Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
just curious
January 5, 2005
10:47 am
Avatar
marley
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

so I have been reading on the other posts about co-dependence and honesty and the games that people play and when you should stand by your SO or leave and I am just wondering, does everything always have to be someone else's fault? Is there always someone to blame - even yourself? Why isn't it ok for things to just not work out or for relationships to fall apart? Isn't change the way that we grow?

January 5, 2005
11:03 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Marley,

You are so right. I mean, if we tried to bake a cake with no flour, it would not work. There is chemistry involved in cooking and baking. We try a new recipe, a particular combination of additives, and sometimes what we come out with is a goopy mess. No one's fault. Just a failed experiment because certain things that were needed weren't present, or things that were present weren't needed.

Shit happens. Sometimes just because...

Ren'ai

January 5, 2005
11:12 am
Avatar
marley
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thank Ren'ai. Sometimes I feel like people don't always understand that! It seems like when something doesn't work out, there is a lot of finger pointing and (dare I say name calling?) and even subtle attempts to guilt another person because you feel that they have abandoned you. Why do we behave this way? I mean if the person left and no longer wants to be a part of your life, why do people continue to try to hurt them? what is the point? somethings are just better left alone.

I say all this and yet I look at my mom and my sister and I wish that they could get along and stop playing the blame game with each other. They won't. It is so sad and I wish I could help, but I feel like the best thing for me to do is to step back and let them work things out on their own.

Reading some of the advice on these other threads I get the impression that taking a step back to let people work out there problems is tantamount to showing that you don't care. I do care but I just don't see how I can help the situation.

January 5, 2005
11:21 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Marley,

It sounds to me like you just have a good sense of what you can control and what you can't, and that you are able to set free the things you have no power to control. That's a wonderful and healthy characteristic. I wish I could do it more consistently!

It's hard, especially if you are a codep. like me, not to want to jump in and "fix" everything whenever things go wrong, and more often than not there seems to be an element of blame attached to the "fix". Letting go is one of the most loving things one person can do for another. Too bad more people don't see it that way...

Love,

Ren'ai

January 5, 2005
11:26 am
Avatar
marley
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks Ren'ai! I really needed to read that "Letting go is one of the most loving things one person can do for another. Too bad more people don't see it that way... " I really feel like their relationship will be better and healthier if I just take a step back and let them work out their own issues with themselves and each other. I wish I didn't feel like I was somehow deserting them though (I guess that is the co-dependent part of me!)

I have read so many things on this site that suggest just the opposite on this issue (i.e. walking away to let people deal with their issue rather than standing by them for emotional support) so thanks for your support!

January 5, 2005
11:42 am
Avatar
Cici
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sometimes it's hard to let go of anger. Because it feels so unjust, you know? You see this person who was horribly abusive and uncaring, and they are still accepted by friends, family, society.

It's been a process, learning to let go. You want to see what went wrong, the blame or whatever - trying to be in control of a situation you can't control. It makes you feel safer to fool yourself into thinking that way - at least for me.

In some ways I want to still be able to help my ex get better, to teach him how to be sober and happy. I want to give him that because no one gave it to me. Maybe that's the thing - transferrence. Fix the other person because you can't seem to fix yourself?

January 5, 2005
11:46 am
Avatar
marley
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Cici - OMG I think that you are totally right. Trying to fix someone else because you can't fix yourself. That is so true! Maybe now that I feel like I am getting somewhere with myself that is why I don't feel the need to "teach" other people anything, I figure they can learn it on their own!

I still have a little dilemma about this idea that when you walk away from a bad situation that some how makes you a bad or uncaring person . . . like if you were a better person you would stick around and try to help even though it seems like nothing you do has any effect. Thoughts?

January 5, 2005
11:46 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't know Cici- sometimes I think it is hard to let people go if you have issues with that, such as attachment disorders. I have never had problems letting go of friends etc, but with ex's it gets harder. I don't know why and am working on it.

I think for most people that when you care for a significant other of course letting them go is a difficult task. It is hard to let go of someone you were intimate with, and cared for, and that were a part of your life on a daily basis. I think that is why they say break ups are so hard to do.

I think that letting go of friends is a lot easier, because you didn't have a intimate connection. At least that is what connects me.

January 5, 2005
12:14 pm
Avatar
Cici
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I struggle with that, too.

I was talking to a friend last night, lamenting - I tried SO hard with my ex. I tried to be good, to things for him, to love unconditionally and to be forgiving. I tried to love him for his faults, his good qualities, everything bad he had done, and everything good. It was never enough.

My friend said, sweetie, that's not how it's supposed to work.

I thought if I tried hard enough, to make it good, that he would WANT to get better - I thought that if I made the environment friendly enough, he would, on his own, realize how wonderful life can be with someone who truely loves you.

But my friend is right. It doesn't work that way.

I struggle with the guilt. I feel like I gave up, and it hurts. But I am trying to reprogram myself. You can't make someone change.

I wasn't trying to make him change - I was trying to manipulate him into changing. But it's the same thing, really.

January 5, 2005
12:20 pm
Avatar
marley
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Cici -

I used to think that I could help my ex if I just loved him enough and accepted him, just like you mentioned. Unfortunately your friend is right. Sometimes things just don't work out the way we want them to. I have to say though that I am happier that things are the way they are now (although it has been a year since we broke up).

After all this time together nearly three years (we are still very close) he is starting to suggest things that I have mentioned to him over the years. He has now internalized them and believes they are all his original ideas. I think it is cute how he doesn't even realize how different he is and how much he sounds like me. So maybe your ex will be the same way given time. It is really hard to resist people who love you unconditionally and only want the best for you. I am sure that despite your problems with your ex that somewhere deep down he recognizes and appreciates everything you have tried to do for him.

But honestly, Cici, there are other guys out there who aren't as much work and who treat you so much better.

January 5, 2005
12:23 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

We all do things for reasons that we don't even realize at the time. The thing is that the things that your ex did to you were HORRIFIC. And you know that as well as I do. The things you have been through have been HORRIFIC.

When you go through that much pain and drama with someone, it is SO easy to feel connected to them moreso. I use to feel that way with Mr. Jack, that since we went through all this shitty stuff, we were connected on some level. I still feel that at times. Like we know and accept eachothers bad sides and faults and that is rare to find and I might never find it again.

I tried to change him as well. I thought of all these things I could do to make him change, to be nicer, to want to spend time with me, to treat me like a girlfriend, and then sadly when that didn't work I would revert back to trying to manipulate reactions and feelings in him.

In the end, I realized that NO ONE is worth that much effort on my part. People come and go in your life, but the ones that impact us the most are the ones that hurt us the most.

He is the only person that has left me that I felt my world being kicked and destroyed and fallen apart. Now, it isn't so bad, because I have school, and friends, and family and appreciate the good people in my life.

The sad part is that it took me so long to get to this point. I did it though. And you are too.

You have been through a lot Cici, and you have learned a lot about YOU and who YOU are. You have spoken of friends, exs and so forth and we have always been on the same page as that, so I can say this, we can both do this, it will take SUPPORT, and not giving up, and sticking by one another but we will get through this.

January 5, 2005
1:10 pm
Avatar
Cici
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My ex started taking wellbutrin, and is going to "rehab" - but hey, he called me an hour after he got out of his drug class, slurring because he was drinking right before and right after the class. What motivates someone to go through the motions, even though they truely don't want to change?

January 5, 2005
1:12 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think that it is a nice theory and all to want to change, to say you will change, but the honest to god truth is that change is scary for most people and changing means having new things around you, different situations, that you aren't use to. Very few people truly enjoy change.

I think that is why it is hard for people to change. Old habits die hard as the saying goes.

You ex was and is a verbally abusive, physically abusive man. And you loved him regardless and to you as well as to me, that feels like if I can love you because of your faults not in spite of your faults, then that is enough.

Some people are never happy with what they have. They never will be.

January 5, 2005
1:23 pm
Avatar
marley
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Cici -

has your ex ever tried the 12 step program? I think that it is true some people never change but that isn't true for everyone. I have had a lot of addicts in my family and every one handles things differently.

I think for most addicts they chose the addiction because it is easier than discovery why they are so unhappy. Addicts do deserve our sympathy, but being sympathetic doesn't mean being a doormat.

January 5, 2005
1:25 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I agree Marley, I also think that many people would rather have an addiction in place so that they don't have to face reality.

January 5, 2005
1:28 pm
Avatar
Cici
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well I wouldn't try anything with him for a million dollars, now. I lament my loss. Try to regroup. But he broke down my door, threw me across the room, and tried to choke my friend to death. So, I really do give up on him, now. You can only hold out your hand so long, ya know? And you can only get bitten so hard, so many times before you just say - you know what, I feel for you, I ache for you, I hurt for you - but I can't help you any more.

He was in 12 steps. He was in AA. But he was smoking crack while I was in the ER miscarrying. For that, I can never forgive him.

January 5, 2005
1:31 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't blame you Cici, you know that everyone here's heart broke at what you went through. He has completely hurt you in the worst way possible. Worst than just ignoring you, worst than name calling, he was physically abusive and the miscarriage thing was to much. You went through a lot and forgave him time and time again.

It is not that you don't care it is that you cannot be there for him for he has hurt you beyond repair. When someone hurts me beyond repair I turn everything off.

January 5, 2005
1:31 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't blame you Cici, you know that everyone here's heart broke at what you went through. He has completely hurt you in the worst way possible. Worst than just ignoring you, worst than name calling, he was physically abusive and the miscarriage thing was to much. You went through a lot and forgave him time and time again.

It is not that you don't care it is that you cannot be there for him for he has hurt you beyond repair. When someone hurts me beyond repair I turn everything off.

January 5, 2005
1:39 pm
Avatar
marley
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Cici -

nor should you forgive him! that is awful! I guess he didn't really take to the whole AA philosophy then, did he? did you ever go to al-Anon or the other support groups for people who are involved with addicts?

I used to go alot and I didn't realize at the time how helpful the information was. I am looking to go again to get some grips on this relationship with my sister. Funny as upset as I get about ex's and friends, nothing matters to me as much as my family! But one of the things they emphasized was that you can't help addicts by enabling them to continue their behavior. Addicts are incredibly manipulative and they will turn everything around on you and act like since they have a problem you need to be there to support them and if you don't they won't get through it and it will be your fault.

What they *taught* at al-anon was that this was an excuse for them to always go back to their chosen patterns of behavior and never have to take responsibility for this behavior since they effectively roped others in to blame. Does this sound at all familiar?

You have to know that it is not your fault and all you ever did was be the best person you could and tried to give yourself to this man who was too stupid to appreciate you.

I am terribly sorry for your loss of the baby. It is the worst feeling in the world - even when you don't love the other person who helped create it - to lose a baby. It is like losing part of your soul. I am sorry.

January 5, 2005
1:47 pm
Avatar
Cici
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

thanks marley - yes. This sounds strikingly familiar. He would do things like go out to get groceries and come back smelling like beer, and then say, "Well, I went and got some drinks because you were freaking out on me about "

Can you go to al-anon even if you are no longer with the partner who is an alcoholic?

January 5, 2005
1:55 pm
Avatar
marley
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

YES YES YES YES YES!!!

I used to think the 12 step program was only for people with PROBLEMS, but it is so helpful at just understanding how we relate to addictive people. It really is empowering and so healthy!

You can locate them on-line and there are a number of other spin off groups that help too. Also going to open meetings is really good because then you can ask other addicts why they behave the way they do. The coolest thing about it is that sincerly no one judges you.

January 5, 2005
2:09 pm
Avatar
Cici
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well good. I may just get up the courage to go.

I may be determined to heal from my ex, but I still feel sick to my stomach 16 out of 24 hours a day.

January 5, 2005
4:12 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

CiCi- you might like what i wrote in almost just isn't good enough which is artist's post.

January 5, 2005
6:34 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hey twinks I have missed seeing your posts around here.

January 6, 2005
12:45 pm
Avatar
marley
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

twinks - I think you really hit on something with your post. So much of how people act and behave is because of fear. It is hard to imagine not being afraid of something.

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 349
Currently Online:
27
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 110976
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38561
Posts: 714258
Newest Members:
nina1985, February, lisabaker, robertwalker, Why.., Why.
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer | Do Not Sell My Personal Information