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Leaving a relationship that was sick from the start
January 13, 2007
8:56 pm
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briss
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Startingover and Passionflower and anyone else interested in this thread

You both speak of traumatic childhood experiences. There is of course a direct connection between the situations we have found ourselves in with these leeches and abuse or neglect we have experienced in chilhood. Yep you guessed it I too have suffered at the hands of a parent - my mother.

I today am in a kind of shock. Yesterday for the very first time in my life approached my mother about the physical and emotional abuse she put my Dad, brothers and me through. I held her arm and yelled 'You admit it. Admit it and apoligise. I want an apoligy.' I held her arm tightly and would not let her go. She kicked at me and threatened (as she used to do when I was young) to punch me. That same cruel and brutal look on her face that I remember as a girl. I eventually let her go and she walked out on me - probably for the last time. I cried and cried. I was shaking uncontrollably. I was physically sick. It all came flooding back - the fear, the hatred, the longing to have a real mother.

For years my brothers and father (now deceased) have lived in the same denial she does about the abuse. Nobody mentions it. They act as if it didn't happen - as if it doesn't affect them. Both my brothers are alcoholics. My brothers have always said to me 'Briss leave it, just go forward'. For me it is always there affecting my entire life.

I feel for complete recovery I need to address not only why I fell into the hands of an alcoholic but this incredible pain that lives inside me regarding my mother's abuse. I want to find forgiveness. How have you dealt with this?

January 13, 2007
9:09 pm
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briss
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Also passionflower

I laughed out loud when you speak of the snake trying to wriggle back into the nest weeks, months or years later. That's exactly what he will do and he will say he missed me, can't get me out of his mind, loves me and has sobered up. You know only too well how needy and deceitful these creeps are. I still can't decide who was/is sicker - him or me? I actually believed this shit once. I am so embarassed.

January 13, 2007
9:21 pm
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briss
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Like you all to read and comment onthe thread Is any man better than no man? Similar issues. Similar fears.

January 14, 2007
2:03 am
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briss
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January 14, 2007
6:34 am
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passionflower
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Briss..

Your mother will never admit to anything. She doesn't have empathy or a conscience at all. It just isn't there. You don't have to forgive or forget....in fact it's better that you don't forgive or forget any form of abuse. That is setting you up to fail again and to allow yourself to be treated badly. It's something you were taught to believe as a child.... time to drop that one. Abuse is abuse in all forms and should never be forgiven or forgotten because if you do, that gives the abuser the green card to further abuse you....so you forgive and forget again....more abuse. How many times has this happened to you?

I don't have anything to do with my mother at all. If she had wanted that role in my life, she would have shown me love, care and concern when I was a vulnerable child. She didn't. So why should I be the dutiful daughter and go out of my way to visit her now? I couldn't care less. I am a mother myself...I cared for my son, taught him right from wrong, loved him and cared for him...still do and he's 26 now. You are mothers too....would you abuse your children physically, mentally and emotionally and scar them for life? Set them up to fail...to become bait for people like them and not know what it is to be truly loved and cared for? I used to 'forgive and forget' the things my mother did... because of her own childhood. But then I realised that didn't make her the way she is. I didn't abuse my child and I had no role model for motherhood. It came naturally to me... to want to love and care and protect my innocent child.

How many times have you tried to win your parents love and approval? I bet you've gone through your whole life trying. That's why you've attached to abusive people and tried to win their love and approval... banging your head against that brick wall. You've been conditioned to do that from an early age.

So now you know the cause of your unhappiness, you have to re-programme your mind. You have to be your own parent, learn to love and look after yourselves, protect that inner child...the one that cries out for love and approval. Tell her that it's not okay to allow anyone to abuse her... guard her like you would your own children. Don't put her in harms way... don't let her give her money to parasitic jerks... teach her that she deserves to be treated with love and respect and should expect that at the very least....that she doesn't need to be validated by anyone, she's fine as she is.

Briss...that child in you, the one that's trying to win the approval and love of her mother called that alcoholic jerk to tell him about your new job. And just like your mother, he beat you down by telling you it was no big deal... you're still a nobody. You were looking to him to validate you.

I have a friend here whose mother has always belittled and criticised her and beaten her to a pulp right up to the age of 34. This friend is a highly intelligent and attractive lady, now 53 and like a dutiful daughter goes and visits her elderly mother once a week. Every week she calls me in tears, sometimes has to take time off work for emotional reasons. Last week her mother told her she had terrible frown lines, she looked ugly and it was no wonder she couldn't find a decent man with a face like that. What kind of evil person says that to her daughter? That is hate! This friend has had an on/off relationship with a psychopathic alcoholic for the past 22 years. Her mother set her up for it. I've told her not to visit her again... to let her rot in hell! But the mother is blackmailing her...she threatens to cut her out of her will and my friend is relying upon that money to pay off her mortgage...she is a single parent, had one abusive relationship after another and was bled dry by all of them...again I've told her to sell her house and not be subjected to any form of blackmail.

See how much damage it causes? If you don't do the work on yourselves, cut out the puss from those bleeding wounds, your lives will always be one of torment and abuse. It's never too late to wake up and turn it around.

Starting over... here's another one for you: See your life like a rose bush. You have to keep pruning it back to get a beautiful bloom. If you don't, you get a lot of dead stalks and thorns....and they attract a lot of bugs.

January 14, 2007
6:02 pm
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startingover
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Briss: I'm sorry about the confrontation with your mother, and am wondering about the timing? Do you see her often? Have you ever said anything to her before? It seems a losing battle - they never admit anything, they just expect it to go away. If I ever confront my own mother in even the slightest way, she doesn't speak to me for years. That's not all bad. I don't seek her approval anymore, just don't want to have regrets later, so I tend to agree out loud with her and internalize it all, and try to chalk it up to her disease of alcoholism. It seems easier for her to feel and express anger than any other emotion. I remember when my Dad was in the hopital once, I had driven for hours to get there, and I put my suitcase in her car at the hospital because sge was going to get a hotel room. well, she got mad at my (dying) father (how dare he!) screamed at him, left the hospital, and dumped my suitcase out in the hospital parking lot. God, what an embarassing scene. Of course, nothing was ever said about it, life just goes on, she always acts like nothing bizarre ever happened. I just go along with it, my Dad even said "you know how she is". Oh yes I know how she is, and ten years later she sure hasn't changed. Never will.

I guess the reason I say this is - I don't expect we should put up with outright abuse anymore from anyone, but maybe you should just leave her miserable self to her miserable self. What a curse, to be so unhappy and in denial. She will NEVER say "I'm sorry". Never, it didn't happen.

Passionflower: I may be that ugly brown and thorny winter rosebush now, but there is beauty underneath the ugly. I need time. Today is the one-year anniversary of my being "dumped" by my "best friend" and I am OK with it. I am better off now, he is not. Tough.

Take care everyone.

SO

January 14, 2007
8:45 pm
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briss
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'You know how she is' Oh Startingover how many times have I heard my Dad say that? My father - constantly trying to keep the peace, smoothing it over, pretending everything's just fine.

Since breaking it off from the alcoholic - all the painful memories are flooding back and I am angry. That bitch (mother) has to be made accountable. I know the scene 2 days ago was inappropriate - never was I going to achieve anything with such an outburst. However my uncontrollable anger told me these repressed issues must be addressed.

I have since sent my mother a letter inviting her to join me in counselling. I made it very clear to her that unless this stuff was dealt with my anger would never go away. That I am not going to pretend anymore.

I am quite aware that she will never contact me about it. But I have given her the choice. We fix it or she exits my life.

I like, your friend passionflower, was hanging in for the inheritance. She will now take me out of the Will - she has threatened it before. It is one of her many ways of manipulating.

Thank God - I am finally free of her. She can leave the money (actually Dad's money - she's never worked a day in her life) to my brothers. I'm OK and feeling better by the day. Getting rid of toxic people from my life one by one and loving it.

Passionflower you said I should never forget or forgive. Oh I will never forget but I can forgive. If she will admit to her abuse we can work through it and I will forgive.
What hurts now as an adult is not the blows but her denial.

Passionflower I have four children all of which I treat with the utmost respect as I hear you do with your son. When I mess up (as of course I do) I apoligise. My mother has never said sorry to me in her life, nor has she said it to anyone else. My Dad would always say to me 'Go and make it up with your mother Briss' I too was expected to smooth it over. What a dysfunctional family we were -still are.

You people are helping me so much. Thankyou

January 14, 2007
10:22 pm
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startingover
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Briss: I'm not sure the scene was inappropriate, it happened, so be it. You and your mother have some issues to deal with, you are probably doing it more effectively than I am. I just keep quiet to keep the peace, but there's a little part of me that still wants a "Mom". I am 46, she is 70, I may never give up, but at least I try when I am able. Sometimes (a lot of times truthfully), it just takes too much energy and I avoid her. It's not hard. She has never called me, never has my phone number or address, always claims she has lost it. I contact her when I'm feeling strong, and that is not often.

Wonder how she'll respond, if at all, to your suggestion for counseling. I would guess as you did that she won't respond. Nothing ever happened, right? Denial, bigtime denial.

There's no money worth kissing ass for, not even dear old Mom. So, I don't blame you there. I am just concerned that this is a particularly bad time for you to have yet another relationship upheaval. Hope you are taking care of yourself through all this turmoil. Perhaps I could caution you to try no contact with her, too, for awhile, maybe a long while. You've made your offer, let her react.

You are helping me so much, too, and I thank you as well. It's good to know that others have survived the shame, abuse, neglect, and self-doubt. I believe this is why I have chosen some of the loser men I have chosen, too. I think it's the best I can do? all that I deserve or could possibly hope for? Years of being neglected do nothing for a person's self-esteem, that's for damn sure.

Hang in there.

SO

January 14, 2007
10:59 pm
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briss
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Wise words SO. I will stay out of her way and for a long time. She will never contact me - that is all part of her manipulation. She did it to all of us for years - the silent treatment until we cracked and came running back for more, full of apoligies only to let her win again.

I feel strong enough never to run back now. I know this seems like a rotten time for me but it's like I'm determined to clear all the bad stuff out of my life.

Absolutely - there's no money worth kissing ass for and I unlike my alcoholic brothers are going to stopping kissing that nasty old bat's ass from now on.

Can't help thinking if any one of my children wanted to work through things with me at any stage of their lives I would be the first there. Cannot accept that a mother has not the capacity to see the importance of this. If she can't (or more likey wont) she can rot in hell. Her choice.

January 15, 2007
7:04 am
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Hey! I see progress here ladies.

You are getting to the root of your problems. They need to be brought out in to the open and dealt with. It's good to get angry Briss. There are different forms of anger and your anger is of the energy-giving type...you've been her victim far too long now. See the way she plays with you...just like than darned slot machine! It's never going to apologise for not paying out either. It's been programmed that way.

There comes a time in your life when you are sick of waiting for the few crumbs that may or may not come your way intermittently...when you regain control and walk away...accept that the slot machine is never going to spew out the promised jackpot. So you cut your losses and start planning a new way to work out your problems. A healthy way...one that lets you decide how much you are going to give and what the pay-off is.

My mother is exactly the same....she never contacts me, doesn't know my address...blah blah. At least you're aware of the game that's being played. That gives you the option of either playing along or moving on. Like you did with your alcoholic ex...you realised it was sick from the start...you woke up and moved on. As with your mother, you tried to change him, please him, win his approval... to get him to see the error of his ways...but then you saw he was never going to do that...and you only have to see it once for what it really is. They don't change....they're wired up differently...different programming...

You can change yourself though..dance to a different tune.

Keep dancing and don't look back....do the work and focus on the steps. Don't waste your energy trying to get people to love you. Use that energy to really learn to love and look after yourself. When you do that, you will attract people who will really love you and you won't have to try and make it happen either...and until then, go about your business, enjoy what there is to enjoy...get in to that new job...change your routine, change the scenery if you can.

It's better to be a healthy person on your own, than sick in a sea of sick people. Watch out for them...they're everywhere and they won't like you being a shining independent happy person...they will try and steal it from you. Like the slot machine...it will promise you the jackpot to lure you to play...and confuse you with a few cents once it has emptied your pockets...

January 15, 2007
9:05 am
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Briss It would never be up to me to say you did the right or the wrong thing with your mother; my own way is to internalize, ignore, forgive and forget. It hasn't done me a bit of good, Every time she asks me for my phone number and address, I want to scream "why the f%%* do you keep asking me for it, you old bitch?", but I patiently wait for her to get a piece of paper and tell her one more time.

Like you, too, I wonder why I am programmed differently. I will always be there for my own children, as long as I am able, and I tell them that regularly, too.

I may have told you I got the Christmas present from my sister which had a card enclosed with a baby picture falling out. No mention in her card that "I had a baby", (well, I guess she has the same mother I do, how would she know to share good news!?), and this is why I have been trying so hard to reach my mother, so I could find out if she knew. Her response: "whatever makes her happy, it has nothing to do with me" Oh yes it does, you mean old bitch, it would be your grandchild, an opportunity to see life again through the eyes of a child, or the opportunity to ignore birthdays and make him wonder aloud "why is Grandma like that?" Good f'in question, I can't answer it.

I just can't finalize the detachment, I still want a mother, and a grandmother for my children. I no longer seek her approval, ask her for anything, expect anything. I think I would walk away for good if she were unkind to my children, however I put up with it for my self. Their Dad is the same (imagine - I married an emotionally unavailable, self-absorbed person!) - he is unavailable in every way, nobody knows where he is, did not attend high school graduations, no "football Dad" there watching his son practice or going to a game, but by God I haven't missed a single one, if my child drops the ball or gets hurt, I WILL be there. So, I feel bad for them that I have chosen such crappy unloving people (including this BF who used me up, attached to them, then disappeared). Guilt. What a waste of time. "Make better decisions than I have made", I say. How about "don't do as I do"? This is why I am alone for now. I have told them, there is something wrong with me that I make bad choices in people, and that I am learning how to make better ones, for my sake and theirs. I hope they understand one day. In the meantime, we are alone, no family but each other, and that make me so deeply sad I can't stand it sometimes. That is why I keep trying.

Passionflower: we are indeed making progress, painful as it is. Alone and happy is certainly better than poisoned by even being close to such negative people. Have you ever noticed how when you do spend time around someone so negative it just completely drains you. I feel empty; I have used too much energy to keep my mouth shut when I perhaps shouldn't have.

You're right, too, about they are everywhere, which is what attracted me to this post in the first place, we are vulnerable and obvious somehow, and that is what I need to fix. It's not the self-confidence they see, it's something else? Am I too kind? Have you ever wondered that?

Thanks, love to talk to you both.

SO

January 15, 2007
11:11 am
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I dont even know where to start... This is literally my first step towards some type of (very long overdue)recovery. If there ever was a text book case of co-dependency, i'm it.
Hi everyone, i'm Miserable, to say the least. Im newly married, 7 months pregnant, and just now accepting the realization that i need to get help. I could cut and paste Briss' original post for this topic, minus just a few changes, and since it fits the bill so perfectly and im at a loss for where to begin, i think i will n(sorry Briss)..... After 5 years of loving, or TRYING to love an alcoholic s***head, I realize it was doomed to fail from the beginning. My guts were telling me this was wrong all along - telling me the promises were lies and that this was destructive. Yet, i am still here. Now i feel incredibly "stuck". Im embarrassed to have been such a fool, angry that I wasted SO much time on a sick man and sad because I am so lonely. Even though i have a great daughter, a son on the way, an awesome support system of family and friends, I feel so incredibly empty. What is wrong with me!?! Will these feelings EVER go away? Is there hope now that I have identified (without denial) his illness, my codependency and the very bad path I am on?
I plan to move out of our house and back in with my mother (which is an issue in itself)VERY soon, but im afraid. I dont even know why.
I need out, i need help...is there a particular type of therapist (not that i can afford it on my own...HES the bread winner)that specializes in co-dependency. Any help at all would be great ya'll, thanks for letting me vent.

January 15, 2007
2:38 pm
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startingover
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Hi miserable, this is a great place to start. We have a lot of common trends here, the biggest being a relationship with an addict. It is scary, no doubt about that. Free help is available at CODA meetings, and AlAnon is a wonderful start, too. That program has helped me tremendously.

Good luck.

January 15, 2007
5:29 pm
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I think I live on the other side of the world to all of you. So when you're posting I'm sleeping and then I get up and rush to the computer to find your posts which I have to say are my life support at the moment.

This might seem sad that people on the other end of the earth that I don't know, will never know, are my source of strength but I'm going with anything and everything that pulls me out of the destructive place I've come from. And all of you are so in touch with the feelings - fear, confusion, sadness,guilt embarrassment and anger that I am experiencing from being in a 'no good' relationship.

Hello miserable. You are welcome to copy my first post. When I wrote that I had tears pouring down my face, I had lost all energy, I felt totally defeated and completely lost. I sense that you feel exactly the same way.

You have, like me, identified that things have got to change. As far as I'm concerned you are now half way to recovery as a result. Now you have to admit, as your guts have been telling you that (he) is not going to change. Do not waste another moment waiting, wishing and hoping. And get out. Whatever it takes get out. It is so painful, so scary and you will feel as if you will break. It is going to be unbelievably hard for you as you have a child and are pregnant - maybe need to move in with your mother but do not let these obstacles stop you from doing what's right. It can be done. It must be done. miserable the reason you are hurting is not because there is something wrong with you - it is the toxic relationship you are in. You owe yourself (and your children) a healthy happy life. Do not look back. You will find support on this site but also draw on anyone and anything else that helps you. You say you have good friends and family - use them. Make no bones about it. You are getting out and need all the support you can get.
Get a hold of Empowered Recovery by Doug Kelley. You can down load his book Surviving an Alcoholic Relationship. It is a god send. Keep posting miserable. I for one will stay with you all the way and I've found that passionflower and startingover are invaluable in supporting me.
Stay focused miserable.

passionflower as usual your words are so empowering. The analogy you use of dancing to a different tune and learning the steps, focusing in on me and so on. I can visualise this and it makes me feel so alive. Yes I have come a long way. When I look back on my original post which wasn't that long ago I know how far I've come. I think that once you really make the break the growth is exponential. No contact (except for one slip up) and no looking back has made it possible. Thankyou once again.

startingover

I know the feeling of wanting a mother (a real one). With women like our mothers this is merely wishing, waiting and hoping - just like we did with our sick men. It aint ever going to happen. Stop this at once. Set yourself free. Concentrate on the people that really matter - the ones that deserve your time - you know who they are. It is such a liberating feeling to set yourself free of all the toxic people in your life. For me it is the alcho and my mother but I reckon I could probably think of a few more now I've got the ball rolling. You are so right about negative people draining you - they pull you down and exhaust you. Why would we, do we ever put up with this? There are 6 billion people in the world and we've managed to hook up with a couple of destructive ones. Ever wondered why? Because we have let it happen.. Have we got so little opinion of ourselves that we only let the losers in? I don't think so. I know I'm pretty damn good and I know you are too. So let's use our experience to spot those losers and walk the other way.

Briss

January 15, 2007
7:14 pm
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Hi Miserable... you are welcome here. I will support you as best I can, as I know the others will to.

I am so glad to hear that you are getting out of that hell and moving back to your parents for a while. Please read Doug Kelley on http://www.empoweredrecovery.com.... you can also get some real support on the forum there. Those people really understand and care about people like you. Doug and Tracy were both in abusive alcoholic relationships...with children, and survived. They can give you the tools you need to break free Miserable. Very soon you will change your name to Peaceful! Just get out as soon as you can.

My sister has just left her abusive alcoholic husband of 22 years! She has finally found the strength and some kind of independence. She had four children, three of them are now young adults...bearing the scars of years of abuse. My sister is penniless and alone at 52 years old. When I ask her why it took so long, she cannot answer. She is so numb from all the shit...worn out with it. Hers is a classic case of the 'Stockholm Syndrome'...Doug Kelley explains those symptoms. She lives in Germany, I live in the UK and am going over to visit her next week, to give her some support.

Ladies, the reason why you got hold of losers is simple: You were set up by your parents... you were bound to find the unhealthiest slime balls alive. When you were a child, you grew up with slime balls...that's all you knew, you thought everyone was like that. You were conditioned to accept the unacceptable. You saw other people that were healthy and happy and decent...but you never thought you 'belonged' with those people...your mind told you that they wouldn't want an emotionally damaged, unhealthy person such as yourself...so you found a slime ball to 'love' you instead. You were conditioned to believe that's all you deserved...all you were going to get. And just like you were trying to get your mothers to love you...you did the same thing with your partners. It's a child thinking...that emotionally damaged child inside you that still thinks that she is in some way bad or ugly or never good enough.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only way is no contact. Stay away from abusers and that includes family members aswell. Don't give them an inch. Nourish that damaged child within... be good and be kind to yourselves. Go out and play in the park, have a swing. Get a dog and play catch the ball. Paddle on the seashore, collect seashells. Watch the sunset. Have fun, learn to live again... really look at nature and see the beauty in it. Read as much as you can...books that will enrich your soul. Keep away from that destructive alcoholic kingdom...it is a poisonous place and it will destroy you. Alcoholics are very sick people, very sick indeed. I have no sympathy for them at all. They are the scum of the earth...they destroy good people, feed off people, they lie, they abuse, they steal your energy...they have no conscience. I don't believe they have a disease at all. They are addicts...and they are not going to get my sympathy vote by having it labelled a 'disease'. Most of them have severe personality disorders too...that's why they're still slime balls even when they stop drinking. I only have respect for those recovering alcoholics who have made a determined effort to get healthy again...and that takes years and years. If I meet a recovering alcoholic that has stayed sober for 20 years, and has changed his behaviour pattern and can prove to me that he is now a decent person and has made amends, then I'll take my hat off to him...but not before. Most don't get to that stage. They may sober up for a while...but they more often than not, go back to the same old tricks.

Miserable... look after yourself and your children, treat yourself with kindness...you haven't done anything to feel ashamed of... make a safe place for yourselves and slowly you will recover...you will find some peace in your life and when that baby is born, you can smile at his/her little face and be sure that you did the right thing...giving that baby a chance to live a normal and healthy life.

Make sure you do the work to heal your own inner child Miserable...when you feel stronger...so that you don't fall in to the clutches of another evil slime ball. Know that you are a person worthy of so much more...life is a beautiful thing...the world is a beautiful place. There is a light shining at the end of that dark tunnel...and it's waiting for you.

Keep posting. We care about you here.

January 15, 2007
7:30 pm
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Startingover...Briss...Miserable

I can tell that you are all good,decent and courageous people. You are like lotus flowers that have grown out of a muddy pond. You all have my heartfelt admiration...and I know you're going to make it to that happy place...I just know it!((smile)) and ((hugs))

Briss you do have a great sense of humour. I chuckle sometimes at your posts..."the alcho, my mother and I could think of a few more now I've got the ball rolling!"...Ha ha! Keep that ball rolling...make it a cannon ball...and flatten the lot of them!

January 16, 2007
11:50 am
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miserable
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You know, just finding ya'll and knowing im not alone has made all the difference in the world! I actaully feel like i can breathe! Im not alone, there is light at the end of this horrific tunnel...and no matter what, im still not as effed up as he is, good news!!!!

I have just recently (within the last 2 weeks) realized im married to an alcoholic, how it took me so long (we've dated, off and on, of course, for 6 years), ill never know. I knew he drank...alot...but did not know he had the "disease" (although, after ya'll's suggested reading last night, im not convinced its a disease afterall). I just knew that hes a mess.

My mother had suggested to me, SEVERAL years ago that i might be codependent. I wrote it off to her fixing her alcoholism and trying to pull me in with her. So young, so dumb. Yesterday, i finally googled it (mind you, this is after having thrown away countless books that she has given me throughout the years). Thru my tears and sobs of pure exhaustion, i find out....holy shit(!!!)....she was right all along.

Briss, I too, was a wreck when i came to this site. Bawling, which isnt my style usually, and really feeling at a loss for somewhere to turn. Ive made poor decisions, and my friends and family are sick to death of hearing about it and watching me go thru the b.s time and time again with no changes...My first boyfriend was an abusive f***tard also, who shot me 6 times and left me for dead (yeah, i actually put my parents thru that, just to do it again!), the one after that beat me and cheated on me like it was his job. Starting to see a pattern, eh? Its not these dumbasses and their ways ruining me, ITS ME!!!
IIIII need help, screw them...let them deal with their maker when the time comes, im gonna be happy and treat people well while im here. My happiness, MY CHILDRENS happiness depends on it. Problem is, i dont FEEL anything. Not happy, not sad, just kinda indifferent. I have no clue how to relate to my daughter (shes 7 now, and i feel like ive totally ruined our relationship) after being so tied up with my own mess and this loser that has been all consuming. I feel horrible for having let myself get here. I love my lil girl, more than anything, but dont know what to do with her, literally. Ive closed myself off and i dont know where to start to get me back. I dont like who ive become...an insecure, angry, lifeless lump pretty much.

I have no question, NOW, as to how i learned this behavior. All of my parents (all 4 of em) are alcoholics and were practicing while raising me so its no wonder im a little screwy in this department. 3 of the 4 have stopped drinking altogether for years now, so i do have examples that people CAN and DO get better...Dont get me wrong, i DO NOT expect my husband to get better, he doesnt see anything wrong (at least that i can tell, we dont talk much...about anything). He will die with cirrhosis or kidney failure, this isnt a guess, i am sure of it.

I, like others (i know now), keep on thinking that as soon as i leave, he'll change and end up treating someone else like a queen after all the time ive invested, i wanted that person to be me...i see now, there is NO way that will ever be me, or anyone else for that matter. If it does happen...c'est la vie...im spent. I have nothing else to give.

Anyhew, i wanted to thank ya'll for letting me vent and really putting some hope back in my life. I truly thought i was lost for good and was left with my own resources (cuz they've worked so well thus far *snicker*)to live my life miserably miserable.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!

January 16, 2007
4:12 pm
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startingover
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Hi all

I'm not so sure that alcoholism is NOT a disease rather than a learned behavior, but it makes little difference. The alcoholics I know are no more pleasant when not drinking than when they are, so I'm not sure that it is such a wonderful goal that they quit.

You are not alone, there are millions of people affected by someone'e else's drinking.

Your own resources have got you this far, that is indeed an accomplishment.

I still would recommend AlAnon, although they do teach that alcoholism is a disease, and even I have problems with some of the statements such as "living with an alcoholic can make one irritable and unreasonable". well, yeah, imagine being "irritable" when every holiday and weekend is ruined by the drunk, and that's the "tip of the iceberg, so to say. What that program has done for me is to make it be their problem, not mine, because whatever the cause, the alcoholic drinks and everyone around him suffers.

If you leave, he'll still be a drunk. You know exactly what someone else would be getting. A slobbery, excuse-making, mean or indifferent, impotent, forgetful and inconsiderate drunk (oh, that was my ex, not yours. See any similarities?!)

No, you are definitely NOT alone.

SO

January 16, 2007
4:32 pm
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passionflower
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HI Miserable.... I am not surprised to discover that your parents were alcoholics....you see, you were conditioned from an early age to accept what is totally unacceptable.

I hope you have started reading Doug Kelley's ebook on how to survive an alcoholic relationship. This is the first step you must take.

You have a history of severe abuse...you have been a victim of that abuse for so long, it is no wonder that you are so numb. What you need Miserable is a complete break...is there anywhere you can go, friends, non-alcoholics, non-recovering alcoholics where you can go for a few months? Anyone who lives quite some distance from where you are now where you can get some peace until your baby is born? Going back to your family, to an alcoholic environment in your state is not ideal...whether actively drinking or not. You need to get right away from all this. I would even suggest a women's refuge...I know they have several in Los Angeles.

What you need Miserable is a clean break. Please think carefully about this. Where could you go? It is difficult for me to advise you on this as I am in the UK and we would make provision for you here...such as a refuge and a home for you and your children and money to live. Please check what is available for you.

Nothing you say surprises me at all. I've heard and witnessed it all before. You are not alone in your situation...believe me, there are so many women who are in the same boat.

Could you please email Doug Kelley on http://www.empoweredrecovery.com. Go to the forum and email him or his wife Tracy. Put a note on the forum for help and advice. Most of them live in the US and they will respond to you....and be able to advise you, where I, because of my location am unable to do.

Stay strong and keep posting....take your daughter out of the house for walks as often as you can. Even if you can't respond to her right now, you can hold her hand....take care of yourself.

Why would you realise your partner was an alcoholic? You've been around it all your life...what's new? You're blind to it...because you've taught yourself to shut it out over many years. It's been a huge part of your conditioning. You were just able to open your eyes a bit wider for a while..to see the truth.

Best wishes.

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