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I freek out
June 17, 2007
9:07 am
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Rasputin
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June 17, 2007
9:25 am
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Rasputin
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Sorry folks, I pressed send button so quickly!

Here we go! There are people in my church whom when I see make me freak out!!! So for, they are 2.

One of these 2 is a woman who keeps checking up on me, making sure to seat herself right next to me. She even started arriving at the same time as me and seats herself in a place where she knows where I like to sit.

Before, she would sit at the at the front and be there much earlier in the church.

Plainly, this woman and I have been having conversation and socializing for a number of time during the coffee break etc, and I honestly have had negative vibes from her. Outwardly, she is: quiet, reserved, disciplined, polite, decent-acting woman. Yet, there is so much resentment and stuffed negative emotions inside her. She does not seem to do anything about this serious stuff...except resenting me, keep minotoring my movement making sure to seat herself right next to me in the pew. She knows my favourite pew & my time when I arrive and she changed her timing to fit mine.

I'm a hurting person who has been abused a lot going thru a healing process. In my program, I've been requested to surround myself with healthy safe people who love me and show kindness and support to me & to avoid and set boundaries with unsafe unhealthy people.

I like my church and I haven't been there for quite a while b/c of those few weirdo people who give me the creep. Yet sadly, I can't complain about this woman to any one in my church since she is quiet and ourtwardly decent person.

What can I do in this case??? I'm really scared of those weirdo people who are doing nothing in their life but resent me and may be some others who are similar to me?

I cannot complain about those unhealthy people b/c churches are places who are open to everyone and this woman is outwardly decent quiet woman. Yet, I really feel uncomfy around her. She really gives me the creep!!!

June 17, 2007
10:07 am
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mamacinnamon
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Ras:

Does she say durogatory things to you or things that are upsetting, or does she just sit by you. I know several negative folks that can only complain about life and their circumstances. Is this her, or is she saying things directly to you and about you?

I think I would let the pastor know what is goin on and explain to him your situation of needing positive folks for your healing and ask if there is someone who could maybe sit w/ you so as to maybe she will decide she doesn't want to sit w/ you. I'm not sayin be rude to the lady but make it obvious you don't really want her bothering you. Or you could ask her why she sits w/ you and let her know that you really would rather sit alone. Set a boundary w/ her.

Just a few thoughts.

June 17, 2007
10:29 am
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Rasputin
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Thanks (((Mama))) for your reply.

No she doesn't do rude or derogatory things. On the contrary, as I said b4...this old lady (70 years old as she once told me), is very polite, disciplined, outwardly decent; yet she has lots of resentment issues and stuffed-up negative emotions and she does not seem to be dealing with her problems. Hence, her resentment toward me who is more healthy than her.

That's why it's hard to complain directly about her b/c of her outwardly decent, demure conduct.

I once complained to the pastor about the other person who's a man's - about his improper rude and weird behaviour in the church and the pastor confessed to me that he was mentally-ill.

I know there are a number of good elders in my church to whom I can vent & open up about my fears, but I am just waiting for the right timing. Don't want to rock the boat as yet. This woman is clever and dicciplined and this makes it more difficult when there is no material/evident proof. Most people function by rational things rather than gut feelings.

June 17, 2007
10:41 am
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Ras:

Just a thought here, but do you think possibly she hangs around you coz she is studying you; trying to figure out how you are healing? Maybe could she be reaching out for help in her own way? Maybe you could let her know how you are feeling one day and possibly share the healing process you are going thru. Maybe she isn't really resentful but envious?

June 17, 2007
10:58 am
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Rasputin
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"Maybe she isn't really resentful but envious?"

Either way: Resentment OR Envy are both unhealthy negative emotions that can lead to each other. Envy leads to resentment and resentment leads to envy. Both are twins!

She said a number of things to me that indicated her jealousy, resentment and control over me. She also manifested a number of attributes of classical codep person. So, I'm basing my vibes here on practical stuff. She is really UNHEALTHY person.

Bottom line is...I don't need folks like that in my life. I need folks who is loving, empathetic, kind and confident who feel good in their own skin. However, if I complain about her to one of the elders, I don't want to mention her name b/c I don't want to hurt her. I don't even want to mention her gender.

There are lots of wonderful people in my church and I miss them and miss my church. Haven't been there for almost one month, just b/c of those few weirdo. Too bad, too unfair!!!

Thanks {{{MamaC}}} for your kindness, bless you hon!!!

June 17, 2007
11:03 am
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Rasputin
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I also forgot to mention too...that is old woman is NOT doing anything for her own healing except...resent, feel jealous, control, and manipulate people who are more healthy.

This is one of the things that signals "Red Flag" to me!

June 17, 2007
11:07 am
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mamacinnamon
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Yes, I can see red flag there also. Think she'd follow if you went and set elsewhere? I'm not trying to be coniving, but maybe wait till just prior to the service starting or right after opening prayer to go in. By then most folks are settled in. If you waited then you could go sit elsewhere and she'd had to rise in front of everyone to come sit by you. Might deter her and then maybe after several times she might move on to another. That doesn't help in the commons areas or elsewhere, but maybe a thought for during the church service. You'd sure get more from it this way.

Again, just a thought. Tryin to throw some things your way that might be helpful.

June 17, 2007
2:57 pm
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Rasputin
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"Think she'd follow if you went and set elsewhere?"

Most certainly, YES!!! Well, don't forget that a codep person is someone controlling, manipulative, dishonest who can make things happen. She would find another means of being close or around to me and that alone freaks me out.

People don't change easily and she is manifesting NO desire to change or even be vulnerbale about her jealousy/resentment or shortcoming issues to anyone and that initself is "Red Flag."

I know jealousy is a Very Strong Negative emotion that needs to be dealt with, otherwise people who posses it will lack peace in their life and will be consumed by its fires.

She seems to be in denial about her shortcomings and thus I need to keep my distance from her.

June 17, 2007
5:01 pm
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StronginHim77
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Arrive late (during praise & worship). If possible, sit in the front row, next to one of the deacons/ushers. But definitely the front row. And leave, right before the end of the service.

I've had to do this, also. It's important not to worry about what others think of your behavior. This is between you and your HP.

June 17, 2007
7:24 pm
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Rasputin
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Thanks {{{Ma}}} for the tip! I will do it next week. This week, the rain stopped me from going to church.

I like to sit at the back coz I like to leave right at the end of the service skipping the coffee break altogether.

You say: "I've had to do this, also." Did you have similar situations, could you elaborate more about it, please? I might learn something or be inspired that I'm not alone in such a trial/test.

June 17, 2007
8:41 pm
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thewall
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Each week sit somewhere new. Make it a game of musical chairs. lol She'll never know where you are going to sit next week. 🙂

You are still in control. Dont let the weirdos stop you from going to church. Thats giving them all of the control. A healthy person maintains control over her life while setting healthy limits.She doesnt avoid the situation.

June 17, 2007
8:52 pm
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Rasputin
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Thanks the wall for the wise advice indeed. I will try a combination of your way and ma's way, tho, I love to sit at the back since I like to leave right at the end of the service.

I agree with you: I should not let some weirdos control my life. I should be in control of my life, coz I will be giving them power over me and they will take advantage of my vulnerable personality.

I will keep you all posted next week!

June 17, 2007
10:41 pm
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hopeful for change
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Ya know I got sick of the negativity myself with people and I have actually said to some people look, I need positivity in my life right now, so if we can't talk about postive things then I can't talk to you no offense, but I am changing my way of thinking any only positive is the way.

Maybe give her a copy of the secret

June 18, 2007
9:33 am
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risingfromtheashes
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ras...also, you could find a pew that is almost full, leaving no room for her.

or could you find people you ENJOY being around, with positive energy and find a way to surround yoruself with them, so she has no room to be around you.

I also like the idea of arriving as services begin, and seat yourself where you are comfortable.

MIND YOU - if this woman is as cunning as you mention, she may start arriving late as well and trying to follow you in.

like I said, find a pew that only has room for yourself.

do you have friends you can take and have sit on either side of you?

or other members you can trust, explain and ask that they walk in and seat with you?

In the end, maybe some extra prayers to god to relieve you of this negativity may help. As well as focusing on you, and asking God to give you the strength to "deflect" the negativity she brings around you. Negativity is all around us.. .no matter where we go. Sometimes instead of running from it, the best thing we can do is learn to deal with it...to be strong in the face of it. Maybe your pastor can help you pray for that?

June 18, 2007
7:34 pm
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Hopeful ~ Right on. I hate negative people too. I think they become more negative b/c we are opposite of them and they can't stand us. Giving her a copy of the secret won't help. They are people out there who do NOT want to change no matter what and I think this woman is one of them.

Rising~ "MIND YOU - if this woman is as cunning as you mention, she may start arriving late as well and trying to follow you in."

She DOES arrive late as I mentioned, if you Carefully read my post. You need to trust me when I say something. I'm not imagining things. This woman is clever!!!

Folks, note this which I forgot to mention in my post:

"When I joined the choir, I would be in church 1 hour earlier, when she knew that I joined the choir, she started to arrive 1 hour before the service just like me. When I quit the choir, I would arrive right on time of the service, she changed her timing and started to arrive late tho b4, she would be earlier in the church.

Before, she used to sit at the front. When I joined the church, I would sit on the front. Now that I started to arrive late and thus sit at the back, she adjusted her timing and place to fit with mine. A REal manipulative, immature and controlling behaviour.

I really don't fee comfy around this woman and definitely don't need people like that in my life. They are very deterimental to our recovery.

If you have someone with these description in your life, I would say...watch out.

The fact that she is monitoring me, controlling me shows me that she is an immature, unhealthy, unwise, unkind.... woman despite her age, 70 or 71 years old.

If worse comes to worst, I might speak with one of the elders. I really need to take good care of myself and protect myself. I know churches are open places for every one and honestly, we don't know who can be there. I'm a warm person who takes risks on people. Yet, when I feel uncomfy around someone, I evaluate them later.

Thanks folks for allowing me to vent!

June 19, 2007
10:00 am
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atalose
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Ras,

It seems that those coffee breaks and socializing with this woman has opened a door for her. In your conversations did she talk to you about any of her resentments or stuffed emotions? When you say that a codep person is someone controlling, manipulative, dishonest who can make things happen. What do you mean by can make things happen? Can you share some examples of her jealous, manipulative and dishonest behaviors.

What has she done besides sit next to you in a church pew to make you think she resents or is jealous of you? Can you share some examples of her jealous, manipulative and dishonest behaviors.

Like you, it sounds like she is also a hurting person and attends church to seek some kind of comfort. Most often negative people don’t even realize they are negative. Is her negativity shown in those conversations you had with her?

If you are having so much trouble with this outwardly decent quiet woman and she is keeping you from attending church, it sounds more like your issue not hers. Avoidance is not a healthy way to deal with those issues.

You received many good suggestions about your seating problem in church but I would be more inclined to work on the why you are allowing those kind of people to control your life.

I always ask myself “what is my part in this” when situations make me uncomfortable or I have an issue with someone.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

June 19, 2007
11:53 am
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Ras

I completely understand what you are talking about, and your anger about her invading your boundaries. I have had this problem loads in the past, and even though I outwardly did not talk to them, they always would search me out cause of the energy I have inside me.

The fact of the matter is if this person needs help, she can get it for herself from whomever, vicar, counsellor, etc.

You are (at church) there for you and she is invading your boundaries. AND YES ITS BLOODY UNCOMFORTABLE. If you want the truth, I would either tell her nicely "to stop sitting next to you, you feel uncomfortable in her presence" or write in in a nice card and hand to her. Tell her how you feel and what you want from her.

If she still does not do it, you may have to say it assertively to her.

Then take the issue from there, see how she responds?

I really hope this helps, cause Ive had jealous, manipulative people like this around me. I call them emotional vampires.

Best wishes and let me know how you get on.

June 19, 2007
6:55 pm
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Atalose~ I cna't go into details into Why or what. I trust myself enough when I say I feel uncomfy around someone, Period.

CTC~ Thanks hon for your understanding! You can only empathize with people only when you've had something similar happened to you. I knew you would sympathize.

To be honest with you, your suggestion about the card thing sounds BRIGHT. It's private, secretive so that she doesn't get embarrassed and others don't know about it. I will see how things go. I haven't been to church for almost a month. Let's hope that should got fed up with pursuing me. If that's the case, then I will forget/drop the whole issue while staying prudent. I know people don't change easily.

If she is still as you call them "emotional vampire" lol, well, I will really have to do something assertive. I really need to protect myself.

Thanks hon for your understading and sympathy, God bless you!!!

June 20, 2007
7:59 pm
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Folks, please keep me in your prayers and I will keep you posted as I am bumping this thread to GG!!!

June 20, 2007
8:14 pm
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Gee Ras, you may not like what first came in my mind here. I think she wants to sit by you, if she is jealous, maybe she just likes you and wishes she were like you??? If you don't like it at all, and it sounds that way, the only thing left to me is the "musical chair" idea if you can't confront her.

I may be totally wrong here...just an assumption.

June 20, 2007
8:21 pm
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Rasputin
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I don't think she likes me. She may wants to become like me. I know I can't explain everything about this woman, but her behaviour is wrong.

Control is unhealhty and it's the opposite of love. Did you read about the part when I joined the choir, how she was pursuing me and changing her time and seat to match time. I know I can't write everything about this woman, BUT WE Should TRUST out GUT FeeLINGS, and my gut feelings tell me that I don't feel comfy to her. This is Harrassment!!!

GG: Pursuing people and controlling and harrassing them is NOT love.

I know you're tired, your ability to reason is not at its best right now. Thanks hon for your support!!!xoxoxo

June 20, 2007
8:35 pm
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Isis
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Hi Ras,

You know, I was thinking the same thing as GG. Could it be that this woman just genuinely likes you? Likes to be around you? Feels the love and positive energy from you? Feels like she is learning from you? Learning to not be as resentful? Perhaps your positive attitude towards life and church is rubbing off on her?

I dunno... I know where you're coming from though- being a gal who has been used and abused- working on your own recovery and all. Sometimes it's not easy for us to let our guard down. We don't want to get burnt again- ever.

Maybe setting some boundaries would help. Let her know what you're comfortable with- perhaps tell her sometimes you need a little space.
If she knows anything about you- your past, I'm almost positive she would understand.

I know it's not easy- opening yourself up, risking getting hurt.
It's called self-preservation, and it's human nature to protect ourselves, especially when we've been so hurt in the past.

You never know, she may find you a positive healthy person, and want to have you in her life.

Just my thoughts.

Best wishes,

Isis

June 20, 2007
8:44 pm
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Isis
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Sorry Ras, looks like we cross-posted.

"She said a number of things to me that indicated her jealousy, resentment and control over me. She also manifested a number of attributes of classical codep person. So, I'm basing my vibes here on practical stuff. She is really UNHEALTHY person."

What did she say and do Ras? Why do you think she is jealous of you? And, if you don't mind me asking- how old are you Ras? This woman is seventy?
Maybe she sees you as sort of a granddaughter type?

Just wondering.

June 20, 2007
8:48 pm
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"GG: Pursuing people and controlling and harrassing them is NOT love.

I know you're tired, your ability to reason is not at its best right now. Thanks hon for your support!!!xoxoxo"

WOW RAS! What's up with that? Here again, when you don't get the response you're looking for, you resort to statements like that.

I respectfully withdraw from the conversation.

Best of luck,

Isis

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