Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
I think I am finally getting it now....
March 13, 2003
5:57 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

another early morning and i sit here bathing myself in your pain and your ability and in the deep feeling you bring to whatever you do, scherza.

thank you for all of those things. there are abandonments and there are abandonments. as you know, i have had my own. my mother who couldn't seem to deal with the fact of my growing into a woman -- hatred? jealousy? definitely anger and belittling and a consignment to hell. and, as you also know, my reactions, lasting into my thirties, adandonment of the responsibility of my own girls and the endless and torturing search for love through sex. -- so, instead of having my mom consign me to hell, i placed myself there. many, many years and much pain to discover what was available to be discovered before i was eighteen: that i was responsible to find a way to allow my gifts to bloom. i didn't require acceptance and deep love from mom. but i was unable to see that and my backlash nearly killed me -- more than once.

i salute your abandonment of your search. it is a brave and difficult thing to change ones tape in mid-life. but you are also right in thinking that the sorrow and pain must be let out. perhaps a therapist would be the avenue, perhaps not. there are many in that profession who are so caught in their own difficulties and working them out that they might be unable to assist you in dealing with your own. in the final analysis, your pain and your loss are going to be yours to deal with alone, in any case. the best a therapist will ever be able to do is mirror and provide a 'secure' place for your own reactions to take place: much like a chemical catalyst doesn't participate in a reaction, but merely provides a congenial environment for the reaction to occur. if you are expecting a 'healer' then your search is always likely to be vain, unless you understand that you are the 'healer.'

o, my dear sister, in our previous talks perhaps i haven't said this, but in order for the pain to come out of our hearts we must open them more widely than we think we are able to do. the natural reaction to heart-pain is to close the heart to 'protect' it. my experience tells me that an open heart is the path to 'healing.' with an open heart the pain flows through, doesn't lie within and cause the heart to ache.

twelve years ago my own mother passed and over the last two years of her life what little memory she had of herself and others went away as well. sitting with her in the nursing home and talking to her during that time i realized one afternoon that she no longer knew me. a few weeks later in the garden of that same nursing home, holding her hand and talking again, to that empty mass of synapses, i came to understand that she never had known me, she had only known the nikka she wished i was or wished i wasn't. she had never taken the time to listen. and i also realized that her heart had ached for the longest time: abuse from an older brother and accused of being a liar by my unbelieving grandparents. the torture, for her, to make the children she felt a religious duty to bring into the world, the untimely death of her true deity, my father and the resulting decline and death of her soul through the loss and grief of that.

sometime in the intervening eighteen months or so prior to her death i found my peace with her and when she died my anger and pain and abandonment and rebellion had died before she. at her deathbed i was able to see that she had finally been released from that hell that had first been inflicted upon her and then was made a prison for herself by herself.

i love my mother. if i were to wish i would wish that i could have told her this while she would have still understood it. but even now i see that i could never had done that, even without the alzheimer's: she would never have been able to comprehend, never would have been able to listen. but my peace has come anyhow.

may yours come as well, scherza. my love goes with you and the love of our Mom.

March 13, 2003
7:56 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hey Scherza....still looking for my mother-figure. Guess they're out there somewhere.

Love to all and big hugs to those who want them,

Becca xxxxx

March 13, 2003
12:59 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Dear Scherza,

You are indeed very strange. I wish I could help you, but you won't let anyone near you. Is it your fear of rejection? Because I have it, fear of rejection, and it's crippling.

You mentioned falling in love with a theraphist? (correct me if I'm wrong), that's fantasy. Doesn't your husband fill that need in you?

I really don't know what else to say, I guess you don't want help, you just want to be listened to. That's ok. Keep talking.

You are hurting badly, so badly it scares me.

Wish I could help.

Why don't you just fill yourself with love, inmerse yourself in it, let love fill you and turn you into a shinning angel full of grace and glory. How? Well, asking for it helps. But then, you don't believe in prayer. mmmm You think God is a present-giver. He is not. We are all going to die.. Our soul must make contact with him.......through love...........through "praying".
When you are filled with than ocean of love you don't need anything else.

Yes, there are wordly things to take care of, and those you do wonderfully.

But when you are alone, alone withyourself all your demons come back to you. Slowly and silently...
Then ask for love, and ocean of love
Ah yes, you don't believe!

It's all falling on deaf ears.

Counseling always falls in deaf ears, all we want is to hear ourselves talking. Sad. What pitiful cratures we are.

March 13, 2003
3:37 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Scerza,

Take care of that wild child that you are.

You don't have to run your life in circles around that *mother*-shaped black hole in your mind. Propably nobody ever could live up to your longings for a mom, that's why I put it in **. You have tried and tested and tried and struggled whith many possible **candidates, only to end up in a wild state of desparation and dissappointment over and over again. And as a consequence you dug your own private black hole deeper and deeper. And now as soon as you seem to come near it, you start running, before the other one does. And before you get drawn near those memories of an abandoned and unloved child.

I grew up motherless, my mom killed herself when I was two, but I seem to have found enough people to love me and grow up whithout that desperation. So I guess you're not really grieving the loss of a mother, but you grief all the dreams and whishes that a little girl had, that couldn't get love anywhere. I guess you took all the abuse and the abandonment on one side, and your dream on the other side. And the dream is just as dangerous for you as the fear, because they spring from the same roots. I guess you already know this, but it hurts a lot. Take care, take in the spring outside, give yourself a big hug and may there be sunshine for you!

March 13, 2003
10:23 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Scherza, I hope that you will realize how many people are trying to reach out to you here. Your destiny is not set and you have many choices ahead of you. Choose to see the good in people. Try to surround yourself with people who will build you up and not tear you down. I am not the eternal optimist here,but I do know that we all need to be connected to others. It is a natural feeling and it can be very good. There are so many people on this website that have gone through remarkable situations. Their spirits have been wounded but not destroyed. I know that you have been badly wounded too, but you have to want to fight back. God did not cause these terrible things to happen to you. Maybe He is there but not in the way that you expected. Maybe He blessed you with a husband and a wonderful child that you could share your heart and your life with. Maybe you can start to heal by just loving that child unconditionally and seeing how healthy emotionally that child can grow up to be. I do care Scherza and am very worried about you. Keep posting and keep listening. Love, TS

March 14, 2003
5:29 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Nikka: I don't know what to say to you. Therapy doesn't work for me. I am sincerely sorry to hear about your own losses and abandonments.... Thanks for caring.

BeccaUK: That mother you search for doesn't exist...if you didn't get it when you were born, you are never going to get it...and the task is to accept this loss and grieve it and to move on the best you can.

Naty: Your attitude is very much like a classic therapist: judgemental, paternalistic, invalidating...couched in pseudocompassion and punctuated with religion...or "spirituality." We are indeed pitiful creatures...you are right.

Eve: Your mother didn't verbally abuse you and dump you places...repeatedly...and you didn't get to hear her disgust about you...or have to bear her disapproving facial expressions at you...nor did you have the experience of having shoes thrown in your face while in the heat of rage. Yes, you and I are motherless...but we are not the same. Your mother took her stuff out on herself. Mine took it out on me. Even in the book "Motherless Daughters" the author recognizes that this is different and far more damaging...and then she moves on and does not address this anymore. It was too big for the scope of her "study."

Eve: Thanks for caring enough to reach out, though. 🙂

TS: I am only one dimensional on this board. I am also an optomist...believe it or not....and I do see the good in others. I am only lamenting the loss of my own dreams. Ones I created to try to meet my own needs without bothering anyone else with them. I hear you echoing Naty: Why isn't my husband enough for me? (Gosh, you mush be a needy idiot...nothing will ever be enough for you....) Also: I do not believe in god. You are asking me to do something that I cannot do because we do not have the same belief system. You are not taking what I have been saying into account at all.

I appreciate that you care and this is why you wrote. Thank you for that.

March 14, 2003
5:33 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

To all: I appreciate that you are trying to reach out and that you care. What I am doing is very hard for me. This is a life-long grief process! Thanks, each of you, for caring.

March 14, 2003
7:18 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Scherza, I didn't mean to come across as judgmental or as someone who wasn't trying to take your feelings into account. I just wanted to try to comfort you in some way. Sorry that it came across like that. I just know that you are hurting and I wanted to help.

March 14, 2003
9:39 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Good Morning Scherza,
I was watching a program on PBS last night. Have you ever heard of Dr.Wayne Dyer? He wrote a book in the late 70's "The Sky's the Limit".
I hadn't read anything else by him and was pleasantly surprised to haphazardly find him on this channel 🙂

He was so wonderful.
He said some things I want to share with you.
He said to lose the resentments completely. They only create more resentment. You get what you give.
If you give love, then you get it back.
He also said to lose Blame. Forget the past and live in the moment.
He also said that silence is so important. In meditating, quieting your self...you will find your answers. Trust yourself.
Love and Peace to YOu Scherza 🙂

March 14, 2003
8:36 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Personally, I spent a lot of years laying blame for everything on someone else. I'm not going to pretend I've been through anything especially horrific -- it hasn't been easy, but I have been blessed none the less. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is when you put everything on everyone else, blame them for your problems and expect someone else to fix those problems, you stall out and just kinda sit there, stagnate. It's hard to get to thatpoint, where you hold youself accountable, but that's where everyone eventually has to get.

March 15, 2003
7:59 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TS: Understood...thanks for the clarification.

mj: Yes, I have heard of Dyer...have read many of his books. He has lots of great ideas. Thanks for your concern...and your contribution to me.

little girl: I don't think you have read my entire thread...and I don't think I am laying blame on anyone. Things happened as they did because they happened as they did.... I do not ascribe any meaning to them other than in the context of how it affects my relationships today. I cannot fully function in my professional environment today because of my experience years ago...which cut me deep inside and changed me forever. The key to this, in my view, is to acknowledge the coping mechanism I used as a child (adopting lots of moms) as having helped me to survive to middle adulthood...then realize that it is no longer a functional thing...and try to lose it. This loss is a huge one for me...even though probably most people on here think I am being very silly. It is the automatic behaviors that get me into trouble TODAY in my CURRENT life. The behaviors are motivated by a deep, unresolved loss. It cannot be compared to death of a mother, because my mother volunteered to do what she did. (This is a statement of fact and not a blame-shift.) Today, after all of these people are dead in real life, I must cope with the aftermath as a war survivor has to clean up the debris and rebuild after the war has been declared over with. The battle sounds and the tatoos and the shrapnel wounds are left along with the hole in my yard and the house that once existed...and the belongings that are gone forever. I have to move on and leave the mess and make something else with it. "Waiting for mom to come" is not an option any longer. She is not coming. I have to get that. She ran off with some army boys who had chocolate and nylon stockings and she left me behind. She was killed when they were killed....and I am left to clean up the mess.

Giving up dreams is not about blaming anyone...it is about shifting paradigms for living in order to find some hope for the rest of my life. If I give up the dream, I stop making myself crazy looking for it to happen like some superstitous person looking for her prince....

March 16, 2003
4:05 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

scherza, this is a reach, but what the heck...... I think you get me well enough to know that I mean no harm, I hope. You remember EST? Latter called Landmark education? Werner Erheardt? I did it, learned a ton, however also lived the down side,cult crap, game speak, and I can say it really did twist my mind for a while, but there were some great tools that i picked up, beyond confrontational....
If you were to go into one of those seminars, they would say that this is your act, your story....... you are on it. stuck like a broken record. Dr phil did the same work, he would ask how is this working for you? I am gonna ask, how does it serve you to keep this line of history in your future? You are like a hamster on a`wheel with blame and self pity. You can let it go, why transfer thias to your kid which is inevitable. Be differwent, and when you get that this act no longer works you will, its that simple. Be who you want to be, change your future basd on your past.

March 18, 2003
10:07 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Molly: I don't think you get it at all...especially if you only see blame and self-pity here. And it looks like you have a lot of assumptions about me, too.

I am also familiar with EST...and have done some of this, myself....

I can "get off of it" and be just fine...and I am...until one of those precursors reappears...like the professor who wants me to work with her. I am fine and in the year 2003, until she starts talking in detail about the child she is adopting. The feelings reappear...I do not dwell on them...and yet they come and they take over. This is beyond my control. I can choose to ignore them...but I end up acting on them in some wierd way anyway...whether I acknowledge them or not...they are still with me...I have been doing this for about 20 years...and it does NOT get better. I wish it DID! I could be doing a lot more with myself right now if I COULD! I am only more aware of this now...that is all.

Also: I do not transfer this to my kid because we have good parent-child ego boundaries and I do not share this part of my experience with her. She is 16 now...and does not cling to teachers as I did at her age. She does not even cling (unnaturally) to boyfriends! She is a strong young woman. Her world and her life are DRAMATICALLY different than mine was.

One of the risks I accept about sharing this with all of you is that I WILL be misunderstood. Grief becomes self-pity rather than a process for letting go and reaching acceptance.... Also...because I am very highly functional most of the time, it is assumed that this is all just an act...that I am making this up and I can't possibly really be having this problem. Even I would like to just shut up and pretend like that simple thing will make it all go away...and then I meet up with situations that remind me that it hasn't gone away and that assist me in making a total fool of myself...whether I like it or not.

Yeah...just get off it...this means to cut myself off from my humanity. I have to stuff feelings and pretend that they aren't there when they appear. Act tough. I am doing that already right now in my Real World...to some extent.

The problem with this board is you can't see me. You can't see how I look or how I carry myself...or anything. You have to make assumptions about me based on what you think about what I say on these missives.

My problem is that I am mostly functional...except for this ONE thing that gets in my face and usually during the most inopportune times of my career/life. If I ignore it, it takes over. I have to acknowledge that it is a powerful source of frustration for me...and make decisions around its existance...so I will not screw up and make a total fool of myself by inadvertantly letting it "get out" and affect my current professional relationships.

I really wish it was just an act...than I could just quit doing it and I would have nothing to write about on this board...! I tried to do this several times...over the last several years. I fail. I fail. I FAIL! Like it or not, I fail every single time. I fail.

Maybe I do need to "just shut up" and "get off it"...at least with the world. I, however, have to deal with this...whether I like it or not, I do not seem to have a choice...but the world DOESN'T have to deal with my issue. And neither does this board.

It really is just my problem...and I have acknowledged this all along.

Molly: You see a hamster on a wheel of self-pity and blame.... As if there is a choice here. I really really really wish there was a choice here. One I could feel from DEEP inside me. You do not understand that I don't seem to get to have a choice here. The ship is damaged...and I have to partition off the section in the hull that is letting the water in! I have done this...and it seems to be all I can do. And, no, I have not passed this on to my child....

Please do not confuse my issues for yours.

March 18, 2003
10:13 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Scherza,
I hear so much anger from you.
Maybe this is how you need to heal your grief....but....it alienates me because I hate being attacked by trying to be a friend to you and supportive.

If you want support here, then intimidating others will not get you support. But that is just my opinion.

I do care about you even if I don't know you or can see you. I want to reach out and help by listening.
Hugs to You.

March 18, 2003
10:49 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi scherza.

Want a hug to start?

Ditto to what MJ said.

There's more than one item going on, at least that I read. And if we don't "get" any of you from reading, then posting isn't helpful, and isn't a reasonable thing to continue? So let us "get" some of you from reading. Cuz, well, we just won't be able to see you.

There's anger. That's for sure. Don't doubt it or discount it. If you do, you're denying it. It reads and screams off the page to me. Anger is a wall. Anger prevents people from reaching out to themselves, and others. What are you angry about? I think it's clear. At least one point. YOU'RE PISSED OFF TO HIGH HELL AT YOUR MOTHER!!!!! I would be too!!!! At least until I worked it out in some fashion.

If you're looking for a "method" of how to mend the deep wounds, then may I make a suggestion?

Read/work/whatever, about anger first. Then re-visit the abandonment feelings etc, with a different perspective/a changed person. Work on that first. Cuz the other ways of approaching this haven't worked, and none of our perspectives/opinions about healing hurt has connected w/ you (at least as of yet). We're not professionals, and yet, the professionals don't seem to have helped either. What's next?

I can tell you that for me, it took hitting bottom. Until I hit bottom myself, I had a wall of anger so tough and hard (though you'd never know, I was still a "softy", a really nice, loving, etc person... but I had anger to beat the band). Don't think we/I can't relate, because I/some of us can. At least I can to the anger. I fear that you think I'm calling you an "angry person", I'm not. But people who have anger hear that, and it doesn't help. Now how would I know that? hmmm But I'm just throwing this out here in another attempt to reach out and let you know that I too, am a real person. You too, cannot see or reach me physically. Don't cast us "real people" away either. We ARE REAL PEOPLE over here!

Like MJ, Molly, Naty, et al above, I realize this suggestion feels like another failing attempt to help or understand. But I look at it this way at this point scherza, you're lucky someone is still responding for all the repeated "no thank you's" everyone is receiving here.

March 18, 2003
2:41 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

it's just me, citing Coelho again:

"If you must cry, cry like a child.
"You were once a child, and one of the first things you leamed in life was to cry, because crying is a part of life. Never forget that you are free, and that to show your emotions is not shameful.
"Scream, sob loudly, make as much noise as you like. Because that is how children cry, and they know the fastest way to put their hearts at ease. "Have you ever noticed how children stop crying? 'they stop because something distracts them. Something calls them to the next adventure. "Children stop crying very quickly.
"And that's how it will be for you. But only if you can cry as children do."

March 18, 2003
4:03 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

mj: I had to re-read this entire thread in order to see why it was that you feel that I attacked you. I am honestly having difficulty seeing where it was that I attacked you on this thread. I am very direct, but I cannot understand how anything I have ever said to you on this thread could be construed or interpreted as an attack.

SC: We really seem to be butting heads here, huh?

I think that there is a lot of misunderstanding here.

I really am isolated and now I really feel it, too. I am getting that. There is no place for me here.

I really did hope for one last attempt to connect...and I have failed.

It's OK. I am not crying anymore...and I will not talk about it anymore, either. I can make it go away for everyone...so no one has to feel attacked or anything because of me anymore....

March 18, 2003
4:21 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Scerza,

why is it that you state loud and clearly that nobody can help you? I hear you. But why do you want me to hear you, you seem so dug in in this position of 'nobody can help me', to me it seems to repeat again and again. Does it help you to repeat this out loud? Dose it help you if we notice this? Does it help you to say it out loud? I'll be glad to listen if it does. I'm kind of bummed, because it doesn't seem to, though.

Can I help in any way? Can you find more specific questions that would make it easier to help you? What could help you at all - doesn't need to be specific, but do you have any clue?

March 18, 2003
5:44 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Eve: I don't seem to have any clue at all....

People say they are feeling attacked by my responses. Some of the responses I have gotten from them make me feel attacked. Especially the assumption that this is all an act and I just need to get off of/get over it...and that I am passing all of this onto my child. I would "gotten over it" a very long time ago, if this option were viable for me. This is no act. And I am not passing this on to my child...another faulty assumption. I have never abandoned her nor have I placed her in the helpless care of any parent figure who abused or hated or even disliked her. I never even tolerated a teacher that was a little too severe with her. This is one area in my life where I have not failed....

The only thing I can see that I can do is to just shut up and stop talking. It has been what I have heard my world tell me it wants from me for years, anyway. I have to cut a piece of myself off to do this...but it is better than getting the problems that I get when I am connected to all of myself at once. Also, avoiding close relationships with maternal women...that is another thing I can do. I can deal with her, as long as she doesn't get maternal with me...and there are things I can do to maintain the boundaries to avoid this in the future.

At this point, I am not blaming anyone about anything. I am in this wrecked vehicle and I need to get it running again. It doesn't matter who hit me or why...I just have to get it started and going. Using the kid in war torn Europe analogy...I need to clean up the mess around me...even if I didn't make it...and move on somehow. It actually doesn't matter who made the mess. The only thing that matters is getting it cleaned up and avoiding situations that make that mess again in the future.

There is a limit to human caring.

Thanks everyone for your version of caring...no matter what it is. I am moving on now....

March 18, 2003
6:46 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Scherza,
I didn't say you attacked me....I said I hate being attacked....my issue. In the past, you have attacked me....by saying I was parroting someone....and I too have trust issues and don't like being judged or attacked either. I too reread your thread which is filled with your judgements of others and I just don't like risking being your friend if it requires taking your judgement. Yes, this happened back in December...but that is when I learned to be careful with you.

I do wish you the best. I do care. I am sorry that I hurt you with my inability to communicate what was in my heart.

March 19, 2003
4:17 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Scerza,

>>>I don't seem to have any clue at all....

I'd say this is a much better starting point than many others - and I'm not being ironic here.

🙂

really not!

You feel uneasy, because you sense in some replies >>> Especially the assumption that this is all an act and I just need to get off of/get over it.

This would be a natural assumption. You don't seem to like where you're being, so try to get away from it somehow. In my experience this only works for the easy things. E.g. if somebody annoys me, and this person isn't important for me - its easy to avoid this person. Whith the tough things, usually the way has to be different, has to go right straight into the tangle where the problem has built its nest. To walk towards ist, go (get/work/think/cry/???) right through things and past them, - or, get closer to them, go around them, look at them from different angles, try to get them to show you at least three different faces, find a way of resolving or integrating them.

>>> This is one area in my life where I have not failed....

This "not to fail" seems to be very important to you. This is highly understandable for the context where you used it above. Yet, from some of your other posts I seem to read that "not to fail" is something that is generally very important to you. Do you have equally paid attention to "being able to fail"? Being able to fail partially, yet feel that your mind and soul won't fall apart in the process?

>>> The only thing I can see that I can do is to just shut up and stop talking.

Yep, I hear that. And this might be the reason that you react upset to some of the posts. Because you feel that the posts tell you to shut up and stop processing it. I don't think that most of them try to do this.

>>> It has been what I have heard my world tell me it wants from me for years, anyway.

Some people say that we tend to hear that we expect to hear, what we were taught to hear. Or is it even worse - do you hear it, because somewhere in your ears this little pixie from your past sits and tries to whisper exactly this to you, and you don't want to listen, yet you don't dare not to?

>>> At this point, I am not blaming anyone about anything.

But you feel like you're torn into little pieces and then told to pick yourself (I mean, this heap of little pieces, trodden to the ground) up and go away. Doesn't seem fair, does it?

>>> I am in this wrecked vehicle and I need to get it running again. It doesn't matter who hit me or why...I just have to get it started and going.

What would be the wrecked vehicle? That you had to give up this piece of business whith a woman you'd admire? Or that you feel helpless whith the turmoil of your emotions? What is it that you *need* to get running again - and how would you know if it was running the way it should? Why is it so important for this vehicle "not to fail" and what exactly do you feel is the failure here?

My Feldenkrais teacher says that 90% of the muscular damage in accidents or injuries result from struggling to keep control over the body. She says that if you fall, not to immediately struggle to get upright again, let the body settle in the new position, asess, feel around, and then try out carefully what works from there. And the amazing thing is - it does seem to work. Last week she fell from her balconee to the grass 3 meters below (and she is an elderly lady), but she was there the next day, whith lots of bruises, but nothing broken, nothing strained.

To me it seems that you increase your uneasiness in this situation by struggling. I can't really tell - what would happen if you struggle less, and try to tolerate and analyze the uneasiness and the whole mess, and then wiggle your way away from there slowly?

>>> I need to clean up the mess around me...even if I didn't make it...and move on somehow. It actually doesn't matter who made the mess.

But it is important to take a close look at the mess, dissect it, and take some samples of it for later analysis, perhaps.

>>> The only thing that matters is getting it cleaned up and avoiding situations that make that mess again in the future.

Do I detect a hint of "just shut up and stop it" here? Look at this mess more closely. Which parts of it could you avoid, which parts of it could you tolerate if they came on their own, which parts could you take out of the mess, polish them and use them for something better. Maybe you will even find a part inside this mess that you were looking for, for a long time, never thinking that it could be hidden there, in the mid of this mess.

>>> There is a limit to human caring.

Yes, there would be, but its not a brick wall. This *limit* is almost alive and moving and growing and fading, depending on the situation.

>>> I am moving on now....

Do move on, but try not to run away 😉

Take care
((((hug))))

March 19, 2003
8:33 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

yes, scherza. eve is onto something here i think. move, but not too swiftly. time is an element that we often take too lightly. we like to arrive in the 'nick of time' after we 'don't have the time.' and yet, as with space, for us time is infinite. we do, indeed, have it.

i do care deeply, sister. i do feelsome of your pain. and i will assume nothing and just tell you: i don't think you should stop processing and go on. analysis is too very important to you, to not analyze this 'mess' you are left with would, i think violate some deeply held part of yourself.

eve. thank you, for me, for a wonderful and wise post.

scherza, my heart goes with yours. be well and be whole, sister.

March 21, 2003
3:45 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Eve:

I wasn't going to read this thing or respond anymore. The gentleness of your words makes me want to respond....

You say:

You don't seem to like where you're being, so try to get away from it somehow. Whith the tough things, usually the way has to be different, has to go right straight into the tangle where the problem has built its nest. To walk towards ist, go (get/work/think/cry/???) right through things and past them, - or, get closer to them, go around them, look at them from different angles, try to get them to show you at least three different faces, find a way of resolving or integrating them.

This is precisely the whole purpose for my writing about this: The deepest most painful issue of my life. Facing it all...butting my head against it...falling off it...trying to find something meaningful to take with me. This has had to be a solitary exercise for me. I can't even seem to pay someone to help me to do this.

You mention not failing as being important to me. I believe that my life is full of personal failures...complete or partial. I have even "trusted" and tried "letting go"...only to get screwed even deeper and harder than ever before. I have learned that the older you get, the less forgivable that this is to the common eye. I am supposed to be grown up now. Someone has an alarm clock ticking and has decided how long is long enough and I have expired that time. The new assumptions about me unfold: I am doing this on purpose and I enjoy it. I can assure you that this is so very untrue.

Fairness...it is a joke. It is relative and only bears force on a foundation of cultural opinion. It is like justice and truth...also banners of "freedom" for the chosen few. What matters is who you can convince of the merit of your struggle...Machiavelli even taught us this hundreds of years ago.

The wrecked vehicle analogy: Not being able to be big enough to work professionally with this researcher in 2003...without messing up the relationship with my hell...and I will find a way somehow...it is a certainty. I will screw it up...and I will have to find ways to cope for the next few years in order to control the damage. This is my failure.

Ahhh...yes...falling WITH it. It was the very thing that I was advised to do...by a trusty friend...who is also a therapist who I was not seeing professionally...who got scared and high tailed it the minute I did this. She didn't stop at running either. She had to include others...build a legend around me and my "neediness." She needed to make sure that no one would think that SHE had anything to do with me...! (I am a loser, afterall...and she is not.)

Falling with it....only for babies with mothers that are present enough to catch them before their diaper hits the floor...not for pathetic, needy, hopeless women in their forties! This is a source of shame...and rightfully so! I should act my age now. Someone has decided this.

Life is too short for taking samples to analyze later...unless you enjoy doing the study. I do not enjoy this study. I hate it, in fact.

Cutting myself off is better...I can get more done doing things I enjoy doing and have less conflict and still die in the end anyway...which is the only real destiny for all of us.

The results of what I will get for slithering around in the mess to find what few gold coins might be there is not worth the pain it will require. In fact, if it were not for my child and husband, I would quietly and simply just take my life. Sell everything and give the money away...no regrets. No threats. No big dramas...no pathetic "cries for help." No mess anymore...I would do it in a way that people would think it was an accident...and it would be easy to dispose of my body...so no one has to suffer with memories of what they saw of my remains. There are very many ways to do this, in fact....

Yes, move on I must do. Everyone requires it of me...as I am as a broken record in the discotech of disdain...barely alive. An annoyance for all...fodder for the latest gossip....

March 21, 2003
10:18 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Peace to everyone....

Site Coordinator: Please delete this thread. Thanks.

March 23, 2003
10:34 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Scherza,
Hope today brings you lots of Positive thoughts and lots of love, and lots of hope!

Peace to YOU.

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 349
Currently Online:
35
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 110962
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38560
Posts: 714252
Newest Members:
JayGriffin212, Youse1937, Cannabeme, charli55, SeaG1ant, shawncanwe
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer | Do Not Sell My Personal Information