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Let's just call a spade a spade and realize that what alot of us wnet through growing up should be labled what it REALLY is....and that is..........
June 12, 2007
7:19 pm
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bevdee
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Ok- I graduated in 76, but I was raised by those 50s parents. And so were the guys I dated or lived with.

Red Blonde you said "Earn the bacon, take it home, fry it up,..." You forgot clean the bacon grease off the walls.

June 12, 2007
7:20 pm
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red blonde
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oops

June 12, 2007
7:35 pm
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Anonymous
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Going back to the original thread, if you guys figure out how to deprogram your brain, let me know.

I still feel like I run on alot of "sterotypes" that I learned as a kid. Some was from home, but alot was from school and television! Right now I'm trying very hard to figure out what makes up reasonable expectations for a "good" marriage. Certainly not the June Cleaver sterotype, but underneath, that's what I saw as a desirable relationship No problems. Everyone knew what wes expected of them. No on ever challenged their role.

Yup ---- I've been brainwashed.

June 12, 2007
8:08 pm
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bonni
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while I agree with most of what you are saying, the impression I get is that you believe brainwashing is completely bad. I disagree.

the problem is that we can not let our children run completely wild. We do have to teach them the norms of society and safe behaviors. We can choose to teach them to use their brains and make more conscious choices as they mature, but with very young children, conditioning is the number one discipline method of choice. I prefer rewards to punishments myself, its STILL conditioning.

I first became fully aware of the benefits of brainwashing when I began teaching my children our house rules. Over and over, I ask them, "whats the number one rule?" Each responds with their version of "be safe." Number two, "take care of yourself." Number three, "have fun." Number four, "you get what you get and you don't fuss a bit." I actually created the first two and we added the second two together. They are active participants in their own brainwashing - so that they can start to take over their own training to become healthy adults.

Granted, many many parents use conditioning in poor and even destructive ways. I highly value my children and I respect them very much. Still, I need them to follow basic rules so our home is not chaos. It is my job to train them.

I love the idea that you are developing here that it is our adult chore to take over that role as brainwasher of our own selves. That is how we deprogam our brains. We actively choose what we train ourselves to do automatically. Right now, I am training myself to run. And do laundry every night. And drink all the water I need every day and so on.

Just some food for thought. We can choose to be angry at the people who initially programmed us. Or, in most cases, we can choose to recognize them as the flawed people they are (like ourselves), forgive them and stop expecting them to be who we want them to be and stop expecting ourselves to be who they want us to be. Its time to be the people we CHOOSE to be.

Bonni

June 12, 2007
8:12 pm
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bonni
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PS, I am not trying to make light in any way of the terrible wounds our parents have inflicted on us. I feel them too. For decades my parents basically told me that the only good thing about me was my brain. I wasn't pretty, social or any other good thing. Just brainy and selfish and pretentious and whiny. Oh, and that I'm not a leader. I have spent more decades struggling to rebuild my self image. As it works out, I'm bright, but not a genius by any stretch. I'm not ugly. I'm somewhat attractive. I have some potential to be an athlete. And, I'm actually a decent leader. They weren't intentionally cruel, just inexperienced at parenthood.

bonni

June 12, 2007
8:45 pm
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red blonde
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Bonni ~

Sounds like you have started you kids on a great path. I wish I had had a mom like you! I wouldn't have to be 'growing up' the right way now!
You are training them and teaching them to be their selves.

I agree that a certain amount of brainwashing and controlling has to be done during childhood - and that some, maybe alot, of parents take it to a different level which is brainwashing, controlling and very destructive. Nor do they teach their children any 'tools' for their adult life. I had no clue how to live or even how to make decisions. And when they have abused you and/or traumatized you...it only makes things worse.

Then I have seen parents who show no parental control at all and allow their children to do what ever they want and letting them run wild. Sort of think that is abusive as well or reverse brainwashing. What are the parents teaching their children by exerting no control, no brainwashing? Do the children grow up feeling they are entitled to do whatever they want regardless of others or whether it is right or wrong?

Hardly any seem to be as balanced as you in bringing up their children.

June 13, 2007
6:50 am
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bonni
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Red Blonde,
I wish that I were as good a parent as I want to be. I make mistakes alot. I'm doing the best I can most days. Its very difficult. Most of the time though, I try to remember my goal.

I wish that there were better tools and support available to help parents learn to be decent parents. Instead, we are just sent home from the hospital with almost nothing. In many cases, we cant and shouldn't rely on our own parents for advice because we don't want to be like them.

bonni

June 13, 2007
7:39 am
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foolfoolfool
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Hi all,

I was born in the 60s & brought up by a woman who was taught to "stand by her man" & that was about it!
... On raising a child? well that depended on how the man in her life thought it should be done.

I was never physically abused but the mental abuse by her chosen man was the seed of unworthiness that has grown inside me like a toxic weed throughout my life.

POWER CRAZY SONS OF BITCHES!!!! They have so little control over their manhood that they need to batter & bruise the innocent mind of a child so that child grows up to have no self respect or feeling of worthiness & has little or no chance of ever finding it within themselves & so their DESTINY is determined by some assholes ego.

Its WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!

June 13, 2007
10:20 am
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red blonde
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I was born in '48. I am being to believe that somewhere down the line, or history, especially in the good ole USA, that something went terribly wrong and that there is no way of fixing it. A baby boomer? I grew up with Elvis, Korean War, the Beattles, the Cold war, Viet Nam and flower children. The child of parents who were in their late 30's. They were raised during WWI, the roaring 20's, WWII. I wonder sometimes whether technology has grown or advanced so much that man, as a whole just can't really adjust to it? Everything started to be so fast paced...like time speeded up...or something? And what worked yesterday, is discarded constantly, because it won't work here and now...today?

Like we have discarded our values, ethics, and morals, in the pursuit of money and possessions and sacrificed what we SHOULD be holding dear to us...which are those that we love, our happiness, our 'souls' or our consciences.

Just thinking and wondering.

July 5, 2007
3:16 pm
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truthBtold
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Bumping this old thread up for a reason:

Mase, I like to "chew on things for a bit" and your response of 6-11-07 has stayed with me.

I do have a really old (now yellowed)paperback book by Eric Berne: "Games People Play" and I glanced through it again since you posted.

I see what you mean now. Though I can't really get into all of the diagrams and stuff in his book - basically I now get the jist of it and it does seem to make some sense to me now.

Sorry I dismissed your response so quickly.

July 5, 2007
3:49 pm
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on my way
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BS, poor role models, but somehow through out all of the fear, I knew I was loved. But then as an adult, I had to unlearn equating love with fear and stress.

July 10, 2007
3:03 pm
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on my way
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"Changes That Heal" is a good one by Dr. Henry McCloud. He says our adult lives are hampered by our childhood memories, of course, but adamantly writes that we do not have to LIVE there.

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