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I N S T R U C T I O N S F O R L I F E
March 13, 2000
7:30 am
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hazza
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Hi Guys,
I won't pretend to have read evey word of this thread but i scanned it so forgive me if this has already been said,
but.
Broc says that co-dep people are no longer attracted to each other once healthy?
I dispute this. sometimes the co-dep person has a healthy and not healthy part of them at the same time. If 2 people get healthy together, they find other things about each other that they still love even though the whole balance of the reltaionship changes. They both have to get healthy alone, sure but if the timing works out right they can still be "new" people and still gel but in a healthy way. my relationship has changed so much but becuase both me and my B/F have made personal changes alone, we are finding a new level of being together that is so different to how we were before but still love each other. do you see what i mean.
I think that sometimes 2 people can "come out the other side" of co=dependency and still be compable people.

I think you are talking about people who have a sex/relationship addiction more than co-dep.
If a relationship is co-dep becuase you are addicted just to sex or having a relationship then sure, when you are "out " of the addicted cycle you may find that you have little else in common. But there is a great diffrence between casual dating relationships that are between co-dep personalitys, which maybe are based on sex, to a marriage or longer term relationship that is co-dep, becuase in the long term relationships, people are together for more solid reasons anyway, they already have more in common but the co-dep nature of themselves screws this up in the end. just my thoughts i hope you get what i mean!
hazza

March 13, 2000
7:43 am
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janes
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Sure thing...and how are YOU. I have missed you Hazza.

Yes I agree with what you have said..about codep vs love/relationship.sex addiction. The "new level" you and your b/f have found...is it more satisfying...for want of a better word...is it a "deeper" relationship or "just" (not difinitive enough) more healthy.

The thing about long term committment between codeps is that with my hsb. and I it was "lust " at first sight...he reminided me of my first great "screwed up ) love. But then I loved him on his own. We married and are still together.. decades in fact. No abuse.. but I am def. codep. Is he? Probly. Broc questions this relationship..as he should but.. I took vows which are imiprotant and mostly I need to work on me again. Screwed up....yes and no. I am such a great enabler it is a problem. but I am working on it all.

March 13, 2000
1:20 pm
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BROC
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Janes,

Let me see if I am hearing you regarding my question, then I will tell you my reason for asking it, ok?

I asked you that if Shannon woke up tomorrow and started living her life by the good book, big 10 etc., would that be enough for her to completely change her life so that she wouldn't keep doing the things she is doing, like hooking up with unavailable men that that use her, etc.

What I understood you to tell me in response to my question was that if Shannon did turn towards God/Jesus and the big 10 that it would HELP inprove her life, BUT BUT BUT BUT she would DEFINITELY need counseling and a good support system to help her deal with the "issues" that cause her dysfunctional behaviors such as codependency(control manipulation). After all, just going to church doesn't do ANYTHING for your codependency. Do I have that right? The good book would help, BUT would not cure her ill unless she went into therapy.

B-

March 13, 2000
7:40 pm
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janes
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God helps those who help themselves. Now I think you want me to tell you that god will do it ALL for Shannon and then everything will be okay. There are people who will tell you that and then when the Shannon's of the world do not immediately improve...it's God's fault.

there is this thing called free will..you get to choose... follow god or not follow god. It's up to you it's up to Shanon.. Just like you and I tell people that you can't change your mate...or griend... Goad already knows you aren't gonna change til you are ready so he doesn't mess around tripping you up or nagging or anything...He just waits..for us...to ome to our senses.

Maybe it Shannon went to chruch and followed the "ggodly path setc etc etc etc she would change. some people do..My old babysitter claimed she quit smoking by praying...nothin else. That's cool.

It boils down to belieivng and faith. god can and does move mountaiins but Broc..you and I are the kind of people that will believe that and then move the damn thing ourselves...with a shovel.

IT ALL DEPENDS. If shannon wanted to change she could be come hari krishna..and change. I personnaly belieive in the God/Jesus thing and it gives me comfort and a sense of the right things to do.

One of my best friends is totally opposite. we were raised in the same type church...but... we didn't turn out the same. each individual is..each individual..just like a counselor you love is one I hate... so church might be for me and not for you.

There are miracles...maybe shannon could be one...do you thing she would want one.?

If Shannon woke up tomorrow and read every book you have read, started counseling and a good group...can you say for sure THAT would help her? No. But it might. IT all depends on Shannon. and I cannot belieive that her life would not be at least somewhat better with the big 10 and god.
(and a goodcousnselor and a slap upside the head) oops sorry.

Bad day. I lost $100., Van window borke big time, truck still not fixed...need three cars to do our day..have one. bullshit all around.

j-

March 14, 2000
12:06 am
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winter001
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sure, faith, hope and love, i think that every person, no i know that every person I know is looking for those 3 things, more than anything else in the world. - but i really believe that we can not class co-dep as being bad as breaking rules or as moraly wrong. it may be hurtfull to to ourselves, but i think the fact that it is something we learn as babies, something that is as much a part of us as the way in which we speak, it defines us to a large degree it speaks of our past (and only with hugh effort can we change it, how many times have i heard that!) but by the idea that living a life according to God we can heal ourselves, we have to make the assumption that we have become this way by not living by god's rules. i don't dispute the fact that we have all strayed because of the way that we are, but are you co-dep because of the things you did as a co-dep? of course not. lets be realistic, the world, everythign around us, and even the bible has relationships and sentiments that could be interpreted as co-dependency. it also has plages floods and other disasters, sure god gives us rules to live by, and then he sends us on our way, to find a life for ourselves, by his rules, but with our own initiative and ambition and creativity - as you said janes, god helps those who help themselves - to solve somethings, sometimes it might help to go back to god for strength and direction, but it's still up to the individual to to help themselves, especialy with co-dependency.

March 14, 2000
7:31 am
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janes
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Esp with all probs. I could let myself be real de[ressed over losing the money I did but instead trusted God and last night after I posted....I got $150. Enough to keep the wolf from the door until I get paid.

Thanks winter. I liked your post

and Broc. I like the challenge you present. You make me think...even when I don't wanna. Much like my best friend who is a pscho-therapist and doesn't let me get away with anything.

See ya

March 15, 2000
2:59 pm
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BROC
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Janes,

Guess I am just being air-headed, but still unsure as to where you stand.

This is the question I propose:

Do you think that Shannon, with the boat load of issues she has: codependency, control, manipulation,HUGE abandonment fears, low morals and values (sleeping with my best friend while married while child in her belly), chain smoking, 33 years old acting like shes 21, party 2-3 nights a week as if she were 21 (bars), jumping from rel. to rel. not having taken anytime to reflect and grow (literally just a few weeks from one to the next, whether its coming out of four years with me, or 10 with the prior beau), etc.

With all this shit, it is possible that just stopping and turning your life over to God and living by his rules would be enough to heal the wounds she has (cod., etc.) OR would that just help her, but she would DEFINITELY need a few years with a good therapist and support group?

WOULD THE GOOD BOOK BE ENOUGH, OR WOULD IT BE AN ABSOLUTE FUCKING NECESSITY FOR HER TO HAVE A SIT DOWN WITH A GOOD THEREPAIST FOR A FEW YEARS AND A GOOD SUPPORT GROUP?

b-

March 16, 2000
7:46 am
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janes
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Broc....are you just baiting the poor little ole christian woman?

I THINK SHE NEEDS BOTH. IF SHE HAD ANY BRAINS OR GUMPTION AT ALL IT COULD ONLY TAKE THE GOOD BOOK.. BUT ROM WHAT YOU HAVE SAID SHE NOT ONLY NEEDS GOD SHE NEEDS ABOUT 10000 GAZILLION YEARS OF THERAPY AND SUPPORT GROUPS TO EVEN GET STARTED.

But first she has to want to change. God will right now forgive every one of her low soen dirty little big horrendous sins that she has perpetrated on you and others. Change her life style...God would support her on that butSHE HAS TO CHANGE not God. He is always the same. It's Shannon that has to change.

She needs every intervention there is. She could do it with God alone...He does still work miracles...but will she? you know she won't. she's too "happy in her misery"

so both both both.

March 16, 2000
7:08 pm
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BROC
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Janes,

There is a method to my madness. I am examining what peoples thoughts are regarding how much they think our higher power can do for them in relation to therapy.

I have done this before, and now it was your turn. Just learning. Didn't mean to fluster ya'!?

I am the type of person that doesn't just believe there is one answer, necessarily, for a certain problem. I fully believe you need both. I don't believe God will zap you into a healthy person. I don't believe he will take away your issues simply by praying to him, or even turning your entire life over in total devotion to him.

I believe it first starts, like you, with her wanting to change. Actually, I believe it STARTS with awarness that something is wrong in the first place, then you have to decide if you want to pursue the path (change). Make sense?

Then, during the process of change, you need to use your higher power for strength, hope, guidance, and the like.

This is what I have come to learn as the only way out of the shit.

But, I still don't have the answer I am looking for with you. You say both both both, but then in the next breath say that she could do it with god alone if she wanted too. Thats what makes me curious.

Lets say shannon wanted to change. She realized her shit, and wanted out. HOW IS IT THAT WITH GODS HELP ALONE SHE COULD CHANGE HER LIFE FOR THE BETTER, INCLUDING FINDING OUT HER ISSUES, AND ELIMINATING THEM AS WE ARE HERE!?

Stop for a second and re-read my question. I think you are missing my point.

I asked you a question...your thoughts on whether Shannon (or hell, anyone LIKE her) could get healthy and healed just by turning her life over to god and the good book, OR, and a big OR, if it would take counseling TOO!

You answered IF SHE HAD ANY BRAINS OR GUMPTION AT ALL IT COULD ONLY TAKE THE GOOD BOOK.. & She could do it with God alone...He does still work miracles...but then said IT WOULD TKE BOTH BOTH BOTH.

So janes, bottom line. Lets make this real simple.

1. Do you think its possible that she could avoid therapy, support groups, book reading, etc. and just do it via the lord and the bible,

or,

2. would she have to definitely definitely definitely need therapy, groups, etc. including with the lord and bible.

One, or two? What do YOU think?

(And, you have mentioned miracles several times. Lets leave that option out. Those rarely happen and if they do I find it hard to believe God would use it on her.)

Lets use what is more likely to happen instead of factoring in a huge intangible such as a miracle.

B-

March 16, 2000
7:16 pm
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janes
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OOOOOOHHHHH. Let's look at forgiving her.

All I know of Shannon is what is filtered through you.
So from what you have said

1) No
2) Yes

for someone else it might be different.
I choose to err on the side of caution and tell everyone they need a good therpist and a support group. Personally I think God should be first but most everyone has this "thing " about God...

AMD for your question in caps....it is because God is God. He is bigger than all the authors you have read. He knows it all and guides us in weird ways even screwed up ladies like Shannon. Weirder things have happened. He takes really bad things and makes them make us better and more aware. He knows the number of hairs Not hares) on your head and the sparrows that fall. If little birds are important to Him...so are you.

Just don't EVER count out God alone.

j-

March 16, 2000
7:59 pm
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BROC
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You do make me chuckle!

Of course I forgive her, and the rest of them. After all, I broke her heart many many times.

I know she is sick, confused, and searching, hoping to find someone to love her.

But still, with you, I wonder. How do you think God could help someone erase their issues in order to change thier lives, like we are here, using this site, groups, therapy, etc.

That just boggles my mind. Like I have said, I believe God is necessary to give us hope, strength, etc. Hell, my therpaist is a devote christian. But she tells me that it is up to US to see the need and up to US to change ourselves. We can change our lives by turning them over to God, but he can't erase our own issues that make us who we are. Only we can do that. Like that saying goes. He "helps" those that "help" themselves. Doesn't that mean that it is us that realizes the problem, and it is us that has to get help via books, therepay etc. and while doing that he will help us stick it out, give us faith and hope that it will work out if we don't quit?

B-

March 17, 2000
7:02 am
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janes
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Yes...I do honestly think that God COULD erase issues. (a sharp blow to the head possibly) if we just the "faith contained in a grain of mustard seed", "He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins" "Casting all your cares upon Him for he cares for you" etc. etc.

My faith is beyond me wondering HOW God could do it. I KNOW that He CAN..is He gonna?...no cuz that's where the free will comes in. He lets us screw up...and then when we are at the bottom we are much more open to letting Him (andHis Son) in to do the cleansing.
HOW could he do it ...by magic..God magic. since he just SPOKE and created this whole world and everything in in it including us (and we are created in His image) He COULD just SPEAK and take away my anxieity, frustrations (bonks on heads of those I don't approve of) and cares. But...He leaves my life up to me.

God is not just necessary to give us hope and strength. I TAKE THOSE THINGS from Him.

Your therpaist is right it is up to us to see the need to change. And to then do the changing. God could change us if He were anything but the kind of God He is. It is up to us. He will help us if we help our selves.
Hope and peace and rest and FORGIVENESS and strength are all available.
But I do just what you do...therapy and me and everything else is first and God is relegated to me saying He could do everything...and I rely on just me. Maybe the total issue is trust.

But again

-He can do anything..but gives us free will

-He won't (I didn't say can't) erase issues as they are often a product of our sin that we need to deal with-God is not an enabler-we all get to take our own hard knocks.

-Yes we need to see the problems and take steps to fix them. Therapy, books etc. But they are tools. God is the author of all books and tools etc.

-Oh Ye of little Faith.

-I do believe there are a few, VERY FEW- people who can find God and find "the cure". Not that their issues "go away" but some poeple can do it. I think they have a faith a don't have, a trust I don't quite grasp yet, a letting go to let God do the healing necessary.

-Those peole are not you and I...we question to much, second guess, plan, etcetcetcetcetc. our brains are to busy

There...are you confounded enough yet?

I KNOW god could CURE anyone but that He doesn't operate that way. It's just something I know. Do I know HOW ...NO.
I KNOW He is ALL Powerful yet lets us screw up on our own and come to Him on our own

SOooooooo..that gives therapists and authors etc a chance to work.

I think you still have not forgiven Shannon and your idiot fiends.

Easy to say ... VERY HARD TO DO!!!!

LATER.

j-

March 17, 2000
1:44 pm
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BROC
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Don't know what gives you that impression about me not forgiving them. I haven't forgotton nor will I ever. But I forgive them.

Like I said before, Shannon never hurt me...it was always me hurting her. So, in a way I can't say anyting about her sleeping with my best friend (four months after our breakup, although that is still NO excuse to do what she/he did. Especially cuz he was married with child on way, but we know it was cuz of their sickness they did that.... you know, like my counselor says: forgive them for then know not what they do, just like Jesus said on the cross) Shannon is a rel. addict, and Jim is a sex addict, like I am and am recovering from. They just addicted out their addictions again. No suprise there, although I thought my rel. with both of them would have been enough for them not too! Gee, isn't addiction great?!?!?!?!?

Anyway, I do understand what your talking about. yes, I do believe God has the power to do anyting. Will he for Shannon, Jim, NO! Like you said, he gives us life, and lets us go. We can't just go out and live wrecklessly and expect life to work out. So, when we hit our own bottoms and get into thterapy to figure out what went wrong, we find out what went wrong, and how we need to look to our own higher power for guidance, strenght, and hope. But first, we have to help ourselves, by way of awareness and willingess to change. Then he will help us, but not until then. He won't enable us to keep fucking up over and over. So, like you, I think that God will just watch Shannon, and Jim, and the like until they look back and ask for help.

B-

March 19, 2000
9:33 am
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Hey Guys,
Just want to say, Janes, you sound so similar to me, controlling mother and all that, so common in co-dep Does anyone here with co-dep have a healthy uncontrooling mother? if so please raise your hand!

okay RELIGION!!!!
right i am agnostic, but raised Pythagorean (don't ask!) so i have done MUCH research on early Christian church becuase much of it came from earlier faiths (like Pythagoreanism!) blow me down with what i found out. Early christians were Gnostic - they believed that each person makes their own personal connection with God, Jesus was a MORTAl man, resurection was when the "dead" or lost souls found the truth of God and where "raise from the dead" ie enlightened. This was always a metaphor to early Christians. SO as few centuries later and the organised church forms WHY????? this is it folks! the organised church was a continuation of the roman empire, too many Gnostic christians were popping up and the roman empire was losing its power big time, half of all its folks were abandoning the old roman gods and shifting to GOD! they had now no choice but to absorb the christian church. They then changed the scripture accordingly, loads of old stuff was left out (until we found it again this century - Dead sea scrolls etc) they turned metaphors around and made them read like true events and introduced GUILT as the best control mechanism ever! suddenly the only was you could know God was through a heirachy or priests who spoke in foreign language to you and kept you illiterate so you could never know the wisdom that MANKIND has compiled explaining their faith about GOD (for example the Bible).

But all religions stem from a common source, they all show us the Human condition of man wanting to behave better than the animal part of his make up. So all relgions have various codes of conduct and morals. So although not Christian, i have been brought up with similar morals as have many other faiths. we see faith and politics as seperate now, but most of the time in the past, new faiths where closely intertwined with political struggles. To build a heaven on earth, would be a place for your own people, more political than anything else.

So bottom line is Janes is so right, Morals are important, forget guilt, i personally do not subscribe to Guilt in faith, that is just mediaeval crowd control, but how you feel at the end of the day, can you hold your own head up high? As a pythagorean would ask him/herself each evening
" where have i failed today? what have i left undone? what could i have done better?" we are all responsible for our own actions, if we want the world a better place, we know where to start - with ourselves!
Peace to all, sorry for my rant!
Hazza

March 19, 2000
10:53 am
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VRJ
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Hey BROC, You said,"(And, you have mentioned miracles several times. Lets leave that option out. Those rarely happen and if they do I find it hard to believe God would use it on her.) " Why is it so hard to believe? Isn't she worthy? She is just as much a child of God and just as loved as anyone else. As you can guess, I disagree and know that God can and will give miracles when he wants to. But, as Janes said "God is not an enabler'. And we learn so much more by going through the pain and coming out the other side. And I also disagree that miracles rarely happen. They happen every day. Look around, really look. Peace.

March 19, 2000
1:07 pm
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Yes vrj I also believe miracles happen each and every day...But in this modern age ofsuper scientific discoveries (which they truly are) a little girl gaining back kidney funtion when Doc's at a top drawer hosp. say "no way" isn't as obvious as waking on water or curing Shannon in the blink of an eye.

Hazza..I find your research very interesting. In my faith we believe that Jesus is God come to earth as a mortal to take all of our sins on Him at the Cross of Calvary so we may just believe and then join Him in Heaven. I also belieive the Bible is the infallible Word of God written by men INSPIRED by God. I know through my faith that I have a HOME in Heaven someday. And I am so excited that someday all these things I just can't fathom will be made clear and I can KNOW the things I cannot know here on earth.

I really like the idea (very Quaker) of checking at the end of each day. Sort of like a spiritual reality check. But not a guilt thing. Guilt seems to me to be taking the responsibility for problems that are not ours.

Bummer night last night. Teenage boys caught at a beer party. Whew....was my heart beating fast after the cops called. Prayer got me through that one and God did answer my pprayer about the 18 year old being "not" involved. He at least was not there when the cops came and HAD NOT been drinking. The sixteen year old had and spent some time in the back of the squad car...(sweating... I hope) Tough thing is the 18 year old doesn't seem to "get it" that he is considered and adult and has to be more responsible. I get so tired of saying the same silly things over and over again. People all say "how nice" my kids are (and they really are nice people....SO WHY DO I FEEL SO NUTZ WHEN THEY ACT THEIR AGE AND DO STUPID THINGS!!!!! (gotta let go gotta let go gotta let go)

nuff.
j-

Hey..is it time to start a new thread?
Instructions for Life II?

March 20, 2000
12:28 am
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BROC
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VRJ,

Somehow I knew you would be along. I know you and rel. to God.

Yes, she is worthy, yadda yadda yadda. I just meant that I TRULEY believe in my heart that when it comes down too it, God is going to help the kidney patient over a woman that REPEATEDLY acts out her addiction to men NO MATTER who it hurts, no matter how many times she does it. She does not attend church, and absolutely does not follow any of the rules God laid down. Neither did I, and I paid. They continue (Shannon & Jim, and now, a year later, are STILL IN THE SAME spot they were in a year ago. Jim went through our friendship to have a lay while he got out of his marriage, then when SHannon raged on him the EXACT way she did to me over and over (stupid SOB didn't listen to my warnings, he told everyone she was a nice girl and it was all me, go figure?)he ditched her and has a new gf, while shannon is single, once again, crying in her pillow about how men are dogs, etc.

Yes, all she has to do is ask for forgiveness. But just as I did, she believes in God but doesn't PRACTICE it. No prayers, no church, no living your life by his rules. Just living her life as she always has, wrecklessly.

So, no VRJ, I don't believe he would. UNLESS she starts it herself. Unless she wakes the fuck up as I did. I believe I was a miracle, but God wasn't about to DO ALL THE WORK beginning to end. HE DOESN'T ON ANYONE. HE HELPS THOSE THAT HELP THEMSELVES! HE WON'T WAND HIS HAND AND MAKE IT ALL DISAPPEAR FOR HER UNTIL SHE ROLLS UP HER SLEVES AND DOES IT FOR HERSELF, FIRST.

b-

March 20, 2000
4:13 pm
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VRJ
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Yes BROC I agree. See what I said about God not being an enabler. But you never truly know what is going on in a person's life or heart, only your own, and often we don't even stop to figure ourselves out. It's like the story of the angels who needed a place to stay for the night and stopped at a wealthy couple's house. They were reluctant to let them stay but finally said they could sleep in the cellar. During the night, the older angel fixed a hole in the cellar wall and the next day they left. That night they stopped a the house of a poor couple who welcomed them in and gave them their own bed to sleep in. In the morning, as the angels were leaving, they found the couple's only cow and sole source of milk dead. The young angel said to the old angel," Why did you fix the hole in the wall at the house of those people last night. They weren't very nice to us, yet you let this wonderful couple's cow die?" The older angel said, "Those people yesterday stored their money in that hole and now they won't be able to find it, and last night, the angel of death came for the old woman but I talked him into taking the cow instead. Things aren't always as they seem." And God works in mysterious ways. And Shannon's time will come. Who do you think will wake her up when the time is right? I agree with most of what you say and most of the advice you give and even the way you give it. I know you're frustrated when people just 'don't get it' but try to let Shannon go. Wouldn't it have been nice if you had woken up ten years ago. But you weren't ready were you? Peace

March 20, 2000
4:35 pm
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Hey BROC, I just read the other post and I can see that God is working his way into you. Making you curious. Making you think. I'd just like to add a little something for you to think about. You said " Much like I am sure God views us. No faces, just millions of spirits moving about trying to find their place (web-site) in life.". We are not faceless. In fact God know each and every one of us individially and in great detail. He is not constricted by time and memory capacity and dysfunctional behaviour. heehee. ""He loves each one of us as if there were only one of us"". So don't be afraid to talk to him and don't be afraid to expect him to hear you and to answer you. In fact, I'll tell you a little secret. I've been praying for youpersonally every day since last June and I can see he's been listening to me. And I hope you aren't offended I've been praying for you. It's not because I felt you were any more in need of it than others. It's just that I've been emailing molly since then and you and her are two of the people who were around when I first came here.

March 20, 2000
6:09 pm
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BROC
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VRJ,

Boy, what can I say. I am honored you have done that for me. Something I haven't done for myself until recently.

As for Molly, don't get me started. I love her to death, but, well, you know. Going back to the same shit is not what you should do, but then again, I understand what can happen when the pressure is too great. Desperate people do desperate things.

As for Shannon, I have let her go. Don't know why you don't think other than me talking about her. I use her as an "example" as I can't use myself because I no longer behave that way. I learn this way. By looking at myself, AND others behavior.

In your second to last post, you said "it will happen in her own time....who did I think will wake her up?" Were you telling me without telling me it will be God doing the waking up of her, as he did all of us? The calling is what I call it. Is that what you meant, or did you mean someone else snapping her to attention?!

B-

March 20, 2000
7:45 pm
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VRJ
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Well, it will be God that wakes her up but he could do it through a person or event. He may try more than once. Or, he may slowly arrange events so that everything adds up and she finally gets it. It may be through her seeing you and your new life. You will probably never know but some little thing you said may have a big influence. Looking back, I can see the things and people he put in my life. One thing, several years ago was a guy said to me 'you should go to church more often'. At the moment, I wondered why he would say that considering he didn't. And I'm sure he doesn't remember saying it. But it stuck with me. And eventually I did, and eventually other people came into my life who influenced my thinking. And people still are. In my case, i believe he sends people. For others it may be different. But it all comes down to the same thing. Give up our pitiful attempts to control life, learn from what we are given and love with all our hearts and souls.

As for 'Molly', she's got at least part of it and if what she's doing is wrong, I believe she will figure it out soon enough. Maybe it's her next lesson. Maybe her SO is learning.

March 21, 2000
7:20 pm
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Getting back to the original topic of this thread:

Do It Anyway Written By Mother Teresa

People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered; Forgive
them anyway.

If you are kind, People may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; Be
kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true
enemies; Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you; Be honest and frank
anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight; Build
anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; Be happy
anyway.

The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; Do good
anyway.

Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough; Give the
world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God; It was never
between you and them anyway.

March 24, 2000
6:21 pm
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VRJ- that's so true...it is between us and God/Jesus. I reread part of a little book I picked up sale...a contemporary woman's discussions with Jesus.

Bottom line..one of them...He just wants us "heart to heart...no other way. We are to love others as He loves us. totally with out looking for what is in it for us.
I love that mother Theresa thing...gonna have to copy it.
J-

March 27, 2000
7:55 am
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Broc...I hope you will come back and talk to me...
j

March 27, 2000
4:25 pm
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Yeah...and I hope you come back soon. I miss ya. 'course...it being spring break and all...life is a bitch.

Do wish I could run away to sunny CA and relax. No worries. But that's all I have. Ah well. Was off internet about a week due to dumping a beer on the keyboard. I am now back.

so How is life in the sunny southwest.
I love to read about NM in one of my fav. authors mystery books.

It is sunny here now...been cloudy all a.m.
Still working on vehicles... the fleet has all gone to hell in a hand basket at once.

Such is life...first your money..then your clothes.

Need to find todays giggle soon.

TTFN
j-

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