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Karin, Hope, Cici, Tears, Askme,& All II
December 5, 1999
7:00 pm
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kitten
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Where is everybody? The old thread took too long to load...let's try a new one. We need to catch up. Hope you are all well!

December 5, 1999
9:23 pm
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KTHOMAS
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Hi Kitten. I miss Tears...she hasn't been on for a while...I am hanging in there. How about a roll call? "Here".

December 6, 1999
12:43 am
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lost soul
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Hi friends,
I am here!Thanks for remembering.I am fine.how about the rest?

December 6, 1999
5:52 am
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Hazza here,
where is everybody???
take care

December 6, 1999
10:49 am
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Cici
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Hi everyone. I hope the holidays aren't making everyone as crazy as they're making me!!!

December 6, 1999
11:04 am
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Yes, holidays can suck at times, but one thing that will make it better is if all of us check in to chat. Tears, where are you?

December 7, 1999
9:12 am
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lost soul
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Yes tears, where are you? we have not hear from you for a long time. Just want to make sure that you're OK.

December 7, 1999
4:12 pm
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Angelwings
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im here
im fine, thanks for asking friends.
Well im doing great thankyou. I chose a more positive name, hope you like it.
Well, things couldnt be any better, I am growing and healing at a rapid rate and really learning to find joy and peace in life.
My husband and I are working together, on our relationship, and you know what......it really takes two to tango.
I am seeing a lot of my own participation, he hurts as much as me.. I am not taking responsibility for his actions but I am taking responsibility for mine, I realise I can be suffocating at times we my abandonment fears and preocupation with my spouse, even though I have come so far...I still have a ways to go. I am sooooooo proud of myself, and so clear in my head, my life and my feelings. A lot of feelings have been coming up for me and continue to and I am working through them, no longer suppressing or denying them but accepting them and protecting myself from further emotional pain and suffering by asserting strong boundaries with family and aquaintances and future friends. My energy has changed to that of a much more positive person who dwell on what i DO have in life, not on what I DONT have, and if there is something I DO want and feel I am not being heard, I take personal responsibility to assure that I get that need met, me, no one else.
IT is my responsiblity to assert my needs, express myself and keep my boundaries strong and my self esteem growing. Cici, you are doing so great girl, I am proud of you. Karin, you are a strong one and I know that anything you set your mind to doing you can do, including facing all that inner pain. You have to go through it, to heal it. I also dont believe in disposable relationships, and the premise that we need to dump these guys who are hurting us.....i believe very strongly that the relationship is our greatest teacher and if we dump him, we quit learning and growing and will only attract another of the same.
I believe strongly in a guiding higher power that is our soul and always has the final say, and should always be respected and listened to for the soul is the wisest and has your best interests are heart always. Blessings
oh yes, I am having probs with the holidays too, I am deciding to do something non traditional that will bring my immediate family together in laughter and joy. Skiing, snowboarding and hot toddies all around.
Happy holidays. Remember, believe in yourself, cause no one else will if you dont. s.w.a.k

December 7, 1999
10:07 pm
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Jaskid
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Hi Everyone,

For the first time in a long time, ( I don't know it that sounds right) anyway I am feeling so much better. I am not as depressed all of the time and I am starting to recognize how far I have really come.I am begining to really feel the change inside of me. My thoughts are more positive and I feel joy, peace and hope inside of me. Everyday I celebrate just being alive. I really lost sight of all of the blessings that are in my life. I have begun to learn to let go some of the painful memories of my past that made me so unhappy and I am focusing on this moment and the next.

Jaskid 🙂

December 7, 1999
11:12 pm
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kitten
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I am happy to see both Jaskid and Angelwings are doing so well. You guys deserve a round of applause. Great. Now, what's the secret? I'm sure it was a lot of work... I hope to be there someday with you. We are all exceedingly proud of you!

December 8, 1999
6:26 am
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hazza
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keep on flyin' angelwings!
Hugs Hazza

December 8, 1999
11:10 am
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Cici
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Wow. All of a sudden the tenor of the site has changed...I'm feelin' a positive vibe, ladies. 🙂

December 8, 1999
11:28 am
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Angelwings
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lol....wow Jaskid, im really proud of you. I know how you are feeling. It really is amazing when we start to realise that we are not powerful, in fact we are all powerful, we do not have to depend on any outside sources to bring us to this point.
Prayer, hope, learning, faith and self responsibility (and some counselling) had a lot to do with my new attitude. When one is going through much suffering, we are also going through much growth and spiritual development. Find meaning in the pain, know that god is trying to bring us to a higher point in our lives.
Know that unresolved childhood issues continue to haunt and repeat untill you recognize this and act upon it in a way that makes your inner child feel loved and secure.
Hazza, you are truly a walking miracle! You couldnt even leave your house or conceive of living life without your partner there with you every step of the way. You have since flown to canada, accepted your raising, became independent of your partner and write such strong, wise words. It truly is a miracle. Same for cici, remember how depressed and out of control she was with all the drugs, its amazing, as so fast!
Kitten, you will make it too sensitive one, you just need to focus on what you HAVE, not what you DONT HAVE.
Blessings

December 8, 1999
12:55 pm
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Angelwings
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sorry that first sentence was supposed to say"that we are not POWERLESS" whoops

December 8, 1999
10:07 pm
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KTHOMAS
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Angelwings...I have missed your words. I warmed my heart to see you again. Thank you for the encouragement. I am backing my husband...I love him and even with the hard times we are still in for...he is worth it. What we have is truely a "one of a kind" thing...and I am fighting for us.

I am glad everyone is feeling so positive...makes me feel the same way. And that saying of looking at what we do have and not at what we don't have...well I was given that message a while ago and now it's been confirmed for me. That is where I must dwell. And therefore...were I will be...:)

Kitten...the clouds may be there...but the rainbow is just on the other side...waiting to shine brightly for you in the most radient colors.

Talk to you all soon, Love, Karin

December 9, 1999
11:33 am
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Angelwings
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Beautiful words Karin, thankyou and bless you.
I pray that you and your son have a light filled xmas and know that it is abundant when you can feel the presence of god with you both.
Kitten, talk to us some more girl, you are a fine weaver of silken words and as sensitive as a rose petal. You really add a creative touch to the group.
Dont you worry about him, try to go it alone. Find strength from your soul/higher power and friends.

December 9, 1999
12:50 pm
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kitten
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Thank you, both, Karin and Angelwings.It touches a spot deep in my core when you express so much love. I am most appreciative.

As for him, well, there is so much going on. Many of my friends tell me to cut him out of my life. I can not do that. To do so would be going against my inner being. I can stop, however, playing the victim. So far, I've been doing a good job. We must always remember that when two people come together, there are two karmas involved. There is no doubt he loves me. I see it on his face...a sudden tenderness that overwhelms him. He struggles. To give in, is to give in and face years of fear.He, too, is a novice at all of this. Just as I can't be rushed, neither can he. It will work...my higher soul tells me, whispers to me. As much as we may ride this roller coaster together, I know I am his connection to, not only reality, but to that spiritual, all-loving place. He has never known unconditional love. NEVER. Not that I will sit and let him abuse me, no, I am sticking to my boundaries. He has to learn about love, and I beleive he is--slowly.

A.W...I will try to write soon, but I am deep into the final week of classes, so much to do, so little time. All I can seem to think of is...psychology stuff.

Peace be with you all, my dear loving sisters.
k

December 9, 1999
3:35 pm
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Angelwings
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kitten, neither you or anyone else holds "that connection to that spiritual, all-loving place" and neither is he for you. The victim role really is just that, a role, we can choose another in the play of life.

December 10, 1999
1:31 am
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kitten
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Au contraire, Angelwings, the connection to that spiritual all-loving place, is the one that exists between he and I. Perhaps I was not clear. It is not connection to Spirit to which I was referring. That is a road he walks and needs to travel alone. We do that ourselves.

yes, you are correct, victim is a role. One I choose not to play. Instead, I choose to "be" and embrace all of my options in life. And there are many.

December 10, 1999
2:37 am
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So jaskid and Angelwings, how did you do it...? Whats helping you the most?

December 10, 1999
6:57 am
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lost soul
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Good news!!!

December 10, 1999
10:39 am
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Cici
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I hate to but in...

but did anyone read the article who's link I posted a few weeks ago? It was written by an existential psychologist who has some theories on relationship dynamics. Granted, his comment on open marriages is purely male (ha ha). BUt he has some great points about relationships...the idea of the fantasy relationship that long-term couples often delude themselves with and all that. Here's the link again, if anyone's interested...

http://www.salon.com/mwt/featu.....index.html

C.

December 10, 1999
10:41 am
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bel
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Hello,

I don't post much just usually read, but wanted to say that things are better for me also. My son and I are getting along much better, not as much verbal abuse going on anymore. What's my secret? Well one thing I did do was putting my son's feelings in there with mine, I noticed that he felt depressed alot, felt like he was not worth much and I went from there. I started to talk to him more, listen more without getting my feelings hurt or getting upset all the time. I started to stay off the computer as much and spend time with him and my grandson and it has helped lots! Everything is not 100 percent better but I could say about 50 percent better. He still has a terrible temper and gets upset very easy so I we need to address that issue but all in due time. So just wanted to share my Happy News also! It's good to see alot of you doing and feeling better...

Hugs to you all
Always
Bel......:)

December 10, 1999
12:04 pm
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Angelwings
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That is really wonderful Bel. I do believe when our children are acting out in unhealthy ways, they are simply wanting love and support from one or both parents.
You are a wonderful, and special mom and grandmom to have seen this, wonderful.

Well guest, one thing i realise, despite the fact that I was "giving and helping others" It was basically me trying to control things, I was doing it for my own benefit. There was a pay off, I decided that I really was way too self centred and this was what was causing a lot of the depression. When I say "self centred" I mean, manipulating and controlling my external reality in order to personally gain in kind of a vicious and sad way. Its hard to explain......
I wasnt being selfish in the true healthy way. I have now discovered that my attempts to control and BLAME others had a lot to do with my own personal disappointments and fears regarding my personal desires and dreams. I was obssessed in a way with blaming my mom for the effects she had had on my personally with her cold and often cruel ways.
Yes she was this way, this was not a figment of my imagination, there was some physical abuse by her, but mostly emotional and verbal. This really affected me as you can all imagine and the early bonding was not there as it should be. She is british and felt that leaving me in my room ( I hear it was a dark attic) to cry was the right thing to do and would settle me down. When basically it created a strong feeling of abandonment in me as well as a fear of the dark at night.....
This abandonment issue poured into my relationships and matched me up with distant, cruel, abandoning men.
Well of course this dynamic played out with me blaming them and feeling the VICTIM but I did not fully understand I was 50 percent of the problem
I had adopted this VICTIM role well, I had underlying issues of fear of abandonment which suffocated everyone, I couldnt form healthy relationships with women ( mom ) because of my unending focus on taking from the relationship and my partner for ME.
YOu are not loving ME, you are not giving to ME, you are not spending time with ME, you are not thinking of ME etc...these things were all true, but my partner had his own issues which made him a DISTANCER.
It was a toxic dance that couldnt be won, unless one of us became concious of our issues, patterns and very selfish role in the relationship. Fortunately that was both my husband and myself.
My recent ( and last, hopefully ) I became cognizant before him and began to change at a cellular level, it felt like. He saw this and felt uncomfortable and I guess afraid. Just as my family rejected me because I was changing so was he in a way.
( Incidently my family and I are getting along and are all coming together at my house for xmas )
I have learned that rejecting my mother, blaming and trying to control her basically blocks me from all good things in my life. OUr relationiship with our mother is one of the, IF NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT RELATIONSHIP IN OUR LIFE AND IF WE HEAL THAT, OTHERS FOLLOW.....like a dominoe affect.
Now i am beginning to genuniely give to myself and I know eventually I will be able to genuniely and authentically give and love others........
I will no longer hold anger, fear, resentment and guilt...I let this go every day for positive emotions of responsibility, compassion, will, concious emotional control and responding to others in stead of REACTING.
It is a daily practice and the single most important thing that I did was to surrender to god each day.
There is a higher power for all of us, the great spirit is available to all of us if we just believe and acknowledge the power in transcendence and faith.
wow this was long, I think im going to print this out and include it in my book. God bless you all.

December 10, 1999
12:13 pm
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Angelwings
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Oh, I wanted to add, that "healing" our relationship with our mothers, does not require that she acknowledge the abuse or pain she has caused you nor does it require that she change and heal also. The healing all takes place within YOU. YOu need to accept who she is and what she did to you in her "mothering"
( Guest ) and you need to understand that she may actually love you in the only way she can and knew how.
You also need to understand that judging her only hurts you and you can never fully understand what she was going through or what tools or lack of tools she really had or what childhood she had. Forgiveness then follows this compassion. The forgiveness is for YOU not her. It does not justify her actions or devalue them but cuts the painful bond that you still hold to her or it can transform it. See the positive in her and other people, begin to give others a little trust, because not everyone is like her. I know for me, a nd I believe for any adult of bad parenting, one goes on to mistrust the world and people and think that everyone is similar to your childhood parents.
It becomes a scary place and you feel everyone is out to victimise you at times. Think of the maleable child mind, this is not unreasonable for you to feel this way, and it takes some time for you to change your opinions of the world and people, but you will find once you no longer live in blame, fear, resentment and basically negativity and start to project trust, compassion, caring, love, non judgmnet, acceptance and give to others in a genunine unconditional way......ONLY THE BEST WILL FILL YOUR LIFE
CHANGE YOUR THOUGHTS, CHANGE YOUR LIFE

Hey good title for my book, I wonder if that has been used?

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