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Hving an obsessive night on no contact
November 15, 2005
8:12 pm
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exoticflower
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I'm having a rough night with no contact, and with trying to clear my head of some anger and hurt that just sort of popped out of nowhere and is bringing up my shame based codep mindset, though not the behaviors (yet, gulp). I've cleaned, I've scrappbooked, I've played with my daughter (who is tired of me now, played out I guess)...I'm hoping venting will clear it up some as those things really didn't.

I'm just feeling put off by my ex in a strange way--he has been sending me letters at 11:00 or midnight every night, and i know he does his mail thing when he gets home from classes after work (he is a teacher in NY where you learn as you go durring their emergency educator shortage). When we where working things out the first time, I found out later that he was seeing or involving himself emotionally with whatever girl he sat next to in literally each of his classes, and now it's all I can think of. After he abused me, destroyed parts of me that I am still putting back togeather, tried to put my daughter in the middle, then in this last visit filled my silly little head with hope in an indirect way that maybe he was working on himself...how unfair is it that he gets to be with someone else! Aurgh! And that he will undoubtedly mistreat, use, lie to, maybe even abuse her too! I am sure that not a one of these girls knows about our involvement while he was involved with him, and i am sure they do not know that when he was here last he was trying to emotionally hook me (if he wanted me or not, just wanting me to want HIM, you know)...I don't know why I am obsessing or hurt or frustrated right now, I was in a pretty good place for a bit there, but could use some insight. And I don't even know why I would have that longing or hope after what he did to me (if anyone recalls, the abuse was very severe), makes me feel like a bit of a sicko.

I guess I know that a lot of it is that I am still hoping that he will see his wrongs and get help, even though there is nothing to indicate so...i guess he got in my head in this past visit more than I thought. Feedback? PLEEEEEAse? thanks all in advance!

November 15, 2005
8:13 pm
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exoticflower
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I did tell him no more contact would be welcome, by the way. Just hate this unhealthy toxic feeling that is quite out of nowhere...why can't I just move past this? Why does it stay in my head even when I am doing all the work on me I possibly can?

November 15, 2005
8:20 pm
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exoticflower
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One more thing: the reason it is in my mind is because before I was direct with him and said that I didn't understand his motivations and set some boundaries, he was writing at 9:30 or 10 when he would be directly home rom class. But as soon as he saw he was getting nowhere with me without work, owning his behavior, and real tangible effort on his part, the letters started coming late, which is when I stopped letting myself be sucked in (this has all transpired in about a week and a half). Clearly he was taking a break from someone while trying to put an idea of availability, responsability, what have you into my head, and now he's back to his regular life and I feel like an idiot. I guess i wasn't even aware that some deep down part of me really wanted to believe it or hope.

November 15, 2005
8:26 pm
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lessthanalive
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ef- god hunny, you and me are in the same place right now. i havn't even come on here to write the past few days but i am glad i came on here tonight. sounds like your mad at yourself for longing for him, for believing in him even when he has never given you a reason too. i do (am doing the same thing.) how dare they be with someone else, how dare they be happy, how dare they have any sort of life at all after what they have done, and how dare i for caring. we have been victemized by others desies, but we are not the victems. this too shall pass and the bottom line is he is not well. you know that. you know this is all part of him being HIGHLY unwell. and it sucks because your eyes are open here where they would have been closed before. your not falling for it this time and i amagine this is so hard. you know how when your daughter gets her shots, they have to make her sick before she gets well and the desiese will not effect her ever again. kinda the same thing. your doing well, ef. dont beat yourself up for caring. even if it's for him.

November 15, 2005
8:29 pm
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lessthanalive
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also, you are moving past this!! your moving past and through and over and all that other crap, thats why you hurt. this is a speed bump. you will make it through, hun. no doubt about it.

November 15, 2005
8:37 pm
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kc30
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((((ef)))))

I can sooooo relate to the feelings and thoughts you are describing.

I am going through some similar stuff myself now that the divorce is almost final. I feel sad and I feel angry that he wasn't/isn't who he was supposed to be (according to me, that is!)

I don't want to feel sad. I want to be over it, so I'm stuffing feelings because I don't want them. But they're creeping out in those same unhealthy ways they always do...obsessing...over whatever I can find to keep me distracted enough so that I don't have to deal with my feelings.

I can tell when I'm sliding now...and so can you.

Remember what we used to say...when we find ourselves backsliding...we just need to wait...wait...wait...

It feels like we're going backwards, but it's just growing pains!! I just remembered that tonight and it made me feel better.

Think of the pain and the yuckies and the obsessing as the pain that accompanies growth...that something is being worked out and set right in the background, but we can't see it yet. We can FEEL the pain of growth, but the results aren't obvious yet.

I am going to sit tight and ride it out...and not beat myself up anymore. I have been in worse states than this in the past, and come out of them stronger and healthier. This will pass.

I don't know about you...but i was up WAY too late last night, and being tired leaves me vulnerable to my bad feelings. So sleep is a must.

And tomorrow is a new day.

I'm with you sweetie. Hang tough. I'm going to try and find something from Melody's book to help...I'll share it if it's a good one.

kc

November 15, 2005
8:53 pm
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exoticflower
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Thanks so much guys...I hate that getting healthy is so often not REWARDING, but is rather greuling, you know? Of course there is the reward of not being hunched in a corner hating myself and being abused, the reward of being able to enjoy my life with my daughter, the reward of knowing I am being treated with dignanty by myself rather than being abused by another.

Sounds pretty flashy, but i gotta admit that I don't actually feel any better for knowing these things. Ah, self pitty. plth (that would be the sound of me blowing a rasberry).

I think I may just leark around here for a while till the urge passes to call an yell and cuss or worse still just to drag out all of his old letters and highlight all the lies to fuel my fire. I guess that 6 months ago that is what I would be doing, I do agree that this is proof of progress, but what lousy proof!! It hinght it was in pudding, and instead it's in long nights of obsessing, but being aware that I am! Injustice! 🙂

Well, at least I can laugh at myself. Thanks so much you guys.

November 15, 2005
9:03 pm
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kc30
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I found a good one...at least for me- Apparently, I'm in a slump!!

I'm going to work on acceptance...accepting the feelings that I'm having and feeling them and releasing them. I've been fighting them and avoiding them for nearly 3 weeks now...time to face them and be done, I guess, so I can get back to the business of living my best life 🙂

November 15, 2005
9:57 pm
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exoticflower
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Thank you KC...it's actually so bad now that I went through my garage looking for Christmas decorations and decked out the house to distract myself...there's NO WAY this is living my best life (though Martha Stuart would definately approve of whatever unhealthy issues make a two bedroom shack look this great!!!)

November 15, 2005
11:54 pm
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angel4U
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LOL!!! You crack me up, ef! If you still have energy, you're more than welcome to come decorate my house too for the holidays!!! Pops and my kittie would appreciate it, too, I'm sure .... =)

(btw - I have been meaning to tell you that there have been "numerous" times that I have looked at a thread and for some reason had a "very strong" hunch it was yours before I opened it. And then walla, there you are in bold headlights at the top. Very interesting ... and very cool!)

ok, onto business, but unfortunately I don't have long as I am over tired from staying up WAY passed my bedtime last night. Here's my best shot from one exhausted chick that's been out of the loop for awhile, so please forgive me if I'm WAY off base ...

You said " did tell him no more contact would be welcome, by the way." When did you do this? Are you saying that you asked him not to contact you, but he is doing so anyway, and this is part of what is making you peeved?

You also said: "the reason it is in my mind is because before I was direct with him and said that I didn't understand his motivations and set some boundaries, he was writing at 9:30 or 10 when he would be directly home rom class. But as soon as he saw he was getting nowhere with me without work, owning his behavior, and real tangible effort on his part, the letters started coming late ..."

In his early letters, was it just small talk, or was he flirting with you and making an effort to get back together? Also, did you ask him what his intentions were and outline what you were looking for from him/your relationship? How did the letters change from the early ones to later? Could his change in responses be from you putting up a wall, too? (mind you, after what you have been through, I don't blame you for doing so if you did.)

Also a tip that helps me ... don't try to assume what or why he is doing what he is doing. It could be for any number of reasons, and trying to figure it out will drive you absolutely bazeerko!!! Instead, ask him directly. And if he does not respond with an answer, than make your decision from there on how to handle it.

What I see (but don't want to put words in your mouth) is that you are struggling so much with wanting to trust and love him again, and any twinge of hope brings up all those memories of the betrayal you felt from him in the past, as well as possible fears of it happening again. And then your wall of defense goes up to protect yourself. And possibly guilt sets in because you feel that part of why you can't be together is because you know you can't trust him yet, and maybe never will ... And then anger sets in at him for not being able to just fix it and make it all ok again.

Is this close?

November 16, 2005
8:37 am
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Hi ef, your mind is tricking you here. i could be wrong here but...you might want him because you think you can't have him. some of us are really into this whole thing of making someone love us even if they can't. perhaps they can, but not like we need them to. letting go of these people seems impossible. i know because i've been here. you need to turn this around for you. you need to read the book "it's called a break up because it's broken." that book helped me a ton in terms of realizing the scraps i was ok with in terms of what my bf was able to give me. don't take scraps!! a big huge hug from me. get that book if you can. it clicked with me completely...i have hard days but when i realize how little i was okay with, i am truly amazed. you deserve the best, not one ounce less.((((ef)))))

hp

November 16, 2005
9:21 am
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msguud
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Dear KC30 - what you wrote on NOvember 15 hit home for me. That's almost exactly how I feel in every aspect of what you wrote. The wait wait wait is so hard. I know in the end result it is best to wait out the urge to contact. I'm not going to contact, as I don't know where to contact him anyway, so thank god for small miracles. I read somewhere that we set up this person to be our higher power and we're doomed. Well, that's what I did and it worked just like they said. So now I keep repeating to myself a thousand times a day: God is my higher power, God is my higher power, and hopefully that will sink in.

Ms. Exotic flower - I know, I know how to sit in a corner and hate myself too. But let's not do that just for today. We deserve better than that, and anyway, we have nothing to hate ourselves for.

Let's all remember to keep posting here when we're feeling down and antsy. I really need all of you and there's strength in numbers. Let's all try to have a better day. Peace to all of you

November 16, 2005
9:42 am
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exoticflower
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Angel, you probably subconciously knew it was me becasue of the big misspelling in the title! :)giggle:)

The tone of the letters was subtly flirtacious, just writing to let me know that he was thinking of me and how special his visit with our daughter was...light, but completely not in his nature except when he wants to make headway with me. Looking back i see that he was very indirect, saying repeatedly how much he "cares" for me a lot--sort of back talking and sending two messages at once "we're just friends, think about me, love me, I am not making any offers here". YOu know. Totally talking out of two sides of his mouth (keyboard). After the no bullshit letter he got formal and acted like I was delusional, saying that HE thinks it would be for the bwest that we focus on being just friends like i was asking him to be mine, not like I was saying for him to stop infultrating himself in my mind when I don't want him at all unless he does years of work. Aurgh. It's all about control and mixed signals, writing this out I see more clearly that he is ever so slightly crazy making me, creating a scenario and then when I react using it to make me doubt my understanding of reality.

And he contacted a couple of times after that, but yesterday he's been off. I told him that these circumstances where not cool three days ago.

Help please, that is so interesting...I was tinking jsut last night about it and realized that besides the subtle control thinkg he's doing I had a sudle disapointment of another sort--I think I almost wanted him to want me so I could say "not the way you are, buddy. get some help". NOt a healthy impulse, but I guess I was deep down hoping that there would be a little power or hand in my part of a new relationship with him, where he wanted ME and would give me the feast I deserve ather than scraps. Of course if he where doing it for me, it wouldn't make him any healthier, just a lap dog. Though I have to admit, I would like to see that!!!

Thanks everyone, I'm working today on understanding that he is not well and forgiving myself for caring about him and forgiving his abuse and his manipulations to get into my life. Doing that by focusing on how in my past the stage was set for him to have such power in my adult life to begin with and really ramaining aware of that when I get to feeling this way.
((((((thank you))))))), I made it though lst night, and feel really good about things today.

November 16, 2005
6:26 pm
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ef- first, you rock and good for you. the first night is allways the worst. second- this guy is totally sicko. i mean that in a "i dont want to acuse anyone of anything" way 🙂 but WOW! and isn't that cool how when you type stuff out, you realize so much more than you thought. i know i do that writing and speaking, i actually learn things as they fly out of my mouth. i love that. next- tell me if i'm way off base here, but you said how you wanted him to want you so you could tell him to get lost. i tooooooooooooooootally relate to that. i feel like he treated me so bad and abused me and he won. i always feel like he won and i loose. he doesn't have to suffer and i do. he doesn't have trouble going to sleep at night and i do. he doesnt have to overcome and i do. he won. and i want to win. i want to be the one to make him realize that it wasn't me who was crazy and if i cant do that, i at least want to be there to see the look on his face when it happens.does that make any sence? i think the ticket is remembering why you win. he doesn't controll you anymore, ef, you do that now. even though it doesn't feel like it all the time 🙂 i am glad for your awareness.

November 16, 2005
6:39 pm
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Alive, it makes PERFECT sense, that is all exactly what I want too...but we do cotrol ourselves, even if we can't always sleep well at night for it!!! Thanks for the possitive words and encouragement.

November 16, 2005
7:27 pm
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Hey ef, I'm so glad you feel clearer today. 24 hrs and a little sleep is a miracle cure, ain't it? 🙂

I was drawn to your suspicion of his involvement with other women. Reminds me of the old monster under the bed from childhood. We don't really know what's under there at night. It's too dark to know, but we see the possibility of a monster being under there. (in my nephew's case it was a witch. he was so sure of it, he nearly had US convinced!) Pretty soon the possibility gets us so scared, the monster becomes a reality in our own minds. We have to LEAP into bed to avoid being grabbed, and all of that happens just because we can't see under the bed.

When we let ourselves get distracted by the UNKNOWN, we tend to react against whatever is dreamed up to fill the gaps. This can lead to inappropriate hostility or panic. And if you think about it, this is what bullies (like your ex) do. They put on bravado and punch at the air b/c they're afraid that otherwise their frailty would be exposed. (wasn't there a cartoon once where a hulking, ugly alien was threatening everyone, but in the end they find out it's only a robot operated by a puny little alien inside?)

When you get down to brass tacks, HE isn't the threat. And I wouldn't even say your affection for him nor is your desire for a happy ending. The real threat is any fear you still have over anything.

KC, too. It's so easy to get caught up in how we should or shouldn't feel. How we SHOULD love them because we are loving, loyal people, or how we SHOULDN'T love them b/c they are unappreciative or even abusive to us. Forget all that. Shoulds and shouldn'ts come from a fear of being inappropriate or wrong ... fear that our feelings say something about us that we don't want to be true ... are afraid of being true. That's not to mention the fear of those who hurt us having the power to do it again.

I know I've been afraid of being vulnerable, or of having my vulnerability revealed. But I've been questioning, Is it WRONG to be vulnerable? Do I mistreat another soul by being vulnerable to their choices? Do I need to apologize to anyone, including myself, for any of this? We open ourselves up to others; Is this really something worthy of shame? We do ourselves a real disservice if we can't appreciate the very things we need others to appreciate about us.

November 16, 2005
7:52 pm
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First to bitch and vent...

Had to see my ex tonight to pick up baby and he lost the container I use to send the baby's formula in...it is this great little contraption in which I can measure out the powder for 3 separate bottles...saves sending the big can. Sounds trite, but if you've ever used powdered formula, you would understand! I just LOVE this inanimate little object.

The kicker is that I can't buy them in Canada...a friend of mine got it for me by calling the US manufacturer and having it shipped here! And she was just in the US last weekend and got me another one.

So I have a spare and it's not that big of a deal...but....(you knew this was coming)

...he says to ME..."you didn't send any milk. the baby's probably starving"

grrrrrrrr....first of all...if he thought the baby was starving (which he wasn't...he wasnt' due to eat until he came home with me) and didn't have any milk...then have the COMMON SENSE to call me. I live 2 minutes away. Yes dumbass...I told you I don't want to talk to you on the phone anymore, but if it's a matter of feeding a three month old...I think you could break the rule???

Second of all...I SENT the container dumbass. I filled it and put it in the bag and handed the bag to you and my house is very tidy and it is not here it is with YOU. It probably fell out in his car.

So I said he should check his van and walked away.

And now I want to send him a message and TELL him that I sent the milk and he lost it so please find it and have the sense to call me if something like this happens and he believes the baby is hungry!!!!!!!!!!

But I won't because I'm grouchy and that's breaking "no contact" I'll bitch here instead. And I'll detach and stop thinking about it, and wait until friday and if I still believe it warrants saying something, I'll write a small note.

grrrr......dumbass dumbass jackass dumbass...and I married him. Blahhhhhh But I'm divorcing him...and someday, I won't even care enough to call him a jackass dumbass

That feels MUCH better 🙂

So turnabout...I agree with what you said about the "shoulds and shouldn'ts" when it comes to feelings. That's a big one in my recovery...learning to recognize my feelings, learning to accept them, and understand that they aren't right or wrong, nor do they need to be explained or justified. They just are.

I'm a bad stuffer of feelings. For example, I will say "Why am I feeling so upset that my husband is with another woman. I do not want to be with him. I want a divorce. I am otherwise peaceful with my life. I can't explain why I feel this way so it must be wrong. there must be something wrong with me...to be hurt that he's with anohter woman after the way he treated me....there IS something wrong with me..." and on and on it goes.

When I can just accept my feelings wihtout trying to rationalize them, I have more peace, and they pass faster than when I stuff them and deny them. I'm in a 2 week slump because I won't admit to myself that it hurts like hell that my husband brings the woman he cheated on me with to my house to pick up my kids. I don't want that to bother me...so I deny it to myself, and now I'm in a slump.

At least I know it...that's progress! I wonder if I need to accept that it hurts and trust it won't hurt forever...have a good cry and be done with it!

kc

November 16, 2005
8:16 pm
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exoticflower
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KC, better still, you could have asked HIM to please not CHOOSE to starve his child for a blame game again, if a child is hungry and they have no food you buy them food: NOT leave them to suffer so you can tell someone later that it is their fault. You can be sure that if your child had no food, you would get your child some food--it's about being a parent, not about control.

What a jerk. And once we where beating ourselves up over these guys? It's sounding more and more fun to beat them up!!! At any rate, obviously this man is completely emotionally self centered, there's no point in working yourself up about this any more than being upset at a cat for shedding--it's just his nature while he is so unhealthy, it's out of your hands, thank GOD at least that you have more of a parental ability and a willingness to take responsability for yourself and work to grow. Yippie progress, and thank god for these *#$%s reminding us what truely unhealthy looks like...we're doing pretty damn good I would say!!

"It's so easy to get caught up in how we should or shouldn't feel. How we SHOULD love them because we are loving, loyal people, or how we SHOULDN'T love them b/c they are unappreciative or even abusive to us. Forget all that. Shoulds and shouldn'ts come from a fear of being inappropriate or wrong ... fear that our feelings say something about us that we don't want to be true ... are afraid of being true. That's not to mention the fear of those who hurt us having the power to do it again. "
Turnabout, what a very empowering and true thing: as women we are conditioned to be "good people" to the degree that we are neglecting ourselves, by tollerating abuse, blaming ourselves, taking too much on...etc.

I wonder if that's why you so seldom see men doing no contact? There maybe isn't taht sort of pressure for them?

November 16, 2005
10:39 pm
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Kc: I'm sorry but I had to laugh. ..."you didn't send any milk. the baby's probably starving"

And so "man" thinks - what? Its your fault. "Man" doesn't think "Oh, maybe I should go get some milk. Or maybe I should keep stuff like that around in casr I ever take care of my child again. This is my third child. I should know something about this. I have done this before. I am a father. Fathers know how to do this." No, he thinks only Kc knows how to do this, only Kc provides the milk. Therefore if Kc doesn't do this, the baby will starve.

Go figure. "Man" is highly over rated sometimes.

November 17, 2005
9:43 am
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kc30
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I'll tell you what's really twisted...

Until I posted here last night and got some feedback...I didn't even GET that it was HIS responsibility to get the baby fed if indeed the baby was starving (which of course, he wasn't...he only had him for 2 hours!)

But my first instinct was a desire to DEFEND myself...(I did so send milk!) and PROVE I was right to him (MAKE him go check his van)

I didn't do anything...just vented here (and was totally over it within 2 hours) and did some serious reflection after reading the feedback from ef...and realized HOLY HELL...you're RIGHT!! Even if I forgot to send the milk, it's his responsibility to get the baby fed, by whatever means necessary!! It;s not MY fault if he chose not to do that, and I don't need to defend myself to him, even if I did make a mistake (which I didn't! haha)

So I did some reflecting and was done with it in 2 hours, and resisted the urge to condescend to him and blame him and judge him...I did those things in my head but didn't act.

This morning...he brings back the kids and...guess what's in the bag? yep...he found the formula in his van. There was a little note: I found the milk in the van. My fault...I'm sorry"

Still...funny how quickly I assumed responsibility for his choice not to get milk for the baby, and how lousy, angry and defensive doing that led me to feel. Very, very insightful.

Thanks so much ef and sdesigns. I am feeling stronger as a result of this new perspective 🙂

kc

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