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Is he REALLY Suicidal?
October 18, 2002
1:10 pm
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beenthruthat
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A few of you have been walking through the back woods here with me, and I am really getting distracted about my husband's latest actions.

I really think it is sad how he cannot understand himself. Yesterday, my husband had a 1:30 p.m. appointment with the psychologist and didn't get home until about 9:00. When he came home, he had obviously had a few beers (between 3 and 6 from how he was acting). He started telling me that if anything happened to him that it wasn't my fault. He just doesn't want to try anymore. Scaring the crap out of me.

He has hidden some sleeping pills and I asked him to give them to me last night. He said if he really wanted to kill himself he would and that he doesn't know where the pills are. I pursued it for a while to no avail. I am so upset.

All I need is to go home and find him home in bed dead. What would that do to my daughter? And, I couldn't help but feel guilty.

My quandry is this: I am unsure whether he is seriously going to kill himself or if he is trying to goad me into a better settlement for him. Has anyone had any experience with this when divorcing a verbal abuser?

I don't know whether I want to consult with the psychologist or not. He already told me it was a game. And that even if it wasn't that there was really nothing I could do. Only call 911 if I actively see him committing suicide. It sure is giving me a good case of gastritis.

So, I guess I just keep plugging forward. I'm trying to keep Mandy's routine steady and focusing on her a lot. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have my precious little girl!

I am just trying to figure out what I should do. If anyone can give me any suggestions it would be appreciated. Thanks all.

Concerning you, start making

October 18, 2002
1:45 pm
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Cici
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I'd say go ahead and call. I think it doesn't matter whether he's messing with you or joking around or whatever, suicide is a very serious thing. You just shouldn't play around with it. Even if you don't believe him, his suicide threats present a danger to himself and by law you have a right to report it.

Jenny, in my short life I've attempted suicide for real about 3 times. All three of the times I considered prior to trying, but I also didn't mention my plans to anyone and was kind of set on making it happen.

But - just err on the side of caution. Becuase you're right, you don't need the stress right now, so if you simply make the effort to do something now, even if he does go through with it you will know that you did all that you could.

October 18, 2002
3:23 pm
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Anonymous
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Wow...Beenthruthat. I would report it as a precautionary measure. I can relate somewhat to this, my mother is a verbal abuser among some other things and she had recently told me, that she was thinking of suicide cause of me, cause i will not have contact with her anymore, long story, but when i see statements such as these they really piss me off. Is he suggesting it would be your fault or do i have something mistaken here? if not, and if that is what he is implying, you really need to get away from, sounds dangerous. I wish I had some real insightful thoughts for you, i can send good thoughts your way and be here to listen, and you can always email me too, if you want to [email protected]

NightWind

October 18, 2002
5:56 pm
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syqg
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I think you should get you and your daughter out of the house. Not saying not to help him.....but you have a responsibility to your child.

October 18, 2002
7:01 pm
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sosos
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Yes, I've been thru that. Before I left my husband of 21 years, just 4 1/2 months ago, he came home drunk, high, whatever. My son left the house, my 12 yr old daughter was there. He took out a knife and went to the bathroom to "do it". My son called the cops from a friends, but we didn't know. So my daughter was crying for me to do something. I called 911, and police and ambulance arrived. Had to drag him in a violent struggle from the bathroom, undressed, and fighting. She saw all this, I think it was my last straw. Then a few weeks ago, one of our friends, who also went downhill, stayed at our home with him a few days, then killed himself. I guess they talked about doing it together. The next night, my son who chose to stay with him, and my son's girlfriend, found him in the garage with the car running. Called the cops who did nothing this time. He was ok, but my son is so lost. Yet, he won't leave to come with me. I talked to help hotline because his friends and my son thought I should do something. Well, after all I did, nothing changed him so why now? He did this while I was there. For me to go back and talk to him, or hold him as they suggested, would have really set him back with false hope. I think when someone decides they will do this, you won't know and won't be able to stop it. Like anything else, no one can control another person in any way. I just can pray for me kid's sake that he does not leave them this way. He doesn't know that I know, but he tells me always that he wants to end it all. I just tell him that he's not hurting me, hell, he's basically not hurting himself because he won't be around, but he's leaving two kids to live the rest of their entire lifetime with that pain and sadness and not understanding. I pray he's listening to that. I've told my kids that our friend led such a tragic life and could no longer help himself, so even if the way he went seems horrible, he is now in the care of God who was the only person that could help him. My friends mom did this and she had a hard time thinking this meant her mom was now in hell forever. But her priest told her that only those people that do it out of spite or revenge succumb to hell, but the troubled person who does it because they don't know any other way out is definitely in heaven. God Bless and Take Care.

October 18, 2002
8:19 pm
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Ladeska
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I don't like this AT ALL. He's definitely playing mindgames with you and is dangerous just in that - to you. I guess he'd like to have you abandon him.......then he'd have leverage legally. In some states if you just up and leave and take the child - I think it could be looked at like desertion. That's why it may be important that you get this documented and call the health department and speak to someone in mental health and ask what to do?

He's affecting your wellbeing with all this emotional wagging you around. And that's not okay for you or for your daughter. It's also not safe for you guys bec. someone who's threatening to do this - might just take everyone out with him and I think that's the way the court would look at it, too, which might play well for you in the divorce and rights to see her. But again, you need direction and to have it documented.

I'd go see a lawyer, too, just to get a consultation about all this. You can't just sit and spin here and let him tear you down a little very day. And I'd NEVER leave him alone with your child. Not in his state of mind. So, if he wants to go the route of psyhe games then you need to take that control right away from him.

See what your rights are. Remove any valuables, papers, etc. from the house and put them somewhere else, not in your car. At a trusted friends house maybe. Also maybe tape him sometime when he doesn't know he's being taped. It won't be admissable in court, but behind closed doors it may pull alot of weight. And it may be necessary for mental health professionals. Maybe get an appt. with a psychiatrist that you know is a good one and see what they say as far as what he's looking like and if necessary - forced entry into a hospital might be the answer here. You don't flirt with stuff like this, okay? I've seen this too many times. I grew up with a father who threatened it on a daily basis and almost killed me and my stepmother a few times over again in his pity party state. He finally shot himself, but it was by mistake. At any rate, it could of all been avoided if he had of gotten the treatment he needed or at the very least - remove him of his power and show him that - this isn't okay to play with people's lives this way. He's torturing you, breaking you down psychologically and probably laughing about it. So, cover your bases here and pull out any money that might be in a joint account that you can stash away for yourself and your daughter. Look at the big picture here and know that if things were to get bad you can call 911 and just leave the receiver down and they can hear what's going on, as long as he can't see the phone. You can say things like - you're not going to kill yourself are you? And they will have the information of where you live right on their screen and can come to your address.

Also remove any weapons that are in the house that you know of and maybe hide a few, like pepper spray, mace, something in every room where only you know where it's at in case things get bad and hostile. Have someone you trust call you at odd hours and just check on you and see if you're okay? And program into your house phone, cell phone - police no's, friend's no's for easy one button access.

This mindset is nothing to play around with and if for no other reason than the protection of your sanity and what this is doing to your child or could potentially do to your child. We think we know people, but the fact is - you don't know what all has made up their psychological profile. You don't have that information. You have what he has told you and what you have observed and can verify for yourself. Unfortunately, crafty people are very capable of hiding alot that you never knew about.

So be Pro-Active and get some things done here. Time to stop spinning and protect you and yours. He wants you to spin - so stop it now.

October 18, 2002
11:59 pm
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sosos
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Thank you so much, i think this was for me...but I'm out of there and living with my daughter elsewhere. Of course, my son is still there and that's my biggest concern. We lived in a small town where the prosecutor is pretty much aware of all of this. I just try really hard to keep my kids in focus, regular contact with my son, and prayers to my God. If I could only write a book about my life right now, it would be the most unbelievable chain of events in what was supposed to be a never ending love story. He is now emotionally drained and a wreck. Our conversations always end because he cries uncontrollably. And to know me, you would know how this kills me internally. But yet I know I did the right thing by leaving. Right for me, for my daughter, for our future. God, why can't he see this?

October 19, 2002
12:33 am
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mossrose
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As i said in my letter, yes this is breaking you down psychologically and you need to protect you and your daughter. I thought you had already called 911 if not, do so.
Its a pretty sad state of affairs but it could all be control and manipulation too but anyway, you really should get as many people involved in this situation as possible. This will take power from him and and off of you
God bless you jenny, im thinking of you and will be praying for you both.
Please dont keep any weapons around the house and try to have osmeone stay with you if possible. Do NOT leave him with your daughter.

October 19, 2002
7:25 am
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sosos
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Beenthruthat: The time with the knife, I called 911. In our state, it meant a 3-day police hold in the psych ward of the local hospital. There were also some charges the police placed on him, but of course after 3 very sad days, the police brought him from the hospital to court, we met with the prosecutor and dropped the charges. This happened in January and he still blames me for the whole situation. Like I didn't need to call the cops, he wasn't gonna really do it, etc. But it was Absolutely the right thing, especially with my daughter looking to me to do something. I'm really pissed that the next time, in the garage, when my son called, the cops did not even come. I know it was because of what happened in January, but I almost wanted to contact a lawyer because my son is under 18 and was alone with the situation and they just didn't come!!! Maybe I should sue the city and get me outta the financial mess this left me with! But call 911 if you are there when he says these things, because you don't know his state and my fear was he felt he could not have me, and eventhough he never said this, what if he wanted to kill me too?

October 19, 2002
12:34 pm
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Ladeska
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You know what SOSOS - I would try and make someone accountable for not coming to your house that night. I really would take that one all the way to the wall. Even if you don't win - make noise! That's just not okay for someone to play judge and jury like that. He could have killed himself and your son for crying outloud! I'm just not of the mindset that those in power are God and if we don't hold them accountable - they will fatally error again. I have taken many people in high places to task about things like this and yes - I got the wrath of hell aimed at me but you know what? I made a rumble and they heard it loud and clear.

Doing something like this isn't always about "winning" per say. It's about making noise for as long as you can make it. THAT in and of itself may have a chain reaction of change down the path that you will know nothing about and yet - will be effective nonetheless. If more people did this, pompous people in powerful positions would think twice about deciding who lives and dies. Their coffee break will wait. They are supposed to send someone to your house NO matter what!!! Period. End of discussion here.

And you my little sweetie, are doing and have been doing "the right thing". You just stay committed to your course and do not ever - waiver. One thing you can count on is that - what is destructive in this life, in whatever form - lacks the ability to stay vigilant and consistent. Evil has the characteristic of being inconsistent and using the ploys of charm and disguise and deflecting and conning in order to dissuade you from being vigilant and on the wall at all times, scanning the horizon and enforcing your boundaries around the clock. Predators go after what takes the least amount of quick spent energy to achieve the greatest gain. That's why God teaches us discipline, to be true warriors and to practice this discipline in every area of our life. It means to stand, to keep standing and to remain standing - no matter what.

October 19, 2002
2:31 pm
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Cici
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Hey guys,

In Florida we have something called "The Baker Act" - which allows a family member or healthcare professional to institutionalize an individual for up to 72 hours without their consent. This is only used in cases where evidence can be presented that the individual is a danger to themselves or others.

The Borg Queen (aka my Mom) has threatened to Baker Act me on a few occassions, but since she had no proof (no mention of plans for suicide, plans to hurt others) she couldn't do it.

After the 72 hours the individual is re-evaluated by a mental healthcare professional and if they are no longer dangerous they can be released - but if they are truely mentally unstable they will be treated appropriately.

Hope that this helps, Beenthru

October 21, 2002
10:46 am
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beenthruthat
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Hi All~

I haven't been on for a couple of days. I think it's pretty interesting that Cici discussed the Baker Act, and that's exactly what happened to my husband this weekend.

After a week of on and off talking about 'being tired, don't want to fight anymore, it's not your fault', he ended up overdosing on sleeping pills late Saturday. I am pretty sure he just wanted to get to sleep, since I found out later he hadn't slept in over 2 days. So, he took two pills, then another. This is Tamazepan (sp?) 30 mg. and he took 3 to 5 pills. Enough to make him really out of it. I was asleep and it wasn't until he knocked over the patio table outside and fell, laid there for a while (enough to be rained on). Then he crawled up the stairs, grabbed the baby gate on the top and fell 1/2 way down the stairs, then got me to help him to bed.

He wouldn't tell me where the rest of his pills were, but did tell me he took 3, or 4, or ???.

So, I called 911, the police and paramedics came out and took him to the ER. They later transferred him to a psychiatric hospital where he is now.

It's been a long, hard weekend. But my daughter slept through the entire thing. My friends helped out by watching her while I visited him at the ER and helped him get admitted to the psych facility.

With any luck this will be the help he has needed for a long while. And it looks like I will get full custody of my daughter due to the timing of this.

Of course, I don't know what I'm going to do once he's released. Unless I can get his parents to keep him for a while. Which is doubtful.

Otherwise, I'm at work and my daughter is in preschool - just trying to keep up her routine. She is a little upset but seems to be able to process things pretty well. I'm keeping steady for her. God grant me the strength to keep things on the right path.

Ladeska, I love your input! And sosos, I was hoping you would write on this thread, since your situation is so similar! I really appreciate you all giving me your feed back. It still amazes me how much this web site, and those who participate, have helped me keep my own thoughts straight. You guys are my sanity savers!

October 21, 2002
11:29 am
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Ladeska
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Wow! Right on time, too - for everyone concerned here. Now it's vitally important that he has a good doctor and that he doesn't just get spun around, medicated for awhile and then spat back out into your lap, probably worse for wear and ready to twist the whole thing around to being your fault.... So, whatever you can do to get a good doctor or to fill the one he has in on - the details of what he's been going through and pulling at home - would be rather vital at this point. This guy is unstable but does seem to have a bit of intelligence about him, too, as far as manipulation is concerned - which concerns me greatly here... As I have witnessed time and time again - even doctors are not always that good when it comes to some personas who can outfox the best. It's a game to them and one that the patient so often wins and then "you" get stuck with them all over again for another round.

I just want you to be real careful here, sweetheart. Meet with this doctor and feel him or her out and if it's not a good fit - then get another one. A few rounds of lithium or whatever - might be a temporary cure but not in the long haul here. And you need to prepare yourself for what you need to do for you and your daughter here. This guy isn't going to be okay for quite awhile here, if ever. He has some serious problems and deep rooted issues that they may or may not get to the root of while he's in there.

My mother ended up like this. Did her suicide thingie with me and my daughter in the house. Almost burned the house down around our ears and would have if my daughter hadn't been awake late that night and smelled smoke. My mom had enough alcohol in her for three people, along with other medications and a little note by the bed that said - Have a nice life and then her name. I think the fire was by accident, she hoped she would just overdose and that would be the end of it.

She got admitted to a psyche ward, too, for awhile. They have to do that if it was a suicide attempt. And while she was initially recovering in the hospital bef. she went to the ward - she said to me....I hope they don't blame YOU for this! I said WHAT???? And then she went into a long thing of how - she was just very concerned about the fact that we weren't getting along with my stepfather, who btw, was being a complete ass to my daughter since we had moved back there (and had to live with them for a few months unfortunately) but my daughter hadn't been around them since she was 7, so she remembered her step-grandfather in a whole different light and when he saw and my mother saw that - she was now grown - 17 and not into mindgames or cowtowing to their twisted game at every turn - they unleashed their nasty on her and it just about sent her over the edge! I had to take her to counseling bec. it just broke her heart and really messed up her mind. She just looked at me and said - Is THIS what you put up with when we lived here before???? I said - yes, but I thought after 9 years - some things had changed or at least they would be family to you, if not to me.... At any rate, same old story - no one changed, I just got conned back into the spiderweb of torture once again because I wanted some kind of family for my daughter. Well, THAT was a pipe dream. But I snapped out of it quick and my daughter made some hard and fast conclusions, too. The old spiderweb didn't work it's charm like it used to.

Needless to say my daughter had been raised differently than I was growing up and she has real stiff boundaries after a certain point. And she came to the wall real quick and said - that's it, I'm done here. She cut all ties to them and knowing her - they will stay cut, which really is the best for her and for me.. I have nothing to do with them either. And all this was at the beg. of the two years I stayed there around them...

My mom was in the ward for about a month and admitted she was an alcoholic, etc., and the whole nine yards, she charmed everyone, did the stint and then got out and went right back to her behavior. There was nothing mandatory about her checking in with anyone, etc. And even if she had of had that restriction, my mom is one sharp cookie when it comes to conning people. She would have been out in no time anyways. Of course she comes home and it's somehow all my fault as far as the rest of the family was concerned. Um, okay....

So, all I'm saying here is - back off and get a good perspective all the way around and do what's best for you and your daughter. He may be locked up now, but don't bet on it really doing all that much good except to give you time to do some things for yourself and some peace doing it.

I don't want to sound negative here regarding the mental profession, but it always depends on the doctor and what they can do, given how the patient works with them, too. Alot of variables here. But just wanted you to know my mom's story and realize that - she did a smiliar thing and was out in no time and didn't even have to go see a psych. for more than just a few sessions and nothing changed with her at all. She came out, just like she was. A little rested up and bent on doing the guilt trip with me and my daughter. Didn't fly though. I accepted none of that B.S. and helped my daughter not do it either. I am SOOO glad I raised her away from all that bec. she had a healthy mind and self esteem when she came back into it. She was able to keep from doing the "dance" with them and pull out of it emotionally and mentally and to this day - is just fine with her choices in not having anything to do with them. But, if a child is raised around all that for any length of time - they get sucked into things and become codependent and trained to respond to certain cues. I admire you for realizing this and for trying to shelter her as much as possible. It is extremely important.

Sorry to write so much here and hope that you get through this maze. Day by day - a step at a time, just stay focused and be pro-active for your own wellbeing and hers, okay?

October 21, 2002
11:56 am
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beenthruthat
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Hi Ladeska~

A lifetime of living in a skewed reality will more than likely never be overcome.

I just need to get him out of my life with the divorce. I was worried this would affect the proceedings but it doesn't look like it. Still working on a settlement.

Too bad he is so unstable. It would be nicer to work with a cooperative X2B. I don't expect medication to make him a new person. It doesn't matter anyway - this vampire has sucked out about all that he can.

It's time for me to move on... 🙂

Looking forward to being like mossrose!!!

October 21, 2002
2:19 pm
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Cici
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Wow how weird is that. I am glad that everything turned out ok, Jenny - I can only image how much stress and heartache andambivalence and confusing emotions you had to deal with.

I think you should meet with his treatment team and be honest, let them know that you are in the middle of a divorce/separation and that you're not sure if him being back with you would be healthiest - they usually make a good effort to put the patient in a therapeutically helpful environment, and part of his healing process should be learning to live on his own without you.

Be strong. Peace be with you....

October 21, 2002
9:18 pm
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Ladeska
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You're getting there, Jenny - you're getting there. Just keep on trucking and be that wise self I know you can be.

October 22, 2002
12:44 pm
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Jenny~

So sorry I wasn't around for all this, I would have responded no matter how blah I was feeling.

Be strong honey, I am thinking of you often. Be safe!!

Be well.

October 22, 2002
1:03 pm
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beenthruthat
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Tracylyn and all~

Like Cici says - how weird!

He got out of the psych. hospital yesterday. His psychiatrist is a total jerk and is treating him inappropriately, in my opinion. He really didn't need to come home.

Not only is he still crying a lot, but he's saying things like:
- He took the sleeping pills (thinking not enough to kill himself) to get my attention. Gee, did that backfire! I called 911 and off he goes to the psych ward. I'm sure that was not pleasant, to say the least!
- If I slept in the same bed with him he would probably sleep better, cuddling and stuff. Uh, don't think so! Oh yeah, I would just gladly hop in bed with him just to make sure he gets enough rest. Makes my skin crawl!

He is acting so absolutely needy - and still has hardly slept in 4 days. I couldn't wait to jump in the car and go to work today.

He talked half the night last night, wanting me to listen to his problems. Blah, blah, blah. I told him he sounded like he needed me to mommy him, and that is not my role. He just wants me to make our divorce go away. All I want is to have a normal life!

Now I know how he felt when he got to jump in his car and go visit a friend for a couple of weeks. I could certainly do without this incident. I feel very drained. How am I going to handle being in the same house with him for another 4 weeks or so?

He really is depressed, because I am not supporting him like he wants me to. After all, I'm supposed to give him EVERYTHING. He is very insecure just depending on himself within his own body. Without me he feels his world is falling apart. So, instead of him standing on his own two feet, he wants me to totally take care of him.

What a rollercoaster. I am doing okay but definitely wanting to get my own space here. In other words, this sucks...

October 23, 2002
6:05 am
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sosos
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Oh honey, we do have alot in common. The first time mine did the knife thing while we were still there was January. I wanted to leave then, but still struggled until May, probably because I knew "he needed me". FOR WHAT? To continue to take care of him and EVERYTHING else and make his life comfortable, never mind mine. Now he is an emotional mess. All kinds of bad stuff occurred just because I left him!!! That's why the DUI, then a second driving w/o a license, then loss of his 17yr job, health problems, his friend's suicide, the bills, BLAH BLAH BLAH. And he cries to me that He would have never done this to me. He cries to our kids so my daughter can't stand to go see him, and my son doesn't understand why I don't want to go back and make it all better. He needs to move out of the house because he can't afford it and I want it sold before we lose any equity. But he thinks I'll be back when I come to my senses! Oh yea, now that you have more legal and possible jail issues, NO job (maybe I could get a second or third job, right?), still drinking and who knows what else, I've heard heroin, Yeh Babe, now I really want to come back. I love my beautiful apt., it's 3 minutes from my job, and I have a landlord I could buzz and get any little thing fixed without having to nag for 3 years then pay a repairman, I don't know what my evenings hold but I do know what they DON'T hold--yelling, misery, adult caretaker, verbal/mental abuse, another expense because of drugs or traffic tickets or more of my things hocked, or listening to poor me, nobody loves me blah blah blah. Don't get me wrong, I know we fell in love and we were each others best friend, and he cries to me about this and starts calling me the little pet names, and sweet names he used to use, and it gets to me. But he called me whore also, and bitch, and others, and I didn't ever do one thing to deserve any of that. So GOD help me be strong. He said yesterday that I'm just not the person he married and he doesn't know who I've become. DUH! I've become a woman who is now taking care of herself first and making better healthier decisions, one of which is to end my marriage and not take care of him any longer. I guess I'm not the same person.

October 23, 2002
8:26 am
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beenthruthat
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Hi sosos~

Yeah, we really are living the textbook scenarios of verbal abuse. If you haven't read Patricia Evans "The Verbally Abusive Relationship", it's something to invest some time in. It was my dysfunctional marriage broken down into sections. It gave me some real insight on how HE perceives our relationship.

Isn't it strange how these two men have invested their entire self Worth on their wives? Sad really. It's like: if you go, the best part of them is dead, so why keep on living?

I am so glad that you are not physically with him anymore. I can't wait until I have the house to myself. And my little 4 year old doesn't understand what's going on. She has been very angry at her dad though. With your kids, it looks like your daughter can view things realistically. But your son, it seems like he learned way too much from his father. I would assume that your son has the same reality base that his father has. Certainly keep an eye on him. Maybe some counseling is in order. 17 is a bad enough age as it is without the conflicts he has experienced since you and his dad split up.

I feel for you, and can definitely relate! I believe you stayed in the relationship for 16 years? I started questioning things around year 5. The trigger was that he had increased stress. Maybe with yours also?

In any case, we are strong women and will make it through. Hang in there!

October 23, 2002
10:30 am
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tracylyn
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Jenny~

God what crap to have to go thru. Do you ever sit and wonder what you saw in him. I'm sure it was something wonderful but what happens to that. Where/when do things start go change and we open our eyes and go, HUH?

Ladeska and I had this conversation once about looking into the windows of other houses, wondering if there is a "normal" family in there. Weird eh?

Just please stay strong for yourself and your precious little one. Hopefully at 4 she is still young enough to recover early on from this torment he has put the two of you thru.

Is there any way you can leave the house until he is out. Anyway you could rent a furnited apt or extended stay hotel or something for your own sanity? I liked Sosos' comment about how she knows her evenings won't be spent dealing with this stuff. I look forward to the day you can do that too. To just enjoy life and relax and be truly happy.

Be well

(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))for you and your daughter.

October 23, 2002
11:05 am
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beenthruthat
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Hi Tracylyn~

Hey, I sent you an email and I did not get an error!

I have a place I could stay if I really need to, but right now it could be as little as 4 weeks until the divorce is final. Maybe as long as 8 weeks.

I am really staying in the house for my daughter to have some stability. I know that sounds strange, but changing her environment has a huge impact on her. I did move out last year about this time, and it was horrible. Plus, I cannot afford for the mortgage to be late because the same company is giving me a sweet deal on refinancing on my name only.

He is certainly weirding me out, but he has only hurt himself. No threats towards me or my daughter. He has been pretty good about hiding this stuff from our daughter too. He just likes to dump on me. If it gets too bad I have a bag already packed in the car and keys to my girlfriend's house.

Of course, I don't know what is worse than calling 911 for a suicide event. Maybe for domestic battery. But I think he has done a major shift from the pent up anger to extreme sadness. It's like he's losing his mommy, and you KNOW how traumatic that can be.

Considering window peeping with you and Ladeska: I've got to say, I have no idea what a normal family is! I am sure I would not be so sensitive to the mental manipulation if my sister had not beaten up on me and burdened me because of her undiagnosed schizophrenia. I guess a normal family is really up to an individual's interpretation. It would be interesting to see 'normal' in action!

And, believe me, I can't for the life of me figure out how the nice man I originally married turned into this pitiful excuse for a human being. I truly believe that this is his REAL nature which was just hidden for 5 years or so due to him being so happy. I would be too if someone treated me like a king! But, it's taught me a few good lessons. A lot about self esteem problems I have, and I've gotten so much better at setting boundaries! So, some growth for me through all the crap.

How did you divorce issues really occur? I guess I just want to commisurate, so don't respond if you feel uncomfortable. Does he still give you grief? Around the kids mostly?

Boy, I hate divorce. This is my 2nd one, but my other one was civil and mutual. This is a big nasty scene. Next time I don't do the marriage thing - if I ever consider getting another man in my life! Sorry, but living together has its advantages. I don't want to co-mingle with anyone again. Oh well, maybe I'll get some one to travel with for retirement!

JadeDragon, you're not missing a thing!

October 23, 2002
11:21 am
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sosos
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beenthruthat---guess what, it's not 16 years, it's 21 years!! And dating for 2 before that!!! Where was my mind? That was one of the biggest problems with not liking myself...I thought, was I that STUPID, I thought I was somewhat of an intelligent woman. What took me so long to like myself enough to get the hell out? Yeh, my daughter's counselor said she's gonna be alot better than her mom in relationships because she sets some pretty clear boundaries with him and isn't afraid to say so. I've tried to convince my son to go to counseling, but no success. He was always and continues to be my biggest concern, and now he has dropped out of school when this should be senior year. Where I arrived at today is in no way, shape or form what I thought when I fell in love with this man. And he questions what happened to us being soul mates, best friends, growing up together in our marriage....well, duh...he never grew up. I wish you luck and strength to get through your weeks ahead for you and your daughter...it will feel like an enormous weight has been lifted from you...and I truly believe mine was lifted by God who continues to lead me everyday and I take each as they come.

October 23, 2002
12:25 pm
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Hey Jenny - Sosos~

I dated mine for 5 years (started when I was 14) got married at 19, we were married for 13, seperated for almost 3 now and I filed for divorce one year ago next week. I just wrote that on another thread too.

I think that my husband and I got married so young (he was 21) that we just really grew apart and become different people that were not alike at all.

He controlled me, always did but I think at the time, being so young, I thought he was "taking care of me" and he always did. Anything that went wrong in my life he just took care of it and told me never to worry about anything. He controlled who my friends were and where I'd go and blah blah blah....

My parents never divorced, my mom was never independent or strong enough to do it so I guess I never had a good role model as to what marriage and love is about.

He was just very verbally abusive. He is a perfectionist. I was never good enough, house was never clean enough, I wasn't smart enough, skinny enough. He always teased me about my chest (or lack there of) and little digs like that. I could do nothing right in his eyes but all I tried to do was please him. Totally living my life according to his rules as to what a "wife" is.

He is very much about money and power and status, it's more important to him than anything. He dives into work and doesn't look up for anything or anyone. I was very much alone. If I tried to talk to him about anything he would quickly shut me up so he could work. I felt very, very alone. Many nights he wasn't home, always on the road, I'd panic if I didn't hear from him. Soooo, one night I couldn't get ahold of him, called several times, paged him.....I continued trying in the morning after not sleeping at all. I started calling all the hotels in Vegas that I knew he sayed in. Called one, asked for his room, they connected me and a girl answered. I asked for him by name and she said that he and Jenelle had just left. I asked who Jenelle was and she said "his girlfriend", she apparently thought I was the front desk calling. I explained to her who I was and we talked for about an hour, I found out that they had been seeing each other for a few months, that they met in California. She told me that her friend did not now that he was married or had children.

He is a flashy guy, sportcars, Rolex, anything to flaunt the money that he pretends to have. So, anyway, I imagine he threw this poor girl some flash and she got sucked into his web.

Meanwhile, this, within a year from my father passing. My ex blamed it on that, said that I wasn't there for him anymore and he had to turn to someone. All the while swearing he never slept with her...to this day still swears it. Ummmm, hotel room. in Vegas....come on....I might be blonde but I'm not that dumb!!!

We tried to work on things from there, I truly believed it was my fault and I did everything possible to bring him back to me. HUH, what was I thinking!!!!! We never really reconnected and he continued to always be gone.

I eventually turned to someone else too, started out as friendship, someone that would listen to me and laugh with me and just really appreciated and respected me and treated me like I had never been treated. My husband found out, moved out, moved back in, tried to work it out, told me he knew why, told me he would change, blah blah blah.........I woke up then......

I called the police for domestic violence that night, the night he found out. I knew that's what he would do if he found out. It got really ugly for a while. He'd lock me out, I'd call the police, he cut my phone lines, tapped my phone, broke into my new house and a lot of crap like that.....

Looking back I know now that I used the other man as strength to get out of this marriage that I had been so miserable in. I regret that people got hurt but I don't regret what happened...my therapist once told me that God might have brought him to me for that reason...to give me strength and if he passed thru my life for a short time to show me I deserve better then we can thank God for that.

I'm in a relationship now that is like a fairytale, I never knew it could feel like this....I look back now at the relationship that I had with my husband for half of my life and it was never love and respect and trust. It was two people living a very human life on the surface, there was nothing deep about what we had. I know now that he is not capable of more and he loved me the only way he knew how......sad.

It's very sad because he is loving his children that same way, controlling, verbally abusive, making them be "perfect". He tries to buy their love. He still tries to control me, as we've discussed before. He can't let go and stop doing it, that's how our relationship worked for so long. He didn't like to see me strong because then I wouldn't need him and he knew that. He kept me weak, he kept me needing him.

So anyway, I've made this really long. I am so much stronger and healthier than I was for so many years. When I read my first Codependency book I kept expected to turn the page and see a picture of myself because I felt it was written about me.....hey, were are my royalties.

Be well girls.

October 23, 2002
2:56 pm
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beenthruthat
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Hey Tracylyn and sosos~

Great story, Tracy! Your husband being a perfectionist, so is mine. Especially with the house needing to be neat and tidy ALL the time. He couldn't stand having toys around!

And sosos, you put in 23 years total and Tracylyn put in 18 years, not including separation time. I guess I'm lucky it was only 11 years for me - of course this is my 2nd marriage. When current hubby and I married I was 29. My first husband was a great manipulator but never was as abusive as this guy.

It is nice to see you guys on the other side of the fence - away from your abuser. I can sense the change in character that I will have once I am not sharing space with the X2B. Has something to do with FREEDOM!

Thanks for sharing your stories and inspiring me! I know I will eventually get lonely, but I also know I will really enjoy the feelings of relief for a good long time!

So, with all our divorces pending, we are on the road to a new life. Safe and pleasant journeys to you... 🙂

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