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I'M ANGRY
January 13, 2005
8:31 am
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Juanita
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I am angry.

Angry with my spouse for the hurtful things he has said and suggested in the past.

Angry with my male friend for being a tease and his on-again/off-again response system.

Angry at my shame of the situation.

Angry for feeling I have no one to trust and open up to.

Angry I have let myself down and allowed my self-esteem to drop so low.

Angry I keep procrastinating, letting the wheels spin deeper and deeper.

Angry I allow someone to tell me my life is not "so bad" and then I doubt myself and my depression issues all over again.

My husband wants me to "experiment" sexually with other men. Now, 9/10ths of my sex drive is gone.

My male friend, who was flirtatious and made me feel like a woman, wasn't interested in more than friendship.

I exercise and never lose weight.

I suck, I suck, I suck for allowing all this crap to happen and not finding the courage and strength to fix it permanently. I am tired of this.

I am tired of people telling me not to make such a big deal of what my husband wants. They are not me & don't know how I feel. My thoughts richocet.... what's the answer? Anti-depressants? don't want to be on drugs the rest of my days, that won't improve the situation. Counseling? Last time they told me to "let it go and move on" - trying to figure out how to do that when the home situation keeps arising. Leave? Keep debating... we can't afford two households, don't want to disrupt the kids' lives. Do I hate my spouse? No, but I don't madly love him anymore either.

One friend told me - Lucky You! You can have the best of both worlds! You have a spouse who has given you permission to fool around with others. Think of the adventures you can have!

Um... who the Hell would want me? Let's face it. I thought one was interested, and he wasn't. Even more devastating.

Not wanted solely anywhere, except by my kids.

Vent, vent, vent.

January 13, 2005
9:18 am
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I'm sorry that you are so angry and so sad Juanita. I would be very hurt if my husband wanted me to have sex with other men because to me that would cheapen what our relationship means to each other. I can feel how hurt and alone you feel. Your last counselor was a big jerk and the things that he was telling you were not right. My suggestion is to find another counselor - preferably a woman and take care of yourself in all of this.

You deserve happiness and peace of mind so do whatever you need to for support and to build your self-esteem. You are worth it! - TS

January 13, 2005
9:55 am
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Juanita
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I feel so messed up and angry and upset with myself, you cannot imagine. So worthless because the man I adored cheaped me, and the man I now want, doesn't want me.

I am so screwed up and feel no ONE understands.

Go figure - let me be the one to have this problem and no one be in the same boat.

Other people who need help and support find others with the same problems who can relate, which is great.... don't get me wrong.

It seems I have found no one to relate. People tell me its just a matter of adjusting MY perspective.

Why is it always the "victim" who has to adjust???

January 13, 2005
2:00 pm
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eve
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>>>My husband wants me to "experiment" sexually with other men. Now, 9/10ths of my sex drive is gone. < << Yuck. I can relate to the big turn off if your guy wants to persuade you to do sexual things that you don't want, especially if it involves other people. My ex and I met with a couple we were friends with one evening, when all of them started to get into a foursome. It turned out that the other three had talked about this before, just hadn't thought it necessary to ask my opinion about it. I managed to avoid it, and drag him into our bedroom alone, but our relationship went sharply downhill from there. >>> My male friend, who was flirtatious and made me feel like a woman, wasn't interested in more than friendship. < << Bugger, but maybe you can keep him as a friend? >>> I exercise and never lose weight. < << At least you DO exercise. I stopped my training six weeks before chrismas and promplty gained four pound. Yesterday was the first day I wend again and now im riddled by sore muscles. Do you have any girlfriends that you can hang out with and complain about your men - it does help, even if it doesn't change anything.

January 13, 2005
2:07 pm
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on my way
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How can you survive and live in a situation that totally contradicts who you are, how you feel, what you want, what you expect without some help to see it through? This is wrong, Juanita. Disrupting the kid's lives? Their lives will be disrupted if your marriage is disrupted. Gosh, such pain in all of this! If your husband cannot understand or appreciate how you feel, what choices do you have? Personally, if counseling did not help, and you have tried to talk, and nothing is working, I would leave him, and get a divorce. This really seems to be a bad situation for you. Don't lose yourself in it.

January 13, 2005
2:08 pm
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I would not want to be married to a man who wants me to have sex with other men. Something is seriously wrong with him. You can't have a healthy intimacy with him. You deserve better. You deserve a man that wants committment. If you leave your husband that will solve a lot of your problems and then you can work on loosing weight. But when you have so much anger and are living in a very unhealthy situation it is hard to focus on loosing weight because you don't feel very good about your self. Think about all of the benifits of living a new life where you can start off fresh without your sick husband.

January 13, 2005
2:21 pm
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SweetAmanda
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(((((Juanita)))))

You have every right to be LIVID! How dare that man ask you to do something like that?

Will you leave him do you think?

I do know one thing for sure: Yes, you are heartbroken right now, but once things settle I know that you will find someone to love who loves you in return. And it will be real love. It will be good for you.

You are a sweet lady. You said kind words to me and stuck up for me on here when I had never even 'spoken' to you before. I know that you must be of sterling character!

My Prayers,
~Amanda~

January 13, 2005
2:23 pm
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Oh, one more thing...

Hold on to that anger as long as you need it!

It will keep you going when nothing else will.

January 13, 2005
4:11 pm
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Oh Juanita: That is so awful. Your husband is showing he doesn't respect you or value you. Most men are somewhat possessive of their wives (and should be), not wanting their wives to have sex w/ other men. I would feel so abandoned. I can't imagine how painful that is. Once again it is the difference between men and women w/ sex and the emotions it brings. I don't blame you for not having much of a sex drive after this. The trust and intimacy is gone. I don't think I could stay in a situation like that. My thoughts are with you. SD

January 13, 2005
4:23 pm
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Juanita,

I felt the same way you did re: prescriptions and therapy. I thought only 'crazies' were on anti-depressants, and went to therapy. I saw it work for other people, but wasn't going to pay someone $ for problems I should be able to work out myself.

Juanita, please give yourself a break. Anti-depressants aren't forever. I am on them now, and did not realize how 'low' I had sunk. I can concentrate at work again, I have periods of time where I am personable, etc. I still cry and grieve but the times are far and fewer between now. Eventually I'll get off the pills. But I am sure without them, I would have done something I'd eventually regret.

I really really REALLY lucked out wiht my therapist. After one session, I really like him and he gave me great advice to take with me until I see him again. Please, please try to find another counselor. Mine is a man (I was uncomfortable with this at first but needed the Sat. appointments). I am so glad I'm doing this, and I hope you can find one whom you like as well. Between the pills and the therapy, I believe you (and I) will be able to make better decisions about what is good for us. Please give it a try!

January 13, 2005
11:33 pm
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Juanita
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Thank you, everyone, for your responses. Sometimes I get so down I feel overwhelmed and just have to vent or I will explode. Keep doing the "it's not so bad, but I still feel like it is...." loop. I keep examining every aspect from multiple angles over and over. Basically get no where fast.

Will I leave him? We've been married a long time, not something easily considered, but considered. The answer is no,though, not at this point. I think I will need to investigate and try counseling again - him too perhaps, if he'll go this time. Need to at least give this avenue a try once more. If things don't stop or change, then the answer would be leaning towards the 'probably' side because I don't think I can keep up with this stuff. I am (or considered myself to be) (ironic isn't it?) a one-man woman. Which that in itself is sadly funny because I have a man, and want another? Never ever imagined myself like this. So totally used to adore my spouse, this is just bizarre to me. I think I should also mention, I have NEVER been with another man EVER. My spouse is the only one. I am sad to feel my man is not making me happy, and longing for whatever is missing or shortcoming.

I went into a down spin lately b/c he made mention of something he'd like that I cannot and will not provide. Makes me miss my male friend and his conversations even more.

I was talking with a couple of girlfriends tonite (after a couple glasses of wine), and realize just how much I miss the conversations with my friend. An emotional affair? Well, I guess you could say that because I looked forward to talking with him so much. Would that qualify? Probably, or at least, by my definition I think it was that.

Gentlemen, if you are reading this - remember - the best way to sweet talk your woman into the bed for some good loving is thru good conversation and listening!!

I am in a better spot right now, thank you much for all your input and caring. It did help (so did the wine - I don't usually drink). I need it every now and again to assure myself I am not crazy for resisting certain ideas.

Emotionally? Yes, heartbreak is a word I would have used to describe my emotions. You see I have been 'dealing' with this for over a year plus. The first emotion was incredible hurt to the point of ache. I blamed myself for not being good enough. Most of the time recently, I would have used the word 'numb' to everything - like I stopped most of my emotions all together. I gave up hobbies I liked and just wasn't finding joy in most anything - and now getting to the point of allowing anger to appear. From what I've been told, these are classic signs of depression. Lovely.

Perhaps I will try the anti-depressant route again. Just have to get there in my own sweet time I guess. Have been debating it a while.

Seems like therapy and medication may be a combo coming back into my life as I got off them the first time too soon. I just can't seem to get past the fact he knows whats hurts, and persists to occassionally mention it. If he'd have accepted my answer the first time, I wouldn't be like this. It is the hurt and knowledge that how I feel isn't making a big enough difference.

Thank you all once again. Just the venting helps.

January 14, 2005
12:33 am
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on my way
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How I felt did not make a differnce either...I eventually lost myself, gave up, and I am a fighter. I was beat down by the fact that I lived in a marriage, chose someone who did not see my needs as important. I was challenged at every turn, what I expected and wanted was not important. I lost myself. By the time I developed enough strength to leave, I did not know who I was or waht I wanted, I only know I wanted out. I cannot tell you the peace I felt the first night I was away from him and knew I did not have to go back. It was a year 1/2 before I could file for a divorce, but I did it, I will never regret it, my ownly regret is that I stayed TOO long. Too long for me, too long for my sons.
If you feel you are losing yourself, if yuo are becoming weak, and drained on all counts, if you are depressed, if you find yourself medicating yourself to cope, when in a better situation you know you would not, if you are compromising yourself on a daily basis, then get out, leave. My story...I recognize your feelings, and I advise you to pick yourself up, be true to yourself, take care your children and go.

January 15, 2005
10:52 pm
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Juanita
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Tonight, some of my anger came out. I have been so tense for so long & my spouse has noticed. An innocent event triggered a reaction and ensueing conversation (if you can call it that).

While at work, a customer whom I know a little better than the others, came in. This man is comparable in age to me, slightly older, and has over the past shared some of his medical woes due to an injury at work which has resulted in continueing seisures. This man, much to my surprise has shown his appreciation for not only my time, but my co-workers as well, via giving hugs. (Let me tell you, that's not something I normally do.) To speed things up, he just got out of the hospital again & is in rough shape. He again gave a hug as he was leaving. He was swaying as he left & I was afraid he would collapse, so I walked him to his car (where his Mom was waiting to drive him home). After getting home, he called to say thank you to me for my care in making sure he got out to the car ok.

I was nervous to share this with my spouse, but I did. My spouse noticed my apprehension in talking about this innocent event and asked why. I told him I was nervous what he would say (or encourage). I explained I am very defensive when it comes to even DANCING around the subject of other men and displays of affection, no matter how innocent. How I fear I am not enough to keep him happy AS I AM. (Of course, imagine trying to have this discussion with children running around the house and calling for my help for this or that at any given moment.) When I was helping one of the kids, my spouse slipped quietly upstairs. When supper was ready, I went up to find him very quiet and sad in our room.

We haven't had a chance yet to continue our conversation as company arrived for supper.

This is part of the reason I hate to bring things up to him of how much I hurt. It makes him sad. I hate making him sad & thusly absorb everything into myself. However, I believe I've come to the point I can't absorb any more without cleaning out some of the old.

I hate hurting anyone, or making them sad. I'd rather take it on all myself and remain silent.

January 21, 2005
3:44 pm
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baby D
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juanita

you should not care what others think about you and don't worry about that guy if you ever see him aging then you can worry about it then.

January 21, 2005
3:53 pm
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so Juanita, is your hubby the "jealous" type??? you were doing a good thing for your coworker, and you have nothing to feel bad about...and if your hubby went upstairs and was sad, you still should not feel bad for telling him what happened, without also worrying about how your hubby's reactions will be. Juanita, have you tried talking with your hubby as to why he gets sad when you mention say "men" friends??? He may just have his own inner issues and insecurities.

I hope you are feeling ok now. Keep me posted....camer

January 21, 2005
4:08 pm
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Juanita-

You are a good person. Don't let anyone make you feel different.

January 21, 2005
5:18 pm
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I think everyone has good and bad in them. My partner is also the very jealous type - despite him not wanting to be a real part of my life and meetin my friends who hoave always been very important to me.

One thing I have learnt is that its not YOURSELF who makes another sad but more to do with the fact that person is ready to MAKE you feel bad about it - yet this is not possible because it is only HIM that has created those feelings withing HIMSELF so it is HE that must deal with them.

I am trying to learn not to be responsible for the way my partner feels when he's jealous, angry, upset, blaming, fearful or hateful (to mention a few!) - especially when I have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about - it is sadly his problem at the end of the day.

Good luck with believing in yourself.

January 21, 2005
5:51 pm
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shyshy
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Juanita, isn't your husband the one that wanted you to experiment sexually with other men and says hurtful things? And your afraid of hurting his feelings? I don't get it.

January 22, 2005
1:43 am
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Juanita,

Pulled up this thread because the title, well, kinda SHOUTED at me.

You have every single right to be angry and then some - for many reasons. But, first and foremost because well, when people get married it is generally because they love each other and they want to make a committment. Now, religion aside, part of that committment, even if you are not religious is that you will be faithful to each other and only with each other. That is why if you are with another it is called infedility. Which when you think about it is what your husband is asking/wanting you to do.

I don't care what kind of spin he or the crack-pot therapist puts on it - that is what it is. Again, I will come right out and say that I blatently disagree with what the therapist said to you - about "you are so hot, your husband wants to share you." Bullshit, and then some - that is some weird way of trying to justify the fact that your husband is wanting you to be with another man.

Think about it this way - and maybe this is MY perspective, but, this is how I view sex. First of all, for me to have sex there has to be intimacy. Now, I will admit that there has been a time in my life where yes, I was in a "relationship" where there was not a great deal of intimacy, and there was a great deal of sex. This was after my first husband died and it was something I guess that I needed/wanted at the time. No entanglements and for the time it worked for me. But, for me - in order to be with someone sexually, there has to be intimacy. Why?

Well, because ultimately, for a woman you are literally opening your body for someone else to enter, to become a part of you. For me, that is not a decision that I take lightly. Again, not being judgemental, I know there are lots of folks - men and women alike that can have "just sex" - but I'm not one of them, and I gather that you aren't either.

When I took the vows of marriage, I promised my husband that no other man would enter my body willingly - that is part of the marriage contract.

We have talked about this before on the other thread that we had running for so long. But, think about this - um, you are not wanting to disrupt your childrens lives, and supposedly neither is your husband - so where exactly are your children supposed to be when these interludes take place?

What about the fact that another child could result from one of these little events? Not to mention the possibility of disease. How are you supposed to explain that to your children? Or if that should happen, is your husband willing to do the explaining?

You said before that he brought this up once in the midst of being intimacy? And... he is wondering why nine tenths of your sexual desire is gone? If it was me - he would have found himself nekkie on the front lawn with nothing but the yellow pages turned to the "A's" for divorce attorneys.

Now for your friend. Somehow, I think he felt he was only being a friend to you. Some men (lots of them actually) generally flirt somewhat without thinking - and I'm sorry that you took it the wrong way. I'm sorry that your husband took it upon himself that he should encourage you to think of him as anything other than a friend; and again, I have to wonder if part of the reason he backed off from the friendship at some point was because maybe, just maybe your husband actually brought up the idea of being with you to him. Have you thought of that?

Personally? At this point, I would make some decisions, and stick to the hard line. Tell your husband "you are going to marriage counseling or that's it." You said something before about how he would not sleep on the couch - it is HIS house, well guess what? It's YOUR house too, and as it's your house too, you have every right to demand respect. You deserve so much more than what you are getting, don't sell yourself short.

Z.

January 22, 2005
5:50 pm
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Juanita
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thank you all for your posts - yes, mine is the one who wanted me to 'experiment'. He was sad because I was reluctant to share an innocent event for worry of what he'd make of it. He was sad that I felt this way, and he was sad because he felt nothing he says is right anymore. I've told him; can't talk about S, can't 'tease' or talk about THAT... (my story has been an on-going muck for about a year now)

And, what that man told me exactly was "if you should ever doubt that you are loved, know that you are loved by me." This man is an insured of mine, he suffers seizures from having been electrocuted, and meant he loves me in a religious, loves-everyone, way. (I had helped him to his ride fearing he could collapse he looked so bad.) In the past I would have thought nothing of sharing this compliment he paid me with my spouse, but after all that's been said .... well, I was hesitant, but I am not used to 'hiding' things either. Confusing, I know.... but time to fast forward.

šŸ™‚ You found me Z... (((hug)))

Since posting this thread, my husband initiated some talks which, in itself - his taking the initiative, was good for me.

He has told me that he loves me (which he always says, but this time he REALLY stressed it), that he does not want to share me with anyone, he does not want me to have an affair, he is sorry that I was hurt, but from his stand-point he was just verbalizing a "typical male fantasy" and letting me know how much he unconditionally loves me that if I wanted 'experiment', then I could. He is not sorry for wanting to give me permission to enjoy flirtations and fantasize...

Mind you, this was only part of the original issue of lack of attention and his being a work-a-holic. He has greatly increased the amount of time he spends with the kids and I. He is trying very hard on all fronts to do what's right, and give me what I need.

Part of my torment is that I allowed myself to weaken to it all. To be TEMPTED, and thru all that went on mentally and emotionally for me, that I actually became enamoured with another man and really, truly, became to WANT him. My spouse thought it was cool and exciting for me to actually notice other men, whereas before, I had blinders on, completely happy with the one I had. (Ignorance is bliss they say.) Now, from my spouses point of view, he said he wanted to know that I could move on if something should ever happen to him... he didn't want me to be lonely. It just felt sooo good for another man to flirt with me when my spouse had so little time back then. I felt vital and alive. I hate it that I weakened. Get mad at myself too for being so delusional to think it was more than just flirtation.

I think though, finally, after this year long battle things are starting to settle down.

My hubby said he emphatically loves me, unconditionally loves me, doesn't want to share, or LOSE me... He realizes it came close to that. How damaged I became. (took him a while to realize this)

It is just me now. The adoration I used to feel is gone, perhaps time will bring that back. I miss that feeling that "no one is as great as MY guy..". My self-worth is bruised to have gone thru all this for so long, and felt this way for so long (undesirable). My self-worth also suffers from the loss of a friend, the realization too, that he wasn't much of a friend for not sticking around and being helpful, supportive or truthful when I needed help. He instead sent mixed signals, which lead me to believe he was interested in more than just friendship.... which, I don't know whether I am proud or shamed to admit, I confronted him on (via email) to which he did not reply. Guess I am proud to end my confusion and torment in the long run. (though secretly I think he is a coward for not facing off and having a truthful conversation to save a friendship - but oh well - the friendship must not have meant that much to him.)

I tend to hold myself to high standards of quality when it comes to family and friendship. Thusly, I hope that the family and friends I have, have the same morals. If I would walk thru glass for a friend, I tend to hope they'd do it for me. Sadly, I have found out thru past experiences this is not the way it is. Bitterly sadly, is that my own spouse put me emotionally thru this mill... not listening when I told him what I needed or didn't want.

But thru the mill I have been, I survived, & am now on the otherside, hopefully beyond the circling tide pool that kept me re-visiting certain issues.

He doesn't want to share me,
he finds me desirable, and
he loves me unconditionally...
He said it on his own without my prompting.

I am hoping that with time and reassurance by actions that the adoration will return, but time will tell on that.

I wish I had never had to go thru this ... but they say all clouds have a silver lining ....

I did gain a valueable girl-friend thru all this. She listens to my woes, gives input, and doesn't beat me up too bad for being in this 'place' so long. I look forward to hearing from her on the phone and when we write back & forth. It's nice to have her around.

So, here's hoping for the future that all will be well, and history won't repeat itself!

I hope I never have to post a FRUSTRATED thread here again (no offense to anyone - everyone is great. šŸ™‚ I am tired of complaining & want to move on)

thank you all,

J
J

January 22, 2005
6:02 pm
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SUSIE BABY
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am i missing something here? what i read say's to me you were just being kind to this person who needed help. this made your partner SAD. good for you that you realize this is HIS issue! not to be able to come home and talk about your day is sad.keep being the good hearted person you are, we could use alot more like you!! keep the faith,susan

January 25, 2005
8:27 am
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Juanita
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Dear Susie ~

To me, this has been a whole big messy roller coaster of an "affair". I really don't want to type it all again (sorry) as it's been done a few times. Very basics are:

my husband had no time for me

my spouse gave me permission to "explore" and actually encouraged it (greatly) with a "friend"

I was hurt, and became very enamoured with my flirtatious friend.

Got all confused and lost

Am now finally working thru the worst of it all and hope to never visit this Hell again as it nearly broke me in two.

Sorry my friend - that's the briefest, cleanest recap I've ever done. If you are greatly curious, check out an FYI thread on the other side.

I just did not want you to think I ignored your response.

J

January 25, 2005
10:44 pm
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hi juanita, all i can say is be true to yourself.you cant fix him. this is his problem not yours. you must decide if your spouse has the potential to change and does he really want to. good luck and remember be true to yourself!

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