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Learning to Respect?
October 22, 2006
12:49 pm
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artist 2
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Nearly two years of dating this man has passed and I still struggle with one issue: that is of respecting him.

He has never worked since I've known him. He lives off a pension from the last company he worked for. He does not know what he wants to do for a living now and is trying out different things.

One of the things he thinks about doing is a photo website where he would sell his photos, which are pretty good. Another thing he thinks about is selling real estate photos. He has asked me to help him, and I have agreed.

But, time goes by and months go by and he's still just rambling about taking miscellaneous shots, doing nothing in the way of starting a website for either of his ideas. He just talks a alot about it, doing not a whole lot.

Problem is, I'm losing most of my respect for him. One, he does a lot of talking and no action. Two, he does not work at all.

Another reason I'm losing respect for him is that he tells me many times he will do something and doesn't follow through. And, when he does do something he can't seem to plan ahead well enough to go to the next step. He doesn't bother to ask the necessary questions or think of tomorrow.

Thirdly, when he speaks, he doesn't seem to think about what repercussions his words can cause. He has embarassed me at public gatherings because he does not seem to care about self-control. I have no respect for him because he doesn't seem to have any integrity.

Nor does he seem to have any take-charge attitude. He just lets things fall apart around him and doesn't seem to know what to do about it.

So... I can't feel close to him or admire him much any more. It makes me sad because I was hoping he was the one. But, I can't be in a relationship with someone who has nothing to offer and whom I cannot respect.

I have been very very frustrated with all this and have told him so. He seems either not to know how to change or apathetic to the problem. I cannot stand to be around him for long periods of time because of all the evidence that makes me think he's not worth it.

Lastly, and on the good side, he's very intelligent, knows answers to my questions, and is very affectionate and giving of himself. This can be a problem, because his affection almost always leads to his wanting to have sex with me. I simply don't want to have sex with him because I don't respect who he is.

Should I talk to him aobut it (once again, hoping he can change), or break it off instead?

Keep in mind there is nearly two years of investment in this.

Any advice, questions, feedback is needed and welcomed.

Thanks,
Artist 2

October 22, 2006
1:08 pm
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revelation
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My ex never worked either...and he had all these great ideas too...saving up to buy a van so that he could do deliveries, join loads of "wedding" bands to make extra cash...never happened, and as far as I know it still hasn't. He's still 35, living at home with his parents and just getting odd-jobs here and their.

For me it wasn't a lack of respect, so much as I grew to resent him...constant promises to do something about it...and then excuses that he could do it because he was afraid, and he said he was afriad because he'd been emotionally abused by his father....oh blah blah blah blah blah....I wouldn't stay, not if its making you lose respect for him...do you think it could be resentment as well?

He sounds like a loser.

Rev.

October 22, 2006
1:14 pm
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cyndra820
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Artist,

Rev has a point. It sounds like you are just one step away from resenting him. Promising to do something and rarely following through. Makes you wonder what he'll be like in a few years.

If he's not decided what he wants to do he may honestly not know. If you do and his uncertainty is a real sticking point tell him so.

What is it that you want? Can you live with him the way he is? If the answer is no, I think you have your answer.

Regards,
Cyndra

October 22, 2006
1:21 pm
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artist 2
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Oh, yes... I do resent him. I resent his saying he'll do something and then finding out later it was a half-hearted attempt. It makes me wonder how much into the relationship he really is. He does not seem inspired to me at all. Except where sex is concerned. If that's the carrot, he's soooo inspired. It makes me sick.

I was thinking of telling him how I feel, and that is this: That I don't like myself with him. Because I do resent and get angry with myself because I repeatedly believe in him, and am nearly always disappointed. I get upset because I feel I'm wasting my time with him. I don't like to see myself so angry and resentful--to anyone.

October 22, 2006
2:10 pm
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atalose
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Have attempted to have this conversation with him before?
If things have been like this for the 2 years you have been together, it's a good bet things are not going to change, he sounds like he is confortable with his life and approaches things all with words, no follow through.
Have the talk with him and see his reaction, set boundaries or time frames for things to change, if nothing does, move on.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

October 22, 2006
2:26 pm
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Yeah, I've "scheduled" a time with him to talk about what happened during a recent trip we took together. I was really unhappy the whole time. For one, I didn't get the vacation I was needing. For another, because of his lack of planning, we had to spend the entire time staying in hotels, moving from one to the other. It wasn't all bad--we did do some pretty cool things together. But, I was feeling frustrated nearly the whole time we weren't actively doing something to absorb my attention.

It's just that I ask from time to time what he did that day. It's either reading and checking emails, playing with his photos, or working in the yard. He's not making any inroads to moving on with his career, and hasn't as long as we've dated. He talks about ideas, but mainly just plays most of the time. I resent this because he talks about wanting to move in together or get married. Yet, he makes no move to prepare for this. It's simply not possible if I disrespect and resent him.

I like the idea of setting a time frame, but at the same time it seems demanding. I once had a hard time figuring out what I wanted to do too, but at least I was actively trying on things. But, his lack of action is beginning to seem like laziness on his part. Yes, setting a time frame is a good idea. Maybe if something major doesn't happen by the end of the year, I'll plan on moving on and being alone for a while.

October 22, 2006
2:46 pm
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needtoheal
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I would get ridn of him... I spent 4 years too long with a man that did the same.....

Read the thread "doubleloss... i am here"

Let me know what you think...

Believe me, it could get only worse..

He will more than likely

not be able to change..

this is because he is not

able to look at himself;

does not have responsiblity...

From the heart---
Need

October 22, 2006
2:59 pm
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elizabeth anne
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Actions speak louder than words...

October 22, 2006
3:17 pm
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artist 2
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I've always said "Actions Speak Louder than Words." to him -- when trying to explain why I was bothered. He doesn't get it.

I will read the doubleloss thread.

Thanks,
Artist 2

October 22, 2006
3:39 pm
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needtoheal
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thanks artist2...
I am right by your side
just like so many
others have been there
to help me, guide me and
support me!!

Sometimes we do not have to explain ourselves to anyone...
I used to spend countless
hours and hours
cumulatively
trying to explain to this man
how I felt
what he did that hurt
but once i did so
he would get mad
get so nasty
tell me
that I am nothing
but someone who cannot
let go..

then i tried to explain that i can
let go.. but when he would do something that hurt me, I had to tell him...

he did not listen!!

He would strike back
with words
and tell me
that I am
just a pathetic, nagging, ragging, and clingy "C-NT!"

How many times did I try?

MANY
and got the same results...

But that does not matter to me
anymore..
I do not believe his words
and although he kicked me
when I was down
I no longer feel that
endless pain...

That is because I want
it to end....
I am worth more than
that....
I am worth respect
honesty
loyalty
love
honor
and the right to have my thoughts
and feelings expressed...

October 22, 2006
5:10 pm
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Rasputin
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Wow how I can relate to all of you here folks. The man I met & fell in love with 3 years ago lost his job the following year and moved into a gf's place and...ever since then he has not been able to find a job.

Ironically he's very smart, ambitious and hard-working fellow.

His gf is very co-dep girl who loves him unconditionally and I am pretty sure has very low self-esteem for allowing him to move into her place at the time when he lost his job. Worse off, he is using her for sex and for free accommodation. How many women out there would accept this style of life? I am pretty sure it is those with "Low self-esteem."

I don't know for how long his gf will continue to put up with him being a loser OR if they are STILL living with each other and if she kicked/did not kick him out YET for his laziness and unemployment or loss of direction/orientation.

I think the more we delay doing the right thing, the more chance we give to our depression, confusion and low self-esteem to stew, fester, and explode.

It really breaks my heart to see those 2 souls in denial about their life delaying their happiness and fulfillment. But then again, I believe "Happiness is a choice."

~Ras~

October 22, 2006
5:26 pm
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needtoheal
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Ras---

I am with you on that...

He and others used to tell me that things happen for a reason; or like the other night, he told me that IF IT WAS MEANT TO BE THEN IT WAS MEANT TO BE...

MY RESPONSE:

THINGS DO NOT HAPPEN FOR A REASON,

THINGS HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THE CHOICES

WE MAKE........

October 22, 2006
6:23 pm
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gracenotes
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artist2,

I would absolutely end up resenting someone like this. Your name is "artist2". I am guessing you are an artist and you work hard at what you do, and/or have a day job as well that takes up a lot of your time.

I used to date these kinds of guys. They're usually nice and laid back. But, after awhile I realized that I need to spend my time with more like-minded people who have more purpose and direction in their life. I have a friend who doesn't work, and this has been going on for quite awhile and I finally realized its just her game of avoiding responsiblity, not being able to deal with inevitable conflicts at work, and preferring to complain all the time about not having enough money to do the things she really would like to do vs. taking the responsibility of working. There's no physical or psychological reason that could cause her to be disabled and unable to work.

Starting any business is hard work. At some point in time, one just has to make up their mind to go ahead with the plan. I understand that excuse too, but the only answer to that excuse is to make a commitment to do something and do it. I started a business once. There was a lot of planning, running around, and working my tail off. If he had any sincere interest in getting this off the ground, he would be very busy.

Its not terrible to not work, but to live with someone who has no goals or directions in life when you do, and watch someone sit back and collect a check. Hmmmm, not my kind of person. I think both of you need to be with people who share more of the same values.

October 22, 2006
7:22 pm
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artist 2
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Thanks Gracenotes. I hear you loud and clear... it's going to be tough-going to talk to him. After over a year and a half of closeness, friendship and I-love-you's.

I'm also afraid to be alone, but I have friends and I have God. (sorry if that seems religious and offended any one.)

October 22, 2006
7:26 pm
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Rasputin
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Ditto NTH!!!!

October 22, 2006
7:31 pm
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gracenotes
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artist2,

Yes, this alone thing. I am feeling this, especially because I find that I cannot relate much to many of my friends anymore. I've changed, and sometimes they just resent it in various ways or I just have different interest interests now. But, as one door closes, another one opens. And, I think it always opens to better situations, people, etc.

Curious, what are you going to talk about? I hope that before you talk, you know exactly what you would want, and are not running on any fear of being alone. As you said, you do have friends and your spiritual strength.

October 22, 2006
9:25 pm
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revelation
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Oh my god!!! "Actions speak louder than words" I can't believe that, its so freaky...thats EXACTLY what I used to say to my ex...artist, if he's anything like my ex then please, get out as soon as possible. He'll suck every bit of self-esteem you have out of you. Please.

October 22, 2006
10:08 pm
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Anonymous
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Hi Artist,
It's hard to respect someone like you described. I agree with other posts about the resentment. It will only grow into something ugly if his behavior continues.

If he did experience abuse as a child, he needs counseling, but sounds like if he won't work he won't get that either.

Take care of yourself first. If you've spent two years and feel this way then there seems to be no future.

I'm working on lack of respect and resentment toward my h who tries to manipulate me and others (his Mother!)to do things for him and not have to take responsibility for actions. He is a recovering sex addict with a recent relapse we're still dealing with.

You can't love someone you don't respect....

October 22, 2006
10:13 pm
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Hey Artist -

Long time no talk to.

You know me "Mother Hen" so, I will give you the same advice I would give my daughters.

If you have no respect for him - and he has no job?

GET RID OF HIM.

You deserve better than that... AND deep down? You know it.

Z.

October 23, 2006
8:27 am
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artist 2
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Hey Zinnie... yes, it's been a while. You are sounding strong as ever. Thanks for your post. Well... and as many will say, "but I love him." and maybe that's all he has going for him - ?

Don't get me wrong, he looks like cake compared to some of the guys I've been with. But, I'm ready to talk goals and future and I don't think he can do that.

Well, we will see anyway.

Love,
Artist 2

October 23, 2006
5:54 pm
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artist 2
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I feel like I have to take up for this man now after reading the posts. He has no job because he does not need one. He's got this hugh pension and just seems to be enjoying sitting back... but it's been for two years for heavens sake!

I guess the main thing is that I'm disappointed in him because he doesn't have any ambition. He doesn't get fired up over anything else other than playing darts, drinking beer and hanging out with his buddies. Oh, and over sex.

I mean, he doesn't have any projects like politics, social issues, or the liks. I'm very political and the fact that he isn't just sort of bores me.

October 24, 2006
12:18 am
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Zinnie
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Ah... the "but, I love him" or "but, he loves me."

If he does not need to work - well then? Good for him! BUT... is he doing anything productive with his life?

Not trying to throw money in the face - but, my daughter (yes, my beautiful Lisa) does not need to work. She has a trust fund from her Father that well - should keep her, her spouse and any children should they decide to adopt, her pets and probably her neighbors in a good life. BUT (there is that word again!) - she IS working...

1. Making music

2. Painting & drawing

3. Helping her husband set up his new medical practice

4. Helping abused families. She has been stunned by the number of abused men

5. Working tirelessly to raise more money for the abused, as well as donating quite a bit of her own

and her proudest?

6. Establishing her foundation to pay for others to receive hearing aids or implants if they are unable to pay for them

Not saying that he needs to be THAT busy! I do worry that she over does because as much as I hate to admit it? She is "disabled" - yet, she says physically yes, but mentally - through this all? She became "enabled."

Sounds to me like you know you deserve more - you want someone that you can discuss things with - more than what the high dart score was and the number of beers he was able to put away before asking for sex.

Again... Artist my friend? You deserve SO much more.

Z.

October 24, 2006
5:49 pm
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artist 2
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Zinnie:

He does not do much with his life, no. He does serve lunch to the poor one day a week, but the way he describes it to me, he's doing it as a pennance to get into heaven.

I want someone who's active politically and/ or religiously; who's using his extra time to make changes, not to read and write a bunch of emails. He's a caring person, but I'm really bored with him. I can't believe some days he is just having coffee at 11:00 when I call!

I just don't see how we can have a very good future. Even if I were not in school, I would not be inspired by him. I need someone who feeds off me and I off him.

October 30, 2006
12:34 pm
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austSolution
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There are many different types of relatinships and we have to examine why we have the ones we keep. Is this a safety barrier? Are you afraid that if you move to make a change no one will love you? how about yourself? what keeps you with him?

I've been in that position as well so know the frustration that can ensue from someone having a monotonous or unsharing type of a life. IT feels very selfish and weird. But we have to accept that this is what they want. Do not be in the rltnship if you are expecting him to change. Good reltnships inspire change but don't necitate that. They can facilitate, only if willing however. The condition to the rltnship shouldn't be change it should be amity with the way the person is.

If this person is causing this level of reaction in you, how will it affect you long-term? Where does this leave you? You would want to consider your priorities at that. Also what is it you are seeking from the rltnship. These are deeply personal and in many ways spirtual questions yuo'll have to face and answer to let go....

November 3, 2006
1:49 pm
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artist 2
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What keeps me with him?
-- Comfort of having someone special in my life
-- Security of having someone smart to give advice
-- Enjoyment of someone who's always ready to have sex (when I'm ready)
-- Nurturing by someone who works to love me and with whom I can be myself (except for the earlier issues).

(You'll note I stay for all the things for ME. Trouble is I'm having trouble loving BACK.)

Thanks for feedback...

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