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How empty of me to be so full of you
May 30, 2007
9:58 am
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obsessia
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Why am I wasting my time checking up on her. She cheated 9 months ago. We're each seeing a counselor individually and in couples. I still don't trust. She slipped up 2 months after being back together by sending the woman a card and scrapbook. I believe it's over for her now. But then she lost her job after being accused of sexual harrassment. She says it was all a lie. Now she has a new job. Am I supposed to obsess about everyone she works with? I focus on me about 30% of the time. What I am learning is that I am a good person and a person who is loyal and trustworth. I don't deserve this disrespect. But instead of really believing that and living that, I secretly check up on her all the time.

May 30, 2007
10:06 am
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loverbee
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If you are in a position that you are checking up on her all the time, my guess is that you still don't trust her. You have to look deep inside to figure out if that is true because for the most part, if you did get back together, there is probably a part of you that doesn't want to look at the fact that you don't trust her because you want to think that you can work things out. But if you still don't trust her, chances are you never will. Trust is the foundation for any relationship so I think that you need to consider whether this relationship is really going to work.

May 30, 2007
11:19 am
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atalose
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Trust is so very hard to gain back after it's been broken.

Is she giving you any reason at all for you to be checking up on her. Does she seem to be hiding anything or acting odd or avoiding your questions? Or are your suspections based in the past?

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

May 30, 2007
11:34 am
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obsessia
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Thank you atalose and loverbee. Right now she is not giving me any reason for mistrust. We got back together in September after a horrendous separation in which I threw her out because she was becoming entangled with another woman who was a work colleague. She then stayed with this woman, began drinking again after a period of 4 yrs. sobriety. She decided to stop drinking again, and we got back together. During that time she kept emailing the woman job opportunities and then promised no contact. She then made the woman a scrapbook in November from the part that she had for her right before we got back together. She gave this woman a party because the woman was leaving her job and, of course, she was infatuated with her so why not. She held the party at the place where we had our commitment ceremony to add insult to injury. So in Nov. she felt it her duty to make the woman a scrapbook. She dropped it off at a neutral location. I found out by seeing this in her work email. Yes in all honesty I have become quite the detective and snoop. So I called the office where the scrapbook was and it suddenly was gone. I told my partner to get it back. I never saw it. She also sent me a Blue Mountain card during this time and I thought, hmmm I wonder if she sent her one too and upon snooping sure enough she had. So I called her and said we're done. She apologized, said she never should have done it, sent me flowers, etc. I gave her another chance.
In March she got suspended from her job due to allegations of sexual harrassment by a client. She subsequently got fired. She claims there is nothing to it. That the woman was crazy. I could not find out the whole truth to the matter. I certainly cannot call the woman. I emailed my partner's bosses and they would not divulge any information. So now she has a new job. Am I doomed? Am I a fool?
She caused so much damage during the 5 weeks we were separated. But she and I have done a lot of work on ourselves and together to hold this relationship together. But I still have so many questions/doubts.

May 30, 2007
12:09 pm
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AQueen
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When are you going to get off the rollercoaster? You didn't cause her problems, you cannot control her and you cannot cure her so LET GO. Let go. It's out of your hands, it really is. Time to bring the focus back on you, you are the only person that you can control. You can only change yourself. Are you being honest with the counselor, telling the counselor how you are compelled to check up on her all the time and how you cannot stop obsessing? What does your counselor say? Counseling is where we get honest or else we are wasting our time and the counselors time. Have you tried a support group? I've found that I feel best when I attend both. You cannot continue to focus on her, it's pointless and a unhealthy. Focus on yourself and your recovery from codependency.
AQueen

May 30, 2007
12:18 pm
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gracenotes
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obsessia,

The title of your thread: How Empty of Me to Be So Full of You really caught my attention. If that doesn't describe the essence of love addiction, I don't know what does.

From the little I have read, this sounds like love addiction to me. Your counselor either is or is not rooted in some 12-step ideas and either does or does not claim this as a valid approach. Many don't and they don't get how absolutely life wrecking this obsessive stuff is.

My suggestion is to go get Pia Mellody's book Facing Love Addiction. Its readily available in more book stores or at Amazon. That investment of $12-15 will proabably be your greatest investment. One cannot even begin to tackle the problems with codependency until one heals the love addiction stuff anyway. This stuff is like another layer over the codependency.

Its not hopeless. I, more or less, healed the major stuff in less than a year. Still need work, but I am out of this obsession and I have my self back. My focus is on me, not on him/her. My life is just wonderful right now.

May 30, 2007
12:31 pm
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fantas
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Obsesia, I'd say read Codependent No More, and it will all become clear...

May 30, 2007
1:47 pm
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obsessia
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Thank you all. I have Codependent no More. Started reading it but it's painful to read so of course, I stopped.
AQueen, easy for you to say get off the rollercoaster. I am in couneling and in a 12 step program.
If it were easy it wouldn't be a problem, but thank you for the input. Gracenotes, I will pick up the book you suggested.
Perhaps it's time to finish CoDependent No More.

May 30, 2007
9:56 pm
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Honolulugal
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I'd just like to say, I think your title here is amazingly well thought out. How I can relate!

H-gal

May 30, 2007
10:00 pm
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AQueen
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It isn't easy, never said it was. I said it takes A LOT of hard work. When you break away from the relationship there will be some pain and you will grieve, that's normal. It takes a willingness to live in the solution instead of living in the problem. Jumping on me isn't the answer, obviously I said something that made you feel uncomfortable. It isn't easy but it can be done, people do it daily with lots of help and support. If the counselor isn't working out we reevaluate the situation and get a new one that specializes in love addiction and codependency issues. It takes a willingness to proactive. This is a good place for some support, welcome.
AQueen

May 30, 2007
10:21 pm
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gracenotes
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obsessia,

Yes, I recommend Facing Love Addiction first. There was no way I could begin to handle the painful, at first, codependency issues until I dealt with a lot of the love addiction issues. This is something also that Pia Mellody highly recommends as far as what issue to deal with first.

May 30, 2007
11:45 pm
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obsessia,

Sorry to say, I don't have any great pearls of wisdom- but that thread title is so poetic and conscise... it says so much. You have more insight than you know.

We all should wonder that, what do I think my life is lacking when I let another person become more important than my needs or happiness?

-ella

May 31, 2007
8:41 am
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obsessia
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You are all such nice people. Thank you. AQueen was not really jumping on you, that is not the answer. It is obvious you are in a 12 step program. I am as well. I find support there so that I do not pick up, but this codependence I have needs to be dealt with. I love my counselor. I have been seeing her since last July/August. She knows me. I will see her Saturday and be truly honest and tell her how unmanageable my life is at times. I also have a wonderful sponsor who helps me stay on track. I just wonder is it worth hanging in there for this relationship. I have done work on myself to change, but I know I still have a long way to go. My sponsor asks me why I think so little of myself.

May 31, 2007
9:14 am
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foolfoolfool
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How empty of me to be so full of you...

It cuts like glass yet it soothes the soul... An answer. Clarity. A step in the direction of knowing ones self... There IS no-where to go from here but to empty ones self of "you" to make room for "me".

THANK YOU

May 31, 2007
9:17 am
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MissNhimnotWantN2
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May 31, 2007
9:19 am
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MissNhimnotWantN2
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I just wanted to say that I have also read Facing Love Addiction. It was painful to read, but at the same time it was reassuring, that there actually were others who experience the same feelings. It made me feel not so alone in this. And that there is actually help out there. Codependant No More is a great read as well. I have been recovering from my Love addiction...and from my codependancy. I am doing much better.....

May 31, 2007
10:26 am
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gracenotes
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Yes, it was tough reading Facing Love Addiction, but it so put the pieces together to help me understand what was going on with the other person. It was like wow, yes, ah ha, yes, this is amazing, this is the pattern, I never understood this before, and now I do.

I seem to attract Love Avoidants. It helped me to understand that Love Avoidants are initally very appealing, that false charisma that draws one in, seem to have a kind of woundedness inside that appeals to codependents or at least appealed to me, that they really fear relationships because they confuse healthy relating with enmeshment and assume enmeshment, have other addictions going on too, often the work addiction, they have to have that other thing going on, whatever it is, and give the impression of being emotionally available but really are not. It helped me to understand that I was trying to heal some childhood wound through these relationships and, ironically, I chose the least possible type of person who would be capable to make this possible. Love Addict + Love Avoidant = a relationship that has no long-term potential.

May 31, 2007
2:36 pm
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obsessia
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Gracenotes:
Thank you. That sounds "right on" for me. I was initially drawn in by her charisma and her woundfulness. She wears her sexual abuse issues like a banner. Come on, she's in her 40's get over it already. How does one go away to a recovery center to deal with this and say, i've forgiven and then today (by today I mean over the past 6 months) start seeing a counselor who has dragged this out into the light again and she returns to be the victim. I love her parents and they are 70 yrs. young but it would kill them if she cut them out of her life again. My parents are both deceased and I wish I had them in my life. I don't understand sexual abuse, that is true, but playing the victim is unhealthy. I hate feeling victimized in this relationship.

May 31, 2007
6:13 pm
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gracenotes
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obsessia,

The woundedness is a hook, right? It always seemed to me that when I wanted to get serious about No Contact, I would think of this poor wounded person who also talked about an abuse history. Poor wounded person who also practiced emotional abuse on me. This is such a big hook. Its just their game.

The best answer is No Contact. You deserve better than this. Ive been in total no contact over a year. So much has changed. Its tough getting started, but we are all hear to support you in withdrawal.

No Contact will give you your dignity back and you will feel like you are in control of your life again.

I still sometimes think of ex-n, No Contact person, with sadness at all the woundedness they experienced as a child and in a former marriage relationship, and how it made them the way they are. But, I know better than to give these thoughts a whole lot of attention and they go away. Everyone has the opportunity to make healing their priority and stop driving other people crazy and manipoulating others. I cannot go around feeling sorry for someone who did not make the choice to heal and continues to be abusive towards others. Harsh, but reality.

May 31, 2007
6:19 pm
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gracenotes
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Sorry, No Contact since December, not a year, but going on six months anyway.

June 1, 2007
9:15 am
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obsessia
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Gracenotes: I have discovered some interesting insights yesterday. Someone on this site recommended going to the website recovery-men.com

There I read signs of being in an abusive relationship. But guess what, I'm the one who has done 6 out of the list of 11 or 12. Nothing physical or violent, but the first 6 I have done. I question if this is my make up or did her actions (cheating last Aug.) cause me to become more obseesive??

June 1, 2007
11:24 am
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gracenotes
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obsessia,

I look back on some of my actions with past ex-n and I can honestly say that I was in violation of my own integrity. Not horrible stuff, but I was totally disrespectful of others' boundaries and it came out in too much unwanted communication sent in various ways. Not nasty communication, but too much communication. I didn't get that even pleasant communication is unwanted communication if it is not wanted by the other party. Period. But, I do now.

But, no, my actions are not my make up. I was under some kind of spell of obsession, my thinking was not totally rational, I had this obsessive thing going on, I knew it was kind of crazy anyway, but I still did stupid things. But, once I did a lot of recovery work, through working with Pia Mellody's books and a few sessions with a therapit, this obsessive stuff went away, I felt like I was myself again, integrity, and I am embarassed about my behavior now(and I did apologize to ex-n, even though it was not accepted as far as I know) and even though I thought ex-n's behavior was rather abusive.

One thing about codependency -- it really has a lot to do with how one is inappropriate with their boundaries of others, and we can learn appropriate boundaries. And, appropriate boundaries feel better anyway.

Did her actions make you more obsessive? Probably, because you got sucked into her game, under her spell, manipulated, so to speak, but there's no point dwelling on that piece of it. Its more important to focus on your recovery and get control of your situation. Being in this obsessive is really like being an addict. Its not easy to go into No Contact, but after awhile, it is the most liberating thing.

June 1, 2007
6:10 pm
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bonni
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"how empty of me to be so full of you"

this really hits home. i obsess on people. i think sometimes i do it just so i can avoid dealing with my own loneliness.

bonni

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