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I think I am finally getting it now....
March 24, 2003
10:22 pm
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Anonymous
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HI-
I am new to this board and I had a deep issue to deal with and to be quite honest i got alot of help from everyone.I know it may seem hard sometimes I lost my dad a couple of months back and I am truly having a rough time but anyway, If I did know you I would give you a real big hug because we all need one.And issues will be there until you get rid if them or work them out and that is what this great board is for.Take advantage of this great site and eliminate on issue at a time .Im a survivor,Im not gone give up .

March 24, 2003
11:06 pm
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mj: Thanks for your kindness.... Maybe someday I can get back to feeling enough on the positive end of life to hug you back. Right now I can't stand anyone to touch me...and this is not personal....

kirty: I have learned that there are times/situations when you cannot get rid of issues nor can you work them out. They become a part of who you are and they color everything in your life, whether you like it or not. In this instance, there is only acceptance...and accommodation to the limitations that this may present.

For me, this is mostly a stormy process...from inside...but every now and then there are pockets of blue sky. The acceptance slowly is coming.

My biggest source of depression just lately, though, has been this war we are in.... The lack of sleep and sick-to-my-stomach feeling that I have about it all doesn't help the other areas of my life. Our babies are out there getting their butts shot at...and there is nothing I can do about it. When I see the POW photos and the pictures of dead bodies, I see kids only a little older than my own child...and I ache for them and their mothers. I see dead bodies all the time in my "other job"...and I am not a mortician or a mass murderer, either! The bodies in the photos tear at my core.

I find that I have lost the sense of future I used to have...and I just don't care.

I have to force myself to get out of bed...and work or finish projects...which I have...with toothpicks propping my eyes open. Yes, I got the damn paper I have been working on forever...finished. Now for another one. I don't even feel the joy of it. I even question why I am doing any of it anymore...but I still do it just to keep going.

Accepting the things you cannot change can be a real bummer sometimes...and that is truly the entire theme of this thread for me....

People can explain away my grief with analyses about play-acting and self-pity if they want...I can't control that, either.

One thing I have noticed about psychology is that it can certainly be used as a tool for explaining away someone's annoying characteristics without any intention of really caring about them. "They" get to explain their problem with your behavior based on their assumptions about you...so they can write you off, vent their frustration, and justify their lack of compassion for you to themselves.

March 25, 2003
10:11 pm
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Hi Scherza,
I am glad that you are still talking here 🙂

I don't feel comfortable hugging everyone in my life. Maybe I should quit giving hugs here too 🙂

I just feel compassion at times and no words come except Hug.

Hope that you are ok today.

March 27, 2003
12:03 pm
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hi Scerza,

I'm still thinking about you and this problem. I guess we need to be vulnerable to make progress. I don't really know if we can somehow get a hold on "how bad" it will be, if we fail.

Yet some of what you write seems like you're digging the hole you're in deeper and deeper - could be that it is "just" depression? This condition of our mind that tends to aggravate everything it can get a hold of? This doesn't sound hopeful, but it could be, because depression is something that could be separated from the other issue, even if this is very difficult.

And I wish you a good weekend. I'll be off to Italy to help build a catamaran. Maybe I'll even be able to visit Venice in the evening. The deal is I'll get two days of free sailing in summer - if the thing won't sink due to my "help"

March 27, 2003
1:08 pm
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Depression can also be treated. Have you met with a doctor recently, just for a physical checkup? Sure, problems don't go away when we are physically healthy, but they sure are much easier to deal with, feel more manageable. Just a thought.

November 9, 2004
9:31 am
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scherza -

YES. The need of children to feel loved and special and cared about - just as they are - is a valid need. Unconditional love - just for being that someone's child - is a beautiful thing. And yes. Every child deserves to feel special and loved.

I believe only children are really able to love unconditionally - as parents often burden their children with hidden expectations (their secret 'blueprint') of who or what they should be or become.

I know how it feels when in childhood (some or all of) those basic needs get unmet. If one - or both - parents or other significant care-takers are (were) not available, ungiving or physically absent when you needed them the most. As a child growing up and feeling dependent and vulnerable. And later on - as a grown-up - still craving for - and grieving for - the supposed love you've never had and never will have. For whatever reason. Because they didn't care. Cause you didn't matter. Your feelings, wants or needs didn't matter. Or not enough to fulfill them in such a way that would have made you feel lovable and acknowledged as the special human being you deeply, truly and really are. How it wounds your spirit. The hurt. The anger.

How it sometimes makes you (wanna) howl to the moon (symbolizing the unreachable, ungiving and unavailable 'Other') - like a wolf.

If you suffered abuse and molestation as a child - I believe you actually (re-)live and often testify of your personal history of (hidden) trauma - a trauma so profound it must evidently and of necessity tear down and wreck the very fundament, 'raw material' or fibers of your spirit or soul - tearing it up by the roots - thus creating spiritual, physical and emotional wounds that - even years later or in adulthood - are still eating away at all the things - the fabric - you feel your 'core' being or sense of self to be composed of. Like a sneaking and toxic acid slowly poisoning your essence. A violation of a person's (unique sources or 'potential' of - what I like to call) 'human-ness'.

The problem though is - and I am quoting Ladeska here - "if we're not real careful, self-aware and have some real courage - we will start having a little problem that basically is about - us thinking that because we have suffered all this abuse and this very UNFAIR pain and torture - that now - whatever comes our way and triggers us - can unleash this anger in us and if we explode on someone, or really knife them like we were gutted - then it's kinda owed to us - and think - well you deserve this and I don't have to apologize or sincerely really.....be sorry or want to change anything because I'm "entitled" to all this because of the past... and it's not that necessary that we try and not do that or really own what we did because.........but until we are really ready to take off the mask that says - it's okay if I hurt people, it's okay if I do this and that now and then because - after all - look at all the unjust hell I went through as a child - I'm ENTITLED to go off a little bit.... Until we really glare at that one in the face for what it is and see.....how tricky that switch is and how easily it can just trip over to the other side of US actually being abusive ourselves......until we really do that and hold our own nose in it - we will hurt ourselves and other people.......and that little one - will never grow up inside us and will continue to act immature socially and interpersonally" (- end of quote). Are you prepared to go there and look - some - "ugliness" in the face here ?

I will tell you exactly what it is that I see.

What I see is - an attitude problem; WHO do YOU think you are to treat people posting on this board as you have done in his thread ? Do you really consider yourself THAT superior or SO superior ? Do you really think you're all THAT different ? To be so full of yourself to think you're having the right to dismiss of people posting here - by discarding their insights and supportive comments - in the way you do - just like THAT - with a mere snap of your finger ?

You even get them - at least some of the people posting here - to apologize for whatever harm it is YOU let them think they 'done' to you while in my view - it is actually YOU who should apologize to most or all of the posters on this thread. Why ?

By noy valuing them. By being disrespectful to them. By not seeing them for who they are and what they are giving you - high quality 'input'. By not GIVING credit where credit is due (Naty, Eve, MJ, TS, Nikka, Becca, SC, Molly, Gingerleigh, Kirty & little girl - did I leave someone out ? ) - for them even being willing and wanting to stand beside you - reaching out to you - holding your hand - and gazing into that deep and dark pit you've dug for yourself - together with you - not abandoning you - while at the same time continuing to validate and support you. For making them feel they've failed upon you. By not honouring them in their efforts to add a sense of meaning and purpose to your life, to the quality of your - primarily intellectualized or rationalized - existence and to all of the suffering - the hurt and/or pain - that you proclaim goes on inside it. Sure - I can see that you've neatly written down that you're grateful and glad they've 'heard' you - but your actions - the content of your postings - tell a different story. That BS-attitude of you is pissing me off.

I see someone who is merely and - only - PLAYING or ACTING OUT her (ego?) 'DEFENSE' (out of 'self-indulgence'? or what?) - your 'assumptions' ? - with everyone posting on this thread - for no other reason than to "use" them as a means to confirm what you secretly or unconsciously seem to have told yourself - or persuaded yourself into believing - that whole bunch of false beliefs that (a) your are indeed not lovable, inadequate and do not deserve to get whatever it is you want or need in life. Fine - that's all that you deserve anyway, isn't it ? And (b) that you indeed are here in this world to do it ALL alone. So - in your line of reasoning - everything is and always will be hopeless to start with. A lost cause. There's no 'easy' way out here. You must give up those ego defenses to "find the vital and precious core of yourself" like I've heard another poster - I am not sure who it was ? - say some time ago on another thread. But his words certainly have the 'swing' or 'beat' I am looking for here.

I see someone PROJECTING a core-felt 'deficiency' ('unmet or unfulfilled need') on her surroundings - probably everyone around you including posters here - confirming you somehow in your belief that you cannot have what you wanted or needed when your were a helpless and dependent child (and as a grown-up?). The Dream of a mother you've come to idealize. Some glossy magazine image or picture. It's the cover-story about the hand of a needy child that reaches out yet never gets filled. In fact - there can never ever be someone who qualifies to fulfill or make up for that deficiency or want you still have - so what your'e doing now is - you're setting yourself up for disappointment - to feel or get dissappointed - time after time. With different people - like therapists, collegues, partners - as the ones always selling you short. But - in fact - it is YOU selling yourself short here - cause you are the person who is doing the abandoning here and now. You're ABANDONING you - evoking inner feelings of sadness, aloneness and meaninglessness. You're failing on you. It is you who is (re-)creating this 'drama'. Again and again. You're being the victimizer here. No one else but you. You'll definitely have one major loss to grieve about. The loss of you. The grief over a 'core' self that was never given a chance to develop, blossom and properly feed you. Mostly - as an adult - by your own doing.

So by all means - keep on 'fueling' your own vicious cycle like a dog trying to bite its own tail. Dig yourself in a little deeper. And I am not - like the other ladies here - going to help you dig. I strongly feel that you don't even derserve it too.

Keep on surviving ('coping with Reality in a dysfunctional way') - like you have always done - keep hiding your own 'true' self - PRESUMABLY a pattern of behavior ensuing from your own self-loathing and self-contempt. Tough job I guess, and a life-long process at that too - giving up all the feelings of resentment you have of yourself.

It's not about accepting the things you cannot change - someone who failed to give you something you may think you're ENTITLED TO like a loving and caring parent - its about YOU not accepting the things you CAN change - for one, the notion that YOU can change - that you're the one in the power seat here all along - to MAKE yourself feel whole and loved and satisfied from deep inside - the question is - are you willing to tear down this building of grand illusions you've erected for yourself (academic achievements) - serving no other purpose BUT to conceal your uncertainties, fears, self-rejecting and self-demeaning beliefs you have about yourself? How about getting accepted in YOUR world? How about learning to accept your OWN imperfections ?

Your loss CAN be your gain - if you 'only' allow it

You must be familiar - as a researcher - with the definition of a 'SELF-FULFILLING' prophecy. Cause it looks like you are JUST THAT. You reap what you sow. You get out what you put in. You're exactly creating for yourself the very conditions ENABLING you to conjure up that old and - by now hopefully - more than dead rabbit out of your hat : an external justification ('reasons') for rejecting yourself and that rejection - either by yourself or by others especially older women - is all you deserve anyhow. Until you decide to stop playing that worn out 'mental tape' of feeling inadequate, unlovable and deprived BECAUSE you were abandoned - and as a consequence felt rejected - in childhood. Stop
catering to that 'need' for proof of that inner voice inside of you telling you :"see ? - ALL mature women are LIKE MUMMY and can't be trusted (= unsafe). So you (look for a reason to) abandon - or reject - them like in that example of this female research fellow with her adoptive child - before they can abandon (reject) you. Avoiding having or not having to deal with the issue either. I think this could arise out of fear. You may be afraid of that mature female researcher 'over-powering' you. Making yourself feel powerless and helpless - again - like in childhood. And you cannot afford yourself to let that happen. To lose control. Otherwise your "defense" - your outward "facade" (mask) - so carefully built - may crumble or crack. But - underneath - it is already falling apart - slowly but surely - and now that you're older - you'll have to face a new challenge - you'll want to be looking for other ways of presenting and manifesting yourself than before - as an integrated and 'whole' (not 'prostituting') - self. Cause your old ways of relating to the outside world - especially towards mature, older women - do not suffice or are not gratifying anymore. They taught you how to survive yet deny who you truly are - a vulnerable human being with - at her core - a deep need to be loved and accepted. To feel complete. Your (shame-based?) self-denial could be the very thing causing you to feel the most hurt. This - in turn - triggering feelings of depression ("I find that I have lost the sense of future I used to have...and I just don't care") - even feelings of despair and hopelessness ? - and the depression is functional in that it covers up (like a blanket) the existential 'crisis' - the issues of your 'core' identity - you're slipping into and that is lying underneath. Depression can be perceived as a signal indicating you're tired of fighting - mostly against yourself.

No connections imply no dependencies. And (re-)connecting - either to your 'core' self or to some people (females) around you - and consequently feeling loved and accepted by them - requires an ability and willingness to give in and surrender to this need for dependency we all have up to a certain point. A true and skillful 'warrior' masters the art of finding and maintaining the delicate balance between these two - the need for autonomy ("to be seen as different and unique") and the need for dependency ("to be seen as vulnerable in wanting to be and feel loved and accepted"). You may consider practising this 'martial art' out of a sheer relief you've found some kind of 'safety net' - something accommodating your original and true nature. And it doesn't even require submitting to the mercy of a God you do not believe in.

So how about (re-)directing your feelings of rage or anger ("your history or story of pain")at yourself for a change - naming and claiming it - as a 'reward' or 'pay-off' for all those years that you've successfully managed to let yourself down?

Show us just HOW hard you can be on yourself.

Well - I'd love to challenge you to do it ALL alone. You're getting exactly what you were aiming for all along here (and perhaps everywhere else): to end up doing it ALL alone. So go out there and BE that 'tough' person now - go on acting tough again and again - and LIVE it. Dare living up to ..... yourself. Until you die. You really don't have a choice here, DO you ?

What are you waiting for ? Go on - be(come) the professed 'LOSER' you've always - deep inside - known yourself to be. That should provide you with the 'instant' acceptance and recognition you've been looking for. Because - contrary to your faulty? assumptions - people DO know (how to recognize) the difference between the shadow and the substance (genuineness). It's in their blood. Too bad, huh ?

SOOOOOOO - how does THAT work for you - or - serve - you ??????

You're welcome.

ps:

🙂 I suppose you must be amply AWARE of your anger issues by now !

November 9, 2004
9:47 am
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Hi [email protected],
I don't mean to be a dunderhead but I'm lost. What is this post pertaining to. If you could direct me to a post that would give me somne clue I'd appreciate it. It appears that you put a lot of time, effort, thought and energy into this post but I'm not following the progression of events. Or if I'm not suppose to stick my nose into this please tell me and I'll vacate.
Thanks

-Cactus

November 9, 2004
9:55 am
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SweetAmanda
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Hiya Cactus,

Click on 'view all posts' at the top left-hand corner of your screen. =) I hope things are going well with you, I don't think I ever got the chance to 'meet' you! ~Amanda~

I am going to go back now and read over this entire thread...

November 9, 2004
10:07 am
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Cactus
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Hey SA,
Now I'm really confused how did a thread lapse 1 year and 8 mos with no response. How did this pop up again?
I'm gonna leave this one alone.

SA,
I started a thread "Good morning Starry, Christine, Camer Sunny, Art Angel Kathygy and anyone else" If you're inclined please post.

-Cactus

November 9, 2004
11:13 am
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[email protected],
Your name is so familiar....why is that?

I am really impressed with your expression. Glad you pulled up this thread. When I first came to this site, I learned so much. Thank you for reminding me of all the wonderful contributions that our fellow travelers shared. Glad you are here.

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