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Kthomas, lost soul(hope), cici, tears, askme & others
November 3, 1999
9:19 pm
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kitten
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Tears,'
Okay, I've been avoiding you all because talking here was making me feel worse. Now that I've been doing some reading I think the real me is coming back. Tears, dearest, I love you. What I want to say now may be hard, But I'm my best in crisis. I want you to have a friend take any and all pictures of the bruises,NOW!
Do not wait. You might need them later on. Please do it. Ask about an order to protect you from the police. Give copies of the photos to your lawyer and a close friend so they will not get lost. And PAINT. paint until you can't hold a brush anymore. Big canvas's, bold colors...do it! Your love and your inner woman will reveal itself. It might sound like new age crap, but try it. So, two things--protect yourself physically and protect yourself emotionally. The PFA will do the physical part and the painting will release the emotional explosiveness. You are experiencing a deep trauma and need to let things out so as not to do harm to your inner self. I want to post now because I want you to see this soon. I will keep writing, however.

November 3, 1999
9:43 pm
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Okay,
I don't know where you live, but in my state, the spouse that leaves is considered to be the one who has abandoned the home. Therefore the court looks on the remaining spouse in a better light. Be careful...you don't want to loose everything. But you won't...you have too many people praying for you!
Now, sweety, find someone who can hold you. A good friend--you need to feel safe. If not a friend find a church, someone who can wrap you in the arms of love. Because you are. God is with you. In every pocket of your soul. Reach in and pull out a bit--rub it on your face, through your hair, across your breasts. Feel the warmth, you are alive--vibrant, a wonderful creation. God looks at you and smiles...Spirit is pleased. You have been given the gift of creation. Just as your oils transform the whiteness of the canvas, your love will transform your life. Believe. You are enough. If he(your husband) stays or goes is not important...you will be whole.
Let go of the past, all the negative beliefs. Be in the here and now! You are strong, you have reason, purpose. I wish I could be there to help you...but I have to help you from here. And my way of helping is believing in you! I do! We are all the same voice
sister, mother, daughter...we are all one...we send you the comfort of our love. And you will be healed.
K
P.S Things have been changing with me, too, but I will tell you later. For now YOU have my attention and my prayers!

November 4, 1999
11:02 am
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Cici
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Tears,

It's great that he has admitted he has a serious problem. I don't want to sound mercenary, but I think you should use this to your advantage. I mean, as long as he admits he did something wrong, you can rightfully request that he go hang out somewhere else for a while while you sort out your feelings and try and get better yourself, you know?

I think you know you need some "you" time...

much love,
C

November 4, 1999
11:02 am
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Newby, Kitten thankyou for your heartfelt responses.
I am really saddened that I did not hear a peep from anyone else, I feel quite abandoned..
Well, I took two photos of the bruises but they are now yellow and may not show up on photo.
I am going to enquire about an order to have him leave and protection today.
I will let you know
Dear Kitten:
I have not spoken to you much at all, but you are a sensitive soul like myself. I too am not a "basket case" I function very well as a mom and career woman.
I really have had a dark night of the soul these past four days and I have realised how much denial i have been in about him and my family, taking a lot of blame upon myself.
I am sicked by how much blame i have taken, it is so sad, I have done this all my life.
I am no longer going to do this to myself ever again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am going to be free of him and them and be alone.
It will be hard, but the best things are the hardest.
I will not get into another relationship untill my therapist feels I am ready.
I am going to my first session tonight.
I cant wait.
I dont trust him with my children and have arranged a friend to babysit.
God, it is a mazing how ones world turns in a matter of days.
I feel like my head is clear for the first time in years.
I am so scard, I went through hell with my ex, and the courts here do not see spousal battery as making him a bad father, the revenge and abusors behavior worsen after you leave them
My ex did not even want to see my daughter untill he saw i was gone for good and there was no more controlling me, thats when he got out his huge bank account, hired an unscrupulous lawyer and then began the real control with the help of the courts.

November 4, 1999
11:05 am
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oh and bless you cici, yes I am going to ask that he leave tonight, if he refuses then im going to get tough. I dont want to kill what chance we may have left to heal.
He has NEVER been this way before in terms of remorse, guilt, acknowledgment, depression and acceptance, never..it looks promising, but I do need time apart from him. Its going to be hard because I have spent all my savings and Have no income for a couple months coming in..:(

November 4, 1999
11:09 am
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as far as me not trust ing him with the children, well I just dont like him anymore. He has NEVER hit or disciplined the children with spanking at all, I wont allow it. I have done the complete opposite to what I went through in my family of origin. They just have priviledges taken away.
I just feel very protective right now.

November 4, 1999
11:11 am
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hey this is uncanny, he just phoned me and told me hes going to be moving out this weekend!!
Thank god!
Hes going to get his counselling, I mind and marital together, afterwards.
Thank god, hallelujah!!!!!!!

November 4, 1999
11:14 am
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Time to heal! This is what it needed, to come to a head and now the real healing takes place, thankyou everyone. I will be fine, I am getting some support together here and i begin counselling tonight. This feels really right! He will still support us and hes NOT taking the computer.

November 4, 1999
8:31 pm
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thanks for the overwhelming replies everyone.....god i feel bitter

November 4, 1999
10:10 pm
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tears, this is a time for you to heal. Even if the replies aren't quick there are people out here praying for you. There is no advice from me. I have been reading everything and I know you know what you must do. I can't give you the strength. You must get it from yourself and your God.
I support you and hurt for you but most of all I pray for you. You are beautiful, worthy and deserving of living a peaceful, contented, love filled life. Do not think that no replies mean no care. Sometimes it is better to let people live. But yes, sometimes you need to know that you aren't alone. So I am telling you I care and am praying for you. But no advice. God bless you. Love Valli

November 4, 1999
10:35 pm
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Tears,
I am here. My prayers continue. Sleep well!
K

November 5, 1999
7:24 am
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Hi tears,
Right, where do we start?!
Firstly, I am so sorry I haven't written sooner, I havent been able to get any time alone, but I want you to know you and everyone else here are in my thoughts each and every day, a day does not do by when I don't mentally say hello to you and wish you peace and love.

Okay so Halloween, right do you remember when I posted about my partner doing coke? That night / weekend was the absolute limit for me, like this time has been for you. I felt a wave of revolsion for him that I had never felt before. I was so angry that this man that I loved felt nothing for me that he would let our lives continue in this way. I told him how ifelt, i told him that he made me sick and i just wanted to forget i had ever known him. He knew i meant it too.
i think i understand where you are, it is like waking up from a coma, it is hard to beleive you have been kidding yourself for so long. You suddenly feel such anger that he can trea you like this, but you feel angry that you have allowed it to happen, that is what really makes you mad! You also get SO ANGRY that people who were meant to love you in your childhood, like your mother in my case, could treat you so crap that you en up tolerating shit fro people who are meant to love you. I'm still dependent on my mother at the moment and although we get on better, I am still at the mercy of her temper, even now. How are we meant to love freely when our only experience of love through our lives has been conditional? If your life is anythin like mine, you have had to buy love by being what people want of you each and every time until you feel like an actress who deserves an oscar!

So, may be some of this sounds familiar to you, i dont know. But when yo wake up from all this, it s like seeing clear for the first time, you will be angry for a while, that is natural.

Yu are right in your efforts to be independent,

But, i do find it encouraging that your partner is moving out and seeking help.
My partner has changed so much since I kicked his butt for his behaviour. I think it hit home, i think he had as much of an awakening about his behavior as i did that weekend. He has said the other day how he thinks back now every day when he wakes up. about how he was and just wants the ground to swallow him up he is so embarrassed and ashamed.
It could be (not definitely) that your partner was also blind to his behaviour. This does not excuse him, and you are right to be seperate for the moment, but with my partner, he now takes responsibiliy for what happened, whereas before he would always find someone else he could blame. He has a long way to go, but I d see progress.
I still make me my priority, I will never go back t where i was before. I am still very angry. But at the moment i am coasting along waiting to see how things go while I concentrate on me and the things i need to cure in me.

From the outside i seems that there is still alot of love between you two. You were jealous with his behaviour and vanity abot his costume, this is why he played it up, he was getting validation from you that you cared still, of course he will try to make you jealous, it is his way of knowing you still care.

You threw the milk at him! good shot!!, only kidding.
This again is an indication of love beleive it or not, if you really din't care, YOU would have let the room.
He hit you back. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND I AM TOTALLY AGAINST THIS ACTION ON HIS PART, HE SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE THIS, HE SHOULD HAVE LEFT THE HOUSE AND COOLED OFF. however, he does seem to understand that this was wrong. Was this pure bullying on his part or was he also dealing with feelings he couldn't control? I dont know, the point is things must never get to this stage between you again, he must stay away until he is able to process his emotions in a healthier way.

You must protect yourself and your kds first tears, but i am glad that you are bth ging to get councelling because I am not convinced that in your case, the relationship is necessarily over. It needs to change, yes, he needs to see what he is very close to losing and you need to keep that pressure up.
I say this because, he has left, he will support you and the family and he has realised that you need the computer and he has not used that to blackmail you, he has left the dcomputer for you. That is an encouraging sign. Had he been shitty to yo since then, had he threatened t take the kids or anything else i would say divorce his arse, but at the moment he seems to be shwing the first signs of awareness of his behaviour.

I will say, be very careful, live in reality and don't daydream about things that may not happen. Take things day by day. Even if he does change you may decide that you don't want to know anymore, i still feel like that from time to time, but do what you want.
if you want to try and work on things with him then do, you know him better that anyone else, you know if he is making the effort or not.

Please understand i am not condoning his behaviour, it had been very wrong, but i also dont wan to say to you that he is pure evil and you must split with him for good because life is not that simple. You are smart, you have seen things in a new light, I know that if he he shws the first signs of ever trying to push you around again you will make damn sure he regrets it,
That evening has changed you, you will neve take that crap gain, I hope the evening changed him too, so that he realises that he must never risk hurting you again.
I think we are are in a similar place right now tears, I too have given my partner a 100 chances before, but I wasn't serious, i was only playing at splitting from him, this was the first time i really meant it, I would have pushed him out, and I would have been SO OKAY with it, so in a way this was the first time he really risked losing anything, all the other times i was really saying " sweetie, please don't be nasty, I will always take your crap but it would be really nice if you didn't do it!" no wonder things never changed before, I was allowing it to continue. This was the first time i said " leave! you need to wake up to yourself you loser, don't bother me until you have changed this, this and this"
I dont know if any of this makes any sense to you, i am only assuming that some of this may be relevent to you, let me know and keep talking.

Take care of yourself Tears, im so sorry you have been having a rough ime, but it needed to happen didn't it?
What ever happens now at least it will be movement, you have broken the cycle you were in, make sure you get what you want, what ever that is.
HUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hazza

November 5, 1999
10:45 am
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kitten
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Hazza,
Even tho' your post was directed to Tears, I want to thank you. I have noticed in the past few weeks how many of my so-called friends have been tearing away at my Lover's personality. They have told me to walk away, he doesn't love me, etc. What they don't realize
is, that by discrediting him they are doing the same to me. If he is bad, then I must be bad for loving him so much. Granted if it is a situation where I am living a dream, then I must go. But if important pieces of the bond remain, then it is up to "us" to work thru that. Everything takes work. Everything. Even the pain.
Tears, dear, Hazza is right. You have shifted things in the universe, broken the pattern. You can't go back to what you had...there has to be movement. It's just
physics. Keep going and don't look back. You will get where it is you want to go. I send you a big smile!!!

November 5, 1999
11:03 am
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Kitten-

I disagree. When people criticize your partner, they are in no way criticizing you. I don't think anyone thinks you should answer for anyone else, whether they do good or bad. If my partner does something good, good for him. If he does something bad, bad for him. Non of it falls on my shoulders, though. I think you're a very strong person to go through what you've gone through, and I don't judge your partner. You've written here in your darkest hours and we've only see a stilted version of what he is, through your eyes of anger and hurt. So he is what he is, I only judge how he makes you feel sometimes...

Tears -

Congrats! I knew you could make it. I'm glad you had this message board to help you work through your feelings. Sometimes, when bad things happen to me, i have to be by myself for hours, thinking about what's wrong and how I can react to it in a positive way, making things better, instead of worse. You did this admriably! You go girl (ha ha ha).

Hazza -

What's up girl? I haven't talked to you in a while. I hope everything is ok now for you. Or at least regaining it's own balance.

I've been doing good. I got away from my parents and am staying with my asian friends. All they do is study and rent videos, so it's been a pretty calm week.
My boyfriend is taking me to the opera next week, to see Mozart's Don Giovanni. Isn't that so sweet you could projectile vomit al over the computer screen? He's going to Amsterdam for a week at the end of this month, so this is his way of making things up to me. I'm pretty damn jazzed. I feel like a schmuck, though, saying this when everyone else seems to upset. I feel lucky waking up to him every morning. I feel blessed. You guys don't know how much this board has helped me through the roughest times.

Smooches!
Cici

November 5, 1999
11:52 am
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kitten
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Cici,
I'm talking about the line..."I wouldn't put up with that"...as if I don't have the intelligence to see. Yes, his behavior is him, but it still hurts me when people attack him. Maybe it doesn't make sense, but this is all a big journey to find what works for us. I have three friends who have said that to me, but they put up with behaviors from their partners I wouldn't put up with. See what I mean? Well, maybe I'm not making sense...I've got too many classes going on and TOO many papers I'm writing. Have a big presentation on Monday on Cognitive Behavior...Is it possible to have too many thoughts in one's head at a time?

November 5, 1999
12:19 pm
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Kitten,

I agree with you. I was with someone that I knew was a dead beat but I defended him with everything I had. I had to because, in all actuality, I was defending myself for being with him. If someone attacked him or put him down it felt like they were putting me down or attacking me because I had chosen to be with him. We're probably not supposed to feel this way but how do you not?

November 5, 1999
1:00 pm
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develop a self

November 5, 1999
1:04 pm
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I know what you're saying Tears. That is the problem with being a co-dependant. The problems with "him" are not our problems. I'm trying to remember that. It's not easy.

November 5, 1999
4:52 pm
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I'm afraid I don't know what to say anymore. I am me, a product of my experience. I am trying to come into awareness of myself--it is a struggle. My lover is a good man. We are both dealing with our own "stuff". Our conversation on tuesday leads me to believe we can survive this, together. Yet, he has hurt me deeply. I want support...I need it. All of this turmoil has tired me out. My thinking is cloudy. Maybe I should sleep. I will go now. Love to all...

November 5, 1999
10:04 pm
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Tear....my goodness girl...i take a week off the internet and wow...honey I am so sorry. My prayers are with you and do I ever understand the roller coaster emotions you are experiencing now. Kitten is right...protect yourself with pictures, and any kind of documations that may be needed in the future. The courts like that for some reason. I am so glad he is moving out...Maybe he has scared himself this time. I hope your counseling session was a comfort to you.

Go slow...try not to solve everything at once...and keep giving yourself to God as many times as needed. We seem to keep taking ourselves back constantly don't we? And know that you are cherished here. We all care so much about you...i care! I keep you in my prayers dear tears, praying that you are being craddled in the arms of angels and being filled with his love and peace. May you see yourself as God sees you...a wonderful child of God. I will be checking on you...hugs...Karin

November 5, 1999
10:21 pm
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Hello friends...forgive my absense please. I am going through some down time of my own lately. I had to stop counseling until after the first of the year. That was a tough decision to make...but there was really no other option at this time. My husband is still in Jail and in a way I am jealous of him because he is getting counseling in there now and seems to be doing some emotional growth of his own. Really i am happy that this is happening. But it is still me here keeping everything together and stressing over finances. And now the holidays are approaching. Ugh.

I feel kind of selfish coming back and just talking about myself. but i guess this is just a great site to vent and let off the pressures of the world without the fallout that comes when venting in the real world.

I don't know what to do with my anger anymore. I was beginning to feel so insane and scared at what my counselor was showing me. Denial is key here. I don't want to believe certain things about myself. I rather blame Tim for my problems. And yet he is being so damn understanding and encouraging me to do whatever I need to learn to love myself. and he is for real...I guess as someone said above, when they know it's come to the last straw...they become perfect mates all of the sudden (if you can be perfect from a jail cell.).

Sorry I am running on and on about nothing really. Take care and I will be talking to you soon.

November 6, 1999
3:54 pm
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What is this horrible place I've landed in? One minute I'm coping and the next I want to die. One minute I am certain of my path, the next I don't want to move. I read, I write, I draw...the internal ticking keeps getting louder. The loss of my lover reminds me of the pain I felt when I lost my mother. That, "oh my God, I'll never see her, smell her perfume, or feel the touch of her hands. Never. UGGGGGHHHH! Sometimes I even have the urge to vomit. What do I tell myself? How do I get from one day to the next? And what part do boundaries play in all of this? Does this mean when I fall in love I let go of my boundaries? How do they get put back up? And why does my therapist believe lover-boy is coming back? They have met a few times(he has gone to session with me), and the therapist says he sees his patterns. The biggie being control. That's nice...I'm so glad everyone else knows what is going on. I know I put my wants on the table--that I have to wait and see. This is insane, tho'. I know how to swim, but I feel like I'm drowning!

November 7, 1999
10:22 am
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All, I survived the night...sleep was allusive. And tears would not come. Am I all cried out? I keep thinking of our last conversation the other day. My lover and I spoke in very gentle and loving tones. We agreed to meet for coffee in the morning and discuss plans for dinner later on this week. Well, I got there first and spoke briefly with another friend who told me about someone we both know who is very sick. At that moment my lover walked in and gave me a dirty look
I immediatly went to his side so we could talk. He was distant and cold. After a bit he seemed to warm up,but when it was time to leave he expected me to go with him. I wanted to stay to give my friend money for the collection he was taking to send flowers to the sick one. My lover, who never admits jealousy, stormed out to his car and left. I have not heard a word since. I tried to call on friday, but he won't return my call. I am the most loyal person I know...I would never cheat on him! I feel as if I failed a test. Did he think breaking up would put me back in line--that from now on I'd wear a veil over my face? In the meantime I imagine he is out having fun with others while I am beside myself with loss. Everyone who knows him says no way...he is too uptight to be with anyone but me. And it's true. He is an expert at his profession, but when it comes to private emotions he is a little boy. With me he became free to explore his passion in an environment of safety. We did have a spritual connection that at times would shake his entire being.
He can only trust what he knows: success at his job. The results are obvious and more immediate, more concrete. In relationship there is always the risk of doubt. Anyway...here is the big problem. Tomorrow is my birthday. Forty-one. I have spent the last three birthdays with him, complete with romantic dinners, candlelight, and champagne. Wonderous nights. It looks like this year I will be alone. My children know how sad I am and I feel sorry for their pain. They know the struggle I've had to face with the death of their father and his prior behavior. I feel like a child. It's like when I was a little girl. I really wanted a puppy...I read all about care giving, saved money for a collar and leash, spoke constantly about what I would call him. When the day of my birthday arrived I ran downstairs to see if he was there. Instead, my mother had gotten me a stuffed cat. I looked at her with questioning eyes--she didn't say a word, but turned back to her newspaper. That was it...I got what I got. So, here I will be without him, celebrating a day that doesn't seem worth celebrating. When you get older those around you think those things don't matter
but they do. I can't even go out and buy myself anything...with school and all money is very tight. Forgive me. I will stop droning on. As my therapist says: "got to keep moving". Thank you for listening. Oh, and Karin, welcome back. I missed your raw honesty!

November 7, 1999
10:29 am
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Hi Kitten...what you wrote about your mother...that you will never see her, smell her perfume or feel the touch of her hands, made me cry. I lost my mother thirty years ago. hard to believe she has been gone almost the length of years she was alive (she passed on at the age of 32). I found a mothers love again when i married my husband...I had her for two wonderful years before God took her home. It was like losing my mother all over again. My father has been gone 5 and a half years now. I have experienced so much loss in my life. From the age of eleven on. I am the oldest one left...and sometimes that scares me. i used to have such a big family but the big "C" word has claimed so many. Anyway...and with my husband in jail...i am so lonely. He calls and writes me but...I am still concerned that once he does get out (and that may not be for EIGHT YEARS) he will pick up his old habbits and i will have to go through all the hurt and pain of separation again. We let our gaurd (boundries) down and we pray that we don't get squashed again...love is a risk...if we do not take the risk...we may never know true love. I don't want to go through life alone...when there is no family to support us emotionally we seek that in our mate. I wish I had magical words to help you feel stronger and less like you are drowning. But I am barely staying above water myself. And i find it hard to take my own advice at the moment...

November 7, 1999
10:37 am
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Kitten we must have been posting at the same time. We are the same age. I spent my birthday alone for the first time this year too. (mine was in Sept). And it was so strange...my children tried to make it special.. but the lack of my husband made it empty. And this was before he went to jail and there was no reason for him not to do something. Treat yourself to something special...even if it's a nature walk in a park or fixing yourself a nice dinner with your kids. And Happy Birthday Kitten.

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