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I DON'T MEAN TO DO IT
October 20, 2000
3:59 pm
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DANE
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SOMETIMES WHEN MY WIFE AND I FIGHT WE HIT EACH OTHER. IT'S NOT ALWAYS ME STARTING THE HITTING, BUT IT'S LIKE A REACTION. WHEN I GET HIT I HIT BACK. WE DO LOVE EACH OTHER VERY MUCH, BUT HAVE NO ANGER CONTROL. WE ARE BOTH SCORPIOS, I DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT BUT OTHER PEOPLE SEEM TO THINK THAT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT. ANYWAY WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT GOING TO COUNSELING BUT NEITHER OF US REALLY WANT TO.

October 20, 2000
5:36 pm
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Brenda
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how pathetic, if you truly care about yourself, let alone your wife, you will get the counselling you so truly need and deserve. I pray there are no children.

October 21, 2000
3:09 pm
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janes
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I agree with Brenda

BOTH OF YOU NEED TO HAVE COUNSELING NOW!!!!!

October 23, 2000
12:55 pm
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DANE
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Yea I agree. But where to start, a shrink? The world is full of pathetic people, and you Brenda are one also! Instead of telling me what your personal view is why don't you tell me something useful, like a good avenue to pursue. Anger management, psychological, what??

October 23, 2000
6:45 pm
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Molly
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Gee, I can understand why the hitting starts, get help, and you allready based on your response know what you need. Some times behaviors start, and cycles develop, break it by being different. Is substance abuse involved, both scorpios its likely. Get sober, get clean get to the dynamics, ie., your up bringing, are you your father stuff, and leave poor Brenda alone, Duh none of would be here if we were perfect. you know you need help, and are acting out, she said the perfect thing. If you don't mean to do it, don't , get help, and I too hope that neither of you have reproduced.

October 30, 2000
6:01 am
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hazza
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dane,
try not to react to strongly to what others have said here.
They are actually saying it because they care and sometimes we have to be hit by the truth full in the face, it hurts yes, but sometimes it can be the best favour you could ever recieve.
many of us have been on the recieving end of anger as well as giving it out.

your ealise that there is a problem, whichis brilliant, now you need to face that porblema nd not give up when it becomes uncomfortable - you need to push through all that ego and pride stuff because sorting this out will give you REAL peace of mind and happiness. Trust me - it IS worth it.

tlak with your wife first off, you BOTH need to decide that you BOTH want to break this cycle.
you are both in love with each other but you BOTH have some bad ideas of how to show that love, and it boils into violence.

You need to decide that you want to change, you need to be prepared that this will feel odd at first.
just because you both decide not to get so angry and violent anymore, does not mean either of you care any less for each other, it is just that you both need to show that love n a healthy way.

DO go for coucelling together if possible. but TALK - find out about how each of you feels about the violence, discuss ways in which you can both find a way to calm down and stop before it gets that far.
if you can BOTH see the real need to change this behaviour then you will find the strength to do so.

sometimes we just get cought up in replaying patterns of behaviour that we have experienced ourselves, we never question what is right or wrong about them until it is too late and damage is caused.
now is the time for you to both question how you show your love for each other. it is time to learn to stop the violence, and you will be able to do it, but do get the help that is out there, because it will help you both in the long run.
peace
Hazza

October 30, 2000
12:19 pm
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DANE
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Yea, thanks Hazza-

October 30, 2000
4:30 pm
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hazza
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Dane,
Do keep us posted on how youa re getting on, I am sure you must have felt like you recieved a hostile response from people here, but they jkust tell it how it is.
I "know" each of the people who have posted to you from talking with them on this site for many months now, they tell it how it is because deep down - we HAVE to face reality and real friends tell you when you are screwing up - do you knwo what I mean?!
But let me tell you all of these people who have posted to you are very caring people, they are not saying anything just to reprimand you, just telling it straigth to you that is all! These people and this site have helped me SO much. These are the most caring folks you will meet - each of us here have been through these sort of things, and I think we all tend to see people going down the same path we have done and just get angry because we don't want them to feel the same pain we have felt.
So give us all another chance hey?!

My relationship was like you describe your being now. A whole heap of love was there, more than most people get ina life time, but it was being express the wrong way. The anger causes pain.
if you can jsut look honestly at yourself and see where YOU are going wrong, that will be the best thing you can ever do, great if you can BOTH do this together, but whatever happens do look to yourself and make yourself a better person.
Anger is a strong emotion - it is really hard to let it go sometimes, but you must let it go because you can get mad and make sure you win every battle, but in the end you will just have lost the war because you will have spent your whole life full of negative emotions.
Try at first just to learn the warning signs of your own anger. Does your anger "catch you by surprise"? or do you feel it coming on? what do youthink would be a good way of stopping yourself getting to that boiling point?
Do you use drink / drugs / food? to avoid the anger or to calm yourself?
be honest with me dude! this stuff will make you happier!
My partner used alcohol alot with his anger problems. I wouls fight back at first, but after a while I just died inside - believe me you dont want that happening to you or your lady.
BUT we did sort a lot of things out. he does not drink or do drugs now, he is learning to control his anger, he is educating himself, and by God he is happier man than I have ever seen him before.
you can CHOOSE your attitude to any thing in this life, that is about the one thing that is certain. you can choose to let the anger go . ask yourself, is it really worth it?
if something is wrong you must change it calmly, but you dont need to fight your way through life - sometimes we have to fight and struggle as kids, but we are adults now - we have more choices.
Gandhi, nelson Mandela - many others had choices - they could get angry on the wrong way, or they could get angry in the right way - look what power they hadwhen the acted as a together balanced person despite all that was wrong in their lives and societys.
it is not easy and it takes practice to change the habits of a life time. You wont be able to do it perfectly at first, but keep at it. Peace feels GOOD! better than any drink or drug I have ever done, and I have looked for the answers there before!
it is about learning the difference between Pride and dignity.
Pride can make us dig our heels in, dignity is where we go to sleep at night knwoing that we did the best thing we could.
Admitting that you are currently getting too angry is great, to admit that takes dignity. You can and will do it, and I hope your partner does also, but just do what it takes to change this behaviour.
If you drink or drug - why? you don't need it, get off of it.
if you feel yourself getting drawn into arguments, then back of. Drink a cup of tea, sit quietly and work out WHAT is making you so mad, express that calmly to yoursel f and find a way through it.
best of luck
Hazza

October 30, 2000
5:21 pm
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DANE
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I really appreciate the feedback. I will hang in there and keep you posted. I am planning on starting uop the A.A. again. I've been back and forth in the program so many times that it's pathetic. I want something out of this life. I have a great job and really can't afford to loose it. I find myself calling in too hung over to make it in, and I know that I don't have too many more of those b4 it's gone. I have to do something now.

October 30, 2000
6:26 pm
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Molly
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Keep going to AA , it works as much as you do, you might address TEZ, directly, I have tremendous respect for him, and he has fought similar issues, self disclosed. As an addictions counselor, I have found through my clients, that all had a pain, that needed to be labeled, most discovered through extensive inventories, done, not once but several times. Hazza is right, we are not perfect, its always easier to call some one elses shots clearly, but we do understand the difficulty, and there is hard to imagine support, when you feel all alone. I would also recommend Dr.David Viscot's books, as well as Rational Recovery for spare time reading some alternatives to the road to recovery. Best of luck.

November 1, 2000
1:09 pm
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Messy
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If you guys so not want to go to counselling then I think you need some distance from each other Until then here are some anger managment steps that you and she can follow:

Stop and think
Take three deep breaths
Count backwards from ten
Do pleasant imagery
Identify your internal and external triggers
Give Yourself Reminfers
Think ahead
Self Evaluate

November 3, 2000
8:37 pm
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Ash
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Hi Dane;
I poke my head in here every so often and your thread caught my attention. I have to agree with some of what's been said already...that anger management would be a good place to start, and losing the on-again off-again alcohol dependency. Here's a good starting point - the rule of protection; protection from physical harm and protection from disrespectful words. In a heated situation, a 20 minute cooling off period is beneficial - take a walk, sit outside, go for a drive; that kind of thing. You'll see things in a different perspective when you return, and be in a better mind set to discuss the real issues. You're not the only one who has to make an effort here. Don't think that in the least and good luck.

November 6, 2000
12:18 pm
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hazza
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Hi Dane,
I see that this thread started out with talking about your anger, but now we are talking about your alcohol addiction too. that is great progress, because you need to work on ALL the things at once really dont you.
give it another try, remember, YOU make that choice to hold that drink up to your mouth and take that sip. YOU choose it, and you can choose NOT to, your hands do not do it automatically , YOU make them pour the drink, so YOU can stop also.
Get the help and the support you can find out there and decide in yourself that whatever way youa re gonna make a change for the better.
do it for YOU, you wont regret it, it will be hard - but you can do it, it is a challenge yes, but mankind is good at taking on challenges,and you are the same old species! youc an do it, but you have to want to more than anything.
you just have to believe me when I tell you that it will be the best thing you can do. if you fail, look at find out what went wrong, then keep on trying and decide to try even harder this time.
get to know yourself and find out what it is in your mind that is screwing you up int here, you will know what it is that is needing to be looked at - we all know deep down what is in there, but look at it and sort it through, dont run away from it into alcolhol and voilence. take it apart and work on it.
Good luck
peace to you
Hazza

November 12, 2000
6:09 am
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Ruth
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Dane,

I was raised in a violent, poor home. My parents fought a lot. My dad was a very angry person. He was nice until the least little thing was done to provoke him...and then it was hitting time. As his child, I have inherited the tendancy towards uncontrolled rage, but I chose early on to embrace that as my dark side and work on my lighter side. To develop myself as a decent, peace loving, upstanding human being that could be respected, trusted, and loved. Now I am married, and though me and my husband argue, and somethings he says really hurt me...when I get really heartbroken feeling in our arguing, I have VERY strong urges to hit, but I walk away. The very best thing I can recommend to you is to have the ole heart to heart with your wife and establish that you both want to save your marriage. And like no promise you have ever made before, swear to eachother that you will not yell...no matter how passionate you feel towards your side of the argument. Yelling starts it all...and then before you know it, the camel's back is broken. If this doesn't work, try seeking out others like you. They can provide you with good places to go. Sometimes it helps a lot just to talk to someone who is in the same or was in the same boat as you are.

November 13, 2000
5:32 pm
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DANE
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Guys, thanks!!
I think I have found a place where people really can relate to what's going on. There has been so much feedback (positive) I love it-
Will update you soon on my progress-

November 18, 2000
9:17 am
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Helpless Sister
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Dane, you have real courage and it seems you really love your mate and yourself enough to want to change. Following through on AA and professional counseling will make your life better than you can ever imagine. I'm suffering immensely watching my sister slowly die inside at the hands of her mentally (and maybe physically) abusive boyfriend of 8 1/2 years. My husband wants to beat the living hell out of him, me too. This man doesn't deserve the precious oxygen he consumes. This guy is evil sober or drunk/stoned. He thinks there's nothing wrong with him, it's all my sister's fault. It sounds like alchohol is the main thing bringing you down. At least you know you're not perfect, which nobody is. You've already begun to change for the better. Keep going. You CAN do it if you want to.

November 18, 2000
6:25 pm
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Dane.
If your "boundary riding" in AA, maybe it's that you haven't done the first step properly. It's the only step that can be done 100%.

Are you powerless over alcohol?

And, when your drinking, is your life unmanageable?

If you have any reservations about answering a resounding yes to both these questions then you certainly will keep "busting".

Of course there's much more to staying sober than just that. But it's critical just the same.

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