelle
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Thank you, Ginger! And a v belated Thank You for yr intervention for me on Libs just before Christmas ... I was too overwrought & upset to say anything then, about heaps of real-life issues, so I just went offline to avoid the unfair abuse. But I felt guilty for not acknowledging you & Lolli. You both have a great sense of honour. Love, gazelle. xxx

February 10, 2006
7:45 pm
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gazelle
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How self-centered of me to ignore your breakup, ((( Lolli! ))) I didn't realise till I re-read just now. It feels so lonely, & one feels guilty for abandoning such sometimes-nice, helpless, genuine, double-edged chaps, doesn't it?

I really must stop & sleep now - my cheeks are burning & I'm all wound-up emotionally. Catch you again soon. Love, g. xxx

February 10, 2006
7:50 pm
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lollipop3
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First...that here here was to Ginger's post.

Second.....(((((((((GAZELLE))))))))))

You sweet thing!

Reading your post makes me sad. I am happy that I was able to help you feel better but sad because it sounds like you don't believe that you DESERVE to feel better. Well, I am here to tell you that you do.

It was easy for me to empathize with you because I have felt what you are feeling so many times before. When I speak to people here, I always try to put myself in their position and ask myself..."how would I want to be treated if this were me?" As I said, somtimes, because of my own experiences...that's pretty easy.

As far as me being proud of you....nooooo, it's not just me being an icky, shameless, sentimental, American (although at times, I can be...LOL). I say I am proud of you because I AM PROUD OF YOU. As I've said... I have been, and in some ways still am, where you are. And I know first hand how hard it is to break these cycles that we get ourselves into...especially when dealing with "matters of the heart"

I know how how difficult it is to take the blinders off and honestly look at ourselves and our relationships and the painful realities that inevitably smack us right between the eyes.

I know how hard it is to end a relationship when we may not be entirely ready to do so, but feel that we need to, to save ourselves.

Gazelle, as difficult as all these are...you are doing it and for that...I am proud of you.

Goodnight and sweet dreams.

Love,
Lolli

February 10, 2006
7:56 pm
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lollipop3
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Oh Gazelle, no worries about missing the break up thing. And don't worry about laughing at me for falling into a hole that wasn't there either.

It's fine... really.

LOL....I"m just joking with you, trying to make you smile.

And really, don't worry about my breakup. I started taking Wellbutrin and at this point, I have to concentrate really hard to remember his name! This stuff is pretty cool. LOL

Ok, really....go to sleep.

Good night,
Lolli

February 10, 2006
10:23 pm
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hopeful for change
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well lolli and gazelle I really have appreciated all of your help in these posts as well. I think you both have given me alot of inspiration. It really helps when someone understands what your going through.

And guess what I get panick attacks in places like that to, if the air doesn't seem to flow and their is alot of noise. One time I was on a field trip with my son's class at Union Station and I had to physically leave. I was so sick and freaking out and I felt so bad...but it happened.

I think it was great you set your boundary, I think people are so a use to us not having them sometimes they think if we set them they can push right through them or something. I don't even think we have to offer and explanation if the answer is no. I think that what your ex did was cruel..like he has some sort of power or control issue. I am sorry that he did that to you.

Sorry to ramble but...I am also in a completely emotionless marriage and atleast YOU have enough of yourself to not be stuck like me!!! Although I may not be stuck forever lol.

February 11, 2006
8:14 pm
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gazelle - you wrote "And was did his behaviour count as 'manipulation' or bullying? It certainly felt like the latter! I really need to know what people here think. I realise I'm being over-sensitive & stupid being afraid of cinemas, so perhaps it's my own stupid fault. He was trying to cheer me, after all. He even paid for my ticket, which I wasted by escaping. I must seem like an ungrateful b**ch.".........

Oh honey, how horrible for feeling this way....NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, you did NOT do anything wrong - this was NOT your fault.....AT ALL.

If he cared about you - he would respect your phobia and not put you in a position to cause such a severe panic attack - and then later rage at you for having one.

Sweetie - my daughter has a phobia - she is SCARED witless over getting a shot or needle from the doctor. It goes back to a time where the doctors rushed in to stitch a wound up and scared her cuz they did it without enough novaicaine - then a dentist who didn't wait for her gums to numb with the topical stuff before giving her the needle....she had so much dental work following that and we had to sedate her to get it done.

Recently, I felt she was over it - because she had had a few experiences that she handled well. But her last physical, we realized she needed bloodwork and two immunizations. She was BRAVE during the blood work - but lost her nerve after that and when we went to give her the shots, she panicked....the look of terror on her face was horrible....we tried holding her down - no luck - the doctor had to come in and restrain her - and he sat in a chair in the middle of the exam room and had her sit on his lap and he wrapped his arms around her - in a bear hug....he is a BIG GUY - over 6' and 250 or more pounds...she pushed with all her might and sent them flying across the room and against a wall - where they finally pinned her down long enough to give her the shots......it was HEARTWRENCHING to watch - but she NEEDED the shots, there was truly no other way.

Going to the cinema is NOT NEEDED. It is optional - and if causes that much anxiety - it's better to avoid it - or work on to overcome it - but on YOUR terms.

What your BF did was totally disrespectful and yes, abusive and there is no excuse for HIS behaviour.

I wish you could see how beautiful you are and how you deserve to be treated so much better....promise me to work on that, okay???

You know - you had every right to say no, and not have to explain. He has been with you long enough to know about the phobia - it sounds like it's not something new to him. Your compromise was perfect - you would drop him off - so they could see the movie and you would shop until they were ready to go.....you didn't owe him ANYTHING more than that.

Today my BF had scheduled a get together with his truck club guys....and I HAD a choice. I was tired and feeling sick - but WANTED to go....but had I not wanted to go - I would have said no thanks, you go and enjoy - and there would have been NO consequences for him going without me.

In the past - I would have pouted, sulked and been passive/aggresive with him if he chose to go without me when I didn't want to go.

THAT'S manipulation.

What you offered was compromise/negotiation....and there is NOTHING wrong with compromise and negotiation.

Yes, he wanted you to go with him to the movies - but was it critical that you be there with him or did he just need a ride??? And perhaps he can't understand your phobia - I have a hard time understanding what makes my daughter so scared - and admit to be embarrassed by her behaviour when she needs shots - cuz *****I******* feel like a bad mom who can't control her daughter. And perhaps ***HE*** feels like a bad boyfriend cuz he couldn't control you (control issues)...but that's not YOUR problem. That's HIS. When my daughter acts up, I want to beat her ass for acting like a psycho - but instead, I hug her and tell her I love her and I'm sorry she had to go thru that.....and we talk about ways to deal with the fear next time....as much as I want to be angry at her - I CAN'T BE - just cuz I don't understand it - doesn't mean it's not real....phobias are hard for people to understand - I had one woman on a bulletin board tell me I was a horrible mom cuz I couldn't get my daughter to "behave" in public....of course, many other parents with children with phobias came to my defense.....but still, cuz one woman felt that way, I felt that way too.

Anyway, I am rambling....negotiation is a good thing - IF - you remain true to your basic needs and desires.....sometimes we need to stick to our original decision - like not going to the cinema - other times - we can compromise and change cuz it's not so critical and we really wouldn't be hurting ourselves to change our decision.

And it's hard to know when you are crossing the line.

The situation you talk of is a CLEAR violation of your boundaries.

But sometimes we tell OURselves that it would be okay to change our decision when in our hearts, we really dont' want to - but we are good at talking ourselves out of sticking to it....that's what you have to work on controlling.

This summer, my BF's family had a labor day picnic - I did NOT want to go - I wasn't in the mood, and his family is not all that warm towards me....but I did not want HIM to go without me...so I forced myself to go....and had a horrible time and was counting down the minutes until we could leave....I didn't have a good time and I made sure he didn't have fun either - by complaining, knowing it would hurt him by complaining. I wanted him to hurt the way I was.

What SHOULD have happened was telling him I wasn't up to going and telling him he was welcome to go without me - and then LET GO of it. Meaning not pouting, sulking or treating him badly if he decided to go without me.

NOW - if I am not up to it, I say so. And he respects it....and I am confident now that there will be times he stays home with me and other times he will go without...but that doesn't mean he loves me less or anything - and it's okay if he goes without me - and I know that he will be home as soon as he can.....my insecurities are much better....and we are better because of it.

However - it is because my BF is CAPABLE of being thoughtful, kind, considerate and compassionate. If you don't have a BF that is CAPABLE - you will just be fighting a losing battle - and no matter HOW secure you are - he will still continue to hurt you and take advantage of you.

We talked in the "expectations" thread - and another thing I thought about in expectations - the problem is - often we expect things from people who are not CAPABLE of meeting our expectations....then we get pissed when they don't....but the reality is - they CAN'T. We have to respect and accept their limitations....but at the same time - we have to RESPECT OURSELVES enough to say that they aren't "enough" for us....and that's okay if they aren't....but it's not okay to keep them around and keep expecting them to try to meet our expecations....or wanting them to. If they can't, they can't...period.

I think when you try and decide if it's manipulation or negotiation, you need to look at what your motives are.....if you are trying to control the outcome - trying to control the OTHER person - trying to control the situation - it's manipulation. But if you are trying to make sure you meet your own needs, and still be able to meet someone else's - that's negotiation....but again, you need to make sure you don't negotiate with YOURSELF and tell yourself that it's okay to change what you need to accomodate someone else...In order to negotiate in a healthy way, you need to know what your terms are going into it and stick to that - but often the terms are flexible...but if they aren't...that's okay to...sometimes you can't be flexible (like your phobia).

rambling again and not sure if I am making sense....will come back later and see if I can clarify anything.

please know that you were setting good boundaries and negotiated in a healthy way, so his needs were met, and yours were too - but his willful abuse was violating your boundaries and clearly not respecting your limitations. I have a weight problem - and I went to an amusement park with my ex BF once and he complained the whole time because of the limitations my weight caused (we had to walk slow - he had to go on several rides alone cuz I got overheated and ill - we couldn't stay as long cuz my feet hurt)...but my current BF makes sure I am comfortable and continues to ask if there is anything we can do differently to accomodate my issues, just like I do when his back is bothering him....in the meantime, I am working on fixing it, cuz I want to participate...but with my ex - I was so angry at him for being so rude, that I didn't want to fix it. That's why I am with my current BF and not with the ex.

February 11, 2006
8:43 pm
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Oh, wow, THANK YOU, Ali, for taking the time to supply such a long & multi-faceted response! I've loved sharing interactions w you & Guest & others on his thread in Libs. It's so nice to have some responses to my issues too, after a pretty passive 14 months on this site, mostly spent reading, learning from & replying to others. I really, really appreciate it and will re-read it many times.

Sorry about yr daughter's terrible phobia. Poor her!!! Poor you!!! I hope she learns to overcome it soon. I used to be terrified of injections, but less so as I got older. At the dentist's, I actually request a jab before even letting them touch my teeth! Best of luck to her, poor lass. How old is she? My daughter is 18 & my son 14.

I envy you having a lovely bf now. I've been alone & celibate & lonely & love-lorn for most of my adult life. (Even though I'm told I'm attractive, intelligent, warm, empathetic, funny etc, etc.) I'm slim & fit & healthy & fairly energetic, well-read, educated etc but always lacking self-confidence & alone.

Sorry to blurt out so much c**p, but it's v late & I've drunk 3/4 bottle of red wine. It's v rarely that I spill my feelings out to people. It's v selfish & infra-dig, I know. Please forgive me this lapse, but I'll let it stand for once rather than delete in shame.

It's 1.40am now, so way past bedtime, so I have to go, since I suffer from terrible, chronic insomnia. But when I wake after about 2 or 3 hrs' sleep, I'll be so happy to know you posted to me! I may even get up to re-read it.

I respect your advice to Guest & others so much! Love & blessings - gazelle xxx ..... ZZZzzzz

February 11, 2006
8:46 pm
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Your validation is invaluable! I've never got any before in my life! I'm just SO immensely grateful!!! To Lolli too & to Ali xxxx

February 11, 2006
9:03 pm
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September 24, 2010
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Sorry to blurt out so much c**p, but it's v late & I've drunk 3/4 bottle of red wine. It's v rarely that I spill my feelings out to people. It's v selfish & infra-dig, I know. Please forgive me this lapse, but I'll let it stand for once rather than delete in shame.--------------------oh gazelle - that's what this site is here for....this site isn't to come and just help others - it's to have others help us to....I am so GLAD you shared - cuz you deserve to be heard too!!!!!

Why do you think you are being selfish? What kind of past do you have that made you believe sharing your feelings and needs is selfish? I know my dad made me feel that way - my mom was suicidal while I was growing up, so I was scared to be a normal kid - cuz he scared me into believing if I acted up, I would cause her to kill herself or try to again....this may sound nasty and manipulative of him - but the reality is - he was scared she would try again and suceed - and didn't know what would trigger her - so his fear led him to pass on the fear to us - he didnt' know any better...he couldn't....my dad is too "stupid" to understand stuff like this.....my point is - I know what caused me to think the way I do - have you thought about what makes you think the way you do?????? knowing where it started is key to knowing how to fix it.

I know about insomnia...that's what caused my bad day today...I was taking ambien to sleep - but am runing out of the samples the doc gave me...and can't afford a prescription cuz I have no insurance...so I tried sleeping two nights without it and it was hell....gonna take it tonight no matter what.

I used to think that I didn't deserve a lovely BF - my dad really did alot of damage to my esteem - telling me I was too fat for someone to love - that if I just lost alot of weight, I would be loveable and perfect - but as I was, I would never find a good guy - and he would tell me to hang onto whatever lousy guy i was dating at the time, cuz I would not find another person to love me....and the lousy guy was better than none at all.

Everyone deserves to be loved by a wonderful person - INCLUDING YOU!!!!

What can you do to help yourself learn to believe every good thing that others say about you???? cuz if others are saying it - it must be true - most people aren't good at dishing out compliments unless they are deserved.......so how can you believe in your good qualities the way others do???? Cuz that is ultimately the key to finding a loving partner - loving yourself first....when you think you are "good enough" - you will find a partner who thinks the same - and TREATS you the same....when you treat yourself well - others will do the same.....please believe this.

remember expectations?...well, if you expect someone to treat you badly - and that you are not worthy of anything more - you will get it.....but if you expect someone to treat you with kindness and love - SOMEONE will meet that expectation - but what you need to do - is keep looking until you find it - and not settle for the first guy who wants to take you home...if he doesn't treat you well - you need to keep looking...and TRUST you will find the right guy to meet your expectations - one who is CAPABLE of loving you.....cuz often, we choose guys who aren't capable of being kind and loving....and then expecting them to do it.....we set ourselves up for failure and set them up for failure....expecting something they can't deliver....the trick is finding someone who can....AND WILL!!!! (sometimes we find guys who can - we know they can, they know they can - but they won't....for whatever stupid reason....but if they won't, they won't - again, time to keep looking).

I hope you keep sharing more....you are a lovely person and I think you deserve the kindness that everyone else here receives and that you give to everyone else.

February 11, 2006
9:17 pm
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September 24, 2010
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Oh, and my daughter just turned 12! and is turning into such a lovely young lady, I am so proud of her!

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