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Hurts_so_bad...worried about you [Ma Strong]
March 18, 2008
11:03 am
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StronginHim77
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Dear HSB:

Without doubt, you are going through hell. Please don't go through it alone. I sure hope you don't feel pressured or "judged" on these threads. Having made MULTIPLE stupid choices (which I have shared on these threads in the past), I know there were times when I found the postings on my threads more DIScouraging than ENcouraging.

Please know that alot of us are genuinely rooting for you and hoping you find some peace and comfort in the midst of this storm which you are facing. When you feel up to it, let us know how you are doing? You are probably still seeing him and that's OK. Heck, I remained with my toxic partner for 16 whole months, before finally crawling away. Then, all I wanted to do was curl up in a ball and die. But it did pass.

We are here for you.

HUGS,

Ma Strong

March 18, 2008
11:22 am
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atalose
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(((HSB)))

Thinking about you and hoping to hear from you.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

March 18, 2008
11:25 am
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((((((HSB))))))

March 18, 2008
3:02 pm
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Celtic1
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((((HSB))))

DITTO

March 19, 2008
9:04 am
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StronginHim77
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((((((((HSB)))))))))

March 19, 2008
3:41 pm
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atalose
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I just don't think HSB is ready for recovery from codependency, yet.

When she is we'll be here to welcome her back.

(((HSB)))

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

March 21, 2008
12:20 am
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marypoppins
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Is he still going to see the OW at the end of the month?

March 21, 2008
10:47 am
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StronginHim77
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Atalose -

I think you are right. I went through a LONG stretch of agony with my toxic ex's, before finding the strength to step back and STAY back. So, I completely understand where HSB is standing. And it's sheer hell.

Yes, we will certainly be here for her, every step of the way.

- Ma

March 21, 2008
11:50 am
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sdesigns
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I didn't see where HSB posted about this recently. Was this a new post or about the guy from a few years ago, or the guy she was seeing that had a gf somewhere else too?

March 21, 2008
11:53 am
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lettingo
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Just because people do not do exactly what many of us have finally done doesn't mean that are not in recovery or trying to recovery. I just know we have to be ready to sometimes make a permanent break but it doesn't mean work is being done to get there. That is how it was me with my ex-husband.

March 21, 2008
2:38 pm
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marypoppins
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come back, please...

Mary

March 21, 2008
4:38 pm
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StronginHim77
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Sdesigns -

HSB's original thread was titled, "How do you deal with a possible breakup from someone whose not abusive, narcissistic, etc.?"

She is in love with a man who is openly seeing another woman, yet wants to keep her "on hold" and available.

- Ma

March 21, 2008
4:58 pm
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taj64
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It is also her third relationship in a row with a man who cannot commit to her. I hope she sees that she does not need the relationship more than she needs herself.

March 21, 2008
10:37 pm
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sdesigns
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OK, thanks Ma. I found it and read it.

I know this is at least twice that she's been in the same scenario with dif men.

We sure are creatures of habit, aren't we?

I know I keep making the same mistakes. Even though I think I'm not, it all seems to end up the same and I have to kick myself.

SD

March 22, 2008
4:47 pm
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taj64
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Check out the thread that was written by HSB back in 05 to get some insight.

Anyone available to give a reality check? ....Hurts_so_bad

I met her after this relationship. there was one after this one that was eerily similar to both of these.

I always think it helps to read what you write from years ago.

I read what I wrote and I ask myself was I that person. I cant believe how desperate and emotionally distraught I was. It helps to remind me of what a mess I was.

But if you keep repeating the same pattern, you will always meet the same type of guy.

I happen to think Hurts is still hanging with the guy and things are good right now.

Reading her original post about this latest guy, I think sadly the relationship keeps on because the sex is good. Sex is so perfect it is hard to leave it.

I hope she knows she can come back whenever and find that most of us are completely understanding of this. You hard fall, it is harder to get back up. But you do, somehow, some way, you can get stronger.

You are better off alone and single than being in a destructive relationship that only hurts yourself. It is the worse kind I think.

Keep trying is what I say, no matter what it take, keep trying to get out of something like this.

March 22, 2008
5:36 pm
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marypoppins
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Taj,

HSB mentioned that the OW wouldn't do "certain things" in bed and found "certain things" unappealing. That's a set up for someone who is relationship addicted with low self esteem to put on a real show in the bedroom. What one may feel like doing or feel comfortable doing is no longer important. You know what I'm saying? Could lead to demeaning behavior that will later be looked at with regret.

My exbf told me his current gf just "doesn't make his dick hard" and that that would never happen with me. For a brief instant, I was flattered. However, my God! His current gf writes in her blog that he's the best boyfriend ever - handsome, intelligent, etc. He's still living with her because he tells me he has no money to move out. Who knows the real truth in all that, and I'm mostly past caring. Anyway, I tell this only to say that I can relate to trying to "win" someone through sex - by doing things that other women won't. Later, it's downright humiliating to acknowledge you "went there".

This guy has both of these women jumping through hoops for him. Well, it takes two, or in this case, three to make it all work.

The more we sink, the harder it is to climb out. Sounds like HSB is very set in her ways regarding her addiction.

No one can make someone want something different. But I know that I'm quite glad that I finally said "no more". My self esteem and integrity are precious to me now.

I hope HSB finally decides she wants to live differently. She may feel good when she's with him, pleased with herself for pleasing him and happy to get her fix, but the reality is that he has a relationship with another woman. Somehow HSB can deny this reality in order to not only continue seeing him, but to say that she loves him even more. She's playing a game with him, at a big cost to her dignity.

But I remember, when I was deep into my own bs, I couldn't see clearly. People shook their head and warned me, but I knew best.

I'll stop rambling now.

Take care.

Mary

March 22, 2008
5:47 pm
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sdesigns
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There's nothing like a challenge to set the gears in motion.

Like a guy that complains that some other woman isn't meeting his needs- the challenge- to meet his needs like never before so that he will pick us over the other woman.

Who knows if what they say is true. But they do know that this is a way for them to get exactly what they want.

March 22, 2008
8:44 pm
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taj64
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It has been years since my ex and I broke up. I look back and I see that sex was a big part of our relationship. Towards the end I learned that he has his wife had sex 4-5 times a night and that was the usual. I was appalled. And disgusted. I also remember when I came very close to him breaking up with her to be with me, and we were talking and figuring things out and he seemed more concerned about the sex part of our relationship, he wanted to be clear that I was going to be able to provide it every night. I remember acting like it was no big deal but now, if this were happenening, I would not be able to do that for him. That is too much sex, and then it just becomes the relationship. Both he and his wife had way too much sexual appetite and basically that is their business now and now I understand why they are so perfect for each other. i went on a counseling session with him. that is the last time we spent any time together. i was in fantasy land definately. When the counselor asked me if I was preprepared to have sex with him at least 4 times a night, I was shocked. I know women who are addicted to men will go to great lengths to have denial and that includes doing things beyond the norm. That include admitting that no other woman could satisfy the guy except themselves. I would have never been able to live up to the standards of his wife. No way, Im too old to be having sex 4 times a night. I could not even do that at my top sexual desire. He explained to me that he just wakes her up in the middle of the night, even when she doesnt want to, she will wake up and roll over and please him and then go back to bed. This was a ritual. After that, I got disgusted and knew that was not for me. I just did not know what to do with the way I felt about him but I knew he was better off with her, because I could not compromise myself that way, not in that fashion. Im glad Im not in that place.

March 22, 2008
9:03 pm
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sdesigns
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I can relate, Taj, but not to that extreme. That is excessive, to be sure. In fact I would say it is abusive, waking her up to please himself as the result would be sleep deprivation.

My ex sex addict bf only wanted it once a night, and it took forever to get an erection. So 4 times a night would have taken all night (LOL). But he did have to have it every night, and sometimes during the day too- but I think we only did it 3x a day max.

When he would tell me about his ex gfs, I didn't get it at first. Saying they would have to spend the night every single night if they wanted to be his gf. He also only liked sleeping in his own bed and didn't like to go to their house.

Oh, the things we learn. I could have never kept up with that life. But he keeps finding women that do.

March 22, 2008
9:17 pm
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taj64
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I cant believe I was that women once upon a time. I compromised myself many times. I was really in love with this guy. He claimed he was with me. but so much for that. He is the one I caught spying on me six months ago, he was driving in my neighborhood. If only she knew, that was the one thing she would be really pissed off about is that he was still out there contacting me. but even with that last contact, I learned to despise him even more. It meant that it still is chasing. It meant that he lies. It meant that is is not trustworthy. He made a promise to her, not to contact me and there he is, still trying to check on me. He wont do it again, that is for sure, but Im sure I wont be the only one he is checking on. Sex addiction never goes away. Not really. It is always there. I dont know if I will ever be able to have a relationship. I have not been in one since him. But Id rather be alone with the rest of my life than compromise the way I did. It is better to feel a bit lonely than to be hung up on some guy who cannot be committed to one woman. I deserved better, I wish I could change it, but I cannot. Im grateful Im not that person. Id rather settle for so-so, than ever been on emotional rollercoaster or ever share a man again.

March 23, 2008
5:52 pm
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marypoppins
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I know this thread was intended for HSB, and I hope that she doesn't feel as if we're in some way talking behind her back, if that makes any sense.

I wanted to add something about the difficulty of letting go as it relates to HSB's experience.

One, I can understand the lure of very satisfying sex. With my exbf, I felt no inhibitions and neither did he. For someone who longs for acceptance, this can be very powerful. My exbf and I would spend hours in bed making love, talking, and laughing. I'd never felt so desired or appreciated before. It was a connection I didn't want to let go of.

I was also thinking about how HSB's bf continues to tell her he loves her and wants to be with her. And how he counsels her about dealing with his trips to see the OW. This, for lack of a better phrase, is such a mind fuck. HE doesn't want to see himself as an asshole. He acts as if he's just this nice guy who has to deal with 2 women in love with him. And he doesn't want to hurt anyone.

My exbf and I began our relationship as friends. I've known him for 17 years. He had a horribly troubled childhood, and he's slowly getting himself together. Eventually, we supported one another in recovery, allowed mistakes, forgave, tried to encourage growth in one another. This is in part, just in part, why I had such a difficult time admitting that he was treating me badly.

He would always tell me that I was mistaken. That he loved me. That he was doing the best he could. That he was not indifferent, not careless with my feelings. I couldn't bring myself to say that his best wasn't good enough. Everyone else saw it and pointed it out to me, but I felt some kind of loyalty towards him.

Finally, I must acknowledge that since I was mainly hanging on out of fear of being alone, I didn't treat him so well either. An addiction is not love.

Okay, that's all. It's not easy to let go, but as I posted on another thread, when I look back at the time I've spent with emotionally and otherwise unavailable men, I see that I passed the years gathering and grabbing for crumbs of affection and attention while filling in the gaps with fantasy and anxiety.

I miss affection and attention, but I don't miss the anxiety. And fantasy is just that, fantasy. Lies we tell ourselves to deny the truth.

For what it's worth...

Mary

March 23, 2008
8:13 pm
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Loralei
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Mary, so many of the things you have written just jump right out and grab me.

"gathering and grabbing for crumbs of affection and attention while filling in the gaps with fantasy and anxiety"

That is such a gem. How we manage to subsist on those crumbs is beyond me. Anyone on the outside looking in would never believe that we would put up with the things we do, all for the love of a man.

"HE doesn't want to see himself as an asshole. He acts as if he's just this nice guy"

That perfectly describes my off again on again and now off again boyfriend. He twists everything around. When he hurts my feelings it's somehow MY fault. He will rationalize any scenario to make it to where he is NEVER at fault for anything he does. He plays the role of victim as he rips my heart out.

I totally understand HSB's situation. I've lived it for 3 years and even though I'm in no contact again, I can't get him out of my mind. I keep trying to figure out why I am so addicted to him. There are many reasons for the attraction, but I think that giving up sex with him is the hardest part. I know I'll never find anyone else who is such a perfect match for me in that department. But "just sex" is not enough for me. Life would be easy if that's all I needed. It seems that I'm only attracted to the emotionally unavailable men. How well I know those, "Lies we tell ourselves to deny the truth."

March 23, 2008
11:27 pm
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marypoppins
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(((Loralei)))

Thank you for your post and good luck to you in maintaining no contact. I know how difficult it is. My fear of being alone and of change kept me addicted for a long time. Hopefully, we'll learn how to be whole and happy on our own, so these emotionally unavailable men won't be the least bit appealing to us.

All the best to you!

Mary

March 24, 2008
8:44 am
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taj64
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I tihnk if HSB comes back which she has not in over a week or so, she will relate to the stories. I dont think she would be upset or feel left out. Many have reached out to her. She is the one to know she can come back. I think the stories people tell of their experience help and not hinder. When i started talk about my ex it was not intended to take it over. If anything she could pick something out of and learn. Perhaps she would understand she is not the only one. There are many of out their that pick these types of men. I think about my ASSHOLE ex all the time. WHen you are in love you dont tihnk they are this much of an asshole. It is only after you out of love do you truly realize just how bad they are for you. It is such a catch 22 because why should you hit rock bottom and mess up your life so badly to realize you need to get out of it? Why do you have to go to emotional turmoil, suffer physically and mentally so much? It is hard to see but like a drug addiction you dont know how bad you are until you have lost yourself. Addictions are hard to break, takes years to get out of. And years to recover. I learned to get out much earlier and see the red flags much earlier and get out as soon as you see it. Dont experience it and test it, just get out. Dont take on too problem of a guy and try to fix them. It does nto work, repeat that it does not work, you cannot fix them, no amount of investing time is going to fix them. Some things are just not fixable. Dont look for potential in a man, if it isnt there then and now then it will never be. And dont feel guilty for leaving if you have to. Guilt is a useless emotion, nothing good comes from guilt. Be respectful and gentle of yourself. Sometimes being alone is just a moment but it passes. Anxiety can stay with you and create havoc and does not go away as long as you keep something around that is bad for you. OK enough of my gibberish. I was on a tangent.

March 24, 2008
2:28 pm
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marypoppins
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(((Taj)))

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