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I need help not to call!!!
December 5, 2001
8:42 pm
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Molly
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So, today I want you to start a journal, I want you to write every thing you ever wanted in a man, your dream guy. I want you to then write on a page why you love him, and want him in your life. Then I want you to write down the way he hurts you, the things he does not do, the parts of him that you wish would change. then tommorow morning I want you to write what is in your head, any thing, before you even brush your teeth, coffee is ok, if not mandatory, first thing in your head when you wake up. then do the day, and before you go to bed, write what comes, your thoughts feelings etc. do not look at those first four pages until day 6. On day six, read those three pages, and then write them all over again,where your head is at on day 6 after the first 6 days. so , four pages about dream man, why I want man, what I don't like about man, then write your feelings for the day, then on day 12 repeat.

Sometimes we doubt our selves, ever go with out meat for a couple of weeks then have that great big steak you smelled, and craved. Trust me you feel sick after wards, and into the next morning. Sure tasted as good as we wanted to remember it, but soooooooooo bad for the system.
You didn't do anything we haven't done, just wanted to spare you the pain, we wouldn't have listened either I bet. So, don't beat your self up, we still love you.

December 6, 2001
12:13 pm
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lyn
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thanks molly i can't wait to start journaling..i do journal often but not consitantly or with any purpose.. your idea allows me to set a goal and stick with it... i will try my best thanx a bunch...

December 6, 2001
3:17 pm
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Starbaby
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Hi lyn

Molly's idea does sound good, doesn't it? I've been thinking about the journal thing lately and that gives me a good place to start.

Anyways, just really wanted to tell you that your "relapse" is ok. Its all a part of the process. Don't worry about being judged... we've been there too. Don't be too hard on yourself for it either..just make sure you learn from it and keep doing your best to move on.

((((((HUG)))))))

December 6, 2001
4:29 pm
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jb489
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Hi Lyn,
I have been reading the threads you have been writing and I too had relapsed. I thought John and I were going to get back on track slowly. When I felt him giving into his feelings of love for me I dove in very quickly and drowned him. I remembered a thread a while back that said to give yourself 21 days and then you'll be home free. Well I am on day 5 for not calling him and it is easier than I thought. I do have lonely thoughts and still miss him but I have also decided to start a journal. I write down what I want to say to him if I were to call him. Yeah I don't get any answers, but at least I don't feel as bad as I did when I would talk to him and was not given any answers except "I don't know" I still cry but not because of what he said. I'm not sure if this makes any sense but I want to thank you for helping me when we are all trying to help you. I think you are strong and you can get through this. Are you able to go out with some friends or maybe even pick up another job to take up some of the down time you are experiencing. Not to mention the extra money you would be making-maybe you'll meet someone more worthy of your love and existence. Don't let this guy ruin the rest of your life. Your young and have a whole lifetime ahead of you. He was just trying to satisfy his own needs with no regard for you or yours. Go ahead and fill up your time with constructive activities that don't include anything to do with him and when he does float through your mind don't throw him a lifesaver let him float on by. (Easier said than done I know-this is great therapy for me too-thanks for inadvertantly making me look into my own life)
Lyn you'll get through this-for what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Michele

December 12, 2001
4:26 pm
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lyn
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hey jb489 (aka Michele),

You're post was so inspiring. I'm glad that you could find some good in my thread. I am at my 6th day without talking to the ex again and if you remember i gave in on the 6th day the last time and called. Well not this time i'm gonna make it past this day and that will be one more day that i have overcome his hold on me.
The more i part from him the more i realize how mean and abusive he was to me. He never ever took me out and he never had anything nice to say either. Don't think i don't think about him, but i'm SLOWLY, VERY SLOWLY started to realize there's more to life than that idiot.
Maybe it's the med's who knows..I started Welbutrin SR last week and i do feel definately less depressed than i was.. I think it's also helping my compulsions (ex. calling him). Although my friends and family think it's just because i'm working hard to not give in it's not just the meds. so that makes me feel good.
The ex was truly a drug for me and not matter how hard it was for me to rid myself of this drug it was a lot easier to keep using. I'm starting to learn that this drug (the ex) has absolutely no advantages he doesn't even make me feel good, he's just a bother...
I hope I will continue on this path of healing. I am in therapy and trying to explore how i let myself get to this point. But i think it's only up from here....21 days 21!!!

December 12, 2001
7:00 pm
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jb489
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Well Lyn,
I'm glad I inspired you but unfortunately I didn't take my own advice regarding the 21 days I made it to 10 yet I believe I would have made it longer if I didn't do such a stupid thing. I called the girl he cheated on me with and she told me so much that just completely tore me up inside. I called him later that evening (last night actually) and never let on what I had known. Instead I spoke of concern for his well being. Today was complete hell, not only because I just kept beating myself up but I also was up most of the night with a sick child and thinking, thinking and thinking again (add some tears as well) I called him when I got home from work and left a message. He called me right back (surprisingly since he had completely stopped calling me) I told him calmly what I had done and he didn't deny anything but said he did feel so bad and detached from himself that he can't understand why I would still be in love with him. Ya see John were the best of friends and became soulmates. We had a true love one I never had before (we both were married before but never in love truly with those spouses) I don't know it is just so hard to let go but I know that I have to fight my urges again and go forward. I really hate the fact that Christmas is so close-if I didn't have kids I would not celebrate at all. The fact that I do have kids makes me realize that I can't be selfish and they need me. Sorry to have unloaded on you.
Keep up the great work 15 more days to go--I know you can do it!!! Call me when you want to call him. Here's my email that's where I'll convey my phone # to you if you want to call.
[email protected]
Talk to you soon-Michele

December 13, 2001
2:45 pm
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strengthcourageandwisdom
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Hi Lyn,
I don't come here as often as the others, but I am getting to know them, all, Ladeska speaks with the wisdom of ages, of understanding. You are still a babe in so many ways, some of it is probably truly too rich for you. It is like trying to feed an infant, filet mignon, and Dom perignon. It is just too soon. But one day the majestic woman that you have every right to be , will emerge from beneath those baby blankets, then you should re-read what Ladeska is trying to tell you, about why we accept less than optimal for ourselves. If someone actually walked up to us and said , Hi, my name is
Bob, I am going to do somethings that look and feel like I love you, but I am also going to do a whole LOT things that look and feel like I am trying to murder your soul, and I would like for you to allow that" YOU WOULD DECLINE THAT OFFER ON THE SPOT. However, when someone actually does that to us, we don't say "No thank you, I think I'll pass."
But you will , one day you will have enough, and you will recognize BOB and all his little cohorts ,a mile way. And because of who you love (YOURSELF) you will eat at another table. Till then, ....we are here.

December 14, 2001
6:34 am
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gypsygirl
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I had a crush on a guy named Bob once!
But I got over it

December 14, 2001
12:19 pm
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Joanne
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Hi Lyn,

I can really relate to what you are going through, I am current going through the exact same thing, I was with him for 6 years and now he wants more freedom. The only difference here it that I am 40 years old and should know better. But I got caught up in his charming trap too. Believing the lies and all the I loves yous, the we will be together forever bull. I am trying to hold back phoning also but it takes everything in my power not to. I have made it to 9 days, then I phoned. He invited me over, stupid me I went thinking there was still something there, he used me for sex. I feel awful now but I can`t help it I needed the fix too. But its a relationship that has to stop for what little sanity that I have left.

December 14, 2001
1:38 pm
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Molly
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I swear, one of these days we women are going to get it. Daddy said a man will always try, but it is up to the woman to say no. Hubby says a woman is smarter than a man because she knows when, or if, he is going to get laid, when he just tries to get laid. They can get fast food, or go to a restaurant, they can use a laundry, but getting some of the good stuff , well its just alot easier to call the good ole dependable, one that they know if they do this or that, they will be able to satisfy their needs. They usually don't even have to buy dinner, or rent a hotel room, or be charming for more than 15 minuets, no effort what so ever, wham bam, thank you mam, and out the door we go feeling used, empty, ugly and yada yada yada. They know us better than we know our selves, one of these days we are going to regain our power, and make real demands before we give them what they want, at least make them earn it. I fell for it more than once with my Sybil, when we were seperated, it was romantic, we had been apart just long enough for me to, forget and get dolled up and run to the arms of my man, who has seen the light, right? What I was to blind to see, was that his date had fallen through, but he knew what to do and say, right ? We just have to be smarter, stronger, and get out of fantasy land. Just friggin pisses me off, ya know. Lessons, lessons, lessons.

December 14, 2001
2:45 pm
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mari
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Hi Lyn. This is the first time I have ever read your thread and I felt like I was "looking" into a mirror. I was with a completely selfish man for 9 years. I was 22 when we started our relationship and wasted NINE YEARS on this guy. I know it is soooo hard not to call or contact him, but I can tell you from experience, it WILL get easier. I took Molly's advice and didn't call or have contact with my ex for 21 days, and you know what? That has turned into 3 months! I rarely even think of him anymore. I NEVER thought that would happen. I hear things about him every once in a while from mutual friends and he's doing very bad. He's a drug addict and has started using again, stealing from his family members again. He tried calling me when his family FINALLY cut off contact with him and I told him that he'd burned his last bridge and not to ever contact me again. It was hard for me to do, but I can tell you, I am so much more lighthearted now. You'll be surprised at how much your life improves once you get rid of the s*@t that bogs you down. You are only 23 years old. Please don't waste some of the best years and times of your life on a complete loser. I am currently alone at 31. All of my friends are married with children or in serious relationships. Still, I am extremely happy with my life. I answer to no one but myself. You have your whole life ahead of you. Be on your own for a while. (Self confidence and self reliance make you much more attractive to INTELLIGENT, WORTH-WHILE men). I am finally finding that out. Also, on kind of a funny note, most of my married friends are quite jealous of my care-free lifestyle and always tell me so! So Lyn, believe me, this will get easier. You will come out of it with wisdom. And you may not believe it now, because I didn't when my friends told me the same thing, but there WILL come a time when you say to yourself, "Why did I waste the energy on him? What did I ever see in him?" This will happen. Hang in there, sister! You can do it!

December 14, 2001
4:01 pm
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artist 2
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Well, women are capable of using men too... in fact the opposite of your story is happening with my ole reliable (ex three years ago)... I know how he is, what he likes, he knows what I like, etc. I know how to dress to let him know. I'll get what I want from him tonight, he'll worry about using me, we'll both be guilty and revel together in the guilt... I'm going to initiate things be beginning a conversation about how I feel guilty about sex with him, he'll agree, then we'll have sex afterwards. Sounds like a game? It is... in the meantime we're both getting what we need right now - physical closeness, affection... it could go on between us for quite a while in the future... Thing is, I just can't leave him alone because he knows what I like, and retraining someone is difficult... Do I sound like a cold-hearted bi***?

December 14, 2001
4:47 pm
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mari
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artist 2,
I don't think you're a cold-hearted b****. It sounds to me like your ex knows exactly what's going on. It doesn't sound like you are abusive towards him like lyn's ex is towards her. Also, I'm pretty confident that he's not feeling one iota of guilt for "using" you since you are doing the same thing. It reminds me of what my ex used to say to me, "I never held a gun to your head." And he didn't. I loved having sex with him (he was terrific in bed and knew exactly what I liked without me saying a word). So no, you're not cold-hearted, far from it. You're getting something you need and want from someone who knows exactly what you're doing.

December 14, 2001
5:01 pm
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artist 2
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Thanks for the support Mari.

December 14, 2001
5:21 pm
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strengthcourageandwisdom
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Hey Molly,
Brief story , of how we never learn, my sister, gorgeous sexy girl, dated a guy in college, he wanted to get married as soon as they both finished, Wedding planning already in infant stages, she gets pregnant, , his story- let's get married after the baby is born. She gets job, she waits, he keeps trying the college thing, then starts chasing some pipe dream of pro-football all around the country(too short, too slow). Meanwhile sister working two jobs now, new baby. Then he gives up the dream, becomes a policeman (small hicktown) moves up quickly (charm, physique,and a little college) can get you far in small town.) Gets a new female Partner, , you guessed it , A woman with a gun , cruising at night is just way more , sexy than , your tired girlfriend with a baby on her hip. He leaves, my sister, with a bunch of broken promises. But she hangs around for a couple of years as booty call, when he decides to grace her and the baby. Both me and my father try to convince her to come away from that no future town, and come live with us, I was in PHX , and my Dad, owns a couple of business, including a daycare, in Ohio. He just wants her to go back to school.
IN exasperation... my Dad, (once a player, always a player,)tells, her , "Of course he comes back , I have over a hundred suits in my closet, and I have no intention of giving any one of them away, as long as I can still get IN them, _THEY ARE MINE........"
He looked directly at my sister and told her you are just "AN OLD SUIT"
She is in full denial as to why she is staying there, something ,about getting back in school. But the truth is she can't work , go to school , and pay for daycare, etc....
She has yet to forgive my Dad for what he said, but one day when she is older, she will get it. I DO. LADY YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEY THINK.....

December 14, 2001
5:29 pm
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gingerleigh
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Hey Lyn, what's up? What day you on now?

December 14, 2001
5:38 pm
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artist 2
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How do they think?

December 14, 2001
6:19 pm
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strengthcourageandwisdom
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artist2, just because you f&*^% doesn't mean they love you,
it means just that.
ANd if you want to be one of their old suits , they will take you out and wear every now and then, just like all the others.
The only way you get out of the closets, is if someone else
(the wife, or new girl) comes in and throws you out. Other than that ,you can stay forever, he will never discard you, why should he, you are his , and he can still get in to you sometimes....
But it doesn't mean he loves you,
I once ask my brother why didn't guys just move on, when they didn't like someone, like woman do(we kick a guy to the curb the minute we don't like them anymore)...

and he told me
if they will still have sex with you, why would he move on.
I asked him why do men cheat on women, and he said , "more is always better", it is up to the woman to say "NO more', or get out, the man will never be motivated to stop
having sex with a female who is willing. If men rape women
for sex, (which means sex literally with someone who hates you) , what would make you think down, "SEX on a platter,with a kiss and a smile"
I'm with Molly we have got to quit giving ourselves that way, to people who totally don't deserve it.

December 15, 2001
4:50 pm
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Hi Lyn,

I just wanted to know if you were living with your boyfriend. And if so did he go out alot without you and did he want a very independent lifestyle. My boyfriend lived with me for six years, I paid for everything because according to him I had to anyways because I have two children 15 and 11. Once in awhile he would give $100.00 or so but nothing that I could really count on. Our relationship has been an on and off relationship for six years. He would always leave and then he would eventually come back. Who knows where he's been or with whom while we were apart. He would go out every second day to the bar to so call have a beer with his buddies and end up coming home at 3 or 4am. Of course he would want sex because he was feeling no pain being drunk and stoned. I would usually give into him because that would be about the only time that I would be able to get sex. Every other 2nd day he would come home early and sleep because he was tired from coming home late the night before and having to get up early to go to work to next day. I was the foolish one that would call him to make sure he would get up. This time I think the split is a permanent one, he now has his own appartement complexe (one of two that he as aquired since he has been with me along with a boat and 2 cars). When I asked him to help me out to pay a few bills because I was broke, he said why should I pay here when I can go and live and my place for free. The arguement went on from there, he said that I was starting to complain to much, all I wanted was for him to spend abit more time with me instead of going to the bar. He told me that he wanted a bit more freedom which for sure I couldn't give him because he had already enough. Then I said you might as well just leave then, and guess what he did. I the foolish one called him 9 days later, now after 6 years he tells me that he love his freedom because he doesn't have to call me to tell where is going or where he's been. He also told me that he doesn't love me anymore just as a good friend. After saying that he asked me to go over. I didn't go. I am very pleased that I have some how stumbles on the chat because the comment and advise that everyone is giving is just fantastic. I am now going to try the 21 days. Thanks for all the advise and the encouragement.

Joanne

December 17, 2001
1:03 pm
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Molly
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Why buy the cow, when milk is so cheap? that was another of dad's sayings. Its all so true.

We tossed all the old mating rituals when we started burning our bra's and taking the pill. Guess we want it all, and it doesn't work that way, so we are discovering. Marriage isn't what it used to be, families aren't what they used to be, traditions have gone in the toilet for the most part, because of the changes, and I guess the best we can do sometimes is find shelter in the storm, like ARTIST has figured, no one gets hurt right?
Its amazing how that 21 days works isn't it?

December 18, 2001
7:58 am
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artist 2
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So, let's all just fuc**** forget the forever after and true love.

I know just because he has sex with me doesn't mean he loves me. I know I'm doing the same thing. But, I don't feel bad about it. It feels GREAT getting what I need for a change...

December 18, 2001
10:29 am
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strengthcourageandwisdom
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I guess each relationship should be evaluated ,by something a little more basic,
Not on how THEY feel,
But how YOU feel
Do I really feel good about myself, after I have been with this person?.
Does my pride, self-esteem, and love for myself take a total
nose-dive after I talk(have sex or whatever you do with them) to this person.?
These are pretty easy questions and may get you to your answer a lot sooner than all the other stuff.
And I think it holds true with friends and relatives as well.

December 18, 2001
10:50 am
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artist 2
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Wonderful! That's it !

On one post I've put that I need to break it off, on another I put that it's the best sex I've had in a while, on another, I've put that he's my best friend... IT'S ALL TRUE AND I'M SO CONFUSED. I don't know really what's the best thing. I put out these posts so I can see it in writing and maybe it will help me to figure out how I feel and what I should do - if anything.

December 18, 2001
11:06 am
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mari
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Artist2, I know just what you're saying. All that was true for my situation as well. Except at first I didn't feel bad about just having sex. It's what I wanted too. But then one morning, and I still remember the exact morning, I woke up, looked at him and thought, "Oh shit, I'm in love with this guy." It was all down hill from there, because he wasn't in love. And, wow, that post from strengthcourageandwisdom. EVERYTHING took a nosedive when I had sex with him. Artist2, I'm not sure what you should do. I can only tell you in my case, he finally did something that pissed me off and disgusted me so bad, that was it. I'd had enough. And I cut him out of my life. I generally feel much better, but there are times I still miss him desperately. (Usually at night) I get through it though. Artist2, has this person pissed you off to the point that you have no desire to ever lay eyes on him again? If he does something like that, it really helps!

December 18, 2001
11:57 am
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artist 2
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No he hasn't! and that's the problem. He's a prince! he's a really nice, clean guy, religious, spiritual, healthy... man, maybe I should be the one to do something really shitty to him. ARGH!!! I don't know what to do. Time to consult the I Ching, or the runes.

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