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Kthomas, lost soul(hope), cici, tears, askme & others
October 24, 1999
3:28 pm
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kitten
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Welcome back KThomas, I've missed your intensity. So glad your vision is improving!!!
Tears--am I right, or is what I say just words? I am in a very needy place right now. It's day four and I just came back from the therapist. He said M.L. is coming back, I've just got to wait and be strong. yeah, right. Oh, man...I can't write...

October 24, 1999
3:54 pm
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KTHOMAS
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Thank you Tears...I know I am among friends here.

October 24, 1999
6:11 pm
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Kitten you are very wise, who is m.l explain more friend? We all get into needy places and its brave to admit it, but if you cant bear the company you keep when you are alone, then we need to really re-examine our lives and do the work necessary to enjoy being alone and knowing who we are alone with:)
great karin, you are a very loving person and i believe in you, try to keep most of the focus on you sweetee and hang in there...we are all in this together.

October 24, 1999
6:55 pm
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Cici
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Tears,
Woo boy. Of course, I know my parents have this sort of bizarre relationship. They probably might have split up a long time ago if it wasn't for their old fashioned values. My mom always says my dad is the only man she'll ever marry...not necessarily the only man she'll ever love. I really respect you trying to work on your relationship, rather than just giving up out right. I think in a way, that takes a lot more courage...

October 24, 1999
9:59 pm
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thanks sweetee, that statement is very wise and loving. bless you.
Hey cici, you should buy Louise Hays book"Life" 101 reflective meditations and "You can heal your life" by the same author.
It will be really good for you.
I REALISE THAT OBSSESSING ABOUT WHAT OUR PARTNER ISNT GIVING US, KEEPS US FROM DOING THE REAL WORK WHICH IS FACING THE PAIN WITHIN OURSELVES AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT WE ARENT GIVING US....

October 24, 1999
10:10 pm
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i HAD A BEAUTIFUL DAY TODAY...............:):)WE ALL DID

October 24, 1999
11:17 pm
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kitten
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Tears,
M.L. is "my lover"...I got tired of typing that, hense... I am, actually, very comfortable with myself. I read a great deal, I'm artistic, I love to cook, and I'm always fixing things(curse of an old house). So, no, I like who I am, but I don't like being without that one particular man in my life. And, like I said before, I don't want to feed into that disposable mentality that seems to be everywhere. Maybe he won't come back--I pray he does, and most of my friends(plus my therapist) are confident that he will. However, his leaving has brought up so many things for me. I realized the other day that for my enire life someone very close to me has died every three years--friends, grandparents, mother, husband, etc. All people I loved, gone in a flash. Now here is this man, because of his fear, has left me. It's almost as if he's wasting valuable time. We could be together working on our problems, instead of miserable apart. Maybe I hear a clock ticking somewhere and I'm afraid I'll never get enough before it rings. One thing I did realize today was that most of my early life(up to age 20) was spent trying to get my mother's
love--we had a terrible relationship. When she became ill, spending the last three months of her life writhing in pain, I stopped trying. I instead concentrated on giving her love. Well, on one of her last days she admitted to me that I was indeed a "good girl" and for the first time ever kissed me on the mouth. At least she passed truly knowing my love and recognizing her own capacity to love me. It might be crazy, but I have to stop trying to get M.L. to love me. I want to surround myself and my thoughts of him with pure love, accepting that Spirit will guide both of us in the right direction. It is, however, hard, for I crave that acceptance and that loving kiss. Peace to all!

October 25, 1999
8:46 am
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Cici
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I have a general question...do you guys think there's a time limit to happiness in a relationship? Like, specifically, you know how everythin oges great when you first start seeing someone and then after a while things just..., well, change? Also, does that change coincide with feeling more comfortable or intimate with someone? I'm just looking to more experience women for advice, being that I've only had two LTR's in my short life.

Thanks!

Cici

PS - Tears, I'm doing well on my road to recovery. I got to have a glass of Chianti with my Dad for his birthday dinner and I didn't want any more. The meetings are going well. It's cool to be able to share what you're going through with people who keenly understand your predicament. Thanks for the support!

October 25, 1999
12:40 pm
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CiCi,

Is there a time limit to happiness in a relationship?
I don't think there should be. I tell my husband all the time, you don't love me the way you did before. He tells me "I'm in it for the long haul baby!" What does that mean? He's stuck now? He does not believe in divorce. He says he would not be able to live without me. I'm not so sure. I think I bring him down because I always feel so miserable. I know I put too many expectations on him. I think for me to ever be happy in this relationship I am going to have to stop feeling so insecure. And start trusting in my eternal Father. When I stop focusing on what I don't have and what God has given me I am filled with joy. I just want to be able to feel a peace inside when things get crazy. And I know that will only come from a lot of soul searching and positive thinking. The more I realize that this life is so short and I have to cherish every minute, things get a little easier. The second I stop looking up and I start looking down, I fall flat on my face and forget what is really important. I also know now that my husband is incapable of really making me happy, I am the only one who can do that. I do have a choice, I can just give up on myself, or I can find inside of me the confidence I need to smile and say I am going to make it. Take care,

Jaskid

October 25, 1999
3:12 pm
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Just like life, relationships are journeys rather than destinations. Kitten, my husband and I had two seperations and each one helped us tremendously.
Accept that your lover is gone and dont look for him to come back right now. Everything begins and ends in divine right time and relationships are like sand in your hand, if you graps too tightly it all falls through your fingers.
See this as the perfect time for you to do the NECESSARY WORK TO FEEL COMFORTABLE AND HAPPY WITH YOURSELF. I too am spiritual and artistic, both great gifts in my healing.
It is important to see each day that we are given as a blessed gift from the creator to do with it what we choose. namaste

October 25, 1999
3:13 pm
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Hey cici, I think you are a real heroine, you are doing so well considering all that you have suffered. You will look back one day and be so proud of how much you have done with your life and so will your family.
Blessings

October 25, 1999
5:21 pm
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kitten
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In the past two weeks I feel as if I've been taken to an unknown place. I am seeing things in a different light. I do, however, struggle with my sense of neediness. KThomas, Tears, Hope, Cici, and everyone else--I am asking for your help. I have never really been close to women before, but now I see that you are all the voices of the collective soul. There is no right or wrong, but rather lessons to be learned. I am trying to let go of ego in order to hear your words. I wish to experience your nuturing...it is something I've only given, never received. Each of you is another piece of the puzzle, which I alone can put together.
Yet, it is scary, not knowing if I am loved...

October 25, 1999
8:44 pm
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your words made me cry..im going to think about what i want to say to you Kitten, because I feel the importance of your plea. Give me a little time and I will post to you tomorrow..blessings friend

October 26, 1999
2:57 pm
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Cici
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Kitten...

What a heaviness I feel suddenly. I will speak from my heart. I think that love is something that everyone deserves, in the sense of Carl Rogers' "unconditional positive regard." But I also think that many times, deep down inside, we don't think that we deserve love. And we don't even realize that we feel this way about ourselves. But we desperately search for the superficial appearance of love because it is frightening being alone.

But I see that you have found out that in the fear, there is a certain liberation in being alone. You have made an active decision. You need to make your own life meaningful and appreciate your own uniqueness. You need to love yourself. Stop. Don't say anything. Do you truly love yourself? Everyday? Or do you think you don't live up to your own standards sometimes?

Look at yourself honestly and acceptingly FIRST. Then, you can try to learn to love yourself...completely, for all your faults and shortcomings. You are a perfect creation, and all your perceived imperfections are only external, and not of the spirit.

October 26, 1999
3:06 pm
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Cici
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Hey Tears,

I know I sounded kinda bitter on the love thread. I'm pretty tired...I got a new puppy on Saturday, so he keeps me up all hours of the night. It's like having a baby but instead of changing diapers you have to get up and go outside!

It's good to have my own project (Norman, the puppy) again. I'm doing some volunteer peer counseling at school, looking into career counseling and social work (I was offered an internship and I AM a psych major). It's weird to see how far I've traveled in the past few months. From see-sawing on the emotional rollarcoaster of drug dependence to now...no more drugs, infact I don't even smoke cigarettes any more (ok...I had 2 when my dad went to the hospital!). I feel for the first time since I started using drugs...happy, fulfilled, busy.

Not happy...content. I feel content.

October 26, 1999
8:35 pm
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wow, im blown away cici sis...........wow

October 26, 1999
9:41 pm
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KTHOMAS
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CiCi...you are doing great! šŸ™‚ Funny how life opens up once we lift the fog. I am really proud of you. Way to go...and keep on going...:):):)

Kitten...what a sweet soul you have. You really do remind me of a kitten. Since I've been coming to this site I have seen some real growth in so many of us. We didn't find this site by accident and I believe we do all touch one anothers lives like ripples in the water...we may never know how as each ripple sends another ripple and so on and so on. There is growth and healing in lonliness. I am alone this week...my son is visiting his grandmother for a week (fall break) and Tim is still in jail and I am alone really for the first time. And it's ok. But very lonley. šŸ˜‰

Nurturing is a key word to me...we are all looking to be nurtured...because we never were as children? I think so...could that be what we are looking for when we pick our mates?????? Hmmmmm. I guess I'm in a thoughtful mood tonight...my counselor has the flu and we had to reshedule our appointment today for next week. So darn...i had written down a list of things I wanted answers to. šŸ™‚ This too was ment to be?

Better stop now as I am making little sense.

Sorry

October 26, 1999
9:53 pm
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Kitten, I too had a problem being close to women. We can offer our soul sisters so much in the way of nurturing, hope, companionship and love...as we all begin to love ourselves.........
I used to hang out with guys and had long term relationships with guys since the age of 13. It was crippling and enforced the negative beliefs I had learned in my screwed up homelife.
I am having a really hard time letting my mother back in my life, she wants in cause she feels all alone now, but she has done the worst things to me and my family. I really dont think its a good idea, even if my dying brother is putting a big fu*****g guilt trip on me about it. I have to think of ME, this is my new pattern me, what do I want instead of what is best for every fu**** one else!!! ahh had to get that out.
I am dreading xmas..:(

October 26, 1999
11:35 pm
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kitten
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Cici, I am sorry for the heaviness...they were the best words to discribe what was in my heart. I have been alone for a long time, struggling with many things. I remember being nine years old and writing out my last will and testement. What made me do that? Nine year olds should be out playing in the sunshine. I do believe people around me (growing up) tried to give me the proper mirroring I needed(love, trust, safety), but this was not provided by my mother--which meant I always viewed the cup half empty. Later, when I had to walk three miles, my belly full of child, to get something to eat because my husband went off for the weekend leaving me without anything, I again thought it was my problem. I don't know if any of this makes sense. And I thank all of you for being so gentle with me. But right now I just want to scream.
I want my man back! Everyone else is gone: my mother, my husband...I don't want to loose this man too. Not because of things our parents did to us. I know he is miserable, just like me. I know too, that his mother has always rejected him--he's not good enough, and this is another dose of that. The one person who said she would love him no matter what(me), rejected him. So here we are, both unhappy and apart. I just want
this to end...for God to whisper in his ear, tell him that it's safe to love again. All I can think of is the scene in Peter Pan when Tinkerbell was hurt. Wendy turns to the audience and asks everybody to clap so that Tinkerbell would know she's loved and would survive. Here I am, a grown woman, wanting to believe in a fairy...Oh, boy, I've got to get a grip. Forgive me, I'm insane now...maybe tomorrow I'll be better

October 27, 1999
6:57 am
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Hi Kitten,
Please try to remember in this hard time you are experiencing that you are loved. I know exactly what you are talking about in regards to not recieving maternal love, i iknow how it affects us for the rest of our lives but please don't lose hope. You are forming relationships with us here and that is a good start in creating women to women friendships. It is very hard to relate to woman when you didn't have a good relationship with your mother. I spent years trying to get that kind of feeling from other people but it just doesn't work out that way. It was only when i accepted that i didn't have that special bond with my mother and stopped feeling bitter about it that i could lay some of the pain to rest.
I understand how you feel, you remind me of myself in many ways, i too as a child spent as much time planning my dream funeral as other girls may plan a dream wedding!
You do have other things in your life i am sure, do you have children? try to focus as much as you can on the other aspect of YOU and YOUR LIFE asides from the man you are craving, i know this is hard to do, it is a lesson that all of us are trying to learn every day, but it does help if you practise.
You have had to face so many hardships before now that it is so easy to hope that someone will come and make it all dissappear, that person though is YOU, once you can give yourself that love you wont need to depend on anyone else, you will be free to enjoy your relationships without depending on them.
You can only determine your own evolution not that of anyone else. If you are able to talk to your partner about how you feel then great, explain to him all your feeling for him and the relationship and what you want from it but after that you can do no more, how he responds is his own evolution even if you think it is not the best thing for him, whatever he decides is not in your control and you must accept that.
Pleas try to take some comfort that everyone here cares alot for you and we all want to help you in any way we can, even if you know there is someone here who wants to listen then at least that is a start,
Take care
Hazza

October 27, 1999
7:01 am
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Hi cici,
I am SO pleased for you, it sounds like you have turned so many things around its great. Where are you living now, i keep getting a bit lost with the posts?

Oh gosh, i am just so happy, its made my day and im not even clint eastwood!

Tell us about your Puppy, im very jealous i love puppies!!
Speak soon
Hazza

October 27, 1999
9:20 am
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Cici
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Kitten (and everyone!),

I too had problems associating with women. Luckily I have two older sisters who are more like my mom than my mother is. I had one very close best friend, a girl, from the time I was 9 until I was 19. She betrayed me, but I began to realize why, even though I loved her and trusted her and felt so angry. After the anger at being left (for my boyfriend) subsided I realized something: these people we love so desparately who treat us so awfully don't know how to love. They think that they don't deserve love and push us away even as we try desperately to give more and more of ourselves. And there is, unfortunately, nothing you can do for them. They must first realize, on their own, that this is their problem. Then, they must heal themselves. And no one can do that for them. Not me for my bestfriend, not you for your husband.

All you can do is hope and pray that he can heal himself, but you MUST go on and grow and search for your own fulfillment. In doing so, you further yourself along your life's path. Right now, you stand still, in the middle, looking back. In time, you will look forward again. What a cliche, right? Time heals all? Well, it really does, once you let go of the old angers and fears and regrets.

I'm lucky. I lost myself for a good year. I think my spirit went somewhere else. When it returned, after I stopped doing drugs, I found myself with new understandings. It was as if I was new! I'm still afraid. I wouldn't be human if I was. But I am glad to be afraid...it gives me the opportunity to show myself that I am strong and courageous and I want to face my fears.

Come on over to my side! šŸ˜‰

October 27, 1999
9:26 am
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Cici
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Norman! He's a black lab mix, with little white paws. He's only 2 months old, but he can already sleep through the night (I think he's a fast learner), so I'm starting obedience training next week. I have an older dog, a shaggy terrier mutt who's a girl. She plays with him and they sleep all curled around each other in her bed. I love dogs!

Next Tuesday I go to a seminar for peer counseling and career counseling. Hopefully, I'll get the internship! Please put me in your prayers!

KThomas...I think we do look for nurturing when we look for partners. I am always attracted to stern, responsible men who tend to drink too much. Why? This is the exact description of my father!!! Ack!! I never realized this until my sister, after meeting my latest boyfriend, commented that he was even short like my dad, and obsessed with football. Hmmm. Help!

October 27, 1999
6:38 pm
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Thank you Cici and Hazza,
(and everyone else for keeping me in their prayers)
This man I love is unlike any other. He does not fit my patterns.(I go for Bad Boys) He is responsible, talented, ambitious, and sensual. We have a great relationship most of the time. Then he becomes the
"other one". The man I don't know. Something triggers a part of his brain and he becomes psycho-man! Driven, arrogant, cold, and asexual. He shuts down. And we break up. We have done this about six times in the past 2.5 years. Everytime he comes back--after I tell him I want him back. This time I said no, I can't be your therapist...goodbye. A dear friend of mine(male) said men need boundaries, that I have to stand my ground. But that he will come back as soon as he sees I am not running after him. Well, maybe and maybe not. I think we could have a wonderful life together, but he has to make not only a committment to me, but to getting himself healthy. I will not accept less. For all the horror I have had in my life, I will not create any more. Enough is enough. When he comes back it will be on his own...or I don't want him! After all I need a man with bigger balls than mine!!! And mine are brass. Only kidding...I'd rather have my womb.
I will, however, appreciate your help...this is hard. I feel as if I'm walking on hot coals. But...I want to do it. Or, it's like going into detox(I've never been there)...I want it, but I have to keep away from it!

October 28, 1999
6:14 pm
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Yes Kitten, you are talking and acting like a drug addict in withdrawal.
I too was addicted to men at the expense of my own happiness, health and wellbeing.
It was a big, hard drug alright..ewww excuse the pun...that wasnt intentional, lol, where was i?
Oh yea, I am just finally becoming man/junk free.
You know, there is NOTHING more important in this entire life than finding freedom and love within yourself. All the b.s., all the blaming, controlling, begging, shaming, martyrdom and head games are embarassing in retrospect when you are FREE of men.
I am not a man hater at all! I LOVE men, but the ones I have chosen have been, well, life teachers disguised as losers.
I am an intelligent, good looking woman, ultra responsible, affectionate etc but I would hook up with these cold, abusive, non intimate, blaming, controlling men..everyone who knew me would say "what are you doing with him???"
Well there is that shadow part of us that needs healing and dealing with and addictions to these types of men is where we learn THAT WE ARE SO EMPTY WITHIN OURSELVES THAT WE SETTLE FOR BOTTOM FEEDERS...and we really arent as together as we think, in fact we are FAR from together, we are falling apart and we choose these guys to focus on , thinking if we change them (huge impossible project) then we will be happy, but the horrible truth is, we are not happy at all nor will we ever be untill we face all the pain, tapes, loss and trauma that caused us to hook up with these bottom feeder guys in the first place. This is a long discovery, take it from me, as long as you focus on him, you are cheating YOURSELF out of a life

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