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How is tc66 feeling?
January 4, 2006
3:43 pm
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turnabout
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TC – look forward to talking to you later. Thanks for the hug… I needed it.

2b – so glad you’re back. Been wondering where you disappeared to!!! Thank you for your beautiful compliments. I get so much out of reading and analyzing others’ situations and reflecting them back on mine, it’s gratifying to know someone is helped from what I put out there, too.

Well, in a nutshell, all these people have let me down in terms of behaving against my expectations, sure (J__ resisting his feelings for me to the point of getting involved w/ someone else, K_ & L_ putting their own social status ahead of our friendship [going to J_’s b’day party b/c, I believe, they feared being outcast b/c of me], and TW & M_ both bailing on dates w/out good reason), but I REALLY feel let down by having my feelings dismissed. I don’t feel as though I can rely on any of them to understand and ACCEPT that I was hurt by their actions. It’s as though they are incapable of understanding that I have feelings that CAN be hurt by their choices.

My triggers today were … well, residual feelings from the story of TW above (he’s a friend I’ve fooled around with as recently as Halloween), … and notice about a favorite band of mine and K_’s coming to town soon. See, in addition to the BIG insensitivity about the b’day party (the real issue was that they tried keeping it a secret from me. I don’t care if they’re friends with him. I’m not jealous that way.), there have been a couple of other little incidents. 1) After several days of leaning on each other through the Katrina blackout, she immediately planned a date the night her power was turned on although I was still w/out. 2) Last time our fave band was in town (local group out of New Orleans), she made it a first date with some guy, which went against our tradition of including each other and then inviting others. (We’d discovered the band together. They were “our” band.) Sounds petty, I guess, but if the table were turned, I would have made my date another night, or told him he could meet me and my friend there.

So, w/ the trigger of the band listing, I realized I had never told K_ that it hurt my feelings for her to do that, but then I questioned whether it would be worth it. B/c of the way I’d gone off on her about her and L_’s duplicity, she got the impression I was jealous of her friendship w/ L_, and she and L_ decided together that I went off about the b’day party b/c I was jealous of K_ hanging out w/ that group of friends who had ostracized me. So, despite my conviction that I need to be more open and honest about how I feel, I wonder if telling her about this won’t make her think it’s just petty jealousy again. And I want to tell TW how badly he hurt my feelings when he stood me up a month or so ago, b/c I don’t think he appreciates that it wasn’t just an inconvenience, but what’s the use? I feel a bit of despair that whatever I do, it’s going to be dismissed.

So, that’s where all this is coming from. I have to get back to work now. I’ll be back on when I get home.

TraCo

January 4, 2006
4:04 pm
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Tra--

In so many ways it just seems you are much more mature than these people. They are in and out on you! Not consistent, and it sounds like they are a bit clique-ish.

I wonder if you just need to say what you want, and be who you are, and not worry too much what these people are thinking. Who cares? Be who you want to be. If they can't handle it, they need to grow up.

I remember about the birthday party. That was just stupid. As I said, a bit immature. You are able to move forward and maintain a relationship with your ex--but it doesn't sound as if others are comfortable with that.

And as far as your ex: It's funny how he is so secretive with his gf about communicating with you. What is there to hide? Is she really insecure? Is he insecure? or both?

January 4, 2006
8:08 pm
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2b -

**"I wonder if you just need to say what you want, and be who you are, and not worry too much what these people are thinking. Who cares? Be who you want to be. If they can't handle it, they need to grow up."**

That is exactly what I need, and I appreciate your understanding. It's actually the attitude I'm trying to adopt. Instead of being so sensitive that I'm "reactive" (i love that word. sounds so ... nuclear.) and instead of stuffing my feelings for fear of the response, I want to be open with a person when they've hurt me, acknowledging my feelings for myself whether they can or not. I'm convinced that most relationship problems can be chalked up to everyone's effort at managing how they appear to others, so I'm trying to give that up.

I had a moment of weakness today, y'know ... where the heart isn't caught up to the head. LOL. Truth is, I know I have pushed and pushed and pushed so hard to make people hear me, that they don't really see the hurt feelings. All they see is someone slinging accusations at them and about them, putting them on the defensive. They are responsible for their own choices, but I know that my efforts haven't communicated. I've been vulnerable, but they haven't seen vulnerability. They've seen indignance, resentment and outrage, all masks hiding the vulnerability underneath.

See, even though I can talk a good "mature" talk to you guys, I haven't acted it. I haven't been mature either.

I appreciate you for NOT telling me to drop them and get other friends. That was the advice I anticipated and knew I couldn't follow. Fact is, they're all just human beings like me, and we're all making mistakes. And no matter where I go, I'm just going to find more human beings making stupid mistakes. I might as well learn all the lessons these people are in my life to teach me as best I can before moving on.

**"And as far as your ex: It's funny how he is so secretive with his gf about communicating with you. What is there to hide? Is she really insecure? Is he insecure? or both?"**

It IS funny. Yes, he's terribly insecure (the worst I think I've ever seen), and it appears to me she is, too. Do you realize how much she had to blind herself in order to stay with him even the first couple of months? I remember he and I avoided talking about it for a while, then 2 mos. down the road, in our first personal conversation about it all, he tells me how my name "comes up a lot" and that it was supposed to be a happy time in his life, but it wasn't; he was miserable. Talk about ignoring the red flags, huh??? And at the time he had nothing to hold against me; I had only stopped speaking to him. I can imagine that my name came up a lot as his "friend", and then suddenly his "friend" wasn't having anything to do with him anymore. Wouldn't that make you curious? But I also remember how I let questions go unasked when I started seeing him b/c I was afraid of the answers, and this girl has a whole lot more.

And she wants to marry him. I'M not even that crazy. She has to be desperate.

But that IS what's so funny... that there's really nothing to hide about e-mailing me. He'd told her (she said) that he'd made it clear to me that we weren't in a romantic relationship, so "officially" there is no cause for her to feel threatened... but she does... b/c he has deep feelings for me that he denies to everyone including himself, and since she doesn't want to face that, she has to dislike me and make me the enemy. So, him e-mailing me is tantamount to consorting with the enemy. There's also no telling how viciously he's talked about me with her when his feelings were hurt, (which probably comforted her doubt and fed her insecure ego) so revealing that we'd been communicating would reveal a contradiction.... like maybe he didn't hate me the way he'd said... and if that isn't quite true, what ELSE might he have said and not really meant, eh???? So, that's the can of worms he's afraid of opening. My theory, anyway.

Well, about your question on why we spend so much time trying to figure these guys out, I've asked that of myself A LOT, but it still doesn't stop me. I think it's b/c we need to know that it really is about us ... that their failing us wasn't due to us. And to that end, it may get monotonous, but I think it's a worthy pursuit.

Now, I'm off to the store for chedder cheese. Don't you hate when you forget that ONE last item needed in a recipe. Arghhh!

-- TraCo

January 4, 2006
8:13 pm
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**b/c we need to know that it really is about us ... **

ISN'T! ISN'T about us!! LOL Good grief.

January 4, 2006
8:22 pm
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Hey, That's my new motto for 2006... "It's all about ME"!!!!!

January 4, 2006
9:04 pm
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I want a motto! Maybe, "Hey, don't rain on my tiara!!"

What???? Too much, ya think? LOL

January 4, 2006
9:25 pm
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OK, Tra... I have a couple of minutes to write. I totally understand how you feel about feeling "expendable"... If you read back on some old threads, I'm sure you can see that I was having very similar feelings about a month ago, although I think that the word I used was "disposable"... Same diff though (Isn't that a cool slang way of saying same difference? I learned it from my 7 year old daughter). She says it with all the attitude of a 13 year old. Picture it... indignant look... one hand on hip and the other hand waving around in a circle... "Duh, Same diff!"... Anyway...

I had some VERY close friends at work. Men that I had long histories with, who I had gone through some of the toughest times of my life with. I had been an open book with them. It was very painful for me to feel like everyone I had ever opened up to, bared (hehehe) my soul, and allowed myself to be vulnerable to basically threw me out onto the curb.

They KNEw how much I needed my job, they KNEW how emotionally fragile I have been over the past year and they KNEW about all of my "abandonment" issues. We had talked AT LENGTH about the many disappointments I had experienced in life and how I felt that I could not trust anyone to be consistent and true in my life.

I told them those things NEVER, EVER in a million years expecting that they would also turn on me and do EXACTLY the same thing to me!!!! After I blew up (vulnerability and fear disguised by indignance and self-righteousness)... then went back in tears with my tail between my legs, they SLAMMED the door in my face. After 18 years... there was no discussion, no compassion... NOTHING. I was met with a cold, icy stare... After I begged for my job back and was told by a robotic figure that was now the shell that once contained the man I considered my friend "Your resignation has been processed and your last day will be December 9th per your request"... Cold, unfeeling, harsh and mean!!! I sat with tears streaming down my face!!!!! His expression did not change!!!

Then my big boss that I reached out to to beg him to step in and stop the madness!!!!! He reported me to Human Resources!!!!! OMG!!!!! This is a man that praised my work abilities on a daily basis. I was his right hand man (girl)....and he had the utmost respect for me, both personally and professionally. He totally turned on me!!!!!

Honestly, I don't have any advice for you Tra. It is very hurtful to feel disposable and expendable!!! It is so painful to open up to people only to have them laugh in your face!!! I feel your pain and honestly, I am still not over it myself.

I've brushed it under the carpet (for now) because I've needed to get on with my life... but when I really sit down and think about it... it is very depressing to me. I still have a big plastic bag full of the contents of my office. You know, the photos that were on my desk, my coffee mug, tea bags, unpopped bags of popcorn, etc... They have sat in the same spot for a month. I cannot bring myself to go into the bag yet. The wound is still too raw for me. I think I need more time....

As far as your friends go... You've been honest with them. You've been the best YOU that you can be! You cannot do better than that!

I think you've done a fabulous job of being open and honest with them. You've shared your feelings and you've admitted your short-comings. You've done exactly what you would hope your friends would do for you!! You've been a great friend... perhaps they will someday follow your lead and learn from you, but if not, you still know that you followed your heart!

That will be very reassuring to know later... maybe not right now, but later!! Both of us someday will be able to look back on this space in time and have no regrets!!!!

I have been hurt, but I wouldn't change a thing!!! How about you?

TC

January 4, 2006
10:39 pm
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Yeah, there are things I would change.

I've admitted my mistakes to myself, but not to them (most of them). I fully intend to do this, but I'm still looking for the right time and way to do it. I'm not going to force it. I know the time will come. I know it b/c I'm not just waiting for it, I'm looking for it.

I have been emotional, volatile, and vulnerable with them. What I have not been is direct, owning my feelings unashamedly while not directing blame for my behavior. I would like to change that.

I have stuffed my feelings when initially hurt (setting myself up for blowups later) b/c I didn't know how to express them or even if I should. I have frequently not given myself permission to feel what I was feeling in the moment. That is something I would like to change.

I have done my best up til now. That is something I cannot/would not change. But I can do better. And I will.

I knew the problems at the old job had to still be bothering you. It was a very RAW time, and it was very recent. I was just waiting until you were comfortable talking about it again. I know that hurt, and it doesn't just go away or resolve itself. They definitely let you down, and those feelings of betrayal are going to sit with you for a while. It's been longer for me since the things I would have termed "betrayals" happened. I no longer feel as though I'm "in" it, thank God, but those betrayals definitely made me feel more sensitive towards all the little letdowns that have happened since. You definitely have every reason to feel betrayed by them. You had every reason to expect them to acknowledge the contribution you had made and hope for their understanding. I'm so sorry they couldn't give it to you. I'm so sorry they let you down.

Funny, isn't it, that you became sick almost immediately after the stress of that job ended. It's like you kept working through that pain so when you stopped, your body finally caught up - like if stopped too, and broke down a little. It's amazing how even our physical health is an expression of our feelings.

You can talk about that stuff anytime you want to. I know you're dealing with a new life and new challenges now, but you don't have to set anything aside here.

TraCo

January 5, 2006
9:19 am
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Thanks for being so kind to me Tra!! Your words actually brought tears to my eyes! It feels soooo good to be so understood and unconditionally supported! I can't even express how much it means to me to know that you have my back (even if it is just my CYBER-back!). It is very comforting to know that I can come here and be met with compassion, understanding and love! Even when I make mistakes... I don't feel stupid admitting to them here!!! It's great that we can actually laugh about our mistakes and move on!!!!

I won't bring up specific examples, but WE KNOW what we've done!!! (Oy!!!)....

I've gotta get ready for work, but I'll chat more later!!

Thanks for starting my day on such a positive note!!

Love ya!!!!

TC

January 5, 2006
10:07 am
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Hello friends...

Feeling terrible this morning. This is the fourth day of no contact for me. I am struggling. I know it isn't worth it to feel this badly, but I don't know how to get past it. I suppose the only way is to go through it.

I really am sick about the idea that he is probably involved with someone else. I will NOT call him for closure. I feel that if I did it would only boost his ego. I don't think it is good for him to know that I have this much emotion invested in our short relationship. It's all my stuff.

I want to stay strong if he contacts me. I think the healthy thing to do would be to not respond. I don't know if I can do that, so most of the time I am thinking/obsessing/worrying about whether or not he will contact me. Does all of this make sense?

I just want to feel better, and put this whole drama in its place, but I can't seem to do it.

January 5, 2006
10:29 am
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Hi 2b!

I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time with NO CONTACT! It can truly be like a slow torture, can't it?? We always assume that they are smiling, laughing and happily moving forward with their lives without us! I don't really think that is always the case. Everyone has their own inner demons that hold them back from doing things they want to do. Your Doc is no different. If he IS dating someone else, what makes you think that she is getting any more than he was willing to give you???

His MO seems to be to get close to someone... get THEM to be emotionally attached to him (Big ego boost)... and then bail out! It seems that whenever you don't give him the "strokes" that he needs, he comes back full steam ahead to reel you back in... and then once he's got you back, he's free to bail out again for a while.

I don't think he has bailed out permenently. I think he is scared and I think he is avoiding his feelings for you (maybe he's a firefighter in addition to being a Doctor and a Pilot???? I'm kidding!). Anyway, Just remember that he does not know that you are struggling this much! For all he knows... you are not contacting HIM either! So, he is picturing YOU happy and content without HIM. Take comfort in that. It is an illusion... but it helps to salvage some of your self-esteem at a time when you feel it dwindling away!!!

Stay strong and keep posting throughout the day. I should be off and on....

I called ex. I left him a voice mail telling him that I wanted to get together to talk. I told him to let me know either way... We'll see... I'll talk more later...

TC

January 5, 2006
10:38 am
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Hi TC--

Thank you for the encouragement. I do like to think that he IS thinking about me. But it has been a MONTH since we've seen each other, with only intemittent phone and e-mail contact. So, I always say, out of sight--out of mind. Your thought does help my self-esteem! I know you have been exactly where I am. This is also the pain of letting go, which is truly miserable. I hate no contact.

So--you called ex and left a voice message? Wow TC! That's huge. I hope he gives you the respect of a return phone call. Please keep us posted.

Turnabout: How are you today? Any new epiphanies?

January 5, 2006
12:19 pm
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I am just processing this:

I am doing no contact as a way to get him to call me. That's my utimate goal. I have to be completely honest and say that is the main reason. I am hoping with time, I will care less--and after a couple of weeks without him contacting me, I'll start to feel better.

But for now, that's my motive. I am so depressed.

January 5, 2006
12:20 pm
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I am just processing this:

I am doing no contact as a way to get him to call me. That's my utimate goal. I have to be completely honest and say that is the main reason. I am hoping with time, I will care less--and after a couple of weeks without him contacting me, I'll start to feel better.

But for now, that's my motive. I am so depressed.

January 5, 2006
2:00 pm
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I can't focus on what I want to answer to who(m?). I hate time limits!!! (lunch break)

TC -- I thought of a little story I want to tell you relating to the experience you had at the old job, but it will have to wait until I have time. You may have to remind me.

Decided to have a talk with the ex, huh? Well, good for you!!! But I'm curious, how many talks does this make? (that's not sarcasm. i really think it could be great and really am curious.) What is it that you think will make it different this time? I'm not understanding what you want to say that hasn't been said already. What do you hope to get out of it?

I read your description of what you hope for over on the "Firemen" thread -- that you want to know how he feels once and for all flashed at me in neon. (oh, yeah, and I'm hearing voices, too. jk) No, really, it caught my attention. I don't blame you for wanting an answer to the relationship riddle. I don't blame you for asking him to resolve it. But, I'm wondering if you're prepared for (what seems to me) the very strong likelihood that he won't give that no matter what you say. I mean, I don't think the guy feels as though he's stringing you along and misleading you b/c he honestly doesn't KNOW how he feels or what he wants. It isn't that he doesn't have the feelings he's expressed, but he isn't AWARE enough of them to give you definite answer. (I'm having a flashback to a conversation w/ J_ where I named the things he did and asked how he could mislead me. With all sincerity he answered, "I DIDN'T mislead you, Tra." Even with the blatant evidence in front of him, he couldn't conceive of it.) I honestly think that if you go in looking for that, you're going to be disappointed again. He doesn't give you concrete answers b/c he has no concrete answers to give.

So, what I want to make sure you've asked yourself is, what is going to be different about this conversation FOR YOU, even if you can't say any magic words that will make him reveal any more than he has already?

Hey, 2b! Heh! Maybe I should start a thread called "Turnabout's Daily Epiphony." I'm full of them. (People say I'm full of something!)

I think it's hardest when you're still counting down no contact in terms of days, instead of weeks and months. Keep that mantra going, "Out of sight does NOT mean out of mind; Out of sight does NOT mean out of mind." That has gotten me through the last several months. TC is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. While you're obsessing about what he's doing, he has NO IDEA what you're doing either, and that's a good thing.

I'll have to share a little later about how I've been taunting J_ lately. Basically, I let enough time pass (i'm talking MONTHS) for him to feel I've moved on and forgotten about him. Then, I make a little appearance somehow, but not the kind that demands a response from him. And, if he responds, I ignore it, letting more time pass until he thinks I've forgotten. The point is, I'm still in his world, so to speak, so that he has to be aware of me, but he has absolutely no idea what I'm thinking. And, since I've spent so much time worrying over being unaware of what he's thinking, it feels as though we're now on an even keel, and that's the way I like it.

Talk to you guys later.

TraCo

January 5, 2006
2:25 pm
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Thanks Tra.

I feel as if I've been visited by angels. I had an awesome conversation with a very wise and understanding friend, and she supported me in my decision to wait to send him an e-mail. Then my sister showed up here at work for a visit, and she too said--wait. I will wait until Monday. I feel as if I've been lifted up off of the floor this afternoon. Thank you so much again for the reminder about me having my own life...and I DO have a life.

Out of sight does NOT mean out of mind!

Look forward to hearing from you later...sounds like you are feeling a bit better today than yesterday. I enjoyed your thoughts about your ex and his gf. Nothing is EVER what it appears to be, and I hope that is your mantra.

TC--wow, I need to get over to the ff thread and catch up.

January 5, 2006
2:49 pm
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Tra,

I'm not sure how many talks this will make... and I forgive the twinge of sarcasm thrown in there!!! I'm sure it's probably getting pretty close to the double digits at this point. What's different this time? Well, I am truly tired of the cat & mouse game. It's no fun!!! Even when I'm "winning", I still wind up sleeping alone (did I mention I haven't been with anyone for 8 months 😉 kidding!)... anyway, I guess a good way to put it would be that even when my little games of manipulation WORK (you know No Contact, Aloof & mysterious and kissing High School boyfriends to make him jealous), they only provide a temporary feeling of accomplishment. It fades pretty quickly and we are still not together! I've won the battle, but lost the war!

I don't want to do it anymore. Truly!!! I want for us to have a clearly defined relationship. Whether it be friends or lovers... I just want it to be clear to both of us. If he chooses the "friend" route, then the sexual innuendo, flirting and crazy jealousy stuff has got to end!!! That is NOT the way "friends" behave!! I want there to be a trust between us. It may mean that we both need to give up on the romantic notions we have about each other and simply be friends. If we value our relationship, we'll need to make that a goal.

If he cannot handle being friends with me, then I plan on telling him that what we are doing now is no longer an option. We are either together or we're NOT. No more limbo! I do mean it. I want him in my life but I can't continue to feel this way. It's not good... I want MORE!

I hope he will be able to be honest with me. I do feel like it might be different this time only because it's been sooo long. We've both had time to think...

Plus, I've given him a "heads up"... he has a couple of days to figure out what he wants to say to me (if he decides to see me at all)... He should be able to formulate some sort of intelligent response! He called this afternoon. I was at work and couldn't talk. I'll call him back later. I'm not sure what to expect, but I am ready for whatever happens.

I gotta run... I'll talk more later...

TC

2b: Out of site definitely does not mean out of mind... Stick this one in your pipe and smoke it... "Absense makes the heart grow fonder"!!! Stay strong!!!

January 5, 2006
5:34 pm
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Please excuse me while I gloat a little bit ….

Had a brief conversation with K_ this afternoon. Found out that the guy she’s been seeing for two months now (and I just met on New Year’s Eve) dumped her Tues.

NO, I’m not happy she was dumped and not happy she had her feelings hurt. I’m not all out MEAN. But I told her there were red flags when she first told me his history. The guy is 42 (she’s 28), has been married twice, and his explanations about why both marriages failed focused totally on what his ex-wives did. That was enough for me. I told her right then that he sounded emotionally unavailable (like J_) and unable to take responsibility for his role in a relationship. Since I hadn’t even met him yet and referred to lessons learned in my own experience w/ J_, I knew she was pretty much dismissing what I had to say. From her demeanor whenever I mention J_, and from implications in L_’s e-mail, I had the feeling she perceived my opinion to come out of bitterness about my own experience that I keep projecting onto everyone else.

Hahahah! I was RIGHT!!! I was RIGHT!!! (Doing a happy dance. La-la-la-la-la)

Of course, I was a good friend and very supportive and understanding. I snuck in only one “I told you so” (and worded it differently so maybe it didn’t bite so bad?). Teehee.

Oh, it’s so good to be proven right after feeling so minimized!

January 6, 2006
12:50 am
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Nothing is EVER what it appears to be. I like that, 2b. So true. Yes, I'm better now. Like I said, just had a couple of triggers. You sound better, too. So glad. "Doc" needs to be wondering why you aren't chasing after him. It's good to wait on the e-mail as loooong as possible. Only you know how long that is.

TC- no sarcasm, .... truly. Except the neon lights comment. Okay, that had sarcasm.

Now that I know your motives, I think this could be very positive. Go in with the awareness that he will probably do everything he can to avoid defining the relationship (what a friend calls the "DTR" talk. "You need to have a DTR," she'll say.) That mean it will be up to you to define it. Be prepared to say exactly what you want in light of his indecisiveness. Like you said, you don't need to cut off all contact, you just need boundaries. If he won't set them, you'll have to. Make sure they're restrictions that you'll find managable even without his cooperation, b/c, no matter what he says (to keep you around), there's no guarantee he'll keep them. If he can't be direct about what he wants and needs (and I'm skeptical about that), then nothing he says can be relied upon. It may be absolutely true, but it can't be relied upon. And, in that case, you'll have to rely on you. You're all you have to rely on!

I'll have to come back later for my storytelling. I'm too pooped.

January 6, 2006
9:25 am
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Well friends, I made it through another day of no contact. I kept Rhonda Findling's book "Don't Call That Man!" by my side all night. Read the whole thing again. I actually had dialed his number at one point, but talked myself out of it. I am so glad that I did.

I kept thinking about all of the people who have told me not to contact him in any way, shape, or form. Out of 11 people who know the story pretty well, only two have said to get in touch with him, and that was mostly because they can't stand to see me suffering. Two of those people were my counselor's, and my counselor Carole told me (and these are her exact words): "Run far, run fast."

So, I felt at peace last night. It's not about game playing for me--it's about self-respect. Do I still want him to call me? Yes. But, I feel better about it today. I am still torn between what is acceptable for closure and communication. I was pretty intimate with Doc, so there are a lot of emotions involved. BUT--again, my self-respect says: "You want me, you know where I am. You call ME."

Also, I kept thinking of kathygy, and something she posted to me about a month ago. I have to go find it, but it was about self-respect.

How are you guys doing today?

January 6, 2006
9:32 am
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2bstrong
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Here's kathy's comment. I'm posting this cuz I print these threads sometimes for support over the weekend.

**You are being way too giving and making huge excuses for him and his behavior. He is throwing crumbs your way and you get all excited and thank him for the crumbs.

He is not offering you anything. You don't owe him anything. You didn't owe him an apology for anything. Why on earth would you want him to call you? and telling him you would be happy if he calls is only telling him you don't think very highly of yourself. Why be happy about crumbs?!

You won't get anything more from this man. You need to build your self-esteem and self-respect. In order to do that you need to let this one go and realize what a jerk he is. You deserve a full relationaship with a man that can love you and committ to you in a stable relationship. This man can not do that.

The next time he calls or emails I strongly urge you not to see him if you have any love for yourself.**--Kathygy

January 6, 2006
3:54 pm
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Hey 2b! How is your day going???? I'm glad you made it through the night without calling him. Sounds like it was pretty tough!! I'll bet you woke up feeling pretty proud of yourself today though, huh!? One day at a time! I just hope that you don't get to the point that you are over him... only to have him call THEN!! That would certainly test your strength!!!

Tra, I'm glad you had a good day yesterday... I love being able to say "I told ya so!"... Even if I don't say it out loud, I SCREAM it to myself and it feels GOOD!! Especially when people give you the "You don't know WHAT you're talking about look" when you are trying to tell them something. I hate that look!

Well... I'm not sure if I am going to meet ex after all. I can't go into too much detail right now because i only have a second to write because the kids' will be coming off the bus in a minute... but I'll just say that I am having second thoughts based on his inability to set up a day/time for us to meet. He was very vague and casual about it... It really bugged me and when I asked him about why he couldn't set a time, he got defensive and we ended up arguing. You know? He's got so much anger bottled up inside of him that I don't know if he'll ever let go (or "surrender" as Shaney said)... I told him that I wasn't sure if I even wanted to get together with him anymore... I used the cow/horse/milk analogy. You know... I want a cow and he is a horse and I keep squeezing things trying to get some milk, but nothing is coming out, so I keep squeezing and squeezing harder, still, no milk!! Why??? Because he's a HORSE, dammit!! He doesn't have the milk to give!!!

Well, needless to say... he thinks I'm insane now!!! 🙂

I'll talk more later... Moooooo!!!!

TC

January 6, 2006
4:36 pm
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Hey tc--

What happened?! Why would you change your mind now? If he says he's going to be out and about, isn't that cool? Can't you just meet him somewhere? I think that's going half-way at least. Who cares about his anger. You made a request of him and he agreed to it. HIs anger and frustration has no bearing on your request.

Maybe you are expecting too much of him, tc? So you know he's a horse--why do you keep squeezing? Oh, tc--please don't think I am trying to be mean or tell you what to do.

Alls quiet on the front hear. Still trying to let go--move on. It's very, very difficult.--2b

January 6, 2006
8:09 pm
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turnabout
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I totally empathize with your frustration, TC. You feel as though you are asking for the absolute LEAST amount of consideration, but the ability to handle even this little 'nothing' seems to elude him. I felt that repeatedly w/ J_ until I finally realized I absolutely couldn't set my sights any lower. I had gone several levels below reasonable and hit rock bottom. In that last conversation with him, he told me that he didn't know if he could give me the effort I wanted. I answered, "I don't know what kind of effort you think I want, b/c what I asked for was practically nil." He named off a series of things I had said, but taken out of context and blown out of proportion, of course. My saying that I had asked for practically nothing threw him for loop. That's when I realized that I was speaking in English, but he was interpreting it in Swahili. And if he's determined to hear me in Swahili, what can I do? Is it any wonder I was frustrated? However my English sounds in Swahili, it was just making matters worse, creating a bunch of nonsense. The best option for me was to just quit talking, and I did.

I disagree, 2b, that saying he'll be out & about is meeting her halfway. It's equivalent to saying, "Sure, I'll talk with you if you hunt me down and make me." She wants an appointment with him, and she deserves that much consideration. If he said he would be somewhere at a specific time, giving her the option of meeting him, that would be meeting her halfway. Then again, maybe you or I, or both of us, are misinterpreting the context of what was said. It could go either way.

What I don't understand, TC, is why you're waiting for him to tell you when and where. If you think this talk is important and you initiated the idea, why are you leaving it's arrangement so open-ended? YOU'RE the one with the investment in having this talk, and you knew that when you decided on it. If this were a different situation... let's say you needed to talk to a girlfriend about a concern w/ your daughter (no, not her daughter, b/c these are YOUR feelings at stake here, not his) ... would you expect her to make the arrangements? Or if the situation were reversed, would you be making the arrangements, or let her approach you about a time that would feel comfortable to her (since it IS her concern you'll be discussing)?

He should at least tell you when he's available, I'll give you that, instead of leaving it in limbo. But if it's important to you, then it's up to you, you'll have to set the time and tell him to be there. Of course, be prepared for a last minute bail out. It's amazing the lengths to which these guys will go to avoid confronting their own feelings.

The old milking a horse analogy! I know it totally lost him, didn't it? LOL Another thing in my history w/ J_ - I had a specific dream about our relationship that was very easy to interpret. It was trying to tell me that I would NEVER get J_ to understand how important our situation was, no matter how hard I tried to express myself clearly. I told J_ about the dream and it's apparent meaning, and all he had to say was, "Well, I guess it shows how you see me, anyway." He totally missed the point, ironically PROVING the veracity of the dream. LOL

I think I already told you that story. LOL... oh well. Sorry. I doing reruns now!

January 6, 2006
9:13 pm
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Shaney
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Ah yes... the old cow/horse/milk analogy... also known as squeezing blood from a turnip. It can't be done.

I tend to agree with TA - this is your deal. You initiated the talk, and you should set the time - he gave you a two day window so I'd take advantage of it if you are still interested in slapping him off the pad and making him sink or swim. I wouldn't expect him to go so far as setting up a specific time... (he's a non-commital ff :o)). Maybe, by him not attempting to set a specific time, you felt that his interest wasn't there or that he didn't really care, and that's what made you upset. Again, this is your talk... and believe me, he may care about you and want to see you, but TALKING and SHARING HIS FEELINGS is the last thing that he is looking forward to doing. And in actuality, he may have just been giving you that window to allow you to pick a time. Anyway... you get what I mean. Whether the talk is in the next two days, or a month from now, I think that you'll know when the right time is, and you'll just do it. The fact, is that he knows how you feel but feels more comfortable playing that damn cat and mouse game that confronting things. Of course, you're arguing now... you attempting to get him to make a decision and he knows it. His anger is just another diversion to prolong this game with you. He's still hanging on and so are you, but something has got to give at some point.

Give it a couple of days and see what happens - you'll figure this out eventually.

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