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Let's just call a spade a spade and realize that what alot of us wnet through growing up should be labled what it REALLY is....and that is..........
June 11, 2007
6:44 pm
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truthBtold
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BRAINWASHING!!!!!

I have YET to run across a "self-help" book which really called it what it was - and that is clearly a form of "brain-washing!"

So, from here, I will extract all that I can along these (mostly military)lines in terms of the practical ways in which you go about "de-briefing" your brain!!!!!

Damn - there ought to be (yet?)another self-help book that really states the true matter ot it all - DE-BRIEFING YOUR CHILDHOOD BRAIN!!!!!!!!!

It's what it all boils down to...once you can get past all of that "loyalty" bullshit. - you know?

Anyone get what I am saying here????????

June 11, 2007
7:02 pm
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ggfred4
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Got it!!! I understand exactly what you are saying....

gg

June 11, 2007
7:11 pm
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truthBtold
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ggfred4,

Thanks gg!!!

I think that it's all what it all boils down to!!!!!!

So why don't you suppose there aren't any books which call for "debriefing the childhood brainwashed mind?"

"Conditioning" as is most prevelent in today's psyco-babble really kind of tip-toes around the whole subject, in my humble opinion.

I say - call it what it is......and that is "brain-washing."

(Now - at least - I know the enemy.)

Thanks for your reponse.

June 11, 2007
7:17 pm
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Mase
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Don't get mad, it is a form of transactional analysis. It works with re-framing. It talks about three ego states and when not explained properly it is hard to by into. Trust me on this one with all my studdying of self help stuff, I would not be in the depressed, angrey, going in circles kind of place. Look up eric berne and ego states for yourself!

-Mase

June 11, 2007
7:36 pm
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Loralei
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truthB,

I know exactly what you're talking about. I started the de-briefing or de-programming about 14 years ago and I'm still at it. The first issue I tackled was religion. That took at least 4 years to painfully let go of the fairytales of youth.

Then I realized what a brainwashing job I got in school and from my parents about conforming to society, the importance of college, that the goal in life is to have a husband and family, etc. We're always told what we should want and what we are expected to do. No one ever bothers to ask what WE might want.

Yeah, and the co-dependent family loyalty guilt that we are fed. That your parents are right, even when they are wrong and that we should do what they say even after we are adults type guilt.

It seems I spent the first half of my life being brainwashed and am spending the last half trying to de-program myself from it's effects. It did make for a lot of wasted time.

June 11, 2007
7:36 pm
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truthBtold
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Mase,

"Re-Framing" and "Ego-states" may be all well and good - but to my mind, THE ANSWERS DO NOT LAY IN THE LOGICAL!!!!! doesn't seem to address the initial ANIMALISTIC ANGER (FIGHT/FLIGHT/FREEZE/BITE BACK) phase of ultimate betrayal by the ones that were supposed to have known better.

It's NOT a matter of ego.

It's not a logical matter we are talking about here!!!!!! I don't care which way you try to slice it!!!!!

It was fucking brainwashing!!!!!!

June 11, 2007
7:43 pm
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bevdee
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Loralei

Thank you for posting the above! It was 3 years ago that I started really exploring the roots of my religious brainwashing. I have always mistrusted the government, because I was born in 1960, and came up during the Kennedy assassinations, Vietnam, Watergate, etc etc. More recently as I have learned of my Native American heritage, I learned more about the South than was ever taught in school.

Propoganda for control.

Looks like we like- feathers are flying in tandem. Sort of.

June 11, 2007
7:50 pm
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truthBtold
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Bevdee,

I too was born in 1960 and have roots with the being Native American - mostly Iroquois from both maternal and paternal sides.

I am what some would call a "recovering catholic." I think that therein is a good place to start in the de-briefing process.

Hard to go "against the grain" in any type of belief system - be it religious of the complicated inner-workings of a (to put it mildly) dysfunctional childhood.

Again, all about peeling back the many, many layers of deception which has ingrained itself into our brain for many, many years..........

thanks for sharing Bevdee.

June 11, 2007
8:00 pm
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truthBtold
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Loralei,

Sorry, your post got crossed.

I do not think that the time you spent in de-briefing and de-programming is wasted at all.

It just does not seem to be a topic of general discussion, therefore, some of us have to flounder around for awhile to figure it all out and FINALLY see it for what it is - you know?

It's as if we are silently and gradually exposed to all kinds of "brain-washing" be it from our family of origins to the incredulous TV commercials about how we are just not good enough or worthy enough to live our life without "X" product or products......if you so choose to watch most of the bullshit on TV......

Damn fucking hard to "go against the grain" in this society - both past and present - but herein lies our weapon.....the weapon of choice and free will and to be HONEST enough within ourselves to see the REAL writing on the walls....and NOT look the other way!!!!!!!!!!

June 11, 2007
8:54 pm
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Loralei
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truthB and Bev,

Well, I was born 10 years earlier than you two ladies, so I was a teen right in the middle of the whole 60's movement. It was certainly a transitional period for everything.

Another brainwashing issue that really screwed me up good, was the notion of love and romance that movies and novels portray as reality. Back in my day, there was a major distinction between the "good girls" and the "bad girls" and that was really confusing. Movies back then only showed the good girls sucombing to even just kissing, as it being "forced" on them and only in their weakness do they give in. It really played on the idea that good girls aren't allowed to enjoy sex or even kissing. You can't imagine what that did to my brain.

Even now, they only show the infatuation stages of love as being the real thing. The stories always end before the couple lives together for 4 years or more. In fact, they never get past the honeymoon stage because that's when they tell you that they lived happily ever after. How's that prepare you for marriage?

June 11, 2007
9:02 pm
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bevdee
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Loralei and TruthB

We should talk about fairy tales.

Loralei - "as it being "forced" on them and only in their weakness do they give in. It really played on the idea that good girls aren't allowed to enjoy sex or even kissing. You can't imagine what that did to my brain. " Yeah- I know this all too well.

June 11, 2007
9:17 pm
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truthBtold
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You know, the interseting thing about this seems to happen after WW2.

If you remember, before the war - you had great strong female characters like Kate Hepburn and her flicks with Spencer Tracy. Those movies showed females as being in charge. Then, during the time of the war - you had very strong female figures like "Rosie the Riviter" working in a "man's job" during the war...actually women right there on the assembly line putting together fighter planes and such......then, it seemed to be that after the war is where the media portrayed women to be in a submissive role....the Doris Days, the Marilyn Monroes etc...and much focus was tuned into the "home place" in the 1950's with great stides in kitchen appliances etc...and all the fucking "June Cleaver's" of the American world were crawling out of the woodwork....think about it.......hmmm..........

June 11, 2007
9:18 pm
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truthBtold
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You know, the interseting thing about this seems to happen after WW2.

If you remember, before the war - you had great strong female characters like Kate Hepburn and her flicks with Spencer Tracy. Those movies showed females as being in charge. Then, during the time of the war - you had very strong female figures like "Rosie the Riviter" working in a "man's job" during the war...actually women right there on the assembly line putting together fighter planes and such......then, it seemed to be that after the war is where the media portrayed women to be in a submissive role....the Doris Days, the Marilyn Monroes etc...and much focus was tuned into the "home place" in the 1950's with great stides in kitchen appliances etc...and all the fucking "June Cleaver's" of the American world were crawling out of the woodwork....think about it.......hmmm..........

June 11, 2007
9:38 pm
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red blonde
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Truthbtold, Bevdee, Loralei and anyone else ~

How can we de-program ourselves. I am having a hard time. All my decisions have been 'other' based, what I wanted to do etc. didn't matter. I think I am 2 years older than Loralei and am going to therapy, and I don't really know if it is helping me or not. I am not sure if I am a 'recovering Catholic' or not because I haven't been back to Church (unless wedding or funeral) since 1974, when the Church turned didn't help me when my husband was physically abusive to me. And I know I went through all the brainwashing that you went through, Loralei. Feel lost half the time.

June 11, 2007
10:06 pm
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bevdee
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Red blonde

I am going to post some links for you. But, I can't do it on support, because it's against the guidelines to discuss religion or spirituality on the support side.

I'll call it Recovering from Religion. Expect flak- it's Libs.

June 12, 2007
2:18 am
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red blonde
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bevdee ~

Got the links, thanks...posted to the libs thread as well! Am going to bed soon, very tired. But I don't know if I should discuss being brainwashed by parents and other people ALONG with brainwashing from religion here....or on libs now.

It all has to do with abuse and the allowing of abuse or acceptance of abuse of a human being. I can only discuss the 'complicity' by the Catholic Diosese in my abuse whether by total denial of it or that I had to "grin and bear it" on the Libs thread? Even though I may have to deal with this issue as part of my recovery and growth due to the brainwashing of guilt, shame and or fear and its subsequent detrimental effects upon me? This is confusing to me and I hope that this is not the case. I am not preaching or missionizing any one religion as THE one religion nor am I knocking religions or faiths down, just telling what happened to me to make me feel trapped, or controlled or denied as an individual who needed help and received none.

June 12, 2007
11:32 am
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gracenotes
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Truth,

Addressing your original question and those who have written here.

One of the best books I have ever read on the topic of how controlling people brainwash us (and I have been brainwashed/lost my identity a few times in my life, but not at present) is a book by Patricia Evans called: Controlling People. The subtitle is: How to Recognize, Understand, and Deal with People Who Try to Control You. This need for others to control is a compulsion with them, the effects on us are devastating. As she says, we are under their spell.

Its not an easy read, but its a truthful read and it describes how and why this happens, as she describes, we can become the "spellbreaker" and get under the spell of these people, institutions, etc.

It was really a life-changing thing reading this book.

June 12, 2007
12:41 pm
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truthBtold
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Gracenotes,

Thanks for the info on the book. I'll check it out.

June 12, 2007
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Loralei,
You and I must be about the same age, because I remember just what you are talking about girls. We were programmed to be the good girls, to wear just the right clothes, never were pants, God forbid. Then came the late 60's and all of a sudden there was another war, and everything changed again. Then we had the summer of love, and all of sudden women were to throw away their bras and be free. Birth control pills were suppose to free us of worry about sex. Boy, was that a time to live.

brenda

June 12, 2007
3:06 pm
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Anonymous
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Okay, add another 50's something age woman into the mix. Yeah, I remember the '60's. Was in high school and college. I feel like changed for women for sure. But now I feel like I have to be Superwoman. Remember the old commercial about the woman who could earn the bacon, take it home and fry it up in the pan!" In other words, what we as women got out of it was the job of working full time and bringing home the bacon, and then working full time at home frying the damn stuff! Sort of a June Cleaver crossed with Hiliary Clinton!

June 12, 2007
3:09 pm
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Loralei
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Brenda,

Yes, growing up during that era was like nothing else. And to go from one extreme to the other. From the uptight, proper, ladylike era to the freewheeling hippie era ... you can't get much more diverse than that. It was a confusing time indeed.

It's hard to believe that in all my 12 years of public school, girls were never allowed to wear pants to school, even on the coldest days. Now, I never wear a dress!

June 12, 2007
6:05 pm
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red blonde
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I am in my late 50's. I agree with Caribou! Earn the bacon, take it home, fry it up, feed and take care of the kids and husband. I don't think men's attitudes about women have changed much...they just expect more from us now.

June 12, 2007
6:41 pm
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bhhunt
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Red Blonde, Caribou, Loralei,
Yes, Yes, and Yes to all three of you. I love my husband, but he is just a little bit of the 50's husband. Thank God not too much, just enough to make it interesting.I graduated high school in 1966, what about ya'll?

Brenda

June 12, 2007
7:04 pm
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red blonde
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Brenda

Same here...1966.

June 12, 2007
7:17 pm
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Me .... Class of '68.

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