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It's coming at me from all sides
December 14, 2003
9:39 pm
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Zinnie
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JWT,

I'm sorry I don't have a lot of time to post right now. I will get to you tomorrow, and I feel horrible saying that after reading your post.

Take a deep breath, O.K., and know that even though you and I have never met... I am your friend, and you have many here.

Love,

Zinnie

December 15, 2003
4:50 am
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jwt
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It's 3:15 in the morning. I just had a bad dream about Elvira ... of all things. I woke up so angry and hurt. I have put so much distance between us during the past few months. But, it seems that no matter what I do to distance myself from her and no matter how much I tell myself that I don't want this woman ... she can still hurt me and make me feel rejected.

There was no way to go right back to sleep. The dream just seemed too real. What was the first thing I did? I got up and checked my cell phone to see if Elvira had called. She called twice just after midnight. I don't know why she calls my cell late at night; I'm seldom there to answer those calls. I really don't want to talk to her anyway.

It bothers me that this woman can still hurt me. It bothers me that I would even care if she calls. And, it bothers me that I would even care about this when I have so many other more important problems in my life. What's wrong with me?

I'm going to try to go back to sleep but I don't know if I can. I have been sleeping a lot, too much, lately. It's the way I deal with stress ... I escape it by sleeping. I can't go on like this much longer. I am so down about everything in my life.

December 15, 2003
8:50 am
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tooscared
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Hi Jwt. I don't have any words of wisdom for you but I did want you to know that I care. I know that you have been struggling a long time with these problems and you need some peace. Have you ever talked to your pastor or someone there about these problems with your wife, Elvira, and your daughter? I know that we try to help here, but sometimes it takes a face to face with someone to really get down deep and work on the problem.

I truly think your daughter is not capable at this point of being truthful with you or anyone else. I don't know how you can help her without continuing enabling her to get away with these behaviors. Tough love is really hard, especially when you feel like your daughter is truly not ok.

Please know that even if we don't know how to help you on here, sometimes just a listening ear is a good thing. It helps sometimes to see your words in print and know that others care. Take care Jwt and I will be praying for you and your daughter.

Love, TS

December 15, 2003
9:54 am
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jwt
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Thanks Zinnie and tooscared. When I write it down, it does help organize my thoughts and kind of get it off my chest. I really don't have anyone else to talk to about these things.

And, yes, it does help to know that someone somewhere does care.

I tried counseling with two different counselors to discuss these problems. Quite frankly, I was disappointed with the experience.

One of the counselors worked with my daughter too. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but she was initially taken in by my daughter's con game. I kept going to see her after our daughter left. She couldn't get past the idea that our daughter had a substance abuse problem. I know she wasn't able to talk with our daughter more than three times, but her problems go much deeper than substance abuse.

I saw another counselor off and on for over a year. He put most of his focus on solving my problem with Elvira. Everything he said made sense. But, I guess, there is a difference between my head and my heart. I can know that something is true but it can still break my heart. I now know that much of my problem began during childhood. I tried to get him to look into that but he was too interested in the here and now.

tooscared, you are absolutely right ... I need some peace. My faith allows me to accept my problems and has helped me to endure them for as long as I have. God has not yet shown me a path to peace. But, I still have faith that he will. I know the answer is inside me somewhere. Maybe I just lack the faith or the courage or the clarity of mind to see the answer and to follow it.

December 15, 2003
9:05 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi JWT,

I certainly hate to hear of your troubles.

Elvira? She is???? I don't know. Why would she call your cell after midnight? Lots of reasons? Bother you? Keep you on the line, so to speak - have you ever asked her when you see that she has called and not left a message especially after midnight - "hey, why did you call?" Or, to see if your wife picks up.

You daughter? That is still really hard. Her boss does have the legal right to ask for those documents if she was let go due to missing work. What became with your visits you had hoped to have with her pastor?

Zinnie

December 15, 2003
10:03 pm
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guest_guest
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jwt, then you should stop worrying about your daughter and infact tell us frankly how much she worries you and that you have many other problems. tell her i want to fix my own life, but i guess you wont listen so do what you think is right. i just think you have to focus on yourself first before you can think about taking care of a daughter. fix yourself, fix your own house then fix other's houses.

December 17, 2003
6:43 pm
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jwt
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Zinnie, Elvira says she calls because she wants to talk to me. She calls my cell phone because she knows that my wife will not hear it or answer it. She usually waits until she is in bed at night and her children can't hear her conversation. I'm sure her children would think it was strange that mom was on the phone at that hour to a man other than her fiancee.

Back when I was still hoping for a future with Elvira, I would wait for her call. We seldom talked about anything significant. It was really just small talk but the calls would last 30-45 minutes until she fell asleep. I'm sorry, but this woman is just not worth losing sleep over any more.

Elvira will call the next morning and tell me that she tried to call the night before. I will tell her that I was asleep. But, she will still do it 3-4 times a week.

Sometimes she will tell me in advance that she wants to talk to me that night. On many of those occasions, she won't call. It's just too weird.

My daughter? We have talked nearly every day for the last two weeks. Most of our conversations center on her excuses about why she didn't do what she said she would do that day. She "says" that she has straightened out the "misunderstanding" with her boss about why she quit her job. She "says" that she will be seeing her neurologist this week for a letter that says she is well enough to work. Once her boss has this letter, she "says" that she is hired and will begin work.

I have not talked to her pastors about her problems. I guess part of me still has hope that she will somehow get a grip and take responsibility for herself. And, part of me does not want to intrude into this private part of her life.

guest_guest, my daughter's problems are the most important problems in my life right now. You may be right; I may not be able to solve anyone else's problems until I first solve my own problems. However, my problems with my wife and Elvira are just causing personal misery for me. My wife and Elvira seem perfectly okay with the status quo. My daughter's problems, on the other hand, could leave her on the street or in jail. That seems more important than solving my own problems right now.

December 17, 2003
7:12 pm
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Squeezles
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"Elvira will call the next morning and tell me that she tried to call the night before. I will tell her that I was asleep. But, she will still do it 3-4 times a week."

Don't tell her you were asleep. Tell her that you were IGNORING her.

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