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Is this domestic violence???????
March 23, 2009
7:08 pm
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truthBtold
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Damn, I can't even believe I am even posting this clearly 20=25 years after being battered when I was in my 20's....now 48.

(FYI - ex-husband of over i0 years never, EVER ONCE crossed this line....EVER - and neither did I...)

See, long story short - fiancee and I have been experiencing some problems.

He got frustrated.

In the course of this past week-end - he out and out said: "FU." as it pertained to my pointing out his always burning of the breakfast sausages....

(No biggie - really - RIGHT????)

Then, later, as I was typing up something on his behalf for his company and had a question (as I usually do....)....he just let loose and popped the back of the office chair that I was sitting in....and that set into motion ALL KINDS OF SHIT for me......

He said that he felt that I was insulting his intelligence......

Now grant it, I am a bit of a major stickler (even to the point of kind of sort of being a pain in the ass..) and just wanted to get the story/charges straight and all - but all day today - all I kept doing was just reverting back to time when my ex-finace back in my 20's started to show the first sign of this crap......though notwithstanding is my own resposibility as well.....see, at one poit, he TOLD ME that he felt as if he was walking on eggshells as well - and I can well relate to that......

But then I think about the times when we get into a heated argument and he just holds me back by my shoulders and won't let me pass......couple THIS with the fact that the first time he heard me play piano - and I mean - I can really shake up the ivories....he said in passing that I was being a show-off.

Well, maybe I was.

So fricking what??????

Is there anything really wrong in that????

I dunno.

This whole shit certaintly doesn't seem to get any fricking-fracking easier the older I get...............
We are supposed to kind of get real and talk about all this tonight.....I guess I'll see where it goes............

Man oh man - what a fricking bunch of crappy lessons are STILL left to learn when not given even at least a mediocre (sp?) role model.........

I am just glad as hell I never damn gave birth to another unsususpecting, lost soul............

What a fricking can of worms...............

......ps - thanks for letting me just unload and vent here ya'll..........

March 23, 2009
7:16 pm
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CAMER
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so he hit the back of the office chair that you were sitting in??

March 23, 2009
7:22 pm
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CAMER
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does he have any anger issues, i say this cuz there seems to be alot of tension.

yeah FU is verbal abuse in my book...and your guy shouldn't say this so lightly.

it seems like maybe he will get away with things unless you tell him how these things affect you and what you will and will not put up with.

how do you feel after all this happened??

do you guys have a wedding date set??

is this a make or make or break deal, with what happended tonite??

March 23, 2009
7:27 pm
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fantas
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I would say, Yes. Any calling you out of your name, pulling your chair, etc. is inappropriate. Few abusers start with big time stuff. This is your chance to make it clear that you are to be treated respectfully or the relationship is over. I have such little confidence in how I could handle this kind of a thing long term that, I just walk at the first sign of jealousy, aggression, insults, etc. I would say, it's time to step in my book.

March 23, 2009
8:08 pm
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truthBtold
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Camer,

Thanks hun for responding so quickly!

((((Camer))))

I so appreciate it.

Yes, he hit the back of the office chair that I was sitting it.

...and no - no wedding date.

Maybe not ever.....

To answer your question on how I felt after that happened - well....not good.

MAJOR red flags!!!!!!

I'm thinking that he is pretty much passive/aggressive.

He is pretty much (hate to admit it....) a real wimp in some/most respects.

Not much I can do about that one.

Not much of a fucking backbone.

Don't know WHY THAT IS....exactly?

Like Ricky somebody said at the Mdison Square Garden Party.....you can't plese everyone - so you.... might as well - please yourself.

It just is what it is........

(I am sure - hell - just like everything fucking else in this life - just fucking boils down to fucking fear......you know?)

Fear, afterall, is just stranger to NO ONE!!!!!!

He (finacee) seems to sort of, solely, tolerate folks walking all over him - none the least - perhaps me as well.....(truth be told)......yet - after awhile - though I fought real hard not too....

Just maybe nature????

Kind of sort of....maybe....maybe not?

Just a real comfortable groove that both of us kind of silently agreed upon....maybe?

Maybe?

Both of us kind of being lazy - sort of?

HE not willing to circumvent his very valid yet perhaps....long overdue anger/frustration and me, likely, not wanting to be bothered with anything that would remotely upset my own 'norm?" sort of speak?

You know?

So - here we sit.

Neither one of us not really willing or able to really want to explore nor want to really and truly forge through any kind of mamby-pamby emotional territories ourselves....as it were.....

Yet, bottom line, either we grow apart or grow together.

I suppose that it doesn't really help matters much to know that both of us are last borns in our family.

I never really, ever gave much creedence to the birth order of myself with regard to the relationship of myself versus another 'baby' of the family....but you know what?

Has some particular strong merit.

Doesn't explain it all - no, not by any stretch of the imagination - just another factor to consider.....

...still. A real consideration all the same.

In the big scheme of it all.....all things considered.......

Maybe the reason that we both just want things our own way....being the baby of the family and all.....and have maybe, perhaps, probably not really have grown out of that stage....either one of us......

Hmmmmmmmm.....

Maybe.

Not yet?

Insightful - yet - embarrasing?

This dynamic.

Incredible.

Absolutely incredible.

More than likely - possibly, probably.....true.........

March 23, 2009
8:18 pm
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CAMER
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((tbt)) are you and him going to have the "talk" about what happened 2nite...or just wait till 2morrow or when things cool off??

March 23, 2009
8:19 pm
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truthBtold
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fantas,

posts crossed.

I am scheduling an appointment with the local mental health/domestic abuse folks for perspective to try and get a grip......

March 23, 2009
8:21 pm
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CAMER
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now TBT, does the fiance know you are going to do this?? or will that make him rage or get angry or what not??

March 23, 2009
8:26 pm
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Camer,

Yes, I plan on pointing out these various circumstances point by point.

It's nitty-gritty time.

He can either get with the program and fess up sincerely - or else, in my book, it is pretty much over.

Thing is - really - in all this mess - all it really does is just bring to light that which my partner would rather not deal with - with regard to his own crap.

But ain't that the the thing about real growth?????

All the way around?

For both of us?

You/We either fess up - basically - or you just make excuses.

Bottom line..........

March 23, 2009
8:28 pm
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CAMER
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glad you are setting your boundaries........and ahhh, if life was just easier, but its not.

you go girl for setting that bottom line!! i wish you luck (((camer)))

March 23, 2009
11:19 pm
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Anonymous
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Yeah. Excuses are f-cking annoying! Ugh! "Rolls eyes." Heck, I've been left the ex, Five Years now, and He's Still using Me as an "excuse" for his un-happiness, in not dealing with his own s-it! Oh well...got no time, for that crap, anymore! I can see it was Wise, for me to have moved on from him, when I did! Cause...the f-ker would Still be blaming me, for his s-it!

Oh, and, I agree! Those DO seem like, inappropriate actions, to me, on his part, directed towards you! They seem to border on abusive actions! So...it's good that, you're planning to take action, on that, now!

Good luck with it hun!

March 23, 2009
11:43 pm
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Hi truthBtold,

I would have to hear more of the overall pattern to say for sure if this was a battering situation.

There definitely is abuse, at least "abuse with a small 'a'" going on here.

For one thing, normal, healthy adults do NOT touch their loved ones in anger. HE needs to keep his freaking hands to himself, and if I were you I would tell him explicitly that that is a HARD limit.

His tearing you down about your piano playing is also cause for suspicion.

But, there could be a mutual annoyance/mutual combat thing going on here. His feeling like "walking on eggshells" and catching heat for his poor cooking skills are suggestive.

I'd suggest both reading Evans, making agreements and setting hard limits about verbal abuse, and of course physical expressions of anger...

And try to lighten up, and not sweat small stuff (like sausage) so much.

See what a couple three weeks working that way do for you.

March 24, 2009
8:40 am
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I agree with worried Dad's take on this situation. His anger management needs to be addressed and clearly he needs some lessons in self-esteem and self-worth so he won't be quite as sensitive to others displaying their talents, but likewise, everyone eats a few burnt sausages in their life time. I read a great story recently about this couple; the first time she made him dinner she made linguine with clam sauce for a hard core cowboy. He ate every bite and even ate the seconds she put on his plate when he excused himself to go to the bathroom. Years later he confessed to hating seafood, but if ever she asked how he liked the first meal she ever made for him, he said, "I didn't like it... but I sure did like you enough not to mention it."

And maybe that's the real issue here; you're starting to see that you don't really want to marry this person... I mean, you called him a wimp. I wouldn't marry a wimp either. But don't drag the drama out; if it's done, break it off and move on. He deserves a chance to have someone truly love him.

March 24, 2009
8:40 am
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I agree with worried Dad's take on this situation. His anger management needs to be addressed and clearly he needs some lessons in self-esteem and self-worth so he won't be quite as sensitive to others displaying their talents, but likewise, everyone eats a few burnt sausages in their life time. I read a great story recently about this couple; the first time she made him dinner she made linguine with clam sauce for a hard core cowboy. He ate every bite and even ate the seconds she put on his plate when he excused himself to go to the bathroom. Years later he confessed to hating seafood, but if ever she asked how he liked the first meal she ever made for him, he said, "I didn't like it... but I sure did like you enough not to mention it."

And maybe that's the real issue here; you're starting to see that you don't really want to marry this person... I mean, you called him a wimp. I wouldn't marry a wimp either. But don't drag the drama out; if it's done, break it off and move on. He deserves a chance to have someone truly love him.

March 24, 2009
2:06 pm
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_anonymous
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The man sounds like he is angry. FU, poppig the back of your chair is unacceptable behavior. If someone might be violent no matter what you say or what you do it will not stop them. At the very least his behavior was disrespectful, if not down right threatening. Dont put up with it.

March 24, 2009
6:47 pm
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TBT,

How are you today? Were you able to get an appointment with the mental health domestic abuse folks?

March 24, 2009
10:52 pm
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Hope the dust has settled for you, some now!

March 26, 2009
12:43 am
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fantas
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Truth, how are doing with all this?

March 26, 2009
3:01 pm
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truthBtold
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Awwww - thank you sooooo much - EVERYONE for your honest responses and support. I can't tell you how much it means to me!!!!!! 🙂

Well, I haven't heard back from the Mental Health Department to set up an appointment. All I keep getting is the answering machine - but then again, I have dial-up and am sometimes on the internet for long periods of time - so they may have tried to call and just keep getting a busy signal.

Anyway - about the sausage thing. It is really not like me to strike out like that at all.

Matter of fact, he asked me - what is really going on? I told him that I am pissed that he has been 'laying down the law' with me here lately with regards to having any cats in the house and for me to smoke outside all the time when he is not here.

This is MY HOUSE!!!!!!

Not long after were met, he got kicked out of his apartment and told me that he was being 'kicked to the curb' - so, INSTEAD of me taking a few steps back and allowing him to find other means of housing, I felt somewhat obligated to ask him to move in with me.

That was 4 years ago.

I have alot of cats. Right now, I feed about 12 a day. I have a screened in porch where I keep 7 and the rest are outside (though the 3 older outside ones used to be inside cats.)

The reaon there are soooo many is because there was a female stray that I started to feed but could never pick her up. So she just kept having litter after litter.

I tried a few times to give them away when they were kittens by posting a sign in the parking lot of the local Petsmart/Wal-mart stores....to no avail.

On a positive note, a few months ago, I WAS able to scoop her up and put her in a pet travel tote and get her fixed.

The house does smell of cat urine sometimes in the carpet. He and I are in the process of replacing this ole particle board flooring in my mobile home...(which I have been in for over 20 years) and once we replace the living room floor with new plywood and carpet, absolutely no cats inside!

I do admit that this makes sense.

But it is hard to be mandated to, you know?

Anyway....my feelings are just all over the place nowadays!

I think the driving force to me is just being so PISSED OFF that I STILL lack the skills needed to maintain a healthy relationship.

Thanks dear ole fucking dad for being such a great role model!!!!!

(Sarcasm - bastard sexually abused all of us sisters!!!!)

Anyway, I find myself in a precarious position right now.

See, for most of my adult life, I have been financially independent.

Fiercely so!!!!!

Then, right around the time I met him, I was laid off for the THIRD FUCKING TIME.....and his moving in with me helped financially.

I tried to find full time work in my field, but it is basically just non-existent anymore. Relagated to just very, very part-time and temporary 'project' related work.

So, I immersed myself into his small business. I make enough money to pay my half of the household expenses, but I find the pendulum swinging from one direction of being fiercely independent.....to one of being completely co-dependent in this sense.

And yes, evidently I have exhibited behaviors of over-stepping my boundaries with him as a while back her told me that he felt sometimes like he was walking on eggshells, and I KNOW what that is like - so I still have some more self-reflection insomuch as that is concerned as well.

With regards to the FU and the popping of the chair incident, I dunno.

I told him that it threw me back 25 years. There has been a sense of distance between us, but I am concerned that he has just not really fessed right up and said, you know - I shouldn't have done that.

He said he was sorry, but my gut is telling me that he is not really sincere about it. Maybe only sorry that I am making a big deal out of it.....maybe.

Like I said in my earlier posts, my ex-husband never, ever crossed this line and neither did I. Not in the 10 years we were together.

I could just kick myself in the ass for how I was conditioned thanks to dear ole fucking dad!!!!

See, back then, my ex-husband used to look at me with just this pure love gushing from out of his eyes....and it just didn't make sense to me.

Like it was just something foreign. Like trying to force a square peg into something that is round.

People used to say that he worshipped the ground I walked on.

I regret not trying counseling.

The main reason for our splitting up was my doing. It was basically due to the fact that he allowed his mother to push his buttons.

I was always second fiddle.

I think that he was her favorite and was the first of her 4 sons to get married and the bitch was just jealous and set out manipulative ways to come between us.

He could never see that.

Though after it was all said and done and our divorce was final, I did finally write the bitch a letter and told her that changing our wedding date twice and listening in to the conversation I had with my sister one time which was accidentally recorded on his brothers answering machine....was not her place and none of her business to do so.

My ex said that she got the letter, was furious but that he sided with me.

Oh well, maybe that might make it easier for the wives of his other 3 brothers.

Anyways - gessh - didn't intend on this being so long.....

I really don't know where to go from here.

I feel both stuck and complacent.

I have all but given up on finding a job outside of what I am doing now....(entertwined with his business...) what with the rate of unemployment approaching double digits in my state and the fricking news showing scores and scores of folks lined up for jobs for blocks around.

I just don't know what I am going to do right now.

My self esteem is the pits.

Then again - I think to myself...well, maybe I am making a mountain out of a molehill insomuch as finding a job is concerned.

I have excelled in every field I have ever been in and was even groomed a few times for advancement - but because of the way I raised, never felt deserving .....the opportunity just went right over my head....if you can believe that!

Just.....zoom - right over my head.

Now, here I am approaching 49 years old and just wondering....WTF?

Though, folks on the outside could never tell because my demeanor with even strangers is quite intelligent, charming and engaging.

Maybe it's like so many folks have told me in the past, my high school principal for one....not to cut myself short and my sis (rest her soul) said that I had talent coming out of my ass!

I am so grateful to be able to come here and just unload.

I know all of us have our problems and I want you to know how much I really appreciate everyone's time and support....

Sincerely,

tBt

March 26, 2009
3:49 pm
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Hey TBT,

Big hugs of support and love honey.
I have been down this road, and my heart is breaking for you. No, your not making a mountain out of a moe hill. This is not all your fault. Your wise enough to know, when your wrong and when your right.

Could it be maybe your minimizing things so you dont have to face them?

I say this not to offend by to, confort the issue tenderly, and give you another way to look at this..?

Keep checking into the domestic abuse numbers. It will really help you.
I had to do it when I left my ex-husband over 14 yrs. ago.

I am not sure if your much of a reader. I also hope the name of the book doesn't scare you off. I really urge you to read this book.

"Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them: When Loving Hurts And You Don't Know Why (Paperback) by Susan Forward."

This book helped me to identify the signs of domestic violence. It will help you in making deciding if you are in a relationship that can get possibly worse. Most people over look the early signs, and that is called denial.

Wishing the best, and praying for you. Or as you say (sending good vibes your way ;). ) I am here to talk .

Love and light,
tb

March 26, 2009
4:59 pm
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truthBtold
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Thanks tb,

Your post was so honest and loving and supportive.

Thank you.

Maybe, as you say, I am minimizing so I don't have to face it.

I think the thing that really IRKS me the most has been my lack of expectations in a relationship.

Not being able to set just gerneral ground rules from the getgo.

I googled the term: "lack of expectations relationships" and was surprised to find the opposite.

Not the lack thereof......but the unrealistic expectations.

Hmmmm.

I honestly don't know which one I am being????

Is it because of my LACK of expectations......or a sub-consious abundance of excessive expectations that a partner should meet all that I lacked growing up?

I think that most maddening thing about all this mess is just a general, blanket sense of confusion all the way around.

I honestly don't know if this is someone that I could/would marry?

A BIG part of this is his resistence to acknowledge any wrong-doing on his part in his divorce.

No real 'fessing-up' - to say - well, you know, I can see where she went wrong and where I went wrong as well......

I think, on the other hand, I am able to fess up to my short-comings (I think) in what contributed to my divorce.....simply because I do not want to repeat the same mistakes.

Boils down to a sense of humility.

NOT to be confused ever, EVER with humiliation.

I don't really know if my current finacee is on the same page with this.

The only time he DID kind of fess up once was about the time that his ex had mentioned a lack of stability with regard to the ups and downs of running your own business.....as I had mentioned as well.

I dunno if I can ever trust him and feel safe.

Then again.....I wonder to myself - if in somehow and in someway I may have pushed and pushed him to this point to try and work out my own internal mess.

I am not forgetting the fact that he has felt as if he were walking on eggshells - so, in some aspect, I am resposible for a part of this as well.

You know......all this fricking, fracking shit happens because of a lack of healthy role-models.

What a REAL, HEALTHY realtionship looks and feels and tastes like....you know?

Otherwise, not knowing any fricking better, we/I have a tendency to just settle.

Settle for less....as the fading in and out quote of this website reminds me of everyday......

When I talked to him about what happened....the pushing in of the chair, etc....basically, his response was that I live too much in the past.

That kind of tells me that he just doesn't 'get it.'

Any wrong doing on his part.

Like I said before, I feel stuck and complacent.

Guess that I am probably just gonna have to do the hard thing and get my shit together to become finacially independent....once again, without his business and move out of my very non-challenging and complacent comfort zone..........

(Oye - the saga continues......)

March 26, 2009
5:22 pm
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Well TBT,

I get you once again. Ok, the whole walking on eggshells. Is the tenison you both feel. You are both responsible. You for your actions, yes.... but hang on for a min.
Before, you take all the blame once again.. remember ...

He is responisble for HIS ACTIONS !! What he did was wrong.

You sound like you are struggling with facing up, to what you need to do. I get it, I avoid stuff too, when I know things are going to get unpleasent. (just another one example of unhealthly role models).

It took me years, with my ex-husband. To face the fact that I would need to change things if they were ever going to change at all. (To this day, he has still never own up to his part in it.. ).

I was also scared, of the unknown, in deinal, a bit lazy, and comfortable, an unmovitaed.

But when I finally did it... I can honestly say:

IT WAS THE BEST THING I EVER DID FOR MYSELF!!

Maybe your looking at the whole picture... when you need to take it one chunk at a time.

Seriously, keep calling the hotline numbers unitl you find a place, that well help. They will help you sort through this stuff. Get that book if you can, it give you a lot of prespective on this.

The sooner, you get yourself a good support system, the easier it will be to help you plan, and decide how you want to proceed.

I'm listening, and so are others... keep posting.

love and light,

tb

March 26, 2009
7:16 pm
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truthBtold
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tb,

You're right.

I AM struggling facing up to what I need to do.

(Boy - ain't THAT one awful, bitter pill to finally swallow....)

My sense is that he is really not taking this whole popping of the back chair serious - like I said before.

IF he did - and realized that he crossed the line and was sincerely remorselful of it - might be a different thing.

As of now....my feeling is - not so much.

There IS a local domestic/battered women's shelter that I can contact - though I hesitate because they deem themselves as a "Christin group" and lawd knows I do not want to substitute one brain-washing mindset for another.

Just want an organization humble enough to want me to gain and grasp a sense of peace and security about my own self irregardless of their own agenda.....

But maybe, I ought to just take what I can get and let the religious mumbo-jumbo just roll off of me with nary a second thought.

sigh.

Honestly, the last time I looked hard and deep into his eyes....I said to myself....is this the person you really want to marry?

Sadly, my gut feeling is no.

So what? Did he use me? Did I use him? Is this 4 year long relationship nothing more than just another fricking lesson??????

I trust you tb and will take you advice to keep calling around.

I dunno - it is just absoluetly amazing to me just how hard and long and arduous some of us have to endure to just come to an equal level emtional playing field which is just a matter-of-fact availabilty to gals decades younger than myself.....

Young gals reading this.....take heart.

Do NOT repest these same mistakes.........

Learn and set up a basic of standards and expectations.

Let the guy chase you.

Be particular.

YOU DECIDE!!!!!!!

DO NOT just 'settle.'

March 26, 2009
7:57 pm
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truthBtold
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Do you suppose that there is a difference between "percieved' lack of (employment) options vesus....'actual' lack of options....where the former is foreshadowed from nasty lackluster leftover crap from yeateryear?????

You think??????

tBt

March 27, 2009
11:16 am
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TBT,

Well the say the first step is admitting it. Yes it is a hard pill to swallow isnt ?

I stay, check with this place you have in mind. Dont worry they wont make you shave your head and, start collecting money at the airport. ;).

The first time I went, I was really nervous, a police officer gave me a number to call, after I had a huge fight with my husband at the time.
The ploice officer told me...at the time my ex was a " ass", and these kinda of things get worse not better... I rememeber standing there thinking.. you know what... this guy is right. So I made my first call, I was so unsure of what to do. But you know what... they walked me thru it.
They will do the same for you.

Go, and if your uncomfortable ask them to direct you to another place. Those places are a huge pile of resources. They can help with, support, and couseling for free.
Maybe even help you with looking for a job. Domestic shelter groups are big on self enpowerment. Since you have some time to spare, I say check it out.

Like I said ... it maybe the best thing you ever did.

Hope things are better for you today... I am here and listening..

tb

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