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Kathyg - some feedback from Gingerleigh
February 3, 2006
4:39 pm
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lollipop3
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Kathy,

In a final attempt to put an end to this ...I would like to comment on your post to me.

You said:

Lolli,

I don't understand you.

I feel like you have an issue with me for some time now that goes beyond this thread as I've seen it pop up in other threads

Kathy....I don't understand you. I was clearly responding to your statement to ginger when you said
"also, you are the only one who has voiced this feeling to me about my posts" I responded to this by telling you that this statement was not true.

What is not to understand. You and I had this very conversation just two weeks ago. Matteo was also part of that discussion. And that is precisly my point. You are acting like you have never heard this before! I feel that you are denying any part that you are playing in this situation. It is unfair and unhealthy.

I object to you implying that I have some issue with you that you have no knowledge of. I have addressed you directly, there should be no confusion. I also object to you suggesting that I am "projecting" my feelings on to other people. This conversation would be a lot more healthy and a lot more productive for everyone involved if you would just listen to what is being said instead of looking for that one word that will enable to you continue denying the issue at hand.

Having said all this, I hope that I have been very clear about my feelings on this issue.

Lolli

February 3, 2006
5:51 pm
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taj64
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This whole thread makes me so angry. I was really getting a lot out of this site but several people want to be arguing and in this thread is it unhealthy. I thought by checking on it that it would have settled down and mended. But no. And I also see the same three people on this thread that have corrected me on other thread that are judging now to another person I feel gets picked on. Im sorry I jumped on the thread in the first place. And I think I can say who I can converse with but next time I will keep it to myself because now I don't feel like opening up. I dont feel comfortable now. This thread is totally ridiculous, I just want everyone to be aware of it. I think I need a break from the site. Im not comfortable with it in my healing process. I am trying to recover and move forward and learn, most of all to heal and not go backwards. This is sad, sad, sad. All of you should take a hard look at how YOU respond as well. So lolli you got the last word if that is what you accomplished but this thread didn't accomplish anything but hurt feelings, at least on my part.

February 3, 2006
6:26 pm
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lollipop3
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Taj,

This has been an ongoing issue, at least for me, and one that I feel needs to be addressed.

I was not trying to get the last word and surely it will not be the last word. I was merely trying to make my feelings very clear to avoid any confusion.

I'm sorry that you feel the need to leave this site. Part of the intent of this site, as discussed by the SC, is to have open, honest and assertive communication. It is important that we all be able to share our feelings. That is healthy. I look at this site much like an extention of my own family. If I have an issue, I think it is best to get that issue into the open so that we may come to some sort of resolution or at least some understanding. Another important aspect of this site, in my opinion at least, is to help others see things that they may not see in themselves.

Telling someone how you feel and offering feedback or contructive criticism does not constitute judgement nor an attack.

We are all human here and we are all hurting and stuggling with our own issues. Sometimes people clash for whatever the reason and I believe that it is very important to address this in a healthy way.

I will only speak for myself here when I say that my only intent in this thread and in the thread two weeks ago was to perhaps have Kathy look at her own behavior, which so far, she seems unwilling to do.

Communication is healthy. Accusing people of judging and attacking, avoiding and denying the issue at hand, a total unwillingness to compromise, and shutting out differing opinions is not healthy.

Again, I'm sorry if my opinion has made you feel as though you need to leave this site, but I feel that in my own recovery, I must stand by my own beliefs.

I do hope you change your mind, but if you feel you must go, I can respect that and I wish you the best.

Take care,
Lolli

February 3, 2006
6:27 pm
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Lostrose
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Everyone has a choice to read & respond to any thread they choose. When a thread upsets me I move on to another one & I don't look back.

My point is I choose what I want to read & I take care of my needs.

February 4, 2006
11:44 am
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kathygy
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Matteo,

I realize that what I am going to say below applies to me as well for future interactions. But time and time again what you say about me is also what I feel from you.

You do not want to feel judged well neither do I. You say you have felt judged by me but when I say I feel judged you seem to apply that I am wrong to feel that way. Does this make sense to you?

I am sorry if I have offended you in any way. That was never my intention. However, I think it will help me the most if you tell me what you want from me or need from me rather than telling me what I've done wrong.

"I often feel that you are judgmental and not accepting of others’ – in the wide understanding of the word: opinions, advices, feelings, and especially feedbacks which you don’t like. "

I also need you to stick to what YOU need from me not what you think others need or feel. I think this will work much better if you can tell me specifically what I have said that made you feel judged. Its a little difficult for me to respond to a general comment after the fact not knowing what the comment was.

Rather than saying 'you are judgmental and not accepting' it would help me more if you could say what you do need such as 'I need to feel accepted by you'.

"I feel like you are unable to relate to other’s feelings and that you look down upon them, if they fell certain way"

again please stick to what YOU feel not what you think others feel. This comment about me is completely untrue. I DO relate very, very much to what others feel. Prehaps you can tell me why YOU feel this way and what I said that made YOU, not others, feel this way. Again, it is difficult for me to respond to this without specifics. I need you to tell me in the moment that it happens what I said that gives YOU this feeling.

"I feel like you are interpreting what I or others say instead of asking them what they mean"

Maybe there is some truth in this statement and I will keep that in mind.

"I feel like you are projecting your feelings and reactions onto others"

Again, lease keep this to what YOU feel, not others. Maybe I do this at times and will keep it in mind.

"I feel like you think that you are the one who knows what is best for others, how they should or should not feel, what they should do and that this is the only way"

O.K. I do often feel that way about my thinking, however, while I may feel this way I also point out why I think what I do about their situation and why I think my suggestion would be helpful. I do try to take ownership for my opinions by saying "I think" or "my opinion is". I then release it and leave it up to the person whether they find what I said helpful or not.

Certainly, I can be wrong about someone's situation at times. Certainly I can misunderstand someone's situation at times.

"I feel like you are assuming to know what others know, how they feel, or what they think"

I'm not sure about this one. I often do say 'it sounds like you feel'. If I say this to YOU you are free to correct me and say 'no, I don't feel such and such'.

"I noticed that you are reading only what you prefer to take from others’ posts addressed to you, instead of the message which is there"

Again you are talking about 'others' and not YOU. I'm not clear what you are trying to say here without any specific examples.

"I feel like you are very sensitive to any mistreatment from others towards you, while you seem to feel entitled to do exactly the same towards them without acknowledging it"

Yes, I am very sensitive to any mistreatment from anyone.

Are you saying here that you feel I mistreated YOU? Again, it is most helpful to me if you keep this about your interactions with me. I would like to know what I have said to YOU that caused YOU to feel mistreated so that I can correct that. I am very sorry if you have felt mistreated by me.

"I feel that you are almost impossible to approach with any feedback, because at every attempt to give you feedback which is not praising and positive, you are saying that you feel judged, attacked or both, or that the other poster has some personal issues to deal with"

I think what is going on here is not that I only respond to positve feedback but rather its not what's said about HOW it is said that I respond to.

I do feel judged, attacked or both, or that the other poster has some personal issues to deal with in the way that I receive negative feedback.
here.

I feel justified in feeling this way because the things you ascribe to me about being judgemental are the very things I feel about the WAY negative feedback is given to me.

It works both ways. I do need to be more careful and try to use words that do not sound judgemental but I need the SAME consideration when comments are made about me.

Also, I am willing to take responsibility for MY part in my conflict with you but I am not willing to take 100% responsibility for the whole problem. There are two people here. Some of it is about me but some of it is about you. Are you saying you want me to take 100% of the responsibility for the conflict between you and I when you say "other poster has some personal issues to deal with".

Are you saying this is not true about you that you have no personal issues to deal with in your reaction to me?

"I feel judged when you say that there is a lot of anger in my words, when there is none and I am just trying to give you my feedback or I am voicing my opinion"

O.K. maybe I'm wrong about that. I'll be sure to check that out in the future before I say that.

However, I don't think I'm completely off here because you did say "There was [anger] in the past"
further down in your post.

"I feel talked down to when you are saying that I have a limited understanding"

I do not remember saying 'you have a limited understanding'. I need to know more about the post.

"I feel patronized when you say that I (or others) have a right to my opinion, that this is only my opinion, or that my opinion is not a fact"

Why does this make you feel patronized? I often say the samething about my own opinion.

"I think it is a defense in form of denial on your side to refuse to engage in conversation with someone who cares to communicate with you"

This is incorrect about me. This has not been my reason for refusing to communicate when I do refuse. You are doing to me EXACTLY what you say I have done to you, assuming what I feel rather than asking what I feel.

My concern is that the communciation will become dysfunctional based on how I perceive the comments were made to me and I then do not feel safe and want to protect myself from a dysfunctional exchange. I am very, very willing to have a healthy and safe communication with anyone about any issue.

"I think it is inappropriate and condescending to talk about your wisdom after 20 or 25 years in therapy; not many can possibly match that, some didn’t even live that long."

Why do you feel this way? The fact is many, many people have ASKED me how I have gained so much knowledge and healthy relationships. I have responded by answering that question. How can that be condescending?

What does "some didn’t even live that long." have to do with it?

"There was [anger] in the past, but I managed to distance myself from this site and all those issues to the point that they are not upsetting me anymore."

Are you saying you did not want to communciate with me further because it upset you? Yet you say "I think it is a defense in form of denial on your side to refuse to engage in conversation..."

Does this apply to you as well?

I am very receptive and always have been to hearing what YOU do need or want from me. This is much more helpful to me than a laundry list of how you perceive what is wrong with my comments to you.

You have always been free to ask for what you want and need from me during our exchanges rather than getting angry and upset and going away.

I am not saying you are wrong to do that but I am saying maybe it would have been more helpful to both you and me had you communicated with me in the moment rather than now way after the fact when I don't remember much about the posts which was awile back. This is not a form of denial. I honestly do not have the best memory.

"There is no anger in me or my words whatsoever.

There was in the past, but I managed to distance myself from this site and all those issues to the point that they are not upsetting me anymore. I preferred that instead of approaching you and others who were upsetting me, after my pain was gone."

I am deeply sorry if I have caused you any pain. I am also sorry that I didn't know about this much sooner.

February 4, 2006
12:26 pm
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Matteo
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kathygy,

Thank you so much for your positive and open response. I am so glad that we can communicate about it. I will respond probably in parts later on, because I don't have much time now. The whole issue truly deserves more detailed answers, you are absolutely right about it.

For now, I just wanted to say, that whenever I said "I feel like..." and mentioned "others", I meant others and myself - because those "others" issues were very closely connected to mine. I would never say that your feelings are wrong; nobody's feelings are ever wrong. But like when loving someone who is a really bad partner, I think it is useful to explore further why do we have certain feelings, why do we both feel judged, when we say we do. This is what I am asking you to do, not to yake a 100% responsibility for both of us.

Yes, I didn't want to engage in the conversation which we are having right now, because I thought it would cost me (and you) too much emotionally - I mean life is stressful enough. Right now I am able to discuus it calmly, because I don't have any negative emotions towards you; one of the reasons is that I was able to understand better your story, as I mentioned before.

I hope that we will continue and I am sure we will both be able to benefit from it. I will get back to you with my answers shortly. Take care.

February 4, 2006
1:28 pm
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gingerleigh I'm curious to know examples of where the following is true:

>> when I read your posts, I often feel talked down to and preached at.<< I myself have felt that Kathy really sort of goes into my world, tries to understand with a lot of care and then gives frank straight advice. I think thats very good.

February 5, 2006
12:51 am
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guest_guest,

Just like in the real world, we get along more so with some people and not so much with others. That is normal human interaction. Therefore, it is normal human interaction in cyberspace too. My point is that your good feelings and experiences do not cancel out ginger's or lolli's not so positive experiences. If they feel hurt, they have the right to say so, and say it in a respectful and assertive manner.

I have been posting on here for a little over a year. Throughout the year I have noticed that kathyg has had some very positive advice and interactions with others.

On the other hand, a few times I have felt somewhat offended by some of kathyg's responses to others and at times to me. I have always felt reluctant to bring it up however, because I have seen how defensive and "mean" kathy's responses can be. I sure never wanted that hostility I perceived at times from kathy directed at me!! However, it is a sign of my growth as a person and my growing self esteem that I am now willing to state my perception of events and share my opinion.

Please don't get me wrong. I am not attacking you, kathy. You have much to offer to people on this site. But, in my opinion and with all due respect, if there is even the slightest whisper of criticism that you perceive is directed towards you... you pull the "judging me" card and you shut down. Why?

It hurts when criticism is unmerited and it is negative. But sometimes, taking a hard look at criticism and seeing if there is any grain of truth in it can be a catalyst for growth.

Respectfully,

~~bonita

February 5, 2006
1:18 am
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hi bonita, thanks. Then can you also quote some examples of what kathyg said which offended you? I'm curious to know.

February 5, 2006
2:43 am
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guest_guest,

I would rather not because to do so would only open up old wounds and would serve no purpose other than to satisfy curiosity. Besides, all of that is water under the bridge.

I prefer to move forward and continue coming to know and love myself.

I am codependent and have been in recovery for the past year, yeah!!!

Sincerely,

~~bonita

February 5, 2006
2:04 pm
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kathygy
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matteo,

I am happy to hear back from you and am hopeful about working through any issues with you.

bonita,

it is very difficult for me to respond to your comment without knowing exactly what I said that caused you to feel "defensive and "mean" kathy's responses can be."

I ask that you tell me when that happens in the moment.

you say "Besides, all of that is water under the bridge. " obviously not if you are bringing it up now.

I want to remind you what the site coordinator said about ginger's feedback to me.

"But when we have an "issue" such as Gingerleigh is saying she does (her buttons are pushed by kathy in some way) then it IS IMPORTANT to bring that up... it benefits ginger, could benefit kathy, and the rest of us can sit back & learn too."

It is not helpful for me when you talk about other people. I can only respond to what YOU percieve.

Rather please speak to me about YOUR reactions to me only. I would be happy to respond and work through issues you have with me but I need to know what I said that you reacted to.

February 5, 2006
2:21 pm
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bonita1
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kathy,

I hold no ill feelings towards you. But, like I said before, I prefer to move forward and concentrate on my recovery.

Sincerely,

~~bonita

February 5, 2006
2:31 pm
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Ok, bonita, I understand, not a problem.

I think gingerleigh should atleast quote examples because then how do I know if it was offensive or not. Anyway I was interested in seeing those quotes. And I know she didnt like others to write in this thread, but everyone started writing which is ok now, I guess since the damn was broken and the water flowed. Anyway, moving on, yes.

February 5, 2006
2:39 pm
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kathygy
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lolli,

"I'm sorry to say Kathy but I believe that your behavior on these threads is very unhealthy. Despite the sound advice that you have given to some here, I feel that you have many issues that perhaps you really should take an honest look at. You have no problem "talking the talk" when telling others what they should or should not do....perhaps you could try "walking the walk".

If this isn't a judgement I don't know what is.

I need to know exactly what I said that causes you to make these assumptions about me. Making general statements is not helpful to me. I can learn nothing from these kind of comments. Can you be specific?

I am very willing to talk things through with you if you can give me feedback without you judging me.

If you say things like 'I feel critized' and what I said specifically that gave you that feeling then I am very willing to respond to that and take responsibility for my part.

Also, it would help me a lot to know what specific feelings I bring up in YOU rather than you telling me my behavior is unhealthy. Do you feel angry, do you feel hurt, do you feel de-valued, etc? and what I said that caused you to feel that way. What do you want and need form me?

I am very willing to examine my behavior but I need you to be specific in the moment. I also need to know how that behavior effected YOU.

I feel like you want me to take 100% responsibility for your feelings and reactions to me. I am very willing to take responsibility for my part but not for the whole situation with you. Again it is very hard for me to do this without specifics.

You say you don't think I am willing to look at myself. I am willing but I don't think the answer to that is that I say 'yes' everything you said about me is true. Are you willing to look at YOUR part in our exchanges?

I don't see how this can be resolved with just focusing on me and what you percieve about me. I feel this needs to be a two way street. This is the only way I beleive that it is possible to communciate with you.

I would very much like to work through this conflict with you.

February 5, 2006
2:41 pm
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yeah, hi guest!

You see that is the point...YOU do not know IF it was offensive or not because you are not ginger. She felt offended and hurt and whether or not you agree or not is beside the point. She's entitled to her feelings. That is all I wanted to point out.

Hope you are having a great Sunday.

~~bonita

February 5, 2006
4:06 pm
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lollipop3
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Hi Kathy and thank you for taking the time to respond to my posts.

At this point I can't give you specific examples, although I do believe in the past,that I have brought things to your attention "at the moment" and you chose at the time to answer by saying that you "felt judged" and refused to continue the discussion. As I said, I don't remember exactly "when" those times were, as I do have issues of my own and can't keep track of every exchange I have ever had here. If I remember correctly, one exchange may have been in the "smoking" thread and the other that I remember clearly was in your thread titled "kathy's breakup" or something to that effect. I know there have been other times , which you, yourself, acknowledged several posts up when you said ...."I feel like you have an issue with me for some time now that goes beyond this thread as I've seen it pop up in other threads" I just don't remember what they are at this time.

At this point, I think you are very well aware of what myself, ginger, matteo and bonita are talking about. And like Bonita, I don't feel it necessary to rehash old threads and to spend time looking for specific things you have said in the past that may have offended me.

As far as me saying...."I'm sorry to say Kathy but I believe that your behavior on these threads is very unhealthy. Despite the sound advice that you have given to some here, I feel that you have many issues that perhaps you really should take an honest look at. You have no problem "talking the talk" when telling others what they should or should not do....perhaps you could try "walking the walk".....

Call it a judgement if you will.

The only thing I can say about it is, it is my opinion. And it is my opinion that was formed after repeatedly trying to engage you in healthy communication, which time and time again, you refused to engage in.

I have been very clear on my feelings and I feel that I have been very clear in trying to explain to you why I feel the way I feel. At this point, I need to let it go.

However, in the future, I will continue to address you "at the moment" that I feel I need to and I will take you at your word that we can then have a mature, healthy discussion regarding the issue at hand.

Take care,
Lolli

February 5, 2006
5:55 pm
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lolli,

I only know matteo feels. I do NOT know very well what is going on with ginger or bontia or you.

My concern in communicating with YOU is about what's going on with YOU not what's going on with others.

They can communicate with me directly about what's going on with them. Your comments about others does not help me understand you.

as the site coordinator said:

"It's also, very important, in the name of communication, to not tell people we won't converse with them. Instead, I encourage everyone to "ask" why someone posted what they did if we feel threatened, attacked, or confused. Ask them (Ginger in this case) to explain further. Get clarification. Find the issue. Find the button. What's the button that gets pushed in Ginger? How will we know if we don't ask? "

This I am trying to ask you. What's the button being pushed? All I know about how you feel that is you don't like the way I respond to some posts but I know nothing about what's going on with you below the surface.

I have tried to ask you to explain further with no results. I am trying to find the issue with you again with no results other than you don't like what I say or how I say things but this tells me NOTHING about what's going on with YOU in this regard.

I realize that it may be difficult to locate past posts where you didn't like how I expressed myself however, it is a crucial part of helping me understand why you say the things about me that you do.

Just saying that you told me how you felt in the past is not helpful at all. I cannot respond to that comment because I don't remember what you said. My memory is not so great that I can recall past exchanges with you. All I can remember is that there were times when there was a conflict.

Are you saying you have NO part in the conflict between you and I?

Are you saying you are not willing to look inside of you?

I think it is important to discuss this issue now because next time I come across something you post and I want to reply I have no idea what you need or want. I have NO idea what I am saying that is upsetting you. If you can tell me then I can take that into account when I respond to something you post.

February 5, 2006
6:14 pm
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lolli,

part of what I am trying to saying in keeping the commmunication between you and I, about what's going on between you and I is that I CARE about what YOU are feeling and I want to make things better but I need your help in understanding what you are feeling beyond not liking how I frame some of my posts. Can you tell me what FEELINGS come up for you?

February 5, 2006
11:15 pm
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lollipop3
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Kathy,

Okay....to the best of my recollection.....at times, when reading your posts, I found them to be very cold, unemotional, and judgemental and that made me feel angry. When you say things such as.....*I* would never do this, or *I* would never do that or, you SHOULD... or you SHOULD NOT.... etc. That also makes me feel angry. It makes me want to say to you "Kathy, who do you think you are telling these people what they should or should not be doing" I don't think you have the right to tell these people what they should or should not do. It is one thing to "suggest" or to say "my advice would be" ...but when you say someone "should" or "should not" it makes me feel as though you think you have all the answers.....and you don't.

When you say things like....." I can't believe ANYONE would think that I would do or say something dysfunctional....." It makes me think that you think you are superior and would never make a mistake. That makes me angry. Nobody is perfect Kathy...not even you.

When people, including myself, have tried to talk to you and you pull out the "I feel judged" card.....It makes me angry. And when I, as well as others have tried to explain ourselves...to no avail.....it makes me angry.

When I try very hard to word things "exactly right", which I consider having to pussy foot around you, so that I can get my point across to you and you harp on that ONE WORD that you can use to avoid the issue....such as when I say things like.....when people disagree with you, you get very defensive.......you automatically jump on the fact that I used the word "people" instead of me. Then instead of addressing the issue at hand, you avoid it by coming back with.....you need to speak for yourself instead of saying "people". You know very well what I am saying but you use the words I use to avoid the issue. That makes me feel angry and it makes me feel frustrated.

I believe in my heart that you knew all of this anyway, but just for the sake of clarity....those are my feelings. I wanted to talk to you about this two weeks ago, but if you remember correctly...you couldn't be bothered. I apologize for the sarcasm, but just like a lot of other people in my life....nobody seems to want to talk about anything in a mature, healthy fashion until *I* have had enough and lost my patience. Now all of sudden you want to talk about it. You wanted to know "what buttons you behavior has pushed in me"....well, now you know.

And just for clarity's sake....when I refer to "other people", I do so because you responses to some of them make me angry even when I am not involved.

You want to know what I think my part in this is.....

My part is that I shouldn't let your behavior affect me. I shouldn't allow myself to get angry and frustrated by the behavior of a stranger. And I shouldn't feel the need to "defend" others. That is something I will continue to work on.

Again, I'm sorry for my harsh tone. I just really wish you had been willing to talk about this sooner.

As I said earlier, in the future, if I have an issue, I will continue to bring it up at the moment, and hope that we will be able to resolve it or come to an understanding in a mature and healthy way.

Sincerely,
Lolli

February 5, 2006
11:40 pm
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Kathy,

I went to bed after I wrote this and the more I thought about it, the more I feel like NOW I am attacking you. I had to get back up and let you know that was never my intention and I'm sorry. I only wanted to perhaps have you take a look at your wording and consider how it may affect others.

I really do wish that we had been able to discuss this earlier, but as far as I'm concerned, it's water under the bridge. I hope that we can move past this and continue to post to each other in a mature and healthy manner.

Good night Kathy, sweet dreams.

Love,
Lolli

February 6, 2006
12:11 am
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gingerleigh
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My own background, a little... I've been coming here since 1999. I first came here when I needed help desperately, and this site was what gave me the courage to seek outside help and get my life back.

This site has taught me so much. One poster in particular (called Molly) kicked me in the ass so hard I tasted shoe leather. But once I stopped crying after I read her response to me, I realized that she was right. And I started to change my life. And things got better. I still thank the "unsinkable" Molly for her wise and well-put advice, and every now and then I do tip a glass of excellent California Chardonnay towards her direction for all that she has taught me.

A few months after my melt down, a poster showed up (sadly I don't remember her name) who was torn up terribly by her home situation, where she had found out that her only daughter was being raped routinely by her own husband (her daughter's stepfather). A recipient of abuse myself as a child, I unleashed a lifetime of anger on this woman, ripping into this woman for not taking more action to protect her little girl rather than cry over her being torn between her flesh and blood and the man she loved. Was I right or wrong? It doesn't matter. The woman was here looking for help, and I wasn't helping. What I was saying might have been "right" but it wasn't appropriate. This woman needed encouragement to puff up and protect her child. She didn't need to be shamed and humiliated for not being a good enough mother. She already felt that way, she didn't need it from me, a complete stranger.

That poster with the little girl didn't come back. I don't know if I chased her away, if it was all my fault, but I do feel responsible. For all I know, her little girl might have continued to get raped every night because I was so cold to her mother. I might have been "right" but was that what was needed? I don't think so.

Ever since then, I've tried very hard to balance my messages with logic and with a softness intended to let the person know I'm talking to that I recognize that they have control over their own lives and that the path they choose may be different than what I would recommend, but that's ok. I would rather have someone make a poor decision but keep coming here and be willing to try something else than get driven away due to communication style or message delivery.

February 6, 2006
12:53 am
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gingerleigh
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Kathy,

So to follow up on my last post, I feel that it's not the advice that you give which upsets me. Quite the contrary... I like what you have to say. You advise people to love themselves, and as such to hold themselves to decent standards, and to treat themselves with love and to steer clear of those who do not. What upsets me is the "high handed" tone that I hear emerging, suggesting that people are engaging in dysfunctional behaviors, and that you yourself could never engage in such behaviors. I'm not going to root through threads to find examples. Please don't ask me to point them out. I'm hearing them in your posts often enough to impress me with the patterns.

If you had never been unhappy or unhealthy enough to engage in dysfunctional behaviors that are described on this site, you wouldn't be here at all. Please use that experience to encourage and support us all and give us all some hope that we too can learn to love ourselves the way that you love yourself. It's so inspiring to some people (at least me) to hear advice from someone who has been where I have and is offering love and support.

February 6, 2006
8:06 am
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Impossible for me atleast to see what the issue was unless I saw some direct quotes.

February 6, 2006
8:49 am
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Notsure
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So Ginger it was okay for Molly to kick you "so hard that you tasted shoe leather" but you find Kathygy's posts hard to take.

I think opinions are what they are....views based on a personal perspective and concluded/generated through an analysis of the infornation that has been provided and that is at hand. Sometimes others' opinions make sense and other times they don't. Sometimes peoples' views are deliverd well and other times they may seem a little harsh.

Often though it depends on how receptive the person receiving the opinions/view is to hearing something that they may not really want to hear and thus they get upset, feel it to be unfair or whatever.

Regards. Notsure.

February 6, 2006
10:57 am
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gingerleigh
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Guest_guest, I'm not interested in dragging up direct quotes simply to satisfy your curiosity. If Kathy asks for direct quotes, then I'll provide them at her request, not yours.

Notsure, what I should have mentioned in the posts from Molly is that Molly's asskicking came from a place of "I've been there and don't want you to get further hurt the way that I did". I find tough love feedback much more effective if it's coming from someone who's already been there and done that (and also lets me know!) and really is giving me the feedback because they have lived through it, not because it's dysfunctional behavior that I should never have gotten stuck playing out in the first place.

I fully agree with your last statement: "Often though it depends on how receptive the person receiving the opinions/view is to hearing something that they may not really want to hear and thus they get upset, feel it to be unfair or whatever."

What we have to keep in mind is that a lot of the people who are coming here aren't in a healthy place where they can process healthy advice, and we run the risk of scaring very sensitive people away, and we definitely DON'T want to do that.

What I'm asking for from Kathy (and everyone) is that before we click on the "I followed Guidelines" button, we all read over what we've just posted and imagine reading it ourselves, from the other's person's point of view as best as we can imagine, and determine whether what we've said and how we've said it is truly helpful or not. This seems like a very reasonable request to me.

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