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Kathyg - some feedback from Gingerleigh
February 6, 2006
11:26 am
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Matteo
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Kathygy,

I will be as honest as possible here and I will try to illustrate my feelings and my opinions. I apologize if that will be harsh, this is not my intention, and I would like to assure you that it is not to judge, attack or condemn you. I am sorry if it will cause you any pain; again, this is not my intention.

I took time to look for a few examples, but all I want to do is just that: to illustrate to you what am I talking about, how and why I feel about some of your responses. By no means am I willing to discuss those issues we were talking about in certain threads any further; that is past.

You’ve said: “Are you saying this is not true about you that you have no personal issues to deal with in your reaction to me? “ I thought about why some of your posts bring certain reactions in myself, and the only answer I came up to is that I perceive you as someone who talks from the position of superiority and that everyone speaking in that manner would bring the same reaction in me, because I despise anybody usurping an authority (even those in power are there because of the rest of us) and anybody who talks as having the corner on truth would; and that in turn probably comes with resentment towards my mother. She often had wonderful and sobering advice but saw the world in black and white, she wasn’t able to understand neither the subtlety of people’s feelings, nor the complexity of people as persons; it was either one way or the other, cut and dry; and she was talking to me from the position of authority and superiority. Again, this is my perception; it quite possibly might be not a true on your part. In general it is about the tone, not only about the content. I cannot be any more specific here.

At the same time I was thinking about your reaction to any criticism, which in my opinion, often was voiced by many in very carefully and in non-judgmental way. I can speak only for myself, but for me, for the longest time it was extremely difficult to differentiate between criticism of my actions and criticism of myself as a person, my very being. It worked both ways: when somebody did something wrong, I thought about him/her as a bad person. I noticed when I said to G. that he did something weird, he took it as I said that he is weird – while he is probably the last person I would think about that way! Well, finally I learnt that I can see a person as fully dimensional being, with all his/her virtues and vices, criticize or condemn their actions and still appreciate and love them at the same time. I think my confusion was coming probably from the treatment I’ve got as a child: I felt loved when I was praised; I felt unloved/rejected when I did something what was perceived as wrong. This is how my N. mother operated: I was loved when I was useful for her NS, (e.g. when she was praising me in front of others, as her child), I was rejected when I didn’t provide it.

I said: "I feel talked down to when you are saying that I have a limited understanding" and “I feel like you are very sensitive to any mistreatment from others towards you, while you seem to feel entitled to do exactly the same towards them without acknowledging it". In my first post “This is a long story”, are examples of what I am talking here about. In my response to your posts there I said: “You seem to have limited understanding of that and as well of what we are discussing here. “ Honestly, usually I don’t talk like this, but I said that because I wanted to give you a taste of your own medicine, which you picked up instantly, and you said: “You are doing to me what you claim I was doing to you.” But you still didn’t acknowledge that you did the same, you just ignored it.

Let me talk here about our conversation in this thread where we are right now. I said: “"I think it is a defense in form of denial on your side to refuse to engage in conversation with someone who cares to communicate with you". You’ve said: “This is incorrect about me. This has not been my reason for refusing to communicate when I do refuse. You are doing to me EXACTLY what you say I have done to you, assuming what I feel rather than asking what I feel.” You see, kathygy, I don’t agree with your statement. It would be truth, if I would say it: “It is a defense in form of denial on your side to refuse to engage in conversation with someone who cares to communicate with you”. I didn’t say that, I said “I think it is a defense in form of denial on your side to refuse to engage in conversation with someone who cares to communicate with you". I don’t assume, I don’t know what it is, I just think what it might be.

I said: "I feel like you are assuming to know what others know, how they feel, or what they think" (or what they need). Especially your second post in thread “This is a long story” illustrates all incorrect assumptions you’ve made about me and my situation. To anyone who is going to read it: the message wasn’t right in the rough form; the assumptions were just plain wrong.

Similarly, you’ve made a bunch of assumptions, or maybe rather projections in regards with my feelings and intentions in the “death penalty’ post.

In regards with the projection and you reading selectively other people’s posts, I noticed that Angel4U in the post “(kathygy/all) Topic: Making assumptions about others' behavior” in the most tactful and delicate way pointed out to you what you could learn in regards with avoiding making assumptions about others - and you just ignored, or didn’t understand, or missed the point of this thread. When I read this thread, I was amazed how Angel4U nailed the issue in regards with your responses and I expected from you much more than laconic sentence of agreement with her.

I said: "I feel patronized when you say that I (or others) have a right to my opinion, that this is only my opinion, or that my opinion is not a fact". I often say to you “this is my opinion” and I noticed that other posters in disagreement with you do the same to absolutely ensure you that this is my (their) opinion, not a judgment or attack. However, for me when you say: This is your opinion” or “it is your opinion, not a fact” or “you have a right to your opinion” is a passive-aggressive response insulting my intelligence. I know this is my opinion, I know that my opinion is not a fact, and I know I have a right to voice it without anyone telling me so or giving me a permission to do it. That’s why I am giving my opinion in the first place: because I have a right to it. I feel this is patronizing, because the great majority of posters here, (and I am including myself) no matter how much or how little of formal education they have, are truly brilliant adults and are fully aware of their rights to voice their opinions, and often their opinions and advices, although not necessarily with an agreement with yours, are as useful as yours.

About the years of therapy – well maybe I am overreacting here, but I perceive it as another justification on your part for the tone of your posts: “I am longer in therapy than you, therefore I know better than you do” kind of thing; but as I said, maybe I am oversensitive at that point, maybe here I am really assuming, and I apologize if I do.

When I said “I managed to distance myself from this site and all those issues to the point that they are not upsetting me anymore. I preferred that instead of approaching you and others who were upsetting me, after my pain was gone” - I didn’t mean that you’ve caused me such pain; I was at times angry or upset, but not in pain because of you. What I meant was that I came to this site looking for answers in regards to my attachment to G., and at that time I was in pain. When I found my answers, and digested them, my pain diminished and I able to pay much more attention to what is going on this site and certain issues became more upsetting to me after my pain over G. was gone (or most of that pain, anyway). I decided to leave the whole issue alone because I value many of your opinions, and knowing a little about your background, I think that at least to some degree I understand why you are responding the way you are, and I trust that your intentions are good. Because I found on this site what I was looking for, I didn’t want to create a conflict knowing that I am not going to post here; yes I found some issues upsetting here but the main reason why I decided not to communicate was that I found the answers to my questions and decided to move on, not because I was so upset with you or anyone else.

However, I came back to read some people’s posts and I saw a feedback to you. I couldn’t keep quiet when you’ve said that gingerleigh is the only one who feels that way. As you can see I am not applying the “no contact” rule :).

I hope that my explanation clarifies a lot here. I gave you just a few examples, but within just a few months of posting here, I noticed that the strikingly similar tone of your responses create a pattern. I think that it was useful talking about it for everyone involved. I would hate to think that someone didn’t take your advice just because of the tone in which your message was carried. All the best to you.

Matteo

February 6, 2006
12:38 pm
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kathygy
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I am feeling very attacked here and very misunderstood. Maybe there are times when I may sound like I am talking in a superior tone. I will take that into consideration. I agree about the use of 'shoulds' and will watch that. Maybe I do make too many assumptions about people and their situations rather than asking questions.

I keep hearing about what people don't like about some of my posts yet is there anything you say that may contribute to the conflict?

Also, when I feel judged I need to say that. But I don't get a response about what I'm feeling. Its hard for me to respond to feedback when I feel judged. Yet, I don't hear anyone addressing that issue. It is not about me using that to avoid the issue. That is an assumption. It would be better to ask me why I didn't respond.

People talk about their feelings about what I say or how I express myself at times. But I have feelings too about how others talk to me.

The conflict here is not all about me. I will take a look at my wording but I ask you to do the same when addressing me.

matteo,

what is your intention in communicating with me?

What is your goal, what do you hope to achieve?

"I apologize if that will be harsh, this is not my intention, and I would like to assure you that it is not to judge, attack or condemn you. I am sorry if it will cause you any pain; again, this is not my intention. "

You say it is not your intention that why do you proceed to express yourself in these exact ways?

I addressed most of your comments earlier yet you are re-stating them.

Also, you talk about me making assumptions. Yet, I feel that your post to me is FULL of assumptions about me.

"I think it is a defense in form of denial on your side to refuse to engage in conversation with someone who cares to communicate with you"

When I said this is incorrect about me you objected because you used the words 'I think'. Well, then I'll re-state my position. What you think about me is incorrect.

I already addressed the issue about discussing my background. I told you many, many people ask me about it.

"I feel talked down to when you are saying that I have a limited understanding" I'm yet to know what this was about. I think something is missing here because I don't think I would say this.

"I feel like you are very sensitive to any mistreatment from others towards you, while you seem to feel entitled to do exactly the same towards them without acknowledging it".

I have no intentions of mistreating anyone. How can I acknowedge something if it doesn't sound true. If someone feels mistreated they can tell me in the moment and I will respond to that. What is your definition of 'mistreatment'?

lolli,

"you harp on that ONE WORD that you can use to avoid the issue....such as when I say things like.....when people disagree with you, you get very defensive.......you automatically jump on the fact that I used the word "people" instead of me. Then instead of addressing the issue at hand, you avoid it by coming back with.....you need to speak for yourself instead of saying "people". You know very well what I am saying but you use the words I use to avoid the issue. "

My intention is NOT about avoiding the issue at hand. This is an assumption about me which is not true. It is hard for me to communicate with you when you talk about other people. When you address me it is much more helpful and informative when you say "I" instead of "others'. If you have an issue with me than I need to know what YOU personally feel. It is much more direct. Then I can respond to what YOU are feeling.

Also, when I feel judged I need to say that. But I don't get a response about what I'm feeling. Its hard for me to respond to feedback when I feel judged or attacked. Yet, I don't hear anyone addressing that issue.

to be completely honest I feel very, very upset by the way you talk to me to the point that I loose my appetite. this makes me want to stay a way from you rather than get upset again. You are pushing my buttons about being criticized and misunderstood. When I feel misunderstood and judged I feel very frustrated and angry and prehaps hurt.

I really wanted to avoid reading your post because I knew it would upset me and it did. I am perfectly willing to take personal responsibility but it does make a huge difference in how it is said. Just as others have said it makes a difference in how I express myself.

you even said yourself " the more I feel like NOW I am attacking you."

That's generally how I have felt about the way you address me.

February 6, 2006
12:56 pm
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lollipop3
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Yes, Kathy....when I wrote that post to you....I was very angry. I am very frustrated with my REPEATED attempt to engage you in a rational conversation, which seems almost impossible.

After I wrote that, I went to bed and while I laid in bed I thought about what I wrote and realized that YES, I had written it in anger and that made me feel badly, so I got up out of bed, came back to my computer and apologized to you. As I said, a hundred times it seems at this point....up UNTIL that particular thread....at no point was I angry, judging, or attacking you.

I have to be honest Kathy, you mentioned a couple of times that no one addresses the fact that you feel judged...again that statement is NOT TRUE. *I* addressed that fact SEVERAL times in your "kathy's breakup" thread. I said REPEATEDLY that I never intended to judge you and that I was sorry that you felt that way. Perhaps the reason *I* don't address it everytime time is because it's beginning to sound a bit like "the boy who cried wolf".

You said, "to be completely honest I feel very, very upset by the way you talk to me to the point that I loose my appetite. this makes me want to stay a way from you rather than get upset again"

What about what my post makes you so upset that you loose your appetite? Because I asked you to look at your posting style? Or because my posts are not allowing you to avoid the issue at hand?

Kathy, I have tried. Just as my posts are making you upset to the point of losing your appetite, so too are your posts effecting me too negatively at this point for me to continue.

Good luck to you

Lolli

February 6, 2006
12:56 pm
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Dearest SC,

I'm sorry. I tried and I give up.

Love,
Lolli

February 6, 2006
1:36 pm
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kathygy
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lolli,

"I am very frustrated with my REPEATED attempt to engage you in a rational conversation, which seems almost impossible. "

that's exactly the way I feel about trying to communuicate with you.

It seems to me that we are coming at this from different angles.

When I said no one is addressing my feelings about feeling judged I only meant that when I say I feel judged in the way feedback if given to me.

"What about what my post makes you so upset that you loose your appetite? Because I asked you to look at your posting style? Or because my posts are not allowing you to avoid the issue at hand? "

the first sentence felt like genuine communication but then you go on to make assumptions about me that are completely not the case. These last two assumptions sound like judgements to me that you seem to want repeatedly to believe. Yet, when I try to explain that it is not the reason you don't seem to want to believe me.

Your posts upset me because I feel a lot of anger from you, I feel attacked by you, I feel judged by you, I feel that you are not really interested in how I really feel but would rather make judgemental assumptions that are at times very degrading. I feel a lot of harshness from you.

Just saying 'I don't mean to attack you or judge you' means nothing when you then go ahead and proceed to do just that.

February 6, 2006
1:49 pm
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kathygy
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lolli,

you also seemed to ignore what I did say in response to your feedback.

"Maybe there are times when I may sound like I am talking in a superior tone. I will take that into consideration. I agree about the use of 'shoulds' and will watch that. Maybe I do make too many assumptions about people and their situations rather than asking questions. "

I have asked you many questions which you simply do not answer. Why not?

February 6, 2006
1:53 pm
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gingerleigh
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Kathy, I often feel ignored by you. There have been instances on the threads where you have either just not responded to my queries to you or you've brushed me off with what felt to me a superior-sounding comment.

I realize that I missed responding to the one post you addressed to me after agreeing to try to work through this:

"I apoligize for refusing to communicate with you."

Thank you for the apology.

"I would like to understand why you feel: "KathyG's way, or the highway, and if you don't take KathyG's way, then you're stupid and deserve all the pain you're going through."

as this is not my intentions at all, far from it."

Again, thank you for the clarification. This is the tone that I was hearing, and I'm glad to know that this isn't your intent.

"also, you are the only one who has voiced this feeling to me about my posts."

This may or may not be true. It doesn't matter in the context of this discussion between you and me. What matters is that I am voicing this feeling. It's my feeling, and I wanted to discuss it directly with you. Just because I might be the only one feeling this way doesn't mean that I feel it any less. Please don't use the opinions of others to invalidate my feelings. I'd much rather talk to you directly.

"Is this pushing a button for you?"

Yes, it is definitely pushing a button for me. There are some things I'm feeling in your posts that really bother me. I hate to be talked down to, especially when I feel like the person talking down to me cannot sympathize with what I'm going through. (It's like getting diet advice from someone who has never been fat.) The other thing that really pushes my buttons is being ignored or brushed aside.

I have a good understanding of what past experiences have wounded me in these areas. So, yes, your words land on me differently than they will on others. But just because I'm sensitive to being ignored or talked down to doesn't mean that it *isn't* happening.

I'd also like to understand what was hurtful or harsh about my original post. Even the SC commented that it was overly harsh, and I'm not seeing it, which to me says that I need some help in communication style too. Could you please point out how I could have worded this paragraph better to be less hurtful, but still express what I needed to say?

"Now for the feedback part... when I read your posts, I often feel talked down to and preached at. I feel like I'm being told "KathyG's way, or the highway, and if you don't take KathyG's way, then you're stupid and deserve all the pain you're going through." This is how I feel when I read your posts. My feedback to you is to please read your own responses before hitting the Post button and to consider how your words and tone might land on you if you were to receive that same feedback from someone else."

Thanks!

February 6, 2006
2:11 pm
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Matteo
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Kathygy,

I gave you the most honest answers, full of detailed examples, just like you’ve asked me to, and now you are asking me what is my goal, and what I want to achieve?

I was quoting myself and you to give you my answer to each point.
If you don’t understand, read it again, and again, read the threads I quoted, and maybe then you will be able to understand. But then, maybe not.

Sorry but at this point I cannot do anything else. I am not going to repeat the same over and over again.
I did what you’ve asked me to, to the best of my knowledge and ability. Now it is up to you.

Good luck with your therapy.

February 6, 2006
2:35 pm
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kathygy
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ginger,

first of all I am sorry you feel ignored by me. I didn't get around to responding to your post because I was so busy trying to communicate with matteo and lloli. I felt that they were coming on very strong and I wanted to address that first.

you want to know what sounded harsh:

"I feel like I'm being told "KathyG's way, or the highway, and if you don't take KathyG's way, then you're stupid and deserve all the pain you're going through.

To anyone else who is reading, I ask that guidelines be followed here, and allow me the chance to converse with Kathy without anyone else jumping in to "defend" or "attack" either of us."

I never in a million years would want someone to feel that way (stupid and deserve all the pain you're going through). I'm not that kind of person. In fact, there are many posts where I have been very loving and nurturing.

I never implied, 'my way or the highway'. I don't know where this is coming from.

"I hate to be talked down to, especially when I feel like the person talking down to me cannot sympathize with what I'm going through. (It's like getting diet advice from someone who has never been fat.) "

I am sorry if you feel talked down to by me. I will keep that in mind.

As far as, not being able to sympathize with what you're going through is totally not the case.

This is an assumption. I don't know where it comes from but I certainly have been through the ringer in my life with all kinds of dysfunction in my life except that I have never been physically abused. It's just that I have worked so long and hard on myself that I am a completely different person now. But I most definately have been there!

So often I see woman who are suffering in situations that I have been in long ago and I fully understand that it doesn't have to be that way.

I so want to help them better their lives that I may be very strong in my comments.

I know exactly how it feels to be in-love with an unavailable man and build a fantasy world around him and put him on a pedestal.

The come here go away type of man used to really hook me in. But today I know that all of this comes from my relationship with my father.

I have learned to love myself and stay away from these kinds of men because they cause me tons of pain. My priority now is protecting my inner child from that kind of pain and man. And I know when I was involved with this type of man I was abandoning myself (my inner child).

For me that is the worst kind of pain and I just won't do it any more.

Please let me know if any of this sounded like I was talking down to you.

love,
kathy

February 6, 2006
2:41 pm
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kathygy
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matteo,

that is not what I am talking about when I ask you what is your goal, what is your intention in communicating with me?

What I would like to know is things like
do you want to make peace with me? do you want to feel heard by me?
do you want to be right?
do you want to express your anger at me?
do you want me to change?
do you want to heal the conflict between you and I?

or whatever it is?

I'm trying to understand your deep down motives, what is driving you to say all of these things to me?

February 6, 2006
2:58 pm
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This was great! Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me. And no, none of that felt like talking down to me. I really like the way you gave me some background about your own experiences, and it totally makes you sound more "real" to me. Advice taken in that context is so much easier to hear and process, plus it gives hope to me to think "hey, this person has been where I am and came out of it, that means that I can too!" Totally a positive experience.

February 6, 2006
3:04 pm
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nmatteo and lolli,

I think what may be happening here is that we both want to communicate on different levels. For me its more important to communicate on a deeper level, to talk about what's going on below the surface. Rather than talk about the surface issues.

It is my experience that by talking on a deeper level the surface issues take care of themselves. I have found that talking on a deeper level puts us on the same team whereas sticking to the surface issues has polarized us.

please let me know if I sound superior here and if so how I could express myself not to sound that way. I really don't know how else to express myself about this.

February 6, 2006
3:07 pm
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ginger,

I am so happy to get your post. I'm real glad to hear what you said. I am happy we have worked through this.

February 6, 2006
3:10 pm
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Ah, and my last original paragraph, where I asked no one else to jump in... the reason that I put that out there was because I didn't want this to become a "fight" thread, where people take sides or gang up. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a lot of fighting and ganging up on this thread, and I didn't want that. What I was after was a talk between Ginger and Kathy. I didn't want anyone to blast me for how I felt (which happened) or blast Kathy for how she felt (which also happened). That was why I asked for the conversation to remain between the two of us, not to limit who can or can't participate.

I hope that makes sense.

February 6, 2006
3:41 pm
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ginger,

yes, it does make sense and you are right what you wanted to avoid did indeed happen.

Another thing I want to say about myself is that I grew up feeling that my feelings were a burden unless I was being cute and sweet.

Therefore, I still have a tendency to act like everything is fine with me. I don't have any needs. I often find that I supress my feelings.

Like when I was in therapy a week ago I was talking about my mother's death and what her life was like when I was born. I had a ton of saddness come up. I had no idea I had that much saddness in me and I had supressed down.

So here I am walking around with all of this supressed saddness and probably other feelings. I've already done a tom of crying and grieving over my painful childhood over the years but there's still more work to be done.

February 6, 2006
4:21 pm
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lollipop3
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Kathy,

I did not want to get into this any further with you, which is why I suggested we just let this go and try to communicate better in the future. You wanted to get to a "deeper" level and wanted to know how your posts made me feel. So I told you. Your posting style makes me feel angry.

Apparently that was not the answer you were looking for. I'm sorry for that.

Having said that, I really do need to let this go now and move on.

I wish you the best.

Lolli

February 6, 2006
4:31 pm
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kathygy
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but why does it make you angry? what is the button being pushed?

I know you don't want to communicate about this any further but I just need to say that just saying it makes you feel angry tells me nothing. I already know that.

February 6, 2006
4:49 pm
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lollipop3
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KATHY.....OMG!!!!

I am not trying to be difficult here, really I'm not. I truly and honestly do not know how to communicate what I am trying to say so that you can understand.

I mean, really, if you still do not, will not, can not, get what I am trying to say....I am just at a loss.

I told you that I didn't care for you writing style and that I found you to be very judgemental.

You asked for examples, I gave them to you.

You asked me to explain how that made me feel, so I told you how it make me feel. It makes me feel angry because, although you do give good advice, I find your posting style to be cold, emotionless and judgemental.

Kathy, what do you want from me at this point?

The only thing that I ask and that I have ever asked is that you PLEASE take into consideration how your posting style may come across to others. That's it!

I just don't even know what else to say.

Lolli

February 6, 2006
4:52 pm
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lollipop3
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Kathy, I will add one more thing.

What button that pushes in me, is not the issue as far as I'm concerned. My buttons or why thinking that you are judgemental makes me angry is neither here nor there. The fact is, it does, and you can either choose to take that into consideration or not.

February 7, 2006
11:56 am
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kathygy
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I just don't see how this situation can be healed without you taking some responsibility for your part. I have told you how your feedback style effects me. You did not respond to that at all. I did take responsibility for some things and you did not acknowledge that. What buttions are being pushed in you is a big part of communication. I feel that you don't really want to communicate or heal this conflict rather you only want to blast me and then get out of here without any change on your part and how you give feedback.

February 7, 2006
12:30 pm
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lollipop3
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Kathy,

In my post to you on Feb.5, regarding what part I feel I have played in this I wrote:

"You want to know what I think my part in this is.....

My part is that I shouldn't let your behavior affect me. I shouldn't allow myself to get angry and frustrated by the behavior of a stranger. And I shouldn't feel the need to "defend" others. That is something I will continue to work on."

Regarding "what buttons were pushed in me"....on Feb.5, I wrote:

"I wanted to talk to you about this two weeks ago, but if you remember correctly...you couldn't be bothered. I apologize for the sarcasm, but just like a lot of other people in my life....nobody seems to want to talk about anything in a mature, healthy fashion until *I* have had enough and lost my patience. Now all of sudden you want to talk about it. You wanted to know "what buttons you behavior has pushed in me"....well, now you know."

As far as my feedback goes, I have gone over what I have written to you in this thread as well as in others and I do not feel that I spoke to in a judgemental way or that I was attacking you (up until the last few, which I have already admitted to and apologized for). Quite the opposite in fact. I think I went above and beyond the call of duty to try to discuss my perceptions with you WITHOUT coming off as attacking. At this point, I just honestly do not know how to talk to you without you jumping on every word I say and telling me you don't understand what I am saying.

And yes, I will say again....NOW I am angry. I have lost my patience and no longer feel the need to pussy foot around trying to get my point across. I'm sorry. What else do you want me to say?

You said: " I feel that you don't really want to communicate or heal this conflict rather you only want to blast me and then get out of here without any change on your part and how you give feedback."

What is it that YOU think I should change? And what about my feedback should I change? How long should I be expected to say the same thing over and over in every way that I know how BEFORE I am allowed to loose my patience and say that I have had enough?

Honestly Kathy, I really feel that I have tried with you and I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

Perhaps we can come back to this another time. I have enough of my own issues at this moment, that I don't feel the need to continue on this merry-go-round. It is not helping me AT ALL as far as my anger and frustration are concerned. It is only making it worse. This is exactly how I feel trying to communicate with my abusive boyfriend and I just need it to stop.

February 7, 2006
12:57 pm
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kathygy
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lolli,

you say you don't want to talk about this any more yet you keep posting things that I feel a need to respond to because I continue to feel misunderstood by you.

Regarding "what buttons were pushed in me"....on Feb.5, I wrote:

"I wanted to talk to you about this two weeks ago, but if you remember correctly...you couldn't be bothered

[that is a judgement or an assumption on your part. That's not way I didn't respond. You could have just asked me why I didn't respond what you say about me is is not true aT ALL..]

I apologize for the sarcasm, but just like a lot of other people in my life....nobody seems to want to talk about anything in a mature, healthy fashion until *I* have had enough and lost my patience.

[this is NOT why I want to talk about this now. Again another assumption on your part. You could have just asked me why now? The reason is that the site coordinator made some comments in this thread about refusing to communicate is wrong]

You wanted to know "what buttons you behavior has pushed in me"....well, now you know."

""My part is that I shouldn't let your behavior affect me. I shouldn't allow myself to get angry and frustrated by the behavior of a stranger. And I shouldn't feel the need to "defend" others."

These are not buttons. You are telling me about feelings. When I talk about a button I am refering to a childhood wound that is being triggered.

"I really feel that I have tried with you and I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. "

That is exactly how I feel with you.

You ask me what would like you to change. I would like you to change the way you give me feedback. Even though you don't see it. I feel the way you talk to me is degrading. I would like you to stop making assumptions about me without asking me about the thing.

"This is exactly how I feel trying to communicate with my abusive boyfriend and I just need it to stop."

comparing this exchange with me to your abusive boyfriend is over the edge.

I want this exchange to stop too but you keedp saying things about me that are not correct and then expect me not to reply?

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