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I hit that "point"
September 6, 2005
8:07 pm
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22haha
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Hi all, hope this evening finds you well. The thing is... I have known for the entire 6 years that this relationship was wrong, but couldn't find the strength to get out. Yet, when the honeymoon phase comes around I turned into a puddle of mush... I would bet this time I don't. Taj struck a chord for me with "the most dysfunctional relationships are the hardest to get out of". So can someone tell me if I have never been in a bad relationship before (all EXTREMELY loving, honest, mutual) will I be able to be in a normal one again? I fear that this relationship will caues me to not trust the next man I am with. I am an extremely trusting person with everyone but my ex and I wonder if it will rub off on the next guy. Also, am I codependent because I wanted him to get better? Does this mean I will be coda with the next guy I date? Because, honestly, I have never felt like I had a problem in my life before I met the ex. My dad was an alcoholic and the ex is the first guy I have dated that really drank, maybe that is where the problem lies?!?!

September 6, 2005
8:19 pm
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22haha
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UUUGGGHHH...he is calling right now and I am not answering... he is supposed to be at meeting... message: "I just called to see what you were up to, give me a buzz" O.K. I really need to tell him to leave me alone. I am so scared even though I know it is the right thing, the best thing, the ONLY thing to do. Still... after 6 years you kind of get used to the same ol same ol and it is hard to break the cycle.

September 6, 2005
11:33 pm
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Shaney
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Hey 22 - just hanging out with the dogs....the good furry kind, not the bad creepy kind. I HAVE to tell you that you're doing really great. You will need to confront him at some point and tell him the plan - YOUR plan, whatever that may be. Do it when you're ready, but you may want to start preparing. Keep coming here, we'll help you. How are you feeling? It's been a few days since real contact - are you okay? Just checking on ya :). Just so you know.. you'll be able to handle a healthy relationship when it comes your way - first things first, though, you'll need to get your act together and realize that you're a hot-ass, stuffed with self-esteem and confidence. I'm going over to say hi to Nesh. Come over when you get a chance.

September 6, 2005
11:46 pm
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22haha
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Shaney= the deal is that he stopped by just a bit ago. I told him he was a manipulator, abuser, liar, cheater etc. etc. He said it took him along time to see that he rally is the problem. He said that he is afraid of people hurting him. His family was horrible to him as a child (they are still dysfunctional). So, he said he has never let anyone in his life. I know thats where it comes from. He said he wants to make his appt. sooner and he is going to get a book tomorrow. I told him I couldn't see him until his appt. but he understood. He really seems sorry but I told him tounderstand how hard it is for me to believe him. He did. I really do think he hates himself and he wants a better life than he has. He said a lot of things that made sence. His mother never really kissed or hugged him etc. Is there any hope??? Am I an ass????

September 7, 2005
12:00 am
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Shaney
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Holy crap! No, you're not an ass, at all. Every day brings on a new challenge. Okay, break this down. Is this approach different than any other time? And don't say it is, just because you want it to be, Think about it. If it is, and he really wants to get help with his life, he'll do it, with or without you. My opinion, is that if you cave this early in the game, he'll regress. Things will be alright for a little while, and then he will put aside all of the things that he said he would do for his recovery (the book, the appointment, etc.)and things will go back to the crappy way that they were. Make him work for himself, not you and your relationship together - but him.
You have your own life to worry about. If you both get healthy and still can't turn eachother loose, then work on it. I've been there too. It's a tough decision to make because you want to believe that things can change SO BAD! I'd hate to see you waste the rest of your BEST years ever, but I understand the desire and the hope.

September 7, 2005
12:11 am
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22haha
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Shaney
Well, it does seem a little differnet in a few ways. 1. I am not so dependent on him right now. Usually I cry and plea with him to get help and ask why he does what he does etc. This time I told him I wanted to get MY life back in order and that I wasn't going to be his doormat anymore and I was tired of being abused and manipulated and lied to and cheated on. I was very assertive. 2. He told me things (opened up) about problems with his childhood. His mother wasn't affectionate, He feels afraid to trust people etc. 3. He understands that he has beaten my self esteem to nothing and he wants me to be happy and healthy. 4. He made the appointment for HIM. Usually he would say he is doing it for me or us. This time he said it was for him. He also said that He doesn't want to loose me over his problems. He doesn't like who he is or what he does he just doesn't know any other way. I told him only HE can choose to make his life better. I didn't caue it, I can't control it, and I can't change it. What do you think, honestly???

September 7, 2005
12:38 am
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Shaney
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Honey, I honestly feel that you've said all the right things to him. But they're just WORDS if you don't back them up with actions. Do what you say you're going to do - be true to your word and true to yourself. You'll gain so much respect for yourself, and everyone else will respect you too. That is GOLD, honey. Respect! Have a vision of what you want YOUR life to be, say it, and then do it. I think you are capable of so much. Just take this first step and stick to your plan.

September 7, 2005
12:48 am
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Neshema
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22-

good job, but dont let him manipulate u with what he thinks you want to hear. It will take a lot of therapy and commitment to heal on his part. Be strong. It won't change by tomorrow. Just like my ACOA who went off his psych meds. I would be SOOOO happy if he announced he went back on. I would be so tempted to go back, but I also know how bad it can be. And, as my friend who is a famous counseling psych prof says, the years of therapy to undo what he has gone through might be more painful for him and not worth it than fixing out relationship...let him go for his own good, if not for mine. He will just revert back. It is too ingrained in him.

September 7, 2005
12:19 pm
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taj64
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Shaney is right. Actions speak louder than words. think of all the actions, and by that the physical and verbal abuse you got. Talk right now is just that talk. Both of you need to work on the self before you can ever truly have a good relationship again. I think when you truly heal for yourself, you may rethink of having a kid or relationship with this guy.

Read this book. I got it at the library:

Too good to leave, too bad to stay : a step-by-step guide to helping you decide whether to stay in or get out of your relationship (Kirshenbaum, Mira).

This is eye opening book. She also writes others too around same topic.

I also live by the words, don't make major decision based on emotion. Choosing to continue because you feel hurt right and you don't want to hurt now is not wise choice. In the long run, you can recover, you do heal, but pain is inevitable at first, and hard work.

September 7, 2005
12:30 pm
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gofigure
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Taj, that's a great book! I picked it up a year ago and while I'm still here (I am a very slow, frightened learner), it illuminated many things for me and helped me see that my relationship may not be worth saving anymore. On the other hand, it also gives good indications of a relationship that is not too bad to leave.

Now if someone would just come up with a "how to leave and not hurt anyone at all" book ...that along with some "brave pills" and I'd be set.
~go

September 7, 2005
12:31 pm
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Anonymous
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22 -

I am trying to "fix" a relationship that went sour - based on the idea that I am fixing me and he is promising to fix him.

let me tell you - if we could separate and do this on our own and be able to get back together later - I would jump all over the idea.

but we can't - because of the logistics of our lease agreement - if he leaves, he stays gone and I am not moving cuz my apt. is rent controlled and I can't afford or find anything else in my area and won't move my daughter again.

so we are together. and he IS trying. altho, bitterness and resentment is everywhere cuz I am growing by leaps and bounds and he is taking baby steps - his issues hurt me, and I have to actively work on "repelling" the pain - detaching and not letting it affect me, even tho it should and does.

no, you are not an ass for seeing progress, or a willingness to fix it - and hopefully he keeps moving forward - and not get stuck in blaming his issues on his past and not work to get past them.

don't get sucked in by promises - stand back and focus on you - spend more time on you - and let the chips fall where they may - you will see the progress and as you recover, you will be able to make a healthier, more educated decision about his progress and his ability to be the right partner for you. As you grown and learn on your own, you will be able to see him more clearly for his abilities and strengths, weaknesses and warts - and decide if you want this or not.

I truly wish I had a choice - it's all or nothing right now and I want to see if it will work - after all, I will have to learn how to be in a relationship at some point - so I will use him as my guinea pig, so to speak - if he gets better but we don't appear to be meant to be - we can both walk away knowing we tried everything. I would rather start with this one than try again with someone new - this one accepts me, even with all my warts - and is willing to wait out my recovery and see what happens - most guys would run from the mess I am now - but also, I know he is going to work on him - and I see it happening now - tho initially, I had my doubts and really thought we were doomed.

if I can offer you one piece of advice you consider carefully - it's to not rush back into things with him - the urge, the pull will be there - and it will be hard to resist - but it's in your best interest to keep a healthy distance until you see honest RESULTS and progress - not potential.

September 7, 2005
1:20 pm
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kathygy
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22,

Good for you in standing up for yourself. Now you need to back that up with consistent action. In fact, I would tell him if he is abusive to me again I will be gone and mean it. Right now all you have from him is words. He needs to prove himself to you that he has grown and changed but that will take time. One therapy session isn't going to do it. So he has childhood wounds. But you still have to deal with how he is treating you today. He needs to know that you are DEAD serious about not taking ANY more abuse from him ever, ever again.

Don't worry about future relationships. If you work on healing your wounds and becoming more healthy you're more likely to attract a healthier man who will treat you well.

love,
kathy

September 7, 2005
6:07 pm
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22haha
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Thank you all so much. Kathygy - I was a little afraid to read your post as you are usually pretty dtraight forward and I was afraid you would tell me I was an ass! Lol. I am not really caught up in the emotion of it right now. In face, I feel like I miss who I used to be and I want myself to heal. I am going to back my words with actions, as you are right I need to continue to stand up for myself and if he really wants a better life for himself he will do it. I am so thankful to have all of you to talk to. I guess we will see how it goes. The best thing I have learned is that I can not help him. Honestly that has always been the problem. He is the only one that can, and I now know this. He told me yesterday he is afraid of people hurting him... I guess this comes form someone in his past hurting him. So, I told him... "if you hurt everyone else, and dont let anyone get close to you, then no one can ever hurt you?!?"

September 7, 2005
7:30 pm
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22haha -

I honestly think this guy will never change (he's merely saying :"its not my fault, I'm not responsible for 'me' now). The real issue (far more interesting?) here is : "will you?". I really do wanna believe you when you're saying that you're going to back your words with actions, but there's a little voice in the back of my mind telling me something quite different (am I an ass to write this down, I dont think so).

why do you want - or "need" (co-depe... ??) - to "help" him in the first place ... tell us some more about that if you like - as I see it, you(r) reacting to him and continuing to do so is probably part of your "drama" not his - something else ... can you let anyone close to you ?

I will admit that I do see (alot of) potential here ...... in you ofcourse ........ you're the gold(mine), <22>, not him. How about doing some (more) gold digging, huh?

make us go "pee-pee" in here (lol), I'd like that (!), stay smart - [email protected]

September 7, 2005
9:24 pm
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22haha
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[email protected], I am having a hard time understanding what you are asking or saying. I have been in two other very normal, loving, honest caring 5 year relationships. I am very able to let someone close to me. I DON'T want or need code to help him. I have just realized recently (learned, I should say) that that is what I am doing. I don't want to help him anymore. I felt sorry for him and I wanted to help him and I took everything personally when now I KNOW it is not MY fault and I can't help him. I don't know how my reacting to him is part of my drama. Could you explain this. I am trying to regain my life and in the mean time if he is wanting to make his life better isn't that a good thing? Also, he isn't saying it isn't his fault... what he said was "everything is my fault, but I don't know any other way of being". I understand that blaming his childhood is not taking responsibility of his actions NOW, but isn't there a chance that he needs help (from a therapist) to learn how to think, live, be different. I would imagine if he has been hurting since a child it must be difficult to change all by yourself 39 years later.

September 7, 2005
11:06 pm
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22haha
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Just an FYI; he called tonight to ask me to come over. We both have tomorrow off of work. I told him no thanks I was taking a bath, having some cereal (I love cereal) and relaxing. I also told him I would never go in his hot tub again because of all the germs that are probably in there, and so he is draining it right now. Hows that for funny! So, is this backing my words by not running off to see him like I normally would have?

September 7, 2005
11:21 pm
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Neshema
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He is draining the hot tub??? Toooo funny! He is such a wimp. See he knows that he is an old, lame, fart (oops, am I allowed to say that?). He is so powerless, and so he has to act all macho with the naked women and abuse to make up for his ego problems. That is so unattractive! Loser! Okay, 22, I don't care if he drains the hot tub or not. The minute he thinks he convinced you, he will be up to his old tricks to make himself feel like a man again. You know the drill.

September 7, 2005
11:23 pm
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22haha
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nesh - yeah i know the drill but this time i am focusing on me!! not that into thinking about him again.

September 7, 2005
11:25 pm
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Neshema
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GOOD! Plus, those germs linger in the grout.

September 7, 2005
11:26 pm
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Neshema
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and the motor...

September 7, 2005
11:32 pm
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lost and found
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neshema-you aint got no sense girl!!

September 8, 2005
12:06 am
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Shaney
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Hi there girls -

the fact that he is drainging the hot tub is killing me right now!
If you can possibly imagine, I'm still waiting to cut that damn CAKE!!! Bf is off duty tonight and we have a bout 5 tv shows to catch up on. I'll ba back later... it might be late, but I just wanted to check in on your girls. 22, you're doing really good, keep it up and I'll save you a piece of cake. Nesh, I'm buying to a cake of your own since you weigh a whopping 100 labs and need to pack some weight on. Toodles my friends - talk to you in a bit.

September 8, 2005
12:08 am
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Shaney
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Sorry about the 50 typos in that post - I had a glass of wine...
:o|

September 8, 2005
12:11 am
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22haha
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Shaney - hang on, Nesh gets a cake at 100lbs but I don't at 110? I guess I am over the weight limit for my own cake? Lol I will resort to eating some ice cream then!!! Hope you are having a nice evening. With all the typos and the wine and the cake it seems as though you are!!! :o)

September 8, 2005
12:14 am
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Shaney
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I weigh 112, we should all get a cake of our own. Honey - read your posts above... I think you're doing great. It's 9:15 here in LA - where are you?

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