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I cannot in good conscience post in WD's story digest thread
May 18, 2004
2:30 am
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sue2001
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I have been reading WD's thread.

I don't have the beautiful written words of Zinnie, it is harder for me to tell it like it is with out hurting feelings. SC I know that what I am about to say may not be in the guidelines, but I really feel the need to voice this. IF I am out of line and I will try my best to not step out of bounds please just go on and cut this.

Here goes, annastars' post in WD's thread sound abusive to me. At first I just skipped over what she wrote because frankly she didn't stay on the subject and was very distracting. But when I saw so many people conversing with her in his post I thought I should see what she says. I can't really pin point exactly what it is that I find abusive but I get that in the pit of my stomach. I have never been physically abused but I have been mentally and verbally abused and I get that same pain in the pit of my stomach when I read her posts. I don't know that it might be just a misunderstanding in what she is saying or that I just ain't getting her point. I don't know what it is but I am very wary I physically shake and dang near cry over her posts. I don't know if any one else feels this or if it is just me being to sensitive. I hurt for WD and I want to do something for him but I don't know what I can do except that he know's I am hear and reading his story.

I don't know what I expect from this new thread. I just want it to be known that I am not feeling hmm I don't know the best word for this maybe "safe" with annastar's response to WD's story.

Sue

May 18, 2004
7:26 am
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Zinnie
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I understand what you are saying Sue. You will notice, I have tried to refrain from posting on his thread as it is his story and for his own mental health, must be told.

Occasionally, I will post, and the last few days, he specifically mentions me, so I have replied. But, yet found that the replies to my post got somehow convuluted.

I'm also feeling that I have somehow upset Free, without meaning to.

So, perhaps I had just best refrain from posting - no matter the bait thrown.

But, yes, I certainly understand what you are saying.

Z.

May 18, 2004
8:39 am
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nancee
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I feel the same way. I have been following his story and feel deeply for him because I know how painful it must be for him to go over each detail. There is something disturbing about some of the posts in response to his story and I feel that is at the very least distracting to him when he is trying to relate his story. I don't know what can be done about this but I think there are many of us who feel something is not quite right.

May 18, 2004
10:16 am
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Worried_Dad
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I said this in the star called anna thread, but let me try to restate.

annastar wants to talk. She may even need to talk, hard to tell. But she is young and impulsive and not-quite socialized to politeness.

In her eagerness to connect, and her jumping on innappriate posts to insert material into, it comes out sounding like one non-sequitur after another.

Because she has not done the work of actually being introspective about her own relationships, and probably has not studied healthy human boundaries, she brings that um...lack of perspective to her responses to me, and perhaps others. Therefore she sometimes comes across sounding like....guestguest or somebody.

Although it made me uncomfortable for guestguest to say ~abuse happens because victims have poor self-esteem~ that was an interesting point and worth a few lines of consideration. The trouble came when he/she would not consider the idea that no, abuse happens because some people are abusers. That gave his/her posts a troll-like flavor to me and a few others.

Consequently guestguest came briefly under suspicion of "playing for the other side." After SC vouched for guest-guest as a non-troll like entity things settled down.

A similar thing happened with annastar, who just so happens to sympathize with and identify with "D" in some ways. Some of us will think "what is she thinking?" and some of us will think "yes she's right--couldn't WD see that D just wanted him soooo bad...."

May 18, 2004
11:25 am
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Worried_Dad
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And I do appreciate that no one has tried to "take me to task" about being "codependent", which I will from here on refer to as "the 'C' word."

And if you do, make another thread for it.

May 18, 2004
11:31 am
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sue2001
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I can understand annastar jumping inappriopatly with her own story I have done that myself. I have butted in with stuff that only made sense in my own head, I have been there but what I mean is that she sounds as if she just absolutly cannot get what you are saying and almost to the point of yes argueing with you about the feelings and details of your story!

Like she is doing it on purpose to bait you or anyone else. You have asked her to not post her story in your thread but she still does. You are such a good guy about this and patient with her.

Sue

May 18, 2004
12:45 pm
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annastar
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I am glad- WD understands what we were trying to do. I think- it was exciting- we had grate time, to we had some thing accomplished, and then “you” with your comments. I mean- if you can not fallow- just ask- what are you, guys, doing? Not sure we can explain… Have you ever heard about role playing? See- I am not “D”- I am individual person, happened to have partly similar background with “D”, which does not mean- I handled it same as she would. But in this situation- I have a feeling that WD has a lot to say to that woman, has unresolved issues with her- he just can not get her to listen. So- if he can say it to me- I can be “D” for him for a session. Which not as he would ask me to do so for him. It also matter of opinion. Some stuff he is talking about just drives me nuts. It just- so often I can see the other side of the story. I have a lot of sympathy to WD, but I also feel sorry hearing- he hurt so bad knowing- it can be easier on him if he can just see the other side and understand that some actions was not meant to be against of him, but were the result of actions of them both. Like a dance. Using my life as an example is part of dynamics of conversation. It is not always about details- it is about words, colors, emotional state. May be- my state at the moment,to lead him to a right response, because in reality- it is not about WD and “D”- at some point- it between us, playing we or not- it is just 2 people emotions. If you constantly skip some one’s posts, and suddenly decided- you want to read them- you may miss the point! Besides- talking about emotions and feeling of “anger” from my site…He really did said few things that could trigger anger and hate from me, because- I am not always talking to WD and here it from WD. Yes, WD- that part about…You know what Am I talking about. He is good! I mean- he is! I feel some thing- I keep doing it. I don’t feel anything- I give up, and it felt good- for Sunday night “Message board” discussion. About being polite- I try- when I can. When I have to. And I was. I also trying to be real- otherwise it will not work. So- for a future- if it feels distracting for you and you want to hear just plain story, ask WD to post it as a story only and make rules about what comments he will and will not accept. I may say some thing, may not- not sure how I will feel, but- if you like to talk, WD, please, stop by in my tread and we will talk more. For everyone else- please, welcome to our discussion- we appreciate any feedback, because we know this is your emotions and feelings. And we respect it and want to know about it.
Love ya all, A. Star.

May 18, 2004
1:05 pm
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sue2001
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Worried_Dad
4-May-04

Hi All,
The original thread became rather bloated, so I have clipped together my own posts and here they are. I do want to get through this, so maybe keep length of reponses short, or go to another thread? The original thread could be deleted, if no one objects. I will post here from now on.

He did ask that responses to go to another thread so that he can get through this.

I have said all I will say on this matter.

Sue

May 18, 2004
1:52 pm
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annastar
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He said- keep length of reponses short, or go to another thread? Other words- keep it simple. I think- we had them all short- just like he ask.And- I was not the only one who posted, and not only one who mentioned personal stuff, and my posts was not the biggest. Provocative- may be- sorry- did not know how to brake trough to him otherwise. But thank you- we'll keep it even shorter!

May 18, 2004
6:20 pm
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Wanttobewell
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I've not communicated very much at all with WD. I have followed his story, and hope above everything that he finds his son. I don't understand Annastar at all. So I suppose this isn't my business at all, but I did read the posts, and there was just something about them that made me uncomfortable also. I was wondering if anyone else felt that way, so I have my answer. I finally just stopped reading them at all, as I just didn't really get what was happening. Not meaning to offend anyone at all, just found it all a bit strange. W.

May 18, 2004
6:34 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Sorry, Wantobewell.

it is a strange story.

May 18, 2004
6:50 pm
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Anonymous
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Worried Dad-

You have always helped me and listened when I come posting and crying about my jacked up situation, and I think that the main thing for us to focus on is how you felt about this thread. If you weren't bothered I don't see an issue. I think that in her way of coming across, it was hard for a lot of us to not be bothered, but it comes down to you and how you feel.

May 18, 2004
7:05 pm
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Worried_Dad
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I felt a bit frustrated. And I felt judged. That is because I was judged.

May 18, 2004
11:29 pm
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rat
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I am one of the many who have read WD's tragic story (and Annastar's comments) yet seldom post a reply. In one of annastar's posts, she talks about "my country". Is it possible there is a language barrier here? She knows English, but she has extremely poor grammar skills and I often find it difficult to understand her meaning at all.

WD, my heart goes out to you. I wish you all the best in your endeavors.

May 18, 2004
11:36 pm
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Anonymous
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Would WD and annastar be willing to say one kind thing to the other? Surely you see something positive in each other or this would not have become so volatile and tender.

I see sincerity and passion in both of you. Can you see that in each other? If you respect it in yourselves, can you respect it in each other?

I believe you already do.

May 18, 2004
11:39 pm
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annastar
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Well- how do you talk to people with out talking to them? It was no one in a board and we were just hanging out there, talking about WDs story. We could talk about my- in other thread- it does not matter- long as we had some thing to talk about. Then we had other guys joined us- it was friendly and pleasant. It was no signs that it bothering some one else. You had some thing to say- why didn’t you just say it? WD could mentioned- “I’d like to continue my story with out comments- please, go away.” I would. But it was not an issue at a moment. More over- it was no signs- he is ready to post next part. We could be waiting another 3 days for it- so- is it o.k- we talk some, wile we waiting? I did not mean to judge you, WD- who am I to judge. But same time just saying what you want to hear does not make a sense. I felt upset- you have so much negative emotions about your partner- this is why I offered “forgiveness- acceptance” I thought- it may make you feel better. Now- I felt judged for what am I saying, what am I doing and so on. You all so worry of how my comments may affect WD- why don’t you think how it feels to me. It was crazy day- I explaining myself all day long- how long do I have to do that- to I get the point? Last night- I could not sleep, thinking about this. If my posts such a big problem for you - fine- I am not going to post anything. Do we all have to stop talk to WD or just me? Can I talk to some one else? It just stops making sense at all. Thank you for listening.
P.S. Yes, I have grammar problems and spelling problems and- yes- posting is my way to practice in writing, if you would not mind. Thank you for asking.

May 19, 2004
12:37 am
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free
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Sue, this thread needed to happen. Good job.

Zinnie- you've Never offended me. I dunno what gave you that impression- sorry about that. I know I'm not reading or posting as much- it's the last month of school and I'm a teacher so time's a little short. I've been just reading a little here and there- particulary interested in wd's thread, and I'll tell ya, it's probably best for me to get off the site sometimes kuz annastar's posts on that thread as well as this one have really brought up some issues with me. her posts are antagonizing to me. I know that's my issue and I'm working on it. But never meant to ignore ya or give ya a negative impression. Hugs to you Z. Hugs and hugs.

I'm struggling with NOT getting involved emotionally with her posts, or engage in a conversation with her, because I only echo the sentiments stated above, and I'm a sucker for mind games. That's what I see her posts as being. Plain and simple.

Like I've said before wd, you've much more patience than I, and are to be commended for it as I find that trait admirable.

free

May 19, 2004
12:50 am
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annastar
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Well- see- may be this is why I talk to him!

May 19, 2004
1:18 am
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Renai

wd's shown plenty of respect towards annastar and has said plenty of good things to her. Being assertive is a good thing. There is no fight occurring that needs to be mediated. Things are not volatile and tender. Annastar's posts appear self-centered and insensitive. Who knows what the reasons for that are. That's about as dramatic as it gets.

free

May 19, 2004
1:43 am
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gingerleigh
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I think there is definitely a language and cultural barrier going on. I think there is something else too... a fundamental difference in where people are coming from, and I don't think we all have an understanding of where everyone else's starting blocks are.

I also have been rankled slightly by annastar's posts, but they have been posted with such seeming sincerity and conviction that I'm not sure what to respond with, so I have thus far chosen not to respond at all.

I don't want to gang up on annastar. And I feel like that is what we are doing here. But at the same time, I want to be able to explain to her that her posts are upsetting to people, and be able to explain exactly why they are and how she could better communicate without alienating the rest of the posters here. I'm at a loss however.

Wow, there's a first. Gingerleigh without a hothead response. I think that cracking I just heard was Hell freezing over.

May 19, 2004
3:14 am
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Anonymous
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I apologize if I have spoken out of turn. I don't mean to give the impression that I'm out to mediate, so you have a good point, Free.

It took a long time for me to work up the nerve to write anything here. In part because there was a bunch of stuff about someone called "Blondie" and I got the idea that whatever happened there was pretty serious. I let it intimidate me. But I always noticed more positive than negative going on so I finally decided to reach out.

I tend to feel like I have to be the peace-maker all the time. It's kind of the way I grew up, I guess.

Being so new here, it might have been better for me to leave this alone. I hoped that by writing what I did, that both annastar and WD would see I'm not on anyone's side because I have seen some positive qualities in both of them. I haven't really interacted with either of them, so my opinion doesn't really matter. It just leaves me feeling a bit sad to see this happen in a place that is generally so full of positive things.

I guess that's all I have to say about this.

R.

May 19, 2004
12:49 pm
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sue2001
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ok I said i would not say anything else on this matter and I won't about that.

I didn't start this thread however to gang up on annastar. I felt that there was something about her posts that I didn't feel safe about. That is why I started another thread because I sure wasn't going to interept WD's story with what I thought might happen.

I don't want it to seem like I or anyone was judging annastar. I knew (figured) there was a language barrier and I have tried to work around that.

I started this thread to find out if I was the only one that felt that unsafe feeling. As this is a problem I try to work on myself. You know about not being brave enough to say something when I am bothered.

Sue

May 19, 2004
7:47 pm
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Zinnie
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This is my "interpretation" for lack of a better word, and again, only my impression - so feel free to ignore it or disagree.

I do believe that in the case of Annastar, there are some language barriers as she has said English is not her first language. Possibly, there very well could be some cultural issues as after all, this is a great big world. So perhaps that is where some of the mis-understandings are coming from, as most of us that are posting are from North America, although I know we have several UK posters too.

But... I also think that Annastar came here, like most of us have in the past to work out her issues that she is facing.

Now, several of the comments she has made have appeared to "side" with "D" in Worried Dad's story. Annastar has even freely admitted that. So, perhaps, what is rankling folks and yes, making them uncomfortable is the fact that she is admitting she feels this way. But, because of the language difference it comes out instead of "explaining" as belittling to Worried Dad. Yet, if you re-read the post and think about it, you will see that - and again, this is my opinion only - she is looking for answers as to why HER life is not working out, and what does SHE need to change. But, again as the language barrier comes into play it is not coming out exactly right.

So, look at it this way... how many of us in dealing with the people in our lives, many of whom are the very reason we are here - didn't we all at some point in time in our lives during (or even now) our relationships with them wish, hope, pray, beg, cry, plead for them to get help for themselves? Didn't we hope they would get the help they needed to change, not only for our benefit, but for their own good too? We all have, admit it.

So, I guess while everyone should excercise caution on the Internet (yes, sadly still brining up the Blondie episode), and keeping in mind that although we are here for positive things, there are "lurkers" who may or may not be here - let's also try to understand that maybe, just maybe Annastar is really here trying to get help for herself - as she has stated. At the same time, Annastar when you read this post, perhaps I would suggest re-reading what you have written before hitting send - just to make sure it is really what you want to say.

Z.

May 19, 2004
8:09 pm
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natty
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Well said Zinnie. As always, you are the calm voice of reason. I wish you were my mum!!

May 19, 2004
10:55 pm
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Thank you, Zinnie, I knew- you will not live me alone on it and with all my respect- your opinion is very valuable. Thank you to everyone else who showed understanding here- I appreciate your support- I sure need it.

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