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HOW YOU BECOME PREY TO A CHARMER/ABUSER PERSONALITY?
August 14, 2003
6:30 pm
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Bsmit,

Glad to read you are going to look for professional resources. Very Glad!

Don't go trying to diagnose yourself, my friend. Even a doctor doesn't squeeze his own self, turn his head, and cough. You gotta do this the right way, with a professional. There are lots of free resources out there for you. If you're interested, I'll see what I can find. In the meanwhile, don't go giving yourself anymore exams, 'kay?

Love,

Arwen

August 14, 2003
7:01 pm
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Bismit

My young son struggles with ADHD. His impulsiveness has gotten him into so much trouble that my heart just bleeds for him. He's such a cool, loving guy, but he will enter into a rage almost instantaneously and lash out. And then of course run away crying kuz he knows he boo-boo'ed big time.

We are working on this: at the FIRST feeling of "mad", turn around and FREEZE. Count to ten. Walk ten steps in the directin you are facing. Stop. Think of three things to do and their consequences. Then choose one or think of another.

It's working now more than about half the time. At school, he's got it down. At home it's a little harder kuz his sisters- well, you know the sibling rivalry and teasing thing.

I dunno if this applies to you.

He, too, loves to be the center of attention. When I can't devote to him at the time he wants- I say " I need you to play your gameboy or to read for 20 mins and then I will be with you" and his job is to set the timer and go do that until it goes off.

This prevents the "I gotta have your full attention right this moment" rage. It's working for us. So far. And he's not medicated. knock on wood.

Now my fiance definitely fits that T-shirt saying "People say I'm ADHD but they just don't understand- OH LOOK A CHICKEN!" .The only tough times we have are mornings- I'd swear he's a human puppy. I mean that in a good way. But Jimminy, I've never heard anybody make such a racket making coffee and reading the newspaper- and it's always at the buttcrack of dawn.

How is it that you think you are hurting her Bismit?

Hope this helps.

free

August 15, 2003
11:33 am
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Tracylyn, my love...........you silly, silly woman........haven't we come far enough now that you know how to trust your own radar here??

I don't even know this guy and what you wrote here made my bells go right off. For one.........he misses her? Um.....okay. I dunno, but that sounds really hokey to me. And I think he is really, really playing on your sympathies. From what you've told me about this man........no. 1 - his insensitivity for the way he's treated you on several occassions - does not match up here with him being out of control sad because of the loss of a 7 week old baby.... BUT, knowing that women are very connected to their baby because it is inside them, that's a real easy string to pick up and pull.

I mean he has a right to his sadness here, don't get me wrong and he could have really, really wanted this baby, etc. But this is just a little over the top here and smells strongly of manipulation and playing on your sympathies. I mean why talk about this.........when you should be talking about the problems and owning things that are his responsibility and talking about "that"? Instead he picks up something highly charged with emotion and goes "there"..... Interesing maneuver wouldn't you say?

The other thing here is - it's a complete disregard for your feelings, too because - you are the mother.......you are the one who carried the baby, connected with it the most and lost it........and the last thing he should be doing is making you revisit all that..... It's just not a loving thing to do, especially if you guys have not been together. I could understand it somewhat if you were real, real close and things were good and you talked about this but - his timing really, really sucks and screams of wanting to make everything "about him and for him" here. Just don't like the feel of it, sweetie.

I think you should really, really trust your radar the first time it goes off about things like this. The "I'm a bitch" self talk tape in regards to your reaction just needs to go in the dump. If it takes you coming here and getting validated by me and others, then feel free to do it because - I just feel strongly that you are right on in your perceptions here. You just have to learn to trust it.

August 15, 2003
11:44 am
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bsmit.......I don't know that assigning a label to yourself like ADHD is going to account for the manipulation aspect of what you identified regarding your behavior in your earlier post. I think it's way past that... You may have that going on in your life "also".. That's very possible, but there are more things afoot here than just that. Nonetheless, something to definitely think about, investigate.

As far as culture and what men are taught........I think you've got something there and women teach men all this, too.... Alot of mothers fall into teaching and supporting alot of behavior that isn't in the best interests of women in general.

To break away from the pack here and think for yourself and really, really want to be accountable to yourself for what you alone - do and examine things, wanting truth.......is a hard journey and most people don't go down this path or if they do - they don't stay on it. It's a novelty for awhile and then they bow out.

There's lots of knowledge to be had here and it's application can really hurt when we dare to look in the mirror. But if we can find some genuine love for ourselves in all of this, we can do the work, with alot more gracefulness..... We can do the molding of the clay with understanding and the need to make something pliable, instead of rigid and something that deeply connects with people even though it terrifies us.

Maybe all in all - you're real afraid of true intimacy and not sure if it would totally disable you if you made yourself that vulnerable. Well...one thing for sure.....you can't do that....until you do more self discovery and you after that - you have to erect boundaries that allow you to not just impulsively wander around....but have a more focused, refined search for just the right person, whom you have come to know more about who she would be......because you have spent the time being accountable to yourself, by working on you, making yourself someone you admire and truly respect in order that - you can attract someone of like kind. But the greatest reason of all for doing this kind of journey inside yourself - is really for the journey alone and not to get anything from anyone...

August 15, 2003
11:47 am
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Thanks Ladeska, I think I just needed the validation.

We spoke last night and now I am told that I must be mental if I don't want him, that I need to get help and stop putting it off and that he knows I'll wake up one day I realize what I've lost....blah blah blah.....heard that song and dance with my ex.

He says he doesn't know who I have become and that all I think about is myself. I'm like, yeah I do....and it's about time. I told him he doesn't know who I am because the person I am now isn't the person he tried to shape me into for a couple years. He tries to put this person I am now down. Tells me I've let go of my dreams and my hopes.....I told him those were his dreams and hopes and that mine are all in tact.

Anyway, I could go on and on about the conversation but I think you get the jist......

Thanks for all your help Ladeska.

August 15, 2003
11:56 am
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Tracylyn

That took alot of guts. Is he moving out?

free

August 15, 2003
12:01 pm
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Thanks Free~

He does not live with me, he did for a time but not now. I just need to finally cut all ties instead of rehashing all of this every time we talk.

August 15, 2003
3:58 pm
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Ladeska-
Had a whole message thought out and threw it out. I think I'm better off asking questions at this stage than giving opinions. But it all seems to be related. The behavior seems like it would come from insecurity. The source of the insecurity seems like the first issue to go after. Do you agree?

August 15, 2003
4:39 pm
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Tracy, I think your ex-boyfriend is so far off base that it is obvious that he never really knew you or wanted you to be true to yourself. He is the cold-hearted one pushing all of this on you just to try and get you to get back together with him. I am so very proud of you for not letting him bully or emotionally get to you where you caved into him. I know your heart by how much you have helped me and others on this site and you are a very tender and warm person who is also an excellent mother! Don't ever let someone like this guy make you start to doubt your motives. You ROCK girlfriend and I am glad to be one of your internet friends! 🙂

August 16, 2003
12:53 am
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Yep, Tracylyn, time to stop talking to this wingnut. He's going to put garbage out there for you every time you do talk to him. Just talk to the hand buddy, cause the face ain't listening. What a mainpulator and spoiled little narcissist. Has to have his way or he's going to stab you somehow. Oh what the hell ever!

Good for you though!! Glad you said what you said to him, it's just time for the talking to end though. It's not good for you to go on and on with this. He has no clue and is not going to get one anytime soon, ya know? So glad you are moving ON!!!

August 16, 2003
12:55 am
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bsmit....Yeppers, I agree. You just write and don't be throwing stuff out!! Sometimes the rambling is the best info of all. At least save it to a file somewhere because it will be beneficial for you later to look back on.

August 16, 2003
7:28 am
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Ladesak,

It has been a busy week at work and I haven't had much time to post. I come home so dog-tired that I just seem to fall into bed. I have been reading the threads. It seems that this one and the one on conflict are at the heart of my problems.

I am not going to rehash all of my problems with Elvira here. You know I think she is a classic narcissist and fits well within the description that began this thread.

I do have one observation. You can't beat a narcissist like Elvira at her own game. They are so good at what they do; you can't even really understand their game. That's the point; they don't want you to understand their game. Just when you think you really see what they are doing, they change the rules.

I have been feeling very emotionally detached from Elvira for weeks. When I have acted that way before, it was always colored with my anger. Now, I don't think I feel much anger, just indifference most of the time.

When I began to feel this way, Elvira would begin her old push-pull game. She would question my attitude, become very affectionate and try to pull me back into her web. Now, this week, she seems to have really backed off and does not seem to be showing much affection.

We went all day yesterday without one single I love you. That is the first time that has happened in years. I'm not complaining but it did feel weird and sort of unnatural. I had to take her home last night. I helped her unload the car, and then I just walked past her and left. I thought she might try to call me on my way home but she didn't call. I almost called her but I didn't call because I knew how disappointed I would be with myself if I did.

I know how pointless it would be to try to figure out her actions. I seem to be just as confused about how I feel.

August 16, 2003
3:09 pm
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I think this is all a very natural development though.....it's part of the process of really letting go and I think your observations are correct about her. You just have to, at some point, stop reacting and start taking some initiative to do some good things for yourself, like - get another job!!! So.........how's THAT going?

August 18, 2003
2:43 am
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I came to this site tonight because I needed something... I didn't even know what it was until I read this thread. WOW!! Eye opening for me certainly!!
I think ALL 10 of the outlined signs hit home for me!
This is what I needed!!!!! I needed to know that it's really not just 'me' -- that other's have dealt with the same issues. And while I'm not cured and the hurt isn't completely vanished yet, I feel calm enough to finally go to sleep.
Not feeling shaky or angry anymore. I like that!

August 18, 2003
11:40 am
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Slv.......well I'm certainly glad that this helped you to sleep! (smile) Amazing what affirmation does for you, isn't it? I remember years ago when I thought I was cracking up and the only one who saw or thought certain things. I went to a therapist and she listened while I spilled my guts. Then she sat there and just smiled at me and said.....I'm going to give you this book.."People of the Lie" by Dr. Scott Peck and I want you to read it. Promise me you will read it. I said okaaayyyyy..... Then she said - and I really don't expect to see you back here again. I said whhhyyyyyy? She said because - this book is going to affirm something for you and you need that. You need to know that you're not just whacked here, that what you see on your radar - "is there" and you're assessing it correctly. It's just that you feel all alone in that, like no one else knows or sees and at least by reading this man's book - you'll be able to "sleep at night", knowing....someone else knows and sees also.

She was right. It did help. By no means was everything just perfect and all wrapped after that, but something shifted in me, I re-positioned myself and "that" was extremely important for me to do.

August 18, 2003
12:10 pm
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I really like this one saying today up on the site...

"Real obstacles don't take you in circles. They can be overcome. Invented ones are like a maze." -Barbara Sher

That's very true...food for much thought.

August 18, 2003
4:18 pm
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Ladeska

Remember the friend that I told you about that was doing so good and getting away from the C/A? Well, today is her 40th birthday, and the guy is no dummy. He sent her 40 red roses, how smart is that? I can see her melting right before my eyes! I am so tempted to hand her another copy of what you wrote before, but I have decided that since I have nothing nice to say, I better say nothing. May not be the right thing to do, but I am afraid I will hurt her feelings if I say anything. She will, once again, have to find out what an SOB he is.

August 18, 2003
5:40 pm
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Oh boy Crybaby.......it's hard watching that, isn't it? Some people are just suckers for punishment and there really isn't anything you can do. You've been a really good friend already.

Don't be too disheartened though and I'll tell you why. People have to hit that brick wall a certain amount of times before "they get it". Don't know why that is, it's just that magic moment when everything goes CLICK in the lock and they've had enough. She may be at Hit No. 74 of 122.

It's not that everything you have told her, she didn't hear or take in... I'm sure she took it all in on a mental level and as far as her heart would digest it. And that knowledge will stay there, waiting like a dormant seed until the pain is so great - she finally let's it all sink in to the levels it needs to.

It's pretty hard for you to watch though and I'd just be silent about it unless she really asks you. Who knows what her real motivations are in all this. I've had friends that have turned on me later and gone back to whoever and said - you know.......I think you were just jealous of us!!! LOL! Yea right. But it's their way of making themselves feel better because deep down - they know the real truth.

Then again, sometimes people aren't who you think they are and their character isn't much better than what they are complaining about. In time.......that usually becomes apparent in the wash as well. What we allow - alot of times - we are as well.

I'd just take the position of - I love you, you're my friend and this one thing I won't comment on unless you really, really want to talk to me about it. I respect your choices. That's about all you can really do for her at this point.

August 19, 2003
1:12 pm
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Ladeska

That is basically what I did- I told her whatever she decided to do, I'll be here. It was really hard not to say whenever he goes back to his old tricks, but I resisted. We have been friends for a long time, graduated from high school together, so I would not want to ruin our friendship over such a thing. As you said, she will have to hit that brick wall again before she sees him for what he really is, and then maybe (big maybe) she will be able to let go. Time will tell.

August 19, 2003
2:57 pm
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Ladeska......can you explain to me why I seem to "attract" the C/A man?

I am starting to think I have a scent that attracts these men....hummmm, maybe I should shower. =) Literally, cleanse myself of whatever it is that attracts them.

Just picking your brain again.....I love your brain....or it is your heart?

T

August 19, 2003
3:04 pm
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Dear tracylyn,

A charming person is attractive to anyone. Flattery gets them anywhere. Just look out for the guy/gal who wants very quickly to be your everything, especially someone who is jealous. Set limits. Say "no," just for practice. If they don't respect your "no," run away.

August 19, 2003
3:25 pm
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Tracylyn....I've often thought that people who were abused growing up or just really neglected and have alot of residual pain from that - may attract abusive people to them. And the hurting child in you, especially if things were not good between you and your dad - ends up going for men that were alot like the father figure....in order that they can finally work the puzzle and resolve it somehow because hurt little girls feel like - it's all their fault. So they keep looking for men with certain traits and these certain men literally do smell the blind side in them and see that they are attracted to them as well. You're an easy mark to them. They smell and act like father in some way.

Sometimes that little girl is trying to be what Mommy couldn't be, too - by doing it "better than Mommy" did because if Mom had done it better, maybe Father wouldn't have been so abusive or cheated on her or left her and the kids. That happens as well.

Until alot of healing goes on and you realize many things about your early life and get things positioned as they should be - then the wrong men may come at you still but they also see after a point, as you will, that it's not a match. And then you will probably greatly repel each other. Thus the reason for alot of bad breakups. It just gets too painful.

You can pick my brain anytime. It's a little wierd today, so no telling what will come out of it!

August 19, 2003
4:19 pm
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I'm not too sure I buy that. Not for everyone anyway. Looking into someones past, I bet so many people have some weird parent or sister, spouse, etc.. I know perfectly stable people having the same problems. Including myself. I am not a believer in delving into past for excuses.

I believe that moving forward, and focusing on results instead of blame- is the answer. Thats one thing that keeps me from seeing a shrink. Behavior can be taught, which basically without that effort, history will always repeat itself...... I cringe at people who claim their mothers, sisters, spouses, whatever, caused their problems. Thats bull. If someone uses blame to keep from changing then its just an excuse. Good as it may be, its not the answer to problems. Behavioral changes are the only way out.

August 19, 2003
4:36 pm
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Givetoomuch~

I am all for making changes for the future but I am at a place now where I want to know why I have these patterns.

I am healthy too by the way. I have certain patterns in my life that need changed and it is in my nature to get to the root of the problem rather than just fixing it without knowing the cause.

I have 3 children and believe in learning these things about myself I in turn will be more able to help them grow into healthy adults.

I choose to learn these things about myself just as you choose not to.

This site is not to judge the way we each choose to get help but rather to support each person on their own personal journey.

August 19, 2003
4:38 pm
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Ladeska~

I guess I knew all that just wanted you to clarify it.

I have learned to run away...they just keep chasing!!

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