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Is he REALLY Suicidal?
October 24, 2002
6:44 pm
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sosos
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The first couple months in the apt. were lonely, especially because it was summer, my daughter was spending nights at friends in the town we came from, or at granma's, and the most I had with neighbors was a Hello and occasional small talk. I used to be so busy at home, all the time, but now there's two of use instead of 4, and my apt. takes about an hour or so to clean from top to bottom. So, I read books, listened to music, shopped, and yes, cried and suffered, and occasionally got myself drunk feeling sorry. But now I long for my alone time, I enjoy it and relax. I know I will be fine, and I may not have a man to love or love me right now, but I have seen and felt love from my kids, and from my friends. I know who I am now, and I really like me.

October 24, 2002
8:02 pm
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tracylyn
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Hey Sosos,

I know what you mean....I think I missed my house a lot...you know, it was my "home", the place I thought I'd stay in until I died.

I know what you mean about the alone time, mine mostly came on the weekends when my 3 kids would go to their dads. I'd be all excited for about an hour and that would wear off and I'd be like...geeee, what do I do now. I had to learn how to be alone and now, like you said, I cherish those moments and embellish in anything for me that I can.

You sound great and strong....what I always tell people is that my life was easier then, nice house, good money, I didn't work.....now I have high rent, different house and I have to work full time.....but hey....I wouldn't go back to my life before for a second.....It may be harder day to day than before but I am healthy, I am happy, I am me....now that I really know who that is.

Thanks for sharing....I totally related to your last post!!!

Be well

October 25, 2002
12:19 am
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sosos
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Thanks...these posts all really help me. A friend told me to start writing in a journal and I haven't done that. I wish I would have the day I left home. Maybe I'd have a best seller because it's been a real trip.
Lisset- my husband feels like he has no life without me. But, this like everything else in his life, is something that he does not want to deal with as a responsible adult and take the steps he needs to take care of himself. I'm not there to take care of him, and I know that's where I hurt him because I should not have been the rescuer, but he wants to feel sorry for himself, always has--even when it was good with us.

tracylyn: I talk a good game, and practice most of it, but after 23 years, reentering this dating scene and relationship scene, and talking with so many old and new friends about their relationships, I just hope I can handle myself right, and find love and companionship again.

Take Care All!!!

October 25, 2002
8:35 am
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beenthruthat
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Hi all~

Thanks lisset for jumping in. Well, the current story is that my husband was just trying to sleep and got a little out of control with the sleeping pills. And that, maybe, he was trying to get my attention.

He tells me (after this incident) that he's decided not to commit suicide because it would up his daughter's chance of suicide by 50% (take note sosos!). Of course, he had made that decision about 4 days before this but never told me.

Now, for a new twist. He visited my church pastor yesterday and told me he is now born again. Uh, I don't know what to think. He did get some sleep last night though (6 days of virtually no sleep!).

This morning he asked if his being saved changed things for me. Like, no divorce of course. I told him the week was very confusing and I don't feel it's a good time for me to make any firm decisions. Yikes! This leads me to believe he is just desperately seeking ANYTHING to keep us married.

And sosos, like your husband, mine thinks if we divorce that it will be like killing a part of himself. And like yours too, he just can't seem to take responsibility for his own life. It's really sad and irresponsible and irrational and... you get the point!

I am just dreading this weekend. I have also been sleeping too much, like it's starting to affect me and I'm withdrawing. Only a few more weeks...

Thanks guys for all the support. 🙂

October 28, 2002
11:20 pm
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Squeezles
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Hi Beenthruthat -

I really feel for you...it makes you wonder what it will take for someone to 'get it', doesn't it? Anyone with any sense and self respect (and I mean your ex here!) would recognise how important it is for him to move out while divorce proceedings are occuring! Talk about making an already stressful situation 1000x worse! It is why they call it a 'separation' after all!

You did the right thing as far as getting your ex some psychological help. I hope that the info I provided to Alena on the other thread on suicide is of some use to you (assuming something similar happens again). Although, hopefully he is serious in not committing suicide in order to help protect your daughter. Your daughter is losing her family, the absolutely last thing she needs is to completely lose her father as well.

I'm somewhat curious as to why he thinks he will be 'happier' if you dropped the divorce because of his suicide attempts...I can't imagine it would do much for his self-esteem knowing that you are married to him because you don't want him to kill himself, not because you actually WANT to be with him. I'd rather be alone, than with someone that didn't love me or want to be with me. Maybe you could put that to him next time he does his 'I'm saved! Do you still wanna be married?' thing?

Keep strong! You're almost there! I'm thinking of you.

October 29, 2002
12:39 am
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Ladeska
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Beenthruthat.......DO NOT and I mean DO NOT fall for these ploys of his! This man is SUCH a CON ARTIST! And you don't need to be confused AT ALL. He is soooo blatant with what he is doing here. He's just playing any card he can find to keep from being responsible here and just end the marriage, pay child support and let you move on with your life. Some control over something is better than no control, I guess, at least in his screwed up mind. But, you aren't "in that mindset", so stop being foggy here, sis.

You know Exactly what you are looking at here, so stay focused and keep moving forward. I just let everything he says go in one ear and out the other one and you keep him to the task at hand which is what it takes to get free of this jerk.

I don't have to hear one more word about this man. I already know his profile and you don't need to question anything anymore except for the fact of how fast you can get away from him. I wouldn't trust this guy any further than I could throw him and I'd especially be careful with him around your child.

He's a complete and total narcissist and everything is - about him. I'd watch him like a hawk and be extremely proactive in your own behalf. He's not home with you now is he? If he is - I don't know your exact situation here, but I'd end that one way or another. There is no way in hell I'd live with this man, under no circumstances. He can woo the preacher, his doctors and the whole damned town - but you just need to laugh at them all and keep on trucking here. He's a christian, my ass. Excuse my french but he's as transparent as they come. And if they let him - I'm sure he'll con something out of the congregation before it's all over. It's almost comical, he's just predictable here. I think they have this on page 17 in the Con Man Handbook if I remember correctly...um paragraph 7....goes something like - if everything else fails - pretend to be Born Again and that way - they have to believe you and forgive you and wipe the slate clean and then while they aren't looking you you pound them into powder. Snap out of it GF and get moving - full steam ahead!

October 29, 2002
9:35 am
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beenthruthat
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Thanks Squeezles and Ladeska~

Oh yeah. Life is just chugging along...

He is STILL living in the house with me. And decided to quit the latest job too. (That makes 1 job fired from and 3 jobs quit this year.)

Ladeska, believe me, now that I know his strategy, all his talk sounds like "blah, blah, blah and blah..."

I see him going from one strategy to the next. Acting tough one minute to being a cry baby.

I can't kick him out until the divorce is final. If he shows any violent tendencies I am out of there. Right now he is turning a lot of that hostility onto himself. If he starts pointing outward, I'm outta that house! I ignore him as much as I can (drives him nuts - obviously!).

As far as suicide, I think he is mistaking his panic as thoughts of suicide. Suicide sounds more pitiful and dramatic. Either way, one the judge pounds that gavel, he's got to go live in his car or whatever. I don't know where he gets the idea he can just hang around for as long as he wants. I've told him he's gone once the divorce is final, and that I wouldn't secure the money for him to buy a new place until 30 days or so after the divorce.

Oh well, he just doesn't get it. And I don't care. He will either survive or not. But I know his basic nature is that of a predator. Even now, at his most anxious, his way of dealing with things is to find the right angle to get me to do what he wants me to do. It just falls on deaf ears.

I did want to keep my daughter's environment stable. Since he is being pretty good with her (and NOT left alone with her by the way), we can stay there until I feel he is a danger to us or he starts impacting her in more that the minor way she is currently impacted.

The psychologist hubby and I see actually specializes in child psychology, so if I need a consult I already know where to go.

Thanks guys. Either I am getting my strength back slowly or I am doing a good job of convincing myself.

Thank you for your good wishes. If any new drama hits, I'll let you know!

October 29, 2002
10:36 am
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tracylyn
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Hey Ladeska~

I think we've had this conversation once too. They all read the book, and yes yes, chapter 7, when all else fails...turn to God...that'll get her back for sure....PLEASE!!!!!!

Jenny~

I was beginning to wonder about you. I wasn't on at all on Friday and I guess I didn't notice you had written until today. Anyway, you sound like you know what do and how this is all going to pan out. Just stay safe, take every precaution you have to. I live with my ex after we seperated for a while, it was insane. I slept upstairs in our bedroom, he was down in the basement in a bedroom. I used to find every excuse to try and leave, I never wanted to be in that house when he was there. I know it's tough, I feel for you but I also know that you are strong and if this is just you being convincing.....then you are doing pretty good job of that too.

Be well.

October 29, 2002
11:33 am
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Ladeska
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Beenthruthat......You're doing well, doing well.......Got major faith in you and realize - you're wide awake here. (smile) Just makin' sure!!! (HUGS)

October 29, 2002
7:43 pm
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sosos
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None of them ever just "get it". I am still waiting for mine to sign the separartion agreement and each time I call he carries on and cries uncontrollably. I wish he'd just get angry with me and get it over with. He used to say it was all about me, but let me tell you that everything in our life was about him. He doesn't seem to care what his children are seeing, he cries to them also. He never grew up!!! And he likes it that way. For too long his problems and misery was the focus of all our lives. Now he can't get any more pity and sympathy. I'm proud that my children can see me strong, even after all he's put me through. And that's the way we need to be, Strong to make the right decisions FOR US. On a funny note, my son and his girlfriend are finding a place, and he will have nowhere to live as soon as I can get him out and the house up for sale. So my son said he could live with them, But he will have to live with HIS RULES, and none of the low life friends can be there!!! Talk about turning the tables. Guess any kind of mother figure will do. Of course, this is not what I want to see happen, but again it's out of my control. Take Care, Love Yourself, and make your decisions based on your needs!!!

November 2, 2002
7:20 am
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Squeezles
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Hey Beenthru...

Found this while looking at ehow.com (Yes, I know...the things we do when we're home alone for the night!). I know it's not the *best* source of info, but thought it might be of some interest to you. Note point 6 in particular.

S 🙂

***************
eHow to Get Possession of Your Home During Divorce
If you want to obtain possession of your home after your divorce, do not move out. Get your spouse to leave, if at all possible.

Steps:
1. Think about which parent your children will live with. It usually makes the most sense for the children to remain in the home.

2. Know that if you get custody, you have a better chance of getting the house. But don't ask for custody just because you want the house. The children should live with the parent who has the most time and best parenting skills.

3. Consider the mortgage payments. Will you and your ex-spouse be able to afford them after the divorce? The two of you are going to have the same total income you had before the divorce, but you will have to pay for a second residence.

4. Ask your spouse to move out as soon as you know you want to keep the house. You will have a better chance of being awarded the home if you are the only one living in it.

5. Do not move out yourself. It may be nearly unbearable to live in the same house with your soon-to-be ex, but if you leave, you're less likely to get possession.

6. Ask the court for a removal order, which will give you temporary possession of the home and force your spouse to move out while the case is heard. Removal orders are generally granted when there is danger of physical abuse.

7. Be prepared to prove to the court why you should get possession. Some good reasons are: you run a business out of the home and it would be a hardship to move the business, you have custody of your children, you have the ability to care for the home, you can make the mortgage payments.

Tips:
Be sure that you really want possession of the house. Are you able to handle repairs or hire people to do them?

Most courts will expect the person who keeps the house to bear at least some financial responsibility for it. Don't expect that your spouse will have to pay for it all.

If you do get possession of the house, change the locks immediately so that your spouse cannot enter without permission.

Consider mediation to help you and your spouse reach an agreement about the house and other issues.

November 2, 2002
11:27 am
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mossrose
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apply for an order of removal, Jenny. I sure as hell would. Get away from that guy, he is toxic to both of you.
Dont buy into anything he says any more, get cold and legal on his ass.

November 5, 2002
10:15 am
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beenthruthat
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Hi all--

I haven't posted lately since I have lots to think about. I hate to admit it, but I am being a little toxic to myself. I am battling with my own extreme anger and resentment. Typical codependant stuff, I guess.

Because I have been wallowing in my own anger, I think I have really shut down to listening to anyone about anything. More than is appropriate.

So, I'm working on my issues right now. As the next court date looms (November 13th), I find myself in a place I don't want to be. I am still living in the same house with him. I can only get a restraining order if he breaks something or hits me. I have already filed two, so I would probably move somewhere he can't find me if anything happens. I'm packed and ready to go at any moment.

I am having pretty severe headaches due to the stress, so I'm laying low for a few days. Plus, I am going on a brief business trip this afternoon which should give me a breather.

Just keeping you all posted. Once I investigate my position further I'll let you guys know.

Thanks for the support.

November 5, 2002
10:17 am
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Cici
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Stay strong, Jenny.

November 5, 2002
11:13 am
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tracylyn
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Jenny~

Thanks for letting us know. I've been thinking about you and wondering how you've been.

Hang in there, thru all of this just please take little moments for yourself to "escape" when you need too. Try to keep your sanity and hold onto that vision of what your life will be. This is just one of the many steps on that journey until one day you are truly and honestly free!!! On that day we will celebrate and you will smile and know that it was all worth it!!!

Be well my friend.

November 5, 2002
8:34 pm
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sosos
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Take Care of yourself... and use that brief business trip. Believe me, they have helped me on more than one occasion to spend some good time in thought. And through it all, even when you may not believe it, God is definitely guiding your way. Eventhough I am living apart from my spouse, each day I have to stop and get through "the moment" or the call, or the added problems and find something positive and beautiful to appreciate from that day, not the ugliness. He continues to sink deeper into depression and into believing he has no life anymore, and wants to die. I hate him for that because he's giving two children the rest of their lives to live with that horribleness. Be Well, sweetie.

November 7, 2002
9:36 am
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beenthruthat
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sosos~

I feel that your situation is very similar to mine. And now I find myself wondering how much of his problems are from depression and how much are related to deep seated anger.

He is on Welbutrin and Trazadone now and appears much calmer, less agitated and 'normal'.

But, I don't think I can go through episodes like those experienced recently without really harming myself.

My choices are not nearly as in focus as they were two weeks ago. I feel really bad for him, unless I'm totally P.O. at him. Really strange place to be. Do I kick his behind out on the curb or see what the medicines can do for him.

Mine is not an alcoholic or adulterer. An anger addict who has really slacked off on the verbal abuse.

I am confused now about how much of a change being on this medicine will make. Or if I'm just deluding myself.

Any thoughts?

November 7, 2002
11:22 am
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Cici
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I think about your situation a lot, beenthru, and I wonder about it. It's such a difficult situation. Have you considered going to group therapy for caretakers? I mean, basically your husband is mentally ill and you are his caretaker, and that takes its toll on you.

My Mom got a book called The 36 Hour Day, which was dealing with elderly people (as my Dad is 20+ years older than she is and he's 73 and she's like 51). But I noticed that she dealt with his situation a lot better after getting support about it. Now she actually has a friend (for the first time I can remember) - and the friend also has an elderly husband who she takes care of.

So, maybe you should put this whole "decide about the rest of my entire life" thing on hold and get to a place in your head where you feel more able to make a decision? There are support groups, either online or locally, for loved ones who are caretakes of mentally ill family members, I think. If you're interested I'd be more than happy to looks up info on the web for you.

THoughts?

November 7, 2002
11:50 am
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tracylyn
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Well put Cici.

Jenny, I don't think you have to make any long term decsions right now. Do what you have to to get thru each day. If the medication is controling his anger and suicidal thoughts then take this opportunity to relax and figure out what will be best for you and your beautiful daughter.

Be well and take care.

November 7, 2002
4:09 pm
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beenthruthat
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Thanks for the feedback Cici and Tracy.

Ugh. I went to the psychologist to discuss my conflicting feelings. It was a frank discussion. Why do I perpetuate these feelings within myself to fix him? He is a non-contributor to the family, is toxic and I don't need to be living with him. Why the guilt?

I am getting really drained from all the recent happenings and could use a break. Hmmm... lots to think about. No energy, but lots to think about.

So, tonight I'm just gonna chill and not do much of anything. Give me some ideas why I want to beat myself up and deal with this man-baby anymore. Cause I'm pretty clueless.

I'm so glad you guys are on this site. I wish Ladeska would give me some of her words of wisdom. 🙁

November 7, 2002
4:20 pm
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Cici
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Aw, hon, I'm sorry. Does she have your e-mail? She's kinda going through a hard time herself in her personal life so she's pretty drained right now. 🙁

Well, you're a mama. Mamas like to mama. It's tough, because if you're dealing with a man who isn't used to being an adult and thus accountable for his own actions, it's an uphill battle, constantly drawing boundaries and enforcing them. But, if you're consistent with your boundary setting, then eventually they peter out. Here, I'm posting a list of tips on how to set boundaries. (from about.com)

-------------------------------

Boundaries, Rights and Healthy Relationship

Setting boundaries means that we are taking responsibility, being adult and demanding equality and respect in relationship.

Setting boundaries reflects our right to say NO to those things that aren't right for us.

Setting boundaries is about learning to take care of ourselves, no matter what happens, where we go or who we're with.

Boundaries emerge from a deep sense of our personal rights; especially the right to be ourselves and take care of ourselves.

Boundaries emerge as we learn to value, trust and listen to ourselves.

Boundaries emerge from a belief that what we want, need, like and dislike is important.

Boundaries emerge from deep decisions about what we believe we deserve and don't deserve.

TIPS FOR SETTING BOUNDARIES

Anger, rage, complaining, whining, and feeling threatened, "suffocated" or victimized are clues to boundaries you need to set.

When you identify a need to set a boundary or a limit with someone, do it clearly, preferably without anger and in as few words as possible.

You cannot simultaneously set a limit with someone and take care of their feelings--they may be hurt, angry or disappointed with you.

You'll probably be ashamed and afraid when you set boundaries.

Be prepared to follow through by acting in congruence with the boundaries you set.

You'll be tested when you set boundaries.

Some people are happy to respect your boundaries.

A support system can be helpful as you strive to establish and enforce boundaries.

You'll set boundaries when you are ready and not a minute sooner.

There's a satisfying side to setting boundaries--it feels good.

EXAMPLES OF SETTING BOUNDARIES

"You don't have a right to tell me what to think, or invalidate my feelings."

"Don't vent your anger on me, I won't have it."

"This is mine, you don't have a right to use it as yours."

"I won't accept your belittling jokes, your criticism or your condescending attitude toward me."

"I won't be disrespected -- If you won't respect me, then stay away."

"Keep your hands off me."

"Stop doing that...or I'll leave; report you; file charges, (etc.)."

"Don't try to tell me what to do."

"If we're going to have a working relationship, I need honesty, respect & equality."

"I need to communicate when we have a misunderstanding."

"I need openness and sharing in a relationship -- your withholding is making our relationship not satisfying for me."

HOW TO MAINTAIN YOUR PERSONAL BOUNDARIES

Ask directly for what you want. This shows who you are to others.

Nurture yourself and your integrity. This creates an inner, intuitive sense that lets you know when a relationship has become hurtful abusive, or invasive.

Be objective about others' behavior toward you without getting caught in their drama.

Maintain a bottom line -- a limit to how many times you allow someone to say no, lie, disappoint, or betray you before you will admit the painful reality and move on.

Change the locus of trust from others to yourself. Don't put yourself in someone else's hands or expect unfallibility. Trust that you can allow others to be normally human and still have satisfying intimacy.

AFFIRMATIONS OF SOME BASIC RIGHTS

Nobody has the right to know my mind or my business or to tell me what to think, what to feel or what to do.

I have a right to my own thoughts, feelings, values and beliefs.

What I share with others about matters that concern me is determined by what feels right to me--not what they want.

If people are abusive or disrespectful to me, I have a right to tell them so, to ask them to stop and to avoid them.

I don't have to be nice to people who aren't nice to me.

I don't need abuse or to be disrespected.

I have a need and right to love myself, respect myself and to stand up for myself.

I always have a right to express what I feel and think for myself, as long as I don't try to tell others what's right for them.

I have a right to be who I am and to harmlessly live my own life regardless of whether others don't like it.

I don't have to feel guilty for not behaving as others might want me to or for not giving others what they expect from me.

I accept myself just as I am in the moment with whatever thoughts and feelings I have.

I accept my right to make mistakes--otherwise I couldn't learn and grow.

I accept my right to my imperfection and shortcomings and don't feel guilty for not being perfect.

I believe that no matter what, I am a divine child of God who is loved, forgiven, safe and destined to God's eternal life and blessings.

I believe that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us--to be treated with love and respect.

I believe that if I am true to myself and live by the highest truth I know, that things will turn out for the best in the long run.

November 7, 2002
4:38 pm
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beenthruthat
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Hi Cici~

I copied those affirmations. I appreciate you giving me that information. I just get unsure sometimes. I am better at boundary setting but I feel this is being pushed down my throat. And, of course, I'm not very happy about it. But then again, not as angry either.

I don't like getting that depressed feeling. It isn't like me and sucks out my energy.

Thank you for your thoughts. I'll check back soon.

Jenny

November 10, 2002
5:46 pm
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UK Polly
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I've got an anger addict too - he did anger management counselling but now he just presents his anger a different way . . . and I kinda feel that you shouldn't need to rely on him taking drugs so you can have a reasonable life.

November 12, 2002
7:01 pm
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tracylyn
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Hey Jenny,

How are you doing, hanging on I hope. You sounded so down on yourself in the above posts, they were a few days ago so I'm hoping you are feeling better.

I think you are only experiencing very human feelings. This is a man that you once loved, once gave your heart to, now you are faced with making a decision that you know will hurt him or have bad effects directly on him. You are human, you are bound to feel this way for someone who meant so much to you at one time. You have a heart. If you didn't feel some sort of sadness for what you have to do I'd think you were cold hearted....I don't think you've gotten there yet. You have to walk away from the father of your beautiful daughter...that is never easy. It's tough honey but there comes a time when you just become selfish as hell and take care of you. Turn all that caretaking to yourself and your daughter, someone who deserves your love and concern. Feel what you have to and don't get angry when you feel bad, work thru it, take lots of time for you, relax, smile and try to enjoy to good things that you do have going on in your life.

Be well and take care.

((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))

Tracy

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