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I'm so upset about the 21 horses that have died here where I live
April 21, 2009
4:32 pm
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Healing.. and peace
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I know you will understand Horsefly, and Destiny, this is unbelievable!

There is a huge Polo stable here and Sunday three horses died suddenly after supposedly giving them B12 injections as pre-match meds... then they loaded up the rest of the horses and headed to the Polo fields, and all together 21 or 22 horses died. They were dropping like flys on the polo fields, and every vet in our area was trying to save them "Like in a scene from Mash" but they couldn't.

It's so all about status, and whom knows who in some of the sporting events with horses, and the money talks, there is no regulations as far as doping Polo horses like there is race horses, and show horses, so most likely when and if the test results come back nothing will be done to whomever injected these horses with some pre-race/pre-match drugs to enhance their preformance.

I personally don't believe for one second that it was a pre-race dose of Vit. B-12 maybe mixed in with some enhancing drugs.. but not just B-12. This is sick news, and the media is covering the story nationally but they are so far from really expressing what happened. Again money talks.

Of course CNN and other National news media coverage isn't mentioning the drugs and all, but common sense says it all... when you know anything at all about horses.... Locally they are trying to say it might have been bad feed, or hay, what a joke, if that was the case with the area being the third largest in the world in the Equine businesses, there would be horses dropping every where as pretty much we all get the same feed and hay from the same feed companies.

This makes me sick, and for those of you that don't know too much about horses, this is unheard of unless there is some strange strain of virus going around which again, other barns/stables/facility's would be effected to at least a couple.

April 21, 2009
4:49 pm
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RobynB
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Yeah, it certainly wasn't just B12; we regularly use B12 on the show horses to relax their muscles, plus, it is a vitamin, not a steriod.

If it was blister beetles in the hay, I would think it would take 8-12 hours at least.

This is just like with Big Brown; he was America's hero, the greatest horse ever... and then loses the Belmont after being off his Winstrol for a month... well, duh, it's a steriod!

I had a gelding get serum hepatitus from a bad flu/rhino shot once and a horse died, but it wasn't the same kind of deal... you just can't walk around injecting these horses with crazy stuff...

April 21, 2009
4:51 pm
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RobynB
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And to add to that, the "regulations" for race and show horses are VERY loose.

There are a lot of things out there that fly under the radar.

If you ever want to read a great book about drugging horses, it's called "The Monday Horses" and it's all about a girl's journey into showing hunter/jumper ponies and reveals all the drugs and problems in the industry. The irony is that it was written in 1970's... nothing has changed!

April 21, 2009
4:54 pm
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Robyn,

Your so right, I also had a foal that died from the west nile vacine, but this in nothing like that as you stated... this is one stable and just happened to me all the horses that were going to be in the US open.. no other horses in our area, or in their stable got sick... Common horse sense we know what happened.. B12 doesn't cause sudden death in 21 horses.. and if it was the hay or feed other horses in our area would also have been effected, and if not other stables in their own stable.

April 21, 2009
4:56 pm
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Robyn,

Oh yeah, I know nothing really has changed.. when I was a teenager I remember working at a race track in order to make enough money to care for my first show horse, and the things I saw, I will never forget.

The thing is your right the regulations are loose, but there are at least some, where as there are none with the Polo horses, because no money is exchanged.. like race horses, and show horses... it's all pretty sick, I just had to vent.

Thanks Healing and Peace

April 21, 2009
5:09 pm
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soofoo
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Oh my goodness. I know practically nothing about horses. But I have much respect for them. That is just so terribly sad.

April 22, 2009
8:59 pm
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Healing, I know how much you love horses. The whole thing is a tragedy. I am sure that they must know by now what killed those horses please let me know.

How are those minis doing? Can they live in a house. If so how do you toilet train one.

My pony is at my friends house until I can set up a corral for her. I miss her so. But she is having fun living in a place with 2 geldings. I still dunno if she is pregnant or not. If she is she will have the baby in October. Is there any way she would look pregnant now? My friend doesnt think so.

My rescue pit bull is doing better. Very energetic but extremly obedient. She has her own room.

Pony Power,

Destinystar

April 23, 2009
9:49 am
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Destiny,

The whole investigation is still ongoing, it seems that they may have gotten illegal supplements in which they are trying to blame the deaths on.. but I truly feel it wasn't the supplements as they would like the public to believe.. They are legal in Europe but not in the US, and they are supposed to be given after racing or a match in this case, not before so a lot of what they are saying even if they were legal here just doesn't add up.... plus even if they did give this illegal supplement, a normal dose would not have killed them... unless it was tainted with something, or a bad batch.. which again doesn't make too much sense since they were given prior to the match... you know what I'm saying.

The mini's are all great, I've heard of people keeping mini's in their homes, I personally wouldn't but I have read that some people have. As far as house breaking them, not sure if that is possible.. It is natural for them not to want to go indoors because it is not their outside enviroment but I if they were in all the time there would be no way for them to not go to the bathroom inside.

So glad your rescue pup is doing better, they are such cute dogs, I can't believe how many of them are at shelters and stuff now... I went there the other day to drop off some feed as a donation, and our local shelter had 19 pits and only three other breeds there.

Keep me posted on how your new baby is, as far as the pony I think your just going to have to wait and see... you can tell sometimes by the shape of their belly but that's really not until the last couple of months if they are pregnant, and even then sometimes without test and all you may not be able to know for sure.

Healing and Peace

April 23, 2009
10:22 am
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Healing- Usually when a pit finds its way into a shelter it usually doesnt find its way out. Here if one has kids they cant take a pit. They are born and bred to fight other dogs and cant take one home if you have one of them either.

This pit is no exception, growls and kids and dogs and trys to go after them. I bought her a muzzle and she promptly pulled the thing off and tore it up.

She is very difficult to house break. She has her own room and doesnt do it in there.

From what I have learned about the breed it would be a good one to ban. I feel like if I am not careful with mine it is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Good thing we live remote and my only 2 neighbors have a fence. I hate to think if she got out and they were outside with their little kids.

When I get my pony back I will look at her. I hope she isnt pregnant. Trying to find a pipe corral to put up for her. I miss her. My son was riding her a lot. She has a nice, calm disposition.

I am sure they will figure out what killed the horses. People just using those polo ponies like they were tools. Makes me sad. I dont believe in all of those supplements. The most awesome, perfect horse I ever owned was a wild mustang brought in from the BLM. All they live on is what nature provides. She had perfect conformation, dense bone, hard black hooves, thick mane and tail. Impossible to handle. Whenever the hay gets bailed and stored it picks up debris, gets exposed to moisture, rats, etc. I am surprised more horses dont get sick. I am one to pick up a small amount of feed right after it gets bailed as opposed to large amounts and storing it. The rats were making nests in my Bermuda.

April 23, 2009
12:06 pm
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Destiny,

Your so right about the horses! They would have been better off if man didn't step in, but it happened. I kind of think with the Polo ponies everything will pretty much be hushed up because the owner is best buddies with Hugo Chevez, and the money is endless. However, this may open the eyes that something has to be done about doping horses, I mean all of them from show horses, race horses, polo, etc. It is cruel to the animals, no matter how it is looked at.

I'm glad to hear your being careful with the pit, I think if a person gets them very young and raises them in a kind way, with love, they can be wonderful pets, but without knowing the backround of them people are taking a risk having them in their homes and or around children especially, they could actually be considered a deadly weapon in some cases. I'm pretty sure in Miami they have been banned, meaning no one is allowed to have them... but that doesn't stop them from getting them anyway and like you said, fighting them and doing whatever they want to with them. Here is Wellington if you don't carry million dollars of Liability on your HOI you can't have a pit bull.

Will talk to you soon, Peace and Healing

April 23, 2009
1:10 pm
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Healing and Peace- I agree with any decision to ban pit bulls. The folks are trying to find ways to generate revenue, the need to make it mandatory to have a license to breed, to spay all dogs before they are sold and to force owners to spay and neutor or fine them. Enough is enough. For me owning a pit is like owning a fire arm. I only take her out late at night or before the sun comes up when no one is out. I also agree if you get a pup and socialize it there is a good chance.

The woman I got this pit from had a pole right next to the cage she kept the dog in and some letters from her man who owned the place who was locked up in state prison. I asked her about the pole and she explained to me she was a pole dancer. The dogs stomach was all raw. She said it was from a fight she got into with the male pit. It was obvious that they encouraged agression.

But, this dog will keep us safe. If someone breaks in forget about the gun. She is a wonderful protector.

The horse world is like the gambling world a mans world. As long as there is money to be made nothing will get done about it. IMHO.

I remember I rode over to the safari grounds on my pony and had some cops roll up in land rovers and told me I was trespassing. (Yes I have a past LOL).

April 23, 2009
2:04 pm
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lollipop3
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Hi Ladies,

I have been reading this thread because I too was saddened by the death of all of those horses and wonder what may have cause it. But in reading I saw a comment by Destiny that I felt compelled to respond to....

" I agree with any decision to ban pit bulls."

Unfortunately the media has done such a good job of falsely vilifying this poor breed that you are not alone in agreeing to ban an entire species of dog. However, having been a professional dog groomer for many years, I can assure you that they are not the demons they are made out to be.

In nearly 10 years of grooming, I had NEVER encountered one mean pitbull. Not one.

Where I am from, the law requires all pits to be muzzled when out in public and I cannot tell you how heartbreaking it was for me, time and time again, taking the muzzle off of those dogs only to have the poor thing lick me to death....relieved to have the muzzle off.

I live in the city and therefore came into contact with many pitbulls in my career and as I mentioned above, I had never had one show any aggression....ever.

I cannot say the same however, for cocker spaniels or lhasa apso's. Personally, I would choose a pit over either of those breeds...especially if I had children.

And for the record...the only dog in ten years that sent me to the hospital was a chihuahua/dachshund mix. Little bastard. It really was my own fault though :o)

Anyway....you don't have to agree. I just felt it necessary to add my professional experience and opinon. I feel so strongly about this issue, I even did a paper on it for school.

And many times when you hear on the news that a "pitbull" attacks someone....it's not even a pitbull. I've seen it before on my own local news where on one occation it was a Neopolitan Mastiff and another occation where it was an American Bulldog. But what do the news people care....American Bulldogs don't make a good story....Pitbulls do.
And when that poor woman was killed in San Francisco a few years back, the inital report there was that they were pitbulls as well. I had a HUGE arguement about that with someone at the time because they were not pits...they were Presa Canarios.

Sigh....

Anyway....that's my story and and I'm sticking to it. Take it for what it worth 🙂

April 23, 2009
2:10 pm
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I read the update about what killed the horses. IMHO nothing replaces, giving horses the typical diet of hay, grass, salt, etc. Then providing exercise and rest. Whatever it is it should be in line with a horses natural design. Why in the hell would anyone want to use them as a pawn in a game by making them run and bend, and exhausted. A vet knows better and is more interested in making a profit than caring for an animal. I have owned horses my whole life. That is why I own acerage so the one I own doesnt stand in a small enclosure and can run and exercise. I only ride her for pleasure in a hackamore (no bit). She exercises to tolerance. Isnt made to do things that a horse in the wild wouldnt do. As far as the supplement world goes it is unregulated for the most part. It is unnatural to give a horse anything concentrated it usually has no benefit, is a waste of money and can make them down right sick. Just because something is natural doesnt mean it is good for you, that it should be ingested much less ingested in a concentrated form.

I had some ponies living on my land cause the owner was a collector and couldnt take care of them. So I trained them for free, Had the vet out who said they were fine. Gave them low protein forage, salt and water. My vet is an advocate for not over feeding. Well, when I gave them back to the original owner, she had a fit. Said they should have more weight on them. Gave them carrots, some kind of supplement, all kinds of crap. The next thing you know one comes down with colic. She already had a 20,000 vet bill from another colic case and one of the ponies had a crested neck. None of my ponies have ever been sick, lame, foundered or colic. A lot of ponies problems come from rich diets. Like people they will live longer lean and exercised. thats just MHO.

Are you riding now?

April 23, 2009
2:43 pm
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Oh no! Destinystar, I have to respectfully disagree!

Some supplements are very important to performance horses used in sports. My show gelding recieves extra selenium and a joint supplement to help keep him from experiencing muscle soreness and other problems. I agree that the polo ponies can and should recieve LEGAL vitamins and supplements. Clearly, the staff at Frank's Pharmacy incorrectly mixed the vitamins in question. Here is the full update.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/.....index.html

Now, with that being said, both my "pasture ornament" mare and show gelding both recieve proper clean timothy hay, grain, and all the clean water they'll drink. (And actually the "pasture ornament" recieves pro-biotics for digestional issues as well, plus MSM for arthritis in the summer when I actually get a chance to ride her).

I did want to ask you a question, however, about your bitless hackamore. Is is a mechanical hackamore or a sidepull/bosal type? Because a mechanical hack is actually one of the most severe bits in existence due to shank length and poll pressure. A gentle smooth snaffle is a better option, depending on the horse. A sidepull/bosal, however, does not operate in quite the same manner; it relies more on nose pressure and chin pressure.

April 23, 2009
2:45 pm
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RobynB
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Oh, just added: I just reread your post and noticed it was "pony" specific. I agree that ponies need very little extra supplements and a rich diet is a bad plan.

I was thinking more along the lines of my 16hh quarter horses!

April 23, 2009
3:29 pm
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RobynB- I knew there was I reason why I liked you. My pony must have smelled your quarter horse on you lol.

Oh I admit I dont know a damn thing abut horses. Really. I dont show, breed, jump, or race. My specialty was getting weanlings, doing ground training, breaking them. I am one of the only adults I know of that rides them. I am on the small side. My girl is 12.3 hands. Perfect size.

My riding abilities are limited to the basic gaits.

Heck, I cannot get my girl to canter in an arena. When I kick her to go faster, or turn her head into the rail and kick with the inside leg she gets pissed and bucks a little, or hops. I get exhausted trying to make her do this. She will run outside on the straightway with my son on her.

Since I am into the pony thing exclusivly I have learned to not feed them anything rich in protein, not to over feed them or they will get founder, crested necks, laminitis, colic, etc.

I work my pony lightly. I have been giving her bermuda. Cause it takes her a long time to eat it. She gets salt block and water with that. I think my friend gives a feeding of alfalfa or 80/20 pellets where she is at.

The bit has a nose band which is a chain covered in leather. On the sides is a hinge with a short shank that connects to reins. We direct rein her cause I havent spent enough time teaching her to neck reign.

About the snaffle. She fights having a bit put in. She was extremly head shy when I got her. I had to get her over it by holding out food in one hand that she wouldnt get til the other hand touched her head. The last owner was hitting her in the head. A meth addict that would scream and yell at the kids, horses, and her husband all day. I have gotten her to take a curb bit, just cause it doesnt collapse like a snaffle when I try to get it in. I thought that my son who is a novice might hurt her if he rode with a bit. Hmmm. It is extremly difficult to find anything that fits her. They just dont make pony stuff.

16.1 that is huge.Too much power for me.

I dont know if you know but Peace here has a mini ranch so she gives pony a whole new meaning.

We used to have the OK corral thread. The topic here is kind of Sad. So I will start another one and us Equine folks can have a place to go. I am all about pet therapy.

April 23, 2009
4:42 pm
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I am so glad to see Francks is owning up to they're huge mistake. Still doesn't change the way I feel about giving horses suppliments that have not been approved in the US, but I do believe in supplements.

I still don't understand giving Biodly prior to a match though, even if it was legal here in the US? It is used for muscles and exhaustion so why would they have given it prior to a big Polo Match?

I have given B-12 to my jumpers prior to a show like 24 hours prior but that's it, because it is so hot here, and it is just good for them sometimes.

I also know that the owner has more money then anyone could imagine and I can't help but to wonder if he may have paid off Francks to take the fall. I know this most likely isn't the case, but just seems like it is a clear possiblity. Another thing, all the toxolgy reports have not come back yet, so we may even see more then just supplements to blame.

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