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I NEED YOUR ADVICE...FR: "CAMER"
December 20, 2004
7:33 pm
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CAMER
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hi everyone, i cut back on my meds 2 wks ago, and started balling tonite, not sure if its cuz of my meds or what my guy (been dating for 5 months exclusively) said.
This may be petty, or isn't it. We got into
a topic of conversation about...this is him
speaking to me...."seeing me and my friends parade around in lingerie, in front of him"....and I asked him, would he ever enjoy seeing me "with" another woman, and i was dumbfounded and he said YES...so i told him that he would not care if i made out with a woman, it would be "ok" and not cheating....but of course if i did this with a man it would be wrong. I got all upset, started crying, i think it is cuz of
my emotional damaged background, going out with a guy who sold porn, went out with a gambler, coke head, pot head, alcoholics...men who used and abused me, and all I wanted was for them to love me.
Now, for me to get upset about my new guy
not "caring" if i got it on with another woman (which i wouldn't anyways, its just the point)...to me this is cheating, to him
it is for him to "get off"...it just makes me think he is a pig. I have in the past asked about this to men, my last bf being a
seller of porn, didn't want me watching movies, and would never want me to see ME with a woman or a man......why does this new guy think this way, it makes me feel "unworthy" it makes me feel like he doesnt care for me, cuz he doesn't care if
I screw around with another woman...it doesn't make sense, or am i just being a prude and how to i approach this topic with him....Help me please!!! (((love camer))))

December 20, 2004
7:48 pm
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readyforachange
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CAMER,

Well, you might need a guy's perspective on this one, because I know they think totally differently than we do....

but, I think you may be reading a little too much into what he said. I don't know how it was said or if this was a serious discussion, or just throwing ideas around...so I can't really give you too much input. But I do know that guys sometimes like to talk about lots of things, whether they'd really do them or not is another story.

I don't know...maybe you need to talk with him seriously about what he meant, and how you interpreted it. Maybe it was a misunderstanding....maybe just a little fantasy of his that he doesn't really want acted out.

I know it's hard when people don't respond the way we want them to...or think they should; but I think sometimes we have to give them a chance...

just my thoughts...keep your cool for now and look at the big picture....

((((CAMER)))))

December 20, 2004
7:56 pm
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CAMER
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thanks ready!! i looked at the big picture, and the big picture is would be that if another girl came onto me and started making out with me, HE WOULD NOT CARE!..he thinks this is OK, he thinks all girls are lovey dovey, he thinks all girls are touchy feely, he thinks this is NORMAL. I am not gay, and i asked him again, and he told me it would not be "cheating", he'd like to watch.......it bothered me cuz I know he was serious about this, and it bothers me that he doesn't have the morals that I do...to me, if you kiss a guy its cheating, but for me to kiss a girl its not (in his eyes))) i don't get it and I just think we are on different levels. I work with 2 men, and they told me they "don't" like to see 2 women getting it on, cuz it does nothing for "them" and they even said they
would not want to see their wifes with another woman.....but my new guy thinks this is OK and cool....maybe he has been watching too much Howard Stern, i don't know,
but I hate the thought of him not caring if i kiss some girl, and the morals of it all........it really pisses me off!! whew, i had to get this out.

December 20, 2004
8:13 pm
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Hurts_so_bad
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Camer - I'd have to agree with you. Any guy that would want to watch while his girlfriend gets it on with someone else - male or female - does not equate to someone that is serious about the relationship. I find it insulting. Sounds to me like he may only be interested in a casual relationship. If that's the case, be careful not to get hurt. If he gets off watching other people getting it on, he should perhaps stick to porn movies.

December 20, 2004
8:21 pm
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CAMER
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thanks hurts....at first i was embarrassed to even post this, but this is how i "feel" and i feel hurt...I know people who "swing" and share eachother with other couples, that is their thing...not for me, but
for him to not care if I was with another girl, just shows me that he
doesn't care too much about me...I always thought that when couples are are couple it is just them "2" not others added in. And if 2 consenting adults choose to swap off hey, thats for them, I myself find this more of a moral dilema, and him not really
knowing what "love" is as opposed to
"lust"...but I have come this far with my coda...and if this is a red
flag, then heck, I am getting out of this one for sure.

December 20, 2004
9:17 pm
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art angel
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((((((Camer)))))))-- hugs for you,

And you just listen to your heart, and maybe I am idealistic, but I too think that when 2 people are a copule it is just those 2.

Don't you forget we all love you here!

hugs,

art angel

December 20, 2004
9:17 pm
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opal
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Camer,

((((hug))))

I also think it is wrong, because I see it as intimacy, but I think men view it as only being sexual, somehow they are able to see it in two differnt ways.

talk to him about it, mention how you see it is so very different to the ways he see's it, I guess with women, our hearts are involved more often than not.

my fiance mentioned it to me once, and he never has got up the courage to mention it again, sometimes I really do think men are from Mars and women are from Venus, just can't work them out sometimes.

if it's hurt you it's not petty, hope you feel better soon,

opal

December 20, 2004
9:20 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Camer,

Men are just sexual beings. They (not all) get off on all kinds of weird stuff. Why ask if you were gonna be upset at the answer? Not that it makes a difference, coz it would have upset me too.

Have you talked seriously to him about this? Are you absolutely sure he wasn't just funnin w/ you and he meant it?

I'm not saying what he said was right, coz in my book it is wrong. What I am saying is that some men are just perverts? (sorry, shouldn't label, but couldn't think of another word).

Better you find out the truth now than later. Sorry it hurts so much, but face it and then decide what you want to do.

December 20, 2004
9:32 pm
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CAMER
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thanks Opal, Angel, and Mama...i feel so stupid..even though i shouldn't. I just talked to him and of course he tells me he is "only kidding" and it was a joke....well i mentioned in the past about this new guy and his "kidding around" and i talked to him about his kidding around, and he seems to do it too often, and especially kidding around about sex with another woman and me...that is not a joke for me. He doesn't understand....I was abused at such a young age at 17 years old, doing things with men no girl should ever do, and for what, to be loved! and I was never loved back just used and thrown away, still looking for the next guy to make things better and different, i gave myself, my body my mind and my heart at such a young age, all to be loved. The love i never had as a child. I am crying so hard now, I feel awful....not at myself, kinda at HIM for his jokes, but how the hell can i tell when someone is joking when i ask and reask the same question 3x within 5 minutes...maybe he know he hurt me and won't tell me the truth, i don't know. I do know I am hurt, I do know
maybe I am not "ready" emotionally for a relationship, cuz if i was, why am I crying and letting this bother me. I guess the thought of being with a "nice" man, as I am, and him telling me that he doesn't care if i am with another "girl"...to me it just brings up my past, and him not caring, then the pain re surfaces....Now i need to find out what i should do. I feel so confused, so hurt, am I just an emotional mess, i don't know. He hung up on me saying I analyze things too much, he told me he was upset and his whole week is now ruined cuz of our fight, i told him, i have to be honest with how i feel, and this hurt me, and i told him to
frikken stop his so called "kidding" around, esp about sex...coming from a girl who had a very bad sexual upbringing. I will for now, not call him, he hung up on me, I will not chase him, I am going to Let Go and Let God for now....and I THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR RESPONSES, they mean the world to me, I love you all!!! camer

December 20, 2004
9:43 pm
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opal
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Camer,

I am so sorry you are feeling like this, don't let him tell you that you have ruined his week, you are not the one at fault, so don't feel guilty about this, men do that sometimes, blame us for the storm, when they started it with the clouds, (does that make sense?).

take care, you will find the love you deserve, just hang in there.

love,
opal

December 20, 2004
9:45 pm
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Anonymous
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Ohh camer, I am so sorry you are going through this rough time, men are men aren't they. I have a found that many men like to "kid" around about threesomes and while I agree with you 100% on the tackiness, in actuality men do not view it like we do. I view it as me not being enough and I think men just view it as a fantasy. I would give it a break for a little bit, not like a break but just take some time and just let things cool down for you, see where you are at, I'm sure that this will work out for you, you are a kind caring person, and while I'm sure your boyfriend realizes that, men just in essence don't think the way we do. They never will, and the ones that do are rare gems.

December 20, 2004
9:55 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Camer,

You hold your head up and do something to get out of this mood. I'm sorry he hung up on you. Don't call him back tonight. Don't look like you are weak and clingie. You be strong. I don't know why, but as Aces said, men like to tease about this kind of thing. That's not making it any better, but maybe don't ask him questions that open yourself up for hurt.

Turn on some music and sing or do something to take your mind of his hanging up on you. He (men, some not all) just don't know how to gracefully save face.

"How bout that"

December 20, 2004
9:57 pm
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{{{{camer}}}} I'm so sorry you're feeling so lousy. I can't really give you any words of wisdom here because I wasn't there when you two had this conversation(s), but I do know that you've got to go with your instinct. If what he said bothered you so much (and it would me too), you've got to decide whether or not he's worth dating. Him hanging up on you when you were trying to explain your feelings and trying to make you feel bad about it...that sucks. Maybe he was only half "kidding" when he told you about his sexual fantasy.....but generally I believe where there's smoke, there's fire. I hate being this blunt, but I just don't get a fuzzy feeling about this guy from what I've read. I hope I'm wrong. Just be careful and most of all, take care of Camer. 🙂

December 20, 2004
10:03 pm
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CAMER
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((((opal again thanks!!! and Aces, you are a great person!!!))))

I have cooled down, I got an email from 2 of my closest friends in CA, they are near and dear and love me so much and only want me to be happy.
They talked to me about God and comforted me thru this time. When I first started dating this new guy I thought he was "boring"...then I thought he "kidded" around too much now this is our 1st fight...so maybe I am just "not ready" for a relationship or maybe he is just not the right man for me. We argued, and of course, he hung up on ME! that is his issue now. I am going to pray b4 bed and know things will get better, maybe this did happen for a reason. I am happy now that all of this is out in the open with "him" and he now knows that I don't like his silly
kidding around and/or when to think he is not kidding around..i am sick of the jokes, i need more seriousness.....maybe I just need more of myself, if that makes sense.
Wow, I feel so much better, ((((Here are a million group hugs for you all))) i don't know what i would do without you all, thanks for being so kind and caring!!! love, camer

December 20, 2004
10:16 pm
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CAMER
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(((hurts so bad)))) thanks so much for your wonderful feedback....i feel so much hetter now, sometimes a good cry does help!!! I will sleep peacefully tonite, and know that God is with me, and yes, I will be ok.

(((thanks again Hurts))))) and everyone on this thread!!!
love to all !!!! ((((camer)))))

December 20, 2004
11:04 pm
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brownie
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Hey camer.

I'm sorry i did not reply to your thread right away.I had an argument with my daughter.

I hope you come back on and read this.Because i want to let you know how extremely sorry i am.I'm so sorry that he hurt you the way he did.But you know what,it was best to have found out now what he was all about then later on when you would have liked him much more and then be in despair again.God answered you.This guy is not right for you.You had every right whatsoever to feel the way you do.And don't ever call your stupid camer.You are not stupid.You had a right to speak what you felt.You was dealing with your issues and that is the most greatest thing ever to do.You know how they do in coda.We accept the things we cannot change,the courage to change things i can.You are doing an excellent job with yourself and recovery.I am proud of you.He was no good for you.He should have took your feelings into consideration,which he didn't.

Go on with your life and leave him alone.Screw him.You will find someone better.God has someone for you.Believe that.Just continue to let go and let god.He will be there for you.Love you.

(((((ALL HUGS AND SUPPORT SENT YOUR WAY CAMER))))).Feel better.

December 20, 2004
11:09 pm
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art angel
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Camer,

I wish you a wonderful night's sleep, and wake up tomorrow with a hug from me and from yourself!!!

I love you!

art angel

December 21, 2004
1:55 am
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hi camer,

if you really think about it, it sounds like he would not consider it cheating because he does not view women as equals to men. More like objects. Any sexual interaction, whether with men or women (or donkeys, for pete's sake) would be considered cheating if sexual and emotional monogamy was valued in the relationship. The fact that he wouldn't consider you having sex with another woman cheating suggests he doesn't view women as whole people capable of "competing" with him. Kind of disturbing.

Of course, I'm not quite sure what my bf would say to that propisition. I might be in the same boat. It's probably best not to ask.

Hmmm. I hope you are doing better,

zax

December 21, 2004
7:01 am
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CAMER
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Art, Brownie, and Zax...and everyone else who recently posted...thank you......!!! I feel weak, I called him this morning, he sounded so bummed out, and yes, he is the one who hung up on me last nite. I am glad that I let go last nite and had time to think....but now I feel weak cuz i did call him today. I told him i need to think things over and will call him tonite. But how will i know what the truth is, and what is real and what is a joke.

Its funny, i know alot of people would think this subject is silly, but how do you know how a person really is unless you ask. And how do i know when someone is kidding or not? I guess with my tainted past for him to start the conversation about women walking around in lingerie would be a great time to find out how he feels about "me" and what he would consider cheating. I rmember back when Bill Clinton had the oral sex, and considered that not cheating...well, to each his own.

I told him last nite, what if he stepped on an "ant" and killed it and I got upset that he did this...well 100 people may think its stupid, but if it affects me and how I feel, he should just listen and understand, not maybe agree but at least understand.

This whole topic goes so deep, I do not want a "hypocrite" for a bf, I do
not want a guy who thinks its ok for me to kiss a guy or girl and think that is NOT cheating, cuz I think it is and and it goes around the whole
moral issue. I have had a hard time with morals and with men, I need to
dig deeper. I am not saying that I
don't want my guy to look at women, i just don't want him to accept things that I think are unacceptable.....if that makes sense.

I really need to focus on what I want
and find out what he wants and really find out if we are compatible.
For him to hang the phone up on me, makes me think there are communication problems. Sometimes I wish I could just make things go away, the pain, the feelings, but the only way to get around it is thru
conversation.

I told him i will call him tonite, not sure on how I feel or what I will say, please offer me any support or strenght to get thru this and any feedback on what you may think.

Even though, deep in my mind i think
I may be blowing this out of proportion, but how do you really know about a person unless you ask.

Thanks everyone just for listening, I guess i really needed to vent.

(((Love and peace to all)))) camer

December 21, 2004
7:13 am
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Camer,

Blowing something out of proportion is whatever is unacceptable within your boundaries. My only advise would be:

Pray, Let Go, LISTEN, then decide.

I will say a prayer for you too.
Best to you.

December 21, 2004
9:34 am
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brownie
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Camer.

I had wrote something in my thread concerning this.You don't need to be hard on yourself.Later for what people thinks,this is how you feel.You want to be extra,extra careful that you don't make the same mistake twice.And its not the fact you are weak.You are dealing with your feelings.The three A's.Awareness,Accept and Action.Thats in our recovery remember.

I am glad you brought this topic up,because i never thought about that before.Maybe if i would have known before i married my husband,i don't think i would have married him.Hes a porn freak and he believes in having a threesome.Which i find to be very disgusting and immoral.So,you are showing me something.Something i can use in other relationships,if i'm still with my husband.

I would not had wanted to go with someone who is a hypocrite and a sex freak.I'm with you on that.We been thru the same thing as far as abuse issues.I understand what your saying camer.We love you and will support always.

(((((HUGS AND WARMTH SENT YOUR WAY)))).

December 21, 2004
10:43 am
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workinonit
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My dear friend Camer. You know, I've known you the longest on this board. It's hard for me to see you hurting like this.:(

This is what you said and this is what you would tell any one else here! "I really need to focus on what I want and find out what he wants and really find out if we are compatible. For him to hang the phone up on me, makes me think there are communication problems. Sometimes I wish I could just make things go away, the pain, the feelings, but the only way to get around it is thru conversation."

The issue isn't really how he feels about a threesome, the issue is about how respectful he is toward you. You feel cheated right now and that is more than understandable. RAISE THE BAR CAMER You know as well as I do, you deserve a man who cherishes you, who believes in you, who sees life through the same window as you do. Know this is what you want and accept nothing less. We're talking about a life time now. Do you want to settle? I don't think you do or you would not feel the way you dio right now.

I believe in you honey and so does everyone else here. Be good to you!

((((((((((((((LOVING HUGS)))))))))))))))

December 21, 2004
11:04 am
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CAMER
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(((more hugs to Mama, Brownie and Workin)))) Workin, when you sent me the thread on the "liberation brew" under Blossoming Tree, with my b'day....you did mention i will be coming into the time of my life when things change and may affect me for the next 25 years or so....I am trying to relate this all, and maybe I really do know what I want and somehow last nite....the "real" me
came out, maybe from past bad relationships, abuse, bad sexual history, etc.....I am at work now and
have to re read this thread and the other thread. I do know what I want, and it seems like sometimes I get caught up in with "society" wants and how I should behave...but this is my life for ME not for everyone else, and yes I do have choices, whether others like them or not..it is a choice. Thanks so much for your time in posting!

Brownie & Mama ((thanks again for the insight)))) and Brownie, i wish you luck with your hubby, whatever road it may take, just know I am here for you for support always.

Love, camer

December 21, 2004
11:37 am
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Camer,

I see many red flags here. It doesn't sound like he is very interested in trying to understand how you feel and honor your feelings. I wonder too if he really was joking. Sometimes people say they were joking when they were really telling the truth. I would find it hard to trust what he has to say. Another red flag I see is his hnaging up on you and blaming you for his mood. He sounds imature. You need to have a safe environment where you can say anything and he needs to be willing to make that safe for you and really hear you. This would bother me more than him saying he wants to see me with another woman. If he wasn't joking that's another red flag for me.

December 21, 2004
12:38 pm
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art angel
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Camer-

Heya babe! Please don't be so hard on yourself. You know I used to do the same thing, I'd get upset about something, then we'd fight or something and I'd be the one to call and of course I'd feel weak. But you are who you are, and that is a wonderful thing, and don't ever be sorry for it! Our pasts do affect us and our significant others need to understand this. If your guy isn't willing to try to understand, then he isn't worth your time. You are one of the most loving, caring, thoughtful people I've ever met and you deserve someone just like you.

Moral issues are a tough one for me too, because my ex made me feel bad for having morals against doing drugs and just being disrespectful in general toward women and me in particular. He made me feel like I was uptight. BUT, it is just how I am, and if HE thinks I am uptight, then whatever. He can think whatever he wants. I know what feels right to me. Not him. Same for you, and don't you ever let anyone influence your tastes or morals, or opinions. You are a strong beautiful wonderful woman Camer and I'm so lucky to know you!!!!

big hugs and all my love,

art angel

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