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I must be losing my mind
November 18, 1999
4:53 pm
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BROC
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Eve,

Wasn't judging....or was I? I am really trying to learn the difference.

However, my effort is to learn. I am a sponge. But like everyone else I see what I see, and do think before I speak.

I am sticking to my guns. We are who we are until we change. I am not judging JWT. He says he is miserable, I did not. He knows why he is. I didn't have to point that out. I just added the last paragraph so to speak.

Given what he says, he will end up with the same miserys he is facing now. That is all I was saying. That and pointing out how it saddens me to see this. We are to smart for this, or, just maybe, too stupid?

Still waiting for Cici's response.

As far as Jaskid, Eve, I think you missed the point. Passion can be expressed through sex, but without passion to resolve ones own personal issues, so that the rel. can get stronger and survive, won't matter, so then forget it.

We all know how to screw. I don't care how timid or meek you are, you know how.

But the true challenge is this. To look within. To be passionate about you instead of what you have and who you are with. Those things WILL NEVER make or give you happiness....only you.

So, yes, it may be harsh, but like the Bible says.....the truth cuts deep...(the truth is harsh, and it does hurt) We all live by that rule. I don't think me pointing it out is wrong. Quite the opposite. To not give the truth its due is as bad as lying to protect their feelings, as I think you are asking me to do.

Codependecy folks. Evading, escaping, avoiding the truth because of what others will think. That it will hurt their feelings, etc.

Or, maybe I am wrong. I don't think so, as I have learned this over and over.

Anyway, thats my 15 cents worth.

Broc

November 18, 1999
5:36 pm
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eve
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Broc, no, I didn't ask you to lie for the sake of someone elses feelings. And yes, I do think you judge, not without reason and you are probably right, but nevertheless. I am very cautios with everybody who claims to know THE TRUTH about somebody else, because from the outside you can't really know. And in my experience a lot of people get it right sometimes, some even quite often, but I havent met a single person (including me) who gets it absolutely right all the time. But as you do I love learning, and I really like your posts,
Eve
(and I'm not meek at all, had to look that one up in a dictionary!)

November 18, 1999
6:43 pm
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jwt
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Whew...sex must be an "issue" with a lot of us. However, I don't understand much about issues, codependency of the inner child. If it involves acting childish, I'm your man. I know I'm a fool.

I guess I need to clarify the sex thing a little bit. My wife and I went through a sexual rediscovery several years ago. It involved a lot of hot, sweaty, horny sex. A lack of orgasms is not the issue. It just never comes close to the passion I feel when I just kiss my assistant. BROC is right. It is connected to the part of you that gives you a zest for life.

Again, thank all of you for your thoughts. Please keep being honest with me. I don't care if it hurts. It can't hurt worse than what I have been going through.

As for BROC's prediction. You are probably right about taking all of my problems with me if I move. The move itself won't make me happy. I love my current job and I have a lot I still want to accomplish. A move is simply to avoid the pain that will soon become intolerable. I wasn't miserable before all of this happened. I wasn't happy either. I jusst didn't know it could be any different. I do now. I'm sure that problem will follow me too.

I can see from the threads that it will be hard to get to the bottom of my current problem without taking a look for that "inner child" Well Cici, that sounds a lot like dumping my whole life on the table. I've said before that I'm not very proud of myself and I don't think I could look someone in the eyes and tell them everyhting about me. To answer the counseling question, the problem is fear.

Believe it or not, I have a strong religious belief. I question why God has done this. Why fall in love with someone you should and will never have. My only guess is that He wants me to move. Nothing short of something like this would ever cause me to move right now. Maybe He has a purpose to this. Sometimes, I just wish I could see what the purpose was.

November 18, 1999
6:56 pm
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gal-ff
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Passion doesnt really have anything to do with sex. I am very passionate about alot of things in my life. I DO know that as a person gets older and more comfortable with themselves, they are better sexual partners. It takes time to get to the point of being able to ask for everything that you want in bed.(or out of bed). So, thinking like that, I know that sex gets better as you get older.
Broc, I totally agree with what you say about a person taking responsibility for their own actions.
jwt, One minute you are calling your wife a sweet cheerful person and then in a later thread, you make her sound like a slob and lives in her own world. How do you really feel about her? you said everyone deserves a marriage where husband and wife are commited to each other. You won't get that from your assistant. It sounds like she is, in HER way, committed to another man. If she still has you in her life then it doesnt sound like she can commit to ANYONE right now. The relationship that you have with her is VERY unhealthy..The one with your wife isnt any better. You need to start looking at yourself long and hard. best wishes...

November 18, 1999
7:00 pm
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VRJ
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jwt, you do not necessarily have to leave although time to yourself can't hurt. Try to concentrate on yourself - your healing, your weaknesses. You can only change yourself. Forget about changing her - let it go! If you heal yourself, she may begin to heal as well but you can't count on that. Don't. Just count on yourself. If she comes along - great. If not, when you are healed enough and thinking clearly you will know what to do. It's amazing that when you are sick, you think you are thinking clearly, but when you get healthy, you can see just how warped your thinking was. You can do it! But you have to look within yourself, with honesty and openness to change. Give everything else up to God.
And Broc has some good advice, even if he does get a bit harsh at times. They/I don't call him the Hammer for nothing.
In the end, you have to make your own way and find your happiness within yourself so take the advice and experiences that are right for you, and leave the rest. Noone here can save you, nor should they. You have just as much power within yourself as anyone else does.
Prayers

November 18, 1999
7:10 pm
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VRJ
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"""Believe it or not, I have a strong religious belief. I question why God has done this. Why fall in love with
someone you should and will never have. My only guess is that He wants me to move. Nothing short of
something like this would ever cause me to move right now. Maybe He has a purpose to this. Sometimes,
I just wish I could see what the purpose was."""
God did not make you fall in love with your assistant! You chose to. He may be using this time and this situation that you have created to teach you something. He uses what we give him - for good. But it involves free will, you have to cooperate with him. Don't look for the outcomes you want but for his will to be done. Listen to your inner voice. How to tell if it is from God? It will bear fruit! It is so hard to get across to someone how important it is to quit trying to control, look outside themselves for happiness and give up the fear of looking at their own weaknesses when they don't see that they do these things. I think that if you truly want to, and pray about it, it will happen - when you are ready. And you will be so thankful. My prayers are with you. God's will be done!

November 18, 1999
9:04 pm
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everblue
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I don't want to start a controversy, but all the talk about God's will sort of sounds like a codependence all of its own. God is another thing that is out of our control, but upon which/whom we can place the blame for a lot of things that happen. Of course prayer can be helpful and we can all use some guidance. But I believe that if we truly want to change ourselves and our situations, passive prayer is not enough. We have to learn to act and do things for ourselves, and to take some control over our own lives. Just an opinion. Too many times God has let me down, I'm much better off relying on myself and the people I trust. I can't and more importantly WON'T put my fate in the hands of someone who could allow the existence of all the evils in the world. If I did it would be out of laziness on my own part, and an unwillingness to accept the consequences of my own actions. Sorry if I offend anyone, I don't mean to.

November 19, 1999
3:54 am
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jwt
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To all who have tried to help...

Cici: You asked several questions. Right now my plan is to find a job back home in our old hometown. We already have a vaction home in the area. I have been very sucessful in my career and don't really think I will have major problems finding something interesting to do there. My wife's parents are getting older and are beginning to have health problems. She was so good to my parents before they passed away. I know she would like to be closer to her folks now. It would be something nice I could do for her. Nevertheless, I am a little concerned because I know that caring for her elderly parents can put a strain on our marrage at a time when it is least needed. Sure, I want to be happy and fullfilled. I know a move won't make those things happen. It will just physically seperate me from the day-to-day pain that is rushing toward me here. For now, maybe that is good enough.

gal-ff: My wife is a sweet,cheerful, slob who lives in her own world. I'm sure you are right about my assistant's problem with making a comittment and I belive it would be a problem if we ever tried to be together. I just don't want to live the rest of my life without the passion and zest for life I have felt for the past 2 years.

VRJ & everblue: Prayer is about the only solice I have had throughout this whole problem. I have never prayed for an outcome...only for God to help me. I don't understand why my assistant came into my life. I'm not suprised that I fell in love with her because I really belive she is the person I have been waiting for my entire life. I am also not suprised that we won't be together now because it will hurt a lot of people and that is wrong. I can't seem to avoid the question...why did this happen? If God really knows me, then he knew this would happen the minute my assistant came into my life. I'm not sure there was ever a choice about falling in love with her. Of course, I have had choices about what to do about that love. Maybe I should have just kept it to myself. It was just too strong and too real. I knew all along that it would end in pain. Unfortunately, that didn't make it any less real. Now I am faced with another choice. Do I stay here and witness the celebration of her life with someone else? I know I could not live through that. I'm sure that God knows that too. So, I'm back to the question...why? I have been very open to God and what He wants through this whole thing. I really think it is His will for me to move because it appears to be the only path that is open to me. I have enough faith to accept that outcome and to follow the path He has shown me. You know, everblue, maybe I am codependent on God...

November 19, 1999
8:18 am
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gal-ff
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Update Me

November 19, 1999
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November 19, 1999
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November 19, 1999
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November 19, 1999
8:18 am
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I firmly believe that a person should be "dependent" on God. God gives us all choices, it's the decisions that we make that that affects us. God doesnt want anything bad to happen to us . It's the evil nature of man that does that. Example.. when someone shoots someone else, it's not the gun that kills, it's the person pulling the trigger. I believe that God wants us all to be strong independent people that looks toward him for guidance. If more people would stop and ask themselves, if this would be something that God would approve of them doing, most evil would stop. People don't do that though. They think that they know best...and look at where we are today.
Sorry, didn't mean to go on and on about that.
jwt,
Take responsibility for your actions. They are the ones that got you into this. NOT God, your wife or your assistant. You! And only YOU can get yourself out of it. Think long and hard about it, you probably need some time to yourself to do so. No matter what decision you make, there will always be something that is not perfect about ANY relationship.
You can't blame God for your own weakness. Best of luck. gal

November 19, 1999
9:54 am
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hi JWT,
Nice to meet you! I've read all of this thread and just wanted to add my bit. It comes from experience as i was in a similar position to you.
I really want to say to you please ask yourself is it really love you feel for your assistant or is it as I suspect LUST?
I ended a relationship with someone who was very different to me for this reason, and beleive me if it is just lust, it doesnt last.
Is half the "passion" you find in this relationship due to the fact that it is clandestine in nature? Forbidden fruit etc, Would the passion really be there if you were both married satcking the dishwasher every day?
You say that this woman has problems, this is why you relate to her, but take it from me, when two people have the same problems in a relationship then okay at first it is great because you feel that finally someone understands what you are saying. BUT in the longer term, you both end up stuck on the same things, neither of you can find solutions to the same problems. For example if you had a problem with shyness, at first it would be great that some one cfould understand how meeting new people is hard for you, but if they had that problem too, in the long term each of you would never grow, no-one in the relationship would be able to suggest ways to conquer it.
There is a lot of positive things to be said for having a partner (like your wifE) who is different. YOu can get a different perspective on things in life. Are you really so arrogant to say that your world-view is right and her, more optamistic view is wrong?

Your real issues are coming out in this dilemma. You are looking for passion, but passion is not delivered daily with the milk. Passion can only be passionate because it is random, unpredictable. Nothing you experience everyday as a routine would continue to be "passion".

You say that you cannot see a therapist because you could not expose yourself to anyone. WHY?
Is this not the real problem, you are not copmfortable with yourself
Do you like yourself, your beliefs, your actions?

I made the decision to go for the "passion" when it too came into my life. That is what i thought at the time. All i was doing was finding someone so similar to myself, it was like a mirror. In helping them with their problems I was understanding myself. In reality nothing changed for us until we both independently accepted our own problems and worked on them. The passion did not last, there is little else there, friendship etc.
Take care
Hazza

November 19, 1999
12:56 pm
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Cici
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Wow. I missed a lot....

BROC, here's what I think about people. People are naturally inclined towards maintaining the status quo. They are willing to live in circumstances that might afterwards seem intolerable to them, but at the time living like that was favorable to putting in the time and effort it requires to change yourself. It takes some huge drama in your life to make you take a step back and realize that your living an emotionally squalid life.

I, for example, lived in a drug-induced haze for several months because that was preferrable to me compared to facing reality. Well, maybe not a haze. It was a little more hectic than that. But regardless of semantics, something dramatic appened that made me sharpen my wits, go to Narcotics Anonymous meetings and gird my loins.

JWT, you might understand as well. You are facing a hard choice now, and you see that it is intolerable to continue living as you had.

As for sexual passion, I can't say enough about that. I disagree with the opinion that most women use sex as a physical experssion of emotion. My present relationship is the first one based on anything other than sex!

November 19, 1999
1:20 pm
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BROC
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VRJ,

BEEN AWILE, HOW ARE YOU MY DEAR?

Cici,

Where is the answer to my question I proposed to you?

Eve,

Noone is right 100% of the time but our Higher Power. I KNOW I am right because I have seen the (read this book) many times. Meetings, therapy, books, you name it. I once read that people are predictable...just look at their past, and that WILL tell the future. Because as I said before....If nothing changes, nothing changes. YOU WILL REPEAT OVER AND OVER AND OVER UNTIL YOU CHANGE.

******DID ANYONE GO LOOK AT THE WEB SITE CICI SUGGESTED? THAT WAS AN AWESOME ARTICLE, AND JUST REAFFIRMED WHAT WE HAVE ALL BEEN SAYING HERE. IF YOU DON'T CHANGE, YOUR LIFE WON'T CHANGE. THATS THE BOTTOME LINE, SO EITHER GO THROUGH THE PAIN AND GET THE REWARDS, OR STAY IN YOUR SHELL AND LAY WITH THE SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!*************************

JWT,

You have come along way in just the past few days. You were saying NO COUNSELING, yadda yadda yadda, and now your at least saying, unless I am wrong, is that you would maybe like to, but its fear.

Let me tell you about fear my man. The first eight monhts of this year I was terrified. I was mentally where you are, except I went to a counselor. God almighty, it sucked. Here my WHOLE way of life was gone....I was told that it was extrememely unhealthy and dysfuncitonal. Get away from them. What? These people are like my family. I listened. And you know what, she was right. My line of thinking, like yours now, was warped. Doens't make you bad or insane. Just means its distorted. You have been doing the same shit the same was your whole life and its been a pile of you know what. Right? Right! So, in order for your life to change, for the $1,000,000 prize, what has to change??????????????????????? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU

Embrace that fear, and force yourself into that therapists office. Pickup some books. Join a codependency support group CoDA. Learn about your dysfunciton, learn about you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can tell you another for sure in this world. You will find that if you stick with it, your life will change so drastically for the better you will wonder why you were so miserable for so long. I am pissed that it took me till age 31 to learn this stuff. But its never too late. I feel awesome!!!!!!!!!!!! And you can too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pickup the book, "If life is a game, here are the rules. Its not directly about "issues", but it speaks amazing truths. It will be good for you since you don't know the lingo. When you read it, you will be able to understand it. And when you do, when you do read it, that my man is what we have been trying to get accross to you.

Remember the universal truths.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

The definition of insanity is doing the SAME thing the SAME way over and over and expecting a DIFFERENT outcome.

Only you can change you. And you will NEVER change another person.

We are all ready in OUR OWN TIME. Your time (to learn) this lesson is yours only. LEave your wife and assitant alone. You focus on you and ALL ELSE will follow.

And last but not least, you are a unique and precious creation of god. GET OFF YOUR ASS AND DO SOMETHING POSITIVE WITH IT. TAKE A WALK THROUGH THE CANCER UNIT (CHILDRENS IF POSSIBLE) AND LOOK AT ALL THE KIDS THAT WILL NEVER NEVER NEVER GET THE OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE HAD AND WILL HAVE. BE A MAN AND EMBRACE THAT PAIN. GET SOME HELP TO LEARN ABOUT YOU! I CAN PROMISE YOU YOU WILL THANK THE GOOD LORD ABOUVE YOU VISITIED THIS SITE!

YOUR LIFE WILL CHANGE IF YOU WILL JUST LIFT A FINGER. YOU HAVE ALWAYS DONE FOR OTHERS....#1 SIGN OF CODEPENDENCY. NOW DO FOR YOU! BE AFRAID. ITS OK. BUT DON'T LET IT END YOUR LIFE.

THAT IS ALL.

BROC

November 22, 1999
6:41 pm
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VRJ
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Hey BROC
I'm fine. You sound better too. Still as outspoken as ever but with a softer, wiser edge methinks. I've been going to GA, counselling, reading, etc. But for the past while, am learning to do it myself. The detachment thing finally hit me to some extent. Isn't it great to love yourself?! It's so much easier to love others too. And man, isn't life simpler and easier on your head when you quit trying to control the outcome?! I'm still with my bf but now he comes in and out of MY LIFE. I no longer stop my life when he goes away and sit around waiting. Sometimes he comes back in and I've moved along quite a ways and I think he's scrambling to keep up. heehee. He is still stuck to a great extent and tries to suck me back in but for the most part, I resist. If, in a weak moment, I fall into the dance, I now recognize it for what it is, and stop. So, I'm fine, moving along, singing in the shower. He's hanging on to my shirt tails and getting a wild ride I'll bet.
How about you?

November 23, 1999
4:19 pm
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BROC
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VRJ,

Did you read my august posting? What a mess. But it hurt. Ex with my best friend. Oouch.

Worried it was me. Worried I made a mistake and lost the best thing that ever happened to me. God, how sick. She fucked my best friend, not to mention while he was married and his wife was 8 months pregnant. God, what happened to her VRJ? I never thought she was capable of that.

By the way, they are no longer a couple. He is seeing someone new. She has told my sources that they are now, and HAVE ALWAYS been just friends. She and he still denies they ever got together. I might have believed them but his roomate confided in me because he thought what Jim (my best friend) did was completely out of line, and he hated to see me in pain, so he told me about them being together, etc. Still, they deny it.

And even now they still deny it, although I have never been the one to ask them. I haven't talked to her since we broke up in Jan, and him since at least April. 4 years with her, and 12 with him. What a waste.

Well, not a total waste I guess. If forced me to look in the mirror and take inventory of myself. I used to act JUST like them. How fucking sick is that. Cheating, lieing - it was just a normal accepted thing. NORMAL! Sick. Anyway, its still hard. They all (my group of friends) turned their back on me when we broke up. Then my best friend breaks the oath we all had (we were never to get together in any shape or form with anyones ex.) He did. It hurt. She went along with it whcih makes her just as bad.

A friend of mine ran into her at his business last week. When we first started dating four years ago she was a little chubby. During one of our breakups a few years ago she went though major pain (abandonment) lost 15 lbs. We got back together and started working out all the time at the gym. She stayed thin, and really toned up. But, as time passed, she got very anal about EVERYTHING she ate. Anyway, I needed to let you know this to finish my story.

Back to my buddy seeing her last week. He said she looks like a coke slut. Almost anexoric, and dressed like a complete slut.

GOd, what happened? It still tears my heart out, and to hear this makes it worse.

I have a great woman in my life. SHES HEALTHY!!!!!!!!!! I will explain later. She is awesome. Anyway, I still think about, not all the time, but often, of my ex. my old group of frineds. You may need to refresh your memeory by reading my august thread "My story, kind of long, need some advice..."

God, why do things happen this way? Why do I even care about her at all. She is fucked up. She needs major help. I have turned my life around. I am finally getting some good in my life. But yet, I still wonder why?

Broc

November 23, 1999
9:45 pm
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VRJ
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BROC
yes, I have followed you all along and you do sound much better. I almost died when you came back in august and sounded like you had fallen right baack into it. You may not be religious, but I have prayed for you (under your real name, which I got from a mutual friend, you can get my email address from her if you'd like, I think you know who)and I know it helped. I don't think it's wrong to feel some pain seeing someone you loved hurting themselves. I watch my bf go from progress to falling right back into it and feel great pain. But I have to detach and move forward and let him run to catch up or fall behind. That is the only truly loving way. Not only do I deserve to be healthy and have a happy life but anyone I'm with deserves to be with a healthy person, not someone who condones and allows them to wallow in their sickness. Love sometimes means letting go, sometimes means taking the hard line. I pray constantly that he comes along. But I'm going irregardless.
So, that's my update. I've read yours. Good for you! You seem to be feeling for her but distancing at the same time. In August, you were getting sucked right back down. Keep on movin' ((Prayers))

November 29, 1999
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jwt
why are you so quite? This is suppost to be your threads

November 30, 1999
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lost soul: I've been busy with a little medical problem and a ton of work. I have also been trying to follow everyone's advice. I've been taking a hard look at myself and my relationships.

I have begun to question my feelings about my assistant. She is someone who seems to have MANY

November 30, 1999
8:48 pm
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lost soul: I've been busy with a little medical problem and a ton of work. I have also been trying to follow everyone's advice. I've been taking a hard look at myself and my relationships.

I have begun to question my feelings about my assistant. She is someone who seems to have MANY problems (money, exhusbands & family, children, time pressures, etc.) that stresses her and make her feel down. We spend a lot of time talking about her problems. I am very sympathetic and try to help her. However, it seems that she doesn't always have the same interest in my problems when I try to talk to her about them. She will try to compare them to her problems as a way to minimize what is bothering me and to focus attention again on her life. I always thought that I could make her happy. Now, I'm not so sure. She seems to find the dark lining in even the brightest cloud (not that much different from me). I'm not sure that anyone or any amount of love or effort will fix that.

I talked to her about something that bothered me about our relationship. Too many times when I tell her that I love her she will say "I'm glad" or something other than "I love you too." She says she feels pressured when I tell her I love her. She says that she never says I love you back all the time to anyone but her children. So, I stopped saying it on a regular basis. I've found that her interest in me and her "I love yous" increased a lot when I slowed down. That has been the pattern with her. She seems to try to pull away whenever I try to pull closer. She seems to try to pull closer whenever I try to pull away.

I also cannot seem to shake my lack of trust in her faithfulness to any man. I know her conscience bothers her but I'm not sure she can resist the attraction.

Why do I still love this woman? I can't seem to shake that either.

I have also been trying to see the good in my marrage. This woman really does love me. If I tried half as hard to make my wife happy as I do my assistant, I know it would make her extremely happy. Nevertheless, her good moods have never made me feel the way my assistant does when she is happy.

It almost seems the reverse of my relationship with my assistant. My wife is always trying to focus on and worry about my problems. She seldom complains about her problems and doesn't seem to want to be the center of attention. Unfortunately, our talks about my problems do not make me feel any better and she is too wrapped up in her own world to do anything that would help.

Over the Thanksgiving hollidays,I tried to spark some romance for her within me. If its there, its buried too deep. She is a sweet woman but that's all there seems to be. I just can't seem to get interested in what she has to say. I also feel very little physical attraction for her even though most people would say she is more attractive than my assistant.

Where does that leave me? My current marrage bores me to tears but a marrage to my assistant looks like it would be a mistake. With my medical problems behind me, I am again faced with the decision about leaving my job. Do I leave? If so, do I leave alone or with my wife? Will I ever find that someone?

December 1, 1999
11:23 am
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Cici
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Perhaps you are not in love with your assistant, but the idea of her you have in your mind. I see that upon closer inspection you fear this is so. So many times we delude ourselves because we fear the harshness of reality.

I am sometimes like your wife, jwt. My boyfriend says this, too. I focus on his problems, on making him feel better, because he really does feel so bad about himself it hurts me to hear him talk about himself (especially when he's drunk). I apologize a lot. But in the end, I think he also acknowledges me and my needs too.

I guess I'm trying to say I understand your wife. If she tries so hard to make you feel better, to listen and understand, she must really love you. As for the assistant...I question her problems as well. Here is a conundrum: how can you trust someone who left someone else to be with you? Can't they just as easily be distracted by a prettier face, a bigger wallet, a more sympathetic ear?

Did you read the article I posted? Here is the web site:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/featu.....index.html

Read this article. Then evaluate yourself. Keep us posted!!! Good luck.

Oooo...only 31 days until the new millenium. Or the end of the world!!!

December 1, 1999
3:25 pm
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mlj
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Hi jwt,

I'm pretty new here and was planning on just reading these threads for a while, but I would like to comment on something you mentioned earlier that no one else has yet talked about.

You wrote that your wife was a "slob", that "she would rather just sit and read, watch TV or play on the computer", that she doesn't want to talk about problems and tries to pretend that everything is fine. (This is my interpretation of what you said, in any case). I strongly suspect that your wife realizes things aren't so great in your marriage right now. Maybe she's afraid to lose you, or to lose the things that your life together has come to mean (kids, security, stability, etc.). Maybe she is afraid that talking about things will only lead to everything blowing up in her face. Also, the activities you mention her doing sound like relatively unfulfilling ones (in the long run)... is it possible your wife is depressed, as well?

Seems like there's most likely more going on there than just a happy, cheerful wife who loves you and does not feel the tension and unhappiness in you and probably in your relationship.

Whatever the case is, it is clear that the two of you have trouble communicating. One reason you mentioned is that your wife is trying real hard to avoid talking about any possible unpleasantness. You said that you are afraid of counseling... but it sounds like the communication patterns that you and she have built up are in a rut and my guess would be that it will be very hard for the two of you to get out of them without some help. Counseling, for the both of you, simply to get you talking, might be a really good thing. It may not save your marriage, but it might help the both of you understand and respect each other (once more). I doubt that, in 25 years, she has not changed.

While I agree that no one should be forced stay with someone if the relationship is unhealthy, I believe that 25 years does mean something... if only that an attempt to make the relationship healthy, in whatever new form that may be (and that may not be as husband and wife), is owed to both yourself, your spouse, and your kids.

Well, I hope this helps you in some way, if only to give you something to think about. Good luck to you.

December 1, 1999
4:50 pm
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JWT,

YOU GOT IT, OR AT LEAST ARE STARTING TO "SEE" IT, AREN'T YOU! THATS AWESOME.

You asked the question, why does she pull away when you get closer, then come when you pull away.

I have an AWESOME book for you that will explain to a "t" whats happening with you and her.....all your relationships. Its called "The Two Step". Its a large book (in size), not in pages. Its kind of a cartoon book. It tells you how these dysfunctional rel. work using picutures. It is great. Buy it now!

Why do you care about her so much? Thats easy. Because you don't love you. You see amigo, the bottom line to ALL of us codependents is this: WE LOOK OUTSIDE OF OURSELVES FOR OUR HAPPINESS. If only I had a new job, a boss, a car, nice cloths, a hot girlfriend with big boobies, a nice man, a new home, etc. etc. etc. I would be happy.

So, your not happy with your wife. Your maxed out at your job, so its boring or not challenging. And BOOM, a new frilly comes along...... nice butt, great eyes, killer smile, and best of all SHE, AT LEAST AT FIRST, HAS ALOT OF INTEREST IN YOU.

Are you starting to see WHAT YOU are doing? Its a book we have all read, and for that matter written.

Bottom line is this. Its not her.....its you wanting, yearning to just be happy. She just happens to be the ONLY thing in your life that comes close to giving you this happiness.

Well, I can tell you this, and its a fact. You could marry this woman. Get laid every night. All the things you fantasize and dream about. And I gurantee you you will be back at these threads in 6 months, if not sooner.

Why? LISTEN UP. BECAUSE YOU AREN'T HAPPY WITH YOU! HAPPINESS COMES FROM WITHIN. AND UNTIL THIS HAPPENS, YOU MIGHT AS WELL CRAWL IN A HOLE AND NEVER EVER COME OUT. THATS A HARD, CRUEL, COLD FACT I AND EVERYONE ELSE HERE HAS HAD TO LEARN, AND NOW ITS YOUR TURN.

LOOK WITHIN. GET SOME THERAPY TO FIGURE OUT WHATS INSIDE OF YOU THATS BROKEN, THEN TAKE TIME TO FIX IT. THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL YOU EVER HAVE A CHANCE AT HAPPINESS!

GOOD LUCK MY FRIEND!

BROC

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