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Kthomas, lost soul(hope), cici, tears, askme & others
October 21, 1999
12:15 pm
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Anonymous
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Hi guys
Where have you all gone?
Lets get together again ok
Blessings

October 21, 1999
1:06 pm
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lost soul
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hi friends i am here!

October 21, 1999
1:06 pm
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lost soul
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hi friends i am here!

October 21, 1999
1:08 pm
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lost soul
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hi kyomes,cici,tears askme I am here!

October 21, 1999
9:33 pm
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I am not here. Please leave a message after the beep. HAHA ...

October 21, 1999
10:27 pm
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kitten
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I need you guys now. The pain is so great that for once in my life I am without words.

October 22, 1999
12:10 am
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Just HANG in there, kitten. It will get better ... hey did you read the 'haha' post? It gives a guideline for a cat's life and you definitely wanna start early, dont you? :)).. cheers ..

October 22, 1999
8:37 am
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Cici
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I'm here Tears. I'm so worried. But my brother-in-law is moving out to his new house sometime in November. I talked to my Dad and I think he really wants me to stay because he's so ill, and I'm the only one who really talks to him about anything other than his illness.

I'll stay with friends for the time being...everyone in the house quit drugs until the semester is over, so I won't be tempted there. It is mid-term week (ack!).

How are YOU doing?

October 22, 1999
9:28 am
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kitten
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But I don't think it will get better. This has only put me back into that silent vacuum. Dealing with the loss of my lover has also brought back the pain of my husbands death. Even my therapist seems to be avoiding me...not returning my calls. And I have so much school work to do, but can't keep my mind in my books. I'm a fighter--now I only want to give up...

October 22, 1999
11:09 am
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Dear Kitten:
Please deal with what are major abadonment issues coming up for you.Talk to us about all your feelings, as much as you can. We will listen and help you.
Hope (lost soul) are you still meeting with your friend? Is your boyfriend still acting like a baby?
Continue to talk about your feelings also HOpe, get it all out those suppressed emotions are toxic.
Cici, I dont know whether going back to your friends is a good idea. YOu really need to take a more serious approach to your drug withdrawal, why not the inpatient?
I just need to hear from you, lets hear your objections and ideas on that.I hope K thomas is ok
I am doing pretty good, I did have a blow up with hubby last night regarding my thinking we needed a seperation but he said it wasn ta good idea.
Talk to you all soon, dont have much time right now
Blessings
Oh Cici the story about the Gobi desert people was fascinating.:)

October 22, 1999
5:05 pm
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my hubby said that he would just move downstairs. God, that really bothers me. If i want a seperation i cant get one?
I got pretty emotional last night, I just feel like I have no idea that he loves me. He says well i work like a dog for us doesnt that say i love you. I said thats not enough.
He says "we just dont get along"
Wow big attempt on his part,I say "Dont you ever wonder how we can make our marriage better?" He says I dont think about it much im too involved in work.
(me getting angrier)Well obviously you dont care enough, so why dont we seperate..he says "no, it would hurt too many people, we need to stay together in the same house, i'll just set my bed up downstairs" (his porno puter, stereo and fireplace are there.
I say ok, f*** off!!!!!!!
Then this morning, I thought of how much we really need to work on this marriage and why doesnt he show his love to me more. He agreed to be more affectionate if i quite caretaking/mothering him.
I thought that was a good trade so we will see.
Getting any love or affection from this guy is like trying to get blood from a stone.
He wanted to have sex last night and I rejected him saying"sex for us is so mechanical and it really doesnt do much for me, why dont you get off on your porn"
Well i know that was pretty harsh and I felt bad about it but i feel angry that our sex life is so, well contrite.
He shrugs his shoulders and then starts in with the "you're always angry stuff" and then i say, anger does not define me, I feel disempowered in this relationship therefore i get angry, its a self protection device..blah blah blah
Sometimes i want his ass out and other days i just want us to try harder. He says I have a personality disorder and then i think maybe i do and then i say he is obssessive, cold and narcisscisstic and he figures he is and on it goes. ...
sigh
I dunno, i feel so great when hes not around, but then im thinking maybe hes reflecting some true qualties in me that are not,, well healthy.
And I would never forgive myself if I was responsible for this marriage breakup.....
I just feel like going to hawaiieeeeeeeeeeeee

October 22, 1999
5:10 pm
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I have my times like this where after an argument with him i feel quite insecure. He rips me down emotionally, but perhaps i have stuff that I have not dealth with and I am taking it out on him.....its soo hard to say.
Maybe life shouldnt be so difficult.
I am finding a place of solitide and silence which this relationship doesnt seem to be a part of.
Maybe i am denying stuff...agghh who knows.
I am so tired of it all.
I really do not want to go through another divorce, he does say he loves me every day, although the actions arent always there.
I guess thats just who he i s, I guess hes not like me.
Maybe i am trying to control everyone to be like me..cookie cutter molds of me...maybe i dont have enough love for myself and I am seeing that loss in him but it really is in me...ok im dizzy now...im outta here

October 22, 1999
8:49 pm
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oh I was a bit down, I KNOW i dont have a personality disorder thats just verbal abuse on HIS part. Gees when am i gonna not let his stuff get to me, I thought i was stronger.....guess i have a ways to go.

October 22, 1999
10:20 pm
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kitten
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tears,
Even tho' I'm on the ledge of this highrise called life
I have to step back for a minute to talk to you. I'll jump in a moment. We've all been talking about what we haven't gotten from our parents as children. Not enough love,affection, etc. We regret growing up without security and direction. However, our parents did give us one very large gift. How we view our mates.
And how we interact with them. If mom was cold and distant, well, that's what we expect. Abusive...bring it on. Dad, charming alcoholic who spent the grocery money at the bar--yes, more please! That is normal to us, whether or not we can intellectualize it as being wrong. Our brains know the difference between right and wrong, but our hearts are comfortable with chaos.
Patterns have a tendency to repeat. And patterns can follow through many generations. Step back and look at why things escalate. If he is cool does that bring up the feeling of abandonment? If he looks at porn does that mean you're not good enough? It brings up my question that no one wanted to answer. How can a man love a woman like another woman can. We as sisters are loving and supportive of one another. We hear the hidden messages and come to each other's aid. We stroke with words and tidbits of love. We do that because we have learned to do that. We make up for all the lack we have incurred in our lives. Women love other women(and again, I am not saying in the lesbian sense)in the way they wish to be loved. To give is to receive. And somewhere along the line we expect men to be like women. Traditionally, men had their needs met, by family, society, work, and women. They don't have to share with other men or women. What they do is validation. I'm not saying your husband's behavior is right...no, it is painful. I am saying it is different. Go into counseling with him and try to find ways of adapting to those differences--stop trying to change the other. He is a man. And you, my darling are a beautiful woman who needs to be loved. But, ah, it is right there. Waiting. I'm off to my ledge.
ps. if none of that works I'll loan you my cattle prod.

October 23, 1999
1:06 am
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Kitten and tears,
you both have a way with words that brings me into deeper thinking and when you write these words and I read them, they just seem to flow so smoothly.
Kitten, you've hit the nail on the head. Men are men and women are women - no if's, and's or but's about it. I hope that someday that men will be able to show a softer side without fearing they are sinking to a lower level. I mean that in no disrespect, but in the days of past, how many fathers told their son's to cry...let it all out. More than likely you would here, tough up, men/boys don't cry. Or, somewhere men seem to think if they support thier family - thats saying I love you (classic example of my father). I've watched my father grow a bit into his softer side as time has passed and society opens their minds. Now he can hug occasionaly as before it was I bring home the paycheck (meaning I love you).
I've said before and I'll say again. My husband is very affectionette - how he came this way, I'll never know. After all, growing up with an abusive alcoholic father who never said or shown I love you and then his son is completely different. Don't get me wrong, we've had our bad times and since then moved up and onword in our marriage and now we seem to be at a level of understanding one another or at least trying to.
Back to the subject of this thread. I'm happy to come here and post with all of you. I've learned many things in the past month. It's also great to see more and more men come in and join our board - this helping us to understand them. I toast to all of you and the help and support we have given one another. You are all special people...never forget that.

October 23, 1999
6:52 am
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Hi tears,

I feel sad when i read your post on 22 Oct.I just came back from a short trip with my family.I just need to unwind.Well, i know how you feel, isn't we all feel the same "hopelessness" sometimes.Its easy to advise others with problems, but going through it is not easy.I won't know when will be my next "HIT" from him.But hopefully, each time, i will take it and "fight it" better.
Take care,and i know it will soon be over.( I mean the hurt"

October 23, 1999
9:03 am
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kitten
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All,
it's day no. 3 since the break up...I'm in a very numb stage. I dropped off some intimate poems at my lover's house the other morning(he wasn't there), telling him I no longer have need for them. Has he read them? Is he upset? Does he feel abandoned? My therapist says his letter (the breakup email) was full of low self-esteem and fear of my leaving. Because I'm growing more confident at school and more sucessful he is increasingly fearful. So, it's better that he leave instead of waiting for me to go.(this is in my lover's head) After all, his wife left him for another man. Since his letter he has not called to ask for those things of his that are at my house. Or to give me back all my possesions at his place. In both cases they are valuable and irreplacable things. I don't want to hope he will come back, but most of my male friends seem to think he will. He has every other time. yet, this is the first time I said "go,I can't be your friend, you are out of my life". I know he needs help...he knows he is unhealthy. In spite of all that, I am attached to him-beyond the lust and the infatuation. I value him as a person, someone who has an important contribution in my life. Can he come back or have my words pushed him so far away it is impossible? God, can adults have the "failure to thrive" syndrome just like babies. If I don't receive touch and love, will I shrivel up and die? I'm drowning...someone throw me a life jacket!

October 23, 1999
4:53 pm
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Cici
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Wow, Tears. I dunno. You deserve to have someone who's as giving as you are. It seems like you tolerate so much s**t from your husband...I mean, it doesn't make sense to me because you're such a beautiful, kind person...I don't see why he can't see that. Really. You deserve SO much better.

As for inpatient...I know it might be good for me, but I've spent over a month being perfectly straight. I've even gone to parties and been offered free stuff and stayed straight. I went out to a bar last night with my boyfriend...he asks me lately to regulate his drinking. I know it's not healthy for me to do this, but I tell when he needs to stop and he does. I didn't drink anything, although I had a sip of a pina colada (those taste so good).

My father is pretty ill. He turned 70 yesterday and is suffering from congestive heart failure and mouth cancer. He went to the hospital last week for seizures and my mother told me he would probably be around for maybe another year. I just don't want to go away from him right now. As it is, I can visit him every day for a few hours. Sometimes we just sit and watch TV, but I feel better if I can sit next to him. He used to be a drug therapy counselor, after he got over his alcoholism, so it really helps because I can talk to him like he's a friend. That's why I don't want to go to inpatient.

October 23, 1999
6:20 pm
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ahhh thats so sweet cici, I didint realise your dad was so ill. He can help you as you can help him.
Two broken ones making one whole, what a nice time to spend some quality time with your dad, bless you.
I never knew mY dad, he left when i was ten after beating the s*** out of my mom at least once a week for as long as I can remember. He was a very sick man.
As far as me taking my hubbys crap, well one word KIDS and things ARE getting better.
I am not quite ready to bail nor am i quite ready to remarry him which we have talked of doing.
We dont scream, shout nor is it violent at all. Our relationship HAS come a long way as we ARE both actually healing and growing.
I often feel i deserve a better man, but then i realise he is the father of my children and he is actually a kind and sensitive man who can not truly express himself to me. He admitted today that he needs to tell him and show me how much I mean to him and that he is going to do that along with showing more affection, I have cut back on the caretaking and he isnt moving downstairs and he hardly ever goes on the puter to view porn any more. Its not like hes an addict but it does make me feel like im not beautifu l enough for him, but i guess every guy with testes views porn...
We spent the day together today, he is currently making me some six foot canvases for a showing and we had breakfast together and took the kids to an animal farm for the day. We have our sad times but they are so much less sad, believe me when i tell you this...improved a great deal. I am quite emotional because it is a full moon and i am pmsing...and he doesnt talk or express his love for me as much as I would like but things are getting better. We are being counselled.
Blessings guys
Kitten, you are an angel. It is best that you cut your lover loose friend, free yourself

October 23, 1999
6:21 pm
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oh and guys, im not a hypocrite, i give advice from wisdom and experience, my previous life and relationships would make a great halloween movie...believe me, ive come a long way..babies..:)

October 23, 1999
6:49 pm
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Tears,
I hate to pest you so much, but it seems (at least to me) that we share some memories(past life?). You see a change in your husband, what if a year ago someone told you to set him free? Would you have listened? What would have happened to all that progress you've made? See, I believe Americans have a disposable mentality. If it's broken throw it out and get a new one. I, on the other hand, rather invest in something of quality and fix it if broken. Does that make sense. If I have lessons to learn, isn't it better to stay put and learn them now? My lover has lessons to learn too. If he walks away, he will never get it, nor will I. When I listen to my gut, my unconscious, God, Spirit, whatever you want to call it...it tells me wait. Have you ever stood on railroad tracks and felt something? Not real movement, but something. You'd look all around, not see anything, but yet you sensed it? The hairs on you neck stood up and you felt electified? Within five minutes the six oclock to Chicago came rolling through. Now, if you hadn't listened to yourself, you would have missed the train!
I'm not saying to stay in a abusive, violent situation, but sometimes it's worth it to stop and finally face what you've been avoiding. See, I hate to admit this, but I thrive on excitement. One of the things the Reiki master told me was about my need to learn to receive. For some reason I love to suffer--it's safe, what I know. M.L.(my lover) has the same lesson to learn. When things were going REAL well this summer and it seemed like he was going to ask me to marry him, I backed away and questioned our relationship. When he turned away from me out of fear then, I ran right back into my old pattern. So, you see, we have to adjust our own junk before we throw out anyone else's. Whew...sorry for the long tirade. I appreciate any imput from you. These are difficult lessons to learn, but with all of you I know I can. The little engine that could!!! Big hugs to you tears. And to everyone else--you guys restore my faith in love.

October 24, 1999
11:00 am
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Hello...I am back. Sorry about the absence...I have been learning some very rough things about myself in counseling and it really got overwhelming there for a while...but I think I can accept it now. You see that angry person inside of me...well turns out that when I was a small child I created her to carry my pain...she is an alter of some sort...pretty heavy huh. At first I felt unstable about it...was in denial...and didn't want to lable myself Sybil if you know what I mean. But now I have come to terms with her (she has no name...only "monster") and realize I must acknowelge her and accept part of her in order to say good by to her. I told you this was heavy stuff. 🙂 so anyway...I look forward to the screaming within (she only screams...she is so full of rage) to stop and to finally be free of the anger she keeps reminding me of. Of course I have no clue as to how this is going to take place...but admitting that she is there and telling you guys...that is a step..right? See...I am worried about what others might think of me if they knew about this part of me...As I have grown older it felt as it was getting harder and harder to control her and keep her hidden...but now that I have accepted the fact that she exists...she's lost some of her steam. And I do believe that someday I will go on without her. As my counselor said..."I don't need her to protect me anymore". Cool huh.

October 24, 1999
12:42 pm
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Kitten you described it exactly.....what an angel.:)I feel the same way, if i threw out him with his baggage, untill i fixed my own i would come across the same baggage with a different face.
It is sooo true. He and I have both come a long way, I like to think myself more than him, but is there really any measure on healing?
No, he no longer gets violent, breaks or hits me ( I only took some hitting from him in the earlier parts of the relationship, and he never drew blood )so I would say that is very major for him. He said he did it out of his love for me and himself.
Our relationships are our greatest teachers, if i were to alienate myself out of fear, I would not learn what i need to learn to get where i need to be to be what i was to begin with.......lol
Blessings

October 24, 1999
12:54 pm
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ahhhh Karin, i got teary on your post girl. Dont feel like Sybil, our minds and souls are beautiful things and they do what they have to to protect us and keep us alive girl, dont feel wierd because you are NOT. You are beautiful and brave and intelligent.
You need to keep in mind that we dont judge you here, we know you and can identify with your feelings and life.
It is important, to remember, when things are really tough for you in your life and HEALING that you NEED to come here and talk. This is when you MOST need to come here and talk with us.
I was a little worried about you so I am glad you came back and posted and spoke openly about what is going on with you.
Yes when you acknowledge that dark part of you (all of which we have)and that disempowers it.
IT reminds me of a childrens book, the boy found a monster in his bedroom closet and the parents denied it and so it grew bigger adn bigger and was sitting on the breakfast table eating all the pancakes etc..and parents still denied it and it didnt shrink and become friendly untill every one accepted that it existed..
lol love ya Karin

October 24, 1999
12:55 pm
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Hi Tears...yes I too feel the same way. My husband has a lot of growing and healing of his own to do. But there is a lot of good things there too. Although he is still in jail...he is reaching and searching in his own way. So I will be supportive without compromising myself...and I will continue to heal and grow...but I don't want to just write him off...yes our husbands need help...yes they need work...yet so do we. We may find when we are stronger more sure within ourselves that we don't want these men in our lives...or we may be able to handle things differently, ie. not defensive, and therefore the outcome becomes different. We are a society that tosses commintment out the window so fast...why can't both spouses learn and heal and become one...just because one is growing and healing at a faster rate then the other, doesn't mean one is better then the other. Does this make sense? I love my husband and I want our marriage to work.

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