Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_TopicIcon
How Do I Get Someone to Social Services?
April 7, 2000
1:55 am
Avatar
vositor
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Maybe someone has a suggestion?

I have a relative who (in my opinion) needs a medical evaluation and perhaps some psychiatric help. She has no job and no health insurance. She absolutely goes ballistic at the suggestion she should apply for social services so she can get straightened out and start living the life she wants to live.

She's been moving in on people and being a horrendous disruption in their households until they finally ask her to leave. It's been going on for ten years, and she's about to become homeless. It breaks my heart that I can't give her a place to stay and pay her bills; but I can't afford the bills and I can't impose the irrational behavior on the rest of my household unless she agrees to get help. It's a vicious circle.

I simply don't know what to do.

April 7, 2000
7:45 am
Avatar
hazza
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi there,
unfortunately, unless she sees that she needs some help, there is little you can do for her that you have not already done.
It sounds very harsh, but all the time people are looking after her, she has no need to realise that she must look after herself. This is why she acts so badly towards the people that take her in and care for her.
have you contacted social services yourself and asked them what they could offer her, so that you could tell her exactly how they could help? she may accept help for her practical problems like housing, but it is unlikely she will be able to accept help over her mental health unless she requests it.
The best you can do is to be honest with her and explain that you cannot house her due to her behaviour, but tell her the ways you can help, such as helping her with social services etc.
Often people only ever see that they need help when they are at rock bottom, you may actually be doing her a favour by being firm about this.
peace
Hazza

April 7, 2000
7:47 am
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It is heartbreaking...but Hazza is right. There isn't a thing you can do. To do for her is codependent . Keep telling her she needs to go to Social Services. It is her only hope.

Good Luck

May 2, 2000
12:44 am
Avatar
vositor
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thank you, both Janes and Hazza.

I've been waiting to report back, hoping for something positive to say.

She realized I meant what I said, that her behavior is too much for us to handle and we'll work with her to get her WHATEVER professional help she needs from Social Services. I didn't name the help I think she needs because I'm not qualified to make that kind of judgment. I was very careful.

I've heard from her once in the past four weeks. I don't know what living arrangement she finally made, and didn't ask. I have controlled every urge to start polling her acquaintances to find her because I have nothing else to offer.

We've been through battles of will before, but I've always backed down because I couldn't stand to have her face her own consequences. It hasn't done her any good, obviously.

Half the problem is me. I have a burning need to find her and tell her my mind isn't changing, so she should stop waiting for that to happen and get going on straightening herself out.

I need a productive tactic if anyone has one. It was never my intention to just abandon her, but that's how it feels.

Thank you very much.

May 2, 2000
1:23 am
Avatar
heartfelt
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Although all the particulars of your relatives problems are in your knowledge and others close to you vositor, I'll share an experience that may or may not be helpful. In the state where I live there is a law called the Meyers Act which allows a relative to force someone to seek treatment for problems if they are a threat to themselves or others. All it takes is filing a petition with a social agency. My experience.......my father lost his wife, my stepmother, to alcoholism a number of years ago. After her death my father lost all hope in life. He himself had a drinking problem. He continued to be self destructive through his drinking despite efforts to reach him through dialog for months....watching someone die slowly by self infliction is quite a helpless feeling. I was at odds with myself as to ,"did I have the right to intervene,", others saying "are you playing God?".......then the answer came.someone said to me " ask yourself how much you love him". That's all I needed, nothing else mattered so I had him court ordered into detox and then inyo a rehab program lasting 6 mos.....He was very angry with me needless to say...threats,"what gives you the right", etc.......After he came home he stayed sober, went to AA daily and remained on his positive journey for the next three years until he passed on to rejoin all he loved........sometimes taking a stand for the right reasons with tough love reaps all anyone can hope for.

May 3, 2000
8:41 pm
Avatar
vositor
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Heartfelt, thank you for this. It didn't occur to me to ask anyone if there were a solution that didn't include cooperation from the person who needs the help. It makes so much sense that there would be - I've been so scared of just that - getting her angrier with me than usual - that I guess I wasn't thinking.

Your message has been on my screen since yesterday noon. I've been rereading to get my courage up.

Thank you.

May 4, 2000
6:09 am
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

STOP!!!

I think Hzza idea is great...but you have been taking the right steps too. Half the problem IS yours and you have been doing great battling YOUR codependent behavior. If relative hasn't been around much in the past month and you haavn't sought her out wait until she comes back around again to use Hazzas idea. First check it out where you are too. The Meyers Act may have a different name where you are or may not exist.

A positive step for you is to research this idea for your area and then talk to other family members.

But you have done well for yourself keeping hands off. And that is important!! Codependent behavior is trying to SAVE people from thier problems... Hazza relative was an immeidiaate family member. If this relative is not in your immediate family you still may not be able to do anything.

Keep working on you though. It is hard to watch others we care about go through hard times but sometimes they have to in order to "see the light" or for others in the community to "see their need".

Good Luck.

May 4, 2000
8:36 am
Avatar
hazza
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Janes,
that post about the Meyers act was from Heartfelt not me.

I do not think that forcing someone to receive help would be the best thing in this case at all.

I am sure that this is something someone would only do if they saw someone close who was close to harming themselves or others.

This should only be done if there is no other alternative as an emergency last resort. Not for antisocial behaviour alone.

There is far to much danger of trying to cure someone else and making them your project, rather than BEING AVAILABLE SHOULD THEY REQUEST YOUR HELP. You have to ruthlessly honest about your own motives. The whole idea of forcing someone into therapy seems to me very bizarre, how could it work if the person themselves will not recognise the problem? it would surley only fuel their anger and feelings of alienation?

Vositor, what does this person do that makes you feel they are in danger? can you give us any examples of the type of behaviour you are talking about?
That would be very relevent in your decision whether to intervene or not.
Peace
Hazza

May 4, 2000
9:29 am
Avatar
Cici
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My mom is a geriatric nurse practitioner and she's actually had to committ a handful of patients. In my state, it's called the Baker Act, where when it is determined by social services if the person is a danger to himself or others, they need to be forced to seek psychiatric help. Janes and Hazza are correct IF the person in question is able to care for herself and is not a threat to others. The thing is, with certain psychiatric disorders, the person will never seek treatment independently because they are not in tough with reality.

It is a case-by-case action. You call the agency responsible for Baker Acting (or whatever it's called in your state...it's different in each one) and they send out a representative who does an evaluation of the person under question. If it's determined that they are in urgent need of intervention, social services will take over and probably committ them to a state psychiatric ward in a public hospital.

Here's the thing, ethically, if you determine that this person is a danger to you or others, you are obligated to call a state agency if the person does not seek help independently. This is the case with suicidal schizophrenics or other schizophreniform disorders where the individual is unaware of reality. If this person is under the influence of drugs like methamphetamines, crack, or heroin, this could also be cause for baker Acting. Antisocial Personality Disorder, Suicidal Clinical depression, paranoid dillusional problems should also be considered. if this person is on the verge of becoming homeless, the state can intervene.

May 4, 2000
11:48 am
Avatar
heartfelt
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Without clear cut information, it's true the difficulty in offering suggestions. I must say that if one truly wants to help, they take upon themselves the responsibility of being vulnerable, taking a risk, being judged, resented, misunderstood, alienated,rejected, hurt feelings. Don't expect anything in return other than your knowing you've stuck your neck out for the right reasons....love. We're fooling ourselves if we believe WE can cure anyone, not even ourselves...we grow, stay stagnet, or go deeper and take on more junk and baggage..without information on particulars, assumptions are just that.assumptions.....perceptions are perceptions and so on. Planting seeds of growth, insight hope offer the beginnings of healthy lives. I can see there is a great deal of recovery on this site.....openmindedness....talking, walking and being emotionally healthy IS the journey of the heart and those who know the path have an obligation to plant the seeds...and I'm looking in the mirror as I say this..continue to look, unfold, grow and pass it on.no matter what. If I worry about a popularity contest, nothing is moving forward but if I gather all the facts, and information avalible maybe those seeds will be caught by another as they blow with the wind.

May 4, 2000
5:44 pm
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hzza...sorry for the slip.

May 5, 2000
1:43 am
Avatar
vositor
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm looking in the mirror, too, when I read every word every one of you has said. What gave me encouragement was that heartfelt used the law to stop someone who was drinking himself to death. My problem is somebody who's alienating everyone whose path she crosses, and who is destitute because of it. Those aren't violent destructive behaviors, they're just destructive.

My motives are guilt and love. She's my child, the only one. I screwed up and she's suffering.

I'm Catholic. I know about atoning for sin. I've been perfectly willing for nearly seventeen years to let her rake us over the coals because I thought she needed to get even with me. I also thought she'd grow out of it.

She hasn't grown out of it. The main worry for me is that she's seeing ME in everyone she deals with. She gets nasty when people with a right to do it try to give her direction. She moves in on people and expects them to support her while she stomps on their sensibilities, abuses their property ... it's all stuff she does when she's living with us. It exasperates me that she has the gall to pull those stunts on strangers who are trying to be kind.

Her latest is drinking herself into a stupor (apparently) and calling for help from AA. She gets coddled and whatever else they do and uses the daily attendance at meetings as an excuse why she can't get a job. People feel sorry for her, take her in to give her breathing space and then regret it.

Before AA (and this is all in the past eight months) she went to an abused spouse group. In her parlance, any time people object to her antics, she's being abused. But meanwhile, she's pushing and pushing and pushing to see how far she can trample somebody before somebody blows up. She does childish destructive things that you would expect an adult not to do. Of course people get furious.

Before AA and abused spouse group, she had private counseling that a boyfriend paid for. The fact that he came from communist poverty, works day and night to support his father and brothers and sisters and is trying to do that and realize some of his own dreams - none of that phased her. When he finally smartened up and told her he wasn't going to do that any more, she put on crying and screaming perfomances that embarrassed the daylights out of him.She stayed in his apartment reading and sleeping all day, refused to move out, so he moved out because he didn't know what else to do. She stayed for six months and harranged him constantly, so he eventually lost his job. THEN she came back here and started the cycle all over again with new victims.

Before that, over the past ten years, she's lived dozens of places all over the world and been thrown out of each one for the same reasons.

The last fiasco came when she notified me late on a Wednesday night that she'd been thrown out and had to have a new place by Friday. For the first time in her life, I didn't say a word. I forced her to ask specifically to stay here and then gave her the conditions that she would have to talk to us about what's going on. She couldn't stay here and treat us like garbarge and keep us on pins and needles about when she would leave. She would have to go with me to social services because we did not want a permanent border here.

She gave me conditions about what we would and would not do if she came to live with us, and living with us was rock bottom for her. She would not go on welfare. When the chips were down and she needed help, I stuck it to her.

That's not true - I can't count the number of times the chips have been down. Each time I warned her it would be the last time, but each time whether it was buying out the loan on her repossessed car or sending airfare to get her home from Europe (two or three times) or getting new clothes for job interviews, I did it, hoping it would give her a chance to start all over again.

We can't afford to do it any longer. That's the only reason we're in this pickle now. It was always easier to buy her off. Now I've pulled the rug out. I did the damage and she's paying the consequences.

This is my take on it anyway. She would probably tell a different story. At this point reasons don't matter - results matter. She needs a place to live where she can depend on staying and not getting thrown out. She won't go with me to the only place I know where she can get it. I thought heartfelt's approach could work on this case.

May 5, 2000
1:58 am
Avatar
vositor
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

P.S. I've tried to be reasonably factual in the behavior description. What I really see is a frightened little girl who doesn't know how to get where she wants to go, thinks nobody wants to help her, and can't bring herself to accept the help that's offered.

May 5, 2000
2:55 am
Avatar
vositor
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

P.S. II - She's not seventeen - she's 35. I'm calculating from the time I would have thought she'd be a responsible adult and that was seventeen years ago.

May 5, 2000
6:53 am
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I am currently rereading Melody Beattie 's book "Codependent no more". You need to get this book and read it. You need to get this book and read it. You need to get this book and read it. You need to get this book and read it. You need to get this book and read it. You need to get this book and read it.Read it a lot.Read it a lot.Read it a lot.Read it a lot.

Read the lists of what codepndents are like. I'm there. Sounds like you are too.

Okay. Accept the fact you screwed up. Apologize to her that you have. Then stop enabling her to continue in this manner. Learn the twelve steps of AA and practice them on your daughter.

If others want to coddle her..that's their business. But it really sounds like you have done what you can to make amends. Now you rescue every time she needs rescuing and then regret it and find fault with her and yourself. (Wish I had the resources to fly people back from Europe 2-3 times) She has it MADE!!!!! Why should she change?

Her drinking is not your fault Her using people is not your fault. Many people who have been raised horribly rise above it and live "normal" productive lives.

You cannot change her, you cannot live her life for her. At this point it sounds like even if you have her committed she will get out, return to her current ways and continue in this way. And she will keep making you feel crazy..unless you change.

Some people never learn, some never change. It sounds like you have done everything but stop doing things for her.

Why should she ever believe "it's the last time". It has never before been the "last time" with you. She knows you have the guilt and will keep saving her. Why should she change anything? She can live life the way she wants because you have always bailed her out, let her come home, let her act the way she wanted and never said "NO". If you don't change how YOU are reacting to HER problems...she will never have to change.

She needs you to set boundaries and stick to them. She needs you to let her live with HER consequences.

She needs to reach bottom without a parent to "bail her out" ONE MORE TIME. The instant she started putting conditions on you...you should have said.."Never mind-deal's off". Harsh?
Maybe..but when has helping her actually helped her? Helping her and recueing her from her personal choices will never give her any reason to change.

Back off.

Read the book I mentioned. You are killing her with your guilt. She IS an adult. As adults we are supposed to live with the choices we make. If you continue to save her from her choices you are not allowing her to grow and grow up. It may be extremely difficult to do but in order to save her you must stop saving her.

YOU need to seek a counselor to share this problem with...or a CODA-codependents anonymous group. Codependency colors all our relationships. It can be poison to our children because our need to be needed outweighs our ability to let go and let God.

If she is not a danger to others and isn't attempting suicide...let it go. If she is embarassing and an annoyance...that's her problem. Stop owning her problems.

Even if you did raise her wrong she can still choose the right way to live. That's up to her now..not you. Other have come from terrible parenting and still chosen good lives over bad.

Get the book...read the book.

Her continuance in a horrible life style can change if you change your reaction to it. Summer is coming...give her a sleeping bag.

There is hope..lots of it. But the hope for her and for you begins with YOU.

You are her mother but you need to stop being her "mommy".

You say this is your fault. maybe so..if you want to do the right thing now you will need to leave her alone.
She has had thirty five years to learn how to be an adult. Now she needs to start practicing it.

I will be thinking about you and have you in my prayers.

May 5, 2000
2:24 pm
Avatar
heartfelt
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

As a recovering alcoholic myself I can say that if people at the AA meetings candy coat and frost over the seriousness of alcohol abuse then they probobly need to start working their OWN program. AA is about working twelve steps to live a life. These steps fortunatly are not limited to AA, NA, ACOA. GA. OA and so on.....what is unfortunate is people don't seem to, don;t want to, can't or won't even look at the steps. They are healthy life inhancing tools to grow by. Admit we're powerless over anything, believe that whatever one believes and watches over us is much smarter and definately more compassionate and will help if sought. Commit, make a healthy choice to let go of our will and allow the big guy to show what he's got for us.....freedom from ourselves among other things. We need to get honest and take a look at ourselves.....tough one...and admit where we were wrong. It does'nt make us bad, just honest. Excuse me but forget the shame old shi...guilt , shame are poison. Become ready to have our defects melt from our lives......it takes work, communication, practice. Ask God, Jesus, Budda, Ala, the heavens or anything that one believes in to take away these shortcomings and light the path. Looking at all we have harmed, verbally, emotionally, physically and so on, and just be willing, only willing to say what needs to be said, unless it would hurt them more. The heart knows.Continue to look at ourselves always and it becomes easier so eat ego and admit I'm wrong. Becoming personal with the indivduals choice of a higher loving being through prayer, meditation, letters, e-mail..whatever it takes asking only for knowledge, healthy knowledge and the guidance to move forward with this knowledge.....nothing's easy , but the gifts are heavenly..Finally, spread the seeds anyway possible. We cant't teach what we don't know. It's like having two dogs inside your head always fighting..which one wins? The one we feed the most. One step forward two back...it gets easier, much easier......but we need to do our homework, one day at a time....God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. To share with you, Vositor .....we all are like a giant oak tree with many dead and dying branches twisting and choaking out the life it has remaining. Unless we get out our pruning shears.in my case a chain saw, ha....and begin to trim the dead branches away, no new growth will emerge.......BUT PRUNE OUT THE JUNK AND WATCH HOW THE BEAUTIFUL BUDS, BLOSSOMS, AND FLOWERS OPEN RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES......IT WORKS......Co-dependent No More is a great book as janes mentioned.

May 5, 2000
3:55 pm
Avatar
vositor
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I ordered the book from amazon. Thank you for the suggestion. There are a bunch of Beatty books and tapes with five stars. The title of the one I ordered is a shock "Codependent no more: how to stop controlling others."

I would never describe myself as controlling; but the word struck a chord because of the context. Oh-oh. I can't see it in what I wrote, but I see it in every response here.

Sleeping bag. I laughed myself back down to earth. I don't think I'm capable of perfect logic yet, but it's a picture I will cherish.

In the past couple of hours, which I've spent here reading, rereading, thinking, rereading, my poor daughter has moved to the back burner.

May 5, 2000
5:15 pm
Avatar
vositor
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Heartfelt, you were writing while I was writing.

That was not compassionate or sensible what I said about her AA association.

No I really didn't know what the thought processes are - I've read the steps but didn't know how anyone would apply them - it's interesting and informative what you have to say.

She gets edgy when I ask anything more personal than the time of day, and she offers very little information.

I guess it doesn't matter WHAT I think, because it's not my call to figure out what's REALLY going, judge it, and take charge of it. If I really learn this lesson, there's going to be a lot of spare time!

May 5, 2000
9:39 pm
Avatar
heartfelt
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

vositor.many people in AA have co-dependency issues. More often than not they begin to see them as sobriety inches into their lives,,,,some never see it but I need to say my post was not suggestingyou being uncompassionate or even implying that you were insensitive.....I apoligise if that's what it came across as....All I wanted to say in regards to recovery of our pain is go to the heart of the matter, within us and begin a little at a time to chip away the ice to see the green underneath..... It just takes work.as they say it works if you work it. Alot of people struggle with coming to believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity, namely God....I struggled with this for quite some time. God also means Good orderly direction. aka forward. you and yours are in my prayers......may I not suffer, may I be at peace...may you not suffer, may you be at peace..may all not suffer, may they be at peace..

May 6, 2000
3:12 am
Avatar
vositor
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

heartfelt, no you didn't imply anything. You explained.

All of you - Janes, Cici, Hazza - all of you explained. I hope they don't take this page down for a while - ver the past few days I've spent hours here.

May 6, 2000
8:04 am
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Glad to have been of help. Your post helped me. I still struggle daily with doing to much for the people I love.

It is very hard to break the trining we women have ... that of being caretakers. Society as a whole expects us to do it all and then gets nutz when we overdo it.

I found so much insight in "codependent no more"

I don't see myself as controllling either but...we TRY to control and then are bent out of shape when others won't let us. It is REALLY hard to back off.

Ya know....the sleeping bag is silly but...an easy way to give a serious message to your daughter...

Plus we need humor... a lot of it. We codependents take other people's lives so very seriously that we need to look on the light and bright side too.

Good luck!!

May 6, 2000
11:49 am
Avatar
vositor
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Janes, how did you know I'm a mother and not a father?

May 6, 2000
11:26 pm
Avatar
janes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Call it an educated guess or just intuition.

Bottom line...most dads don't do this kind of "rescuing".

But...dad or mom codependency is the name of this game.

May 7, 2000
2:15 am
Avatar
vositor
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh.

😎

May 8, 2000
3:57 am
Avatar
hazza
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

HI there vositor.
I am glad that you are now looking into the issues of co-dep.

There is a good link on the links page here under alcohol issues, it is called "rational recovery" I found it very interesting as it offers a totally different approach to that of AA.

The belief they hold, which i agree with strongly, is that we are NOT powerless. If we drink, drug, or whatever, it is our CHOICE. now we may be at a place where we cannot work out why we are making this choice. But we are not cast adrift, we are always making choices.

|We make the choice to be co-dependent and save others, not because we have some disease called co-dep. We make the choice to act this way because there is something in it for us. Usually the thing we get out of it is peace of mind and releif from guilt because this is the only way we know how to ease the pain we feel seeing someone we love screw up, and they in turn make their CHOICE to accept their role in the circle.

I must admit that i do not buy into this idea in the 12 steps program that we are powerless. we are not, we can choose everything, but need to learn how to make the right healthy choices.

How do we ever learn how to make those right choices, when all the time we are being told to let go and do nothing?

Vositor, the behaviour of your daughter and your self sounds so similar to the behaviour of my Boyfriend and me.

He would do all the things that you descibe your daughter doing, and i would bail him out every time.

There came a point where i understood that I was enabling him, and finally I stopped. Thankfully.

It was very very hard, and still is hard, to not go solving his problems for him.But it was the ONLY way for him to realise that he has to solve them himself.

He is now working, and has stopped drinking and is maikng a huge effort to control his temper and lose the things that he feels he would live better without.

I ,in turn and making a bigger effort to live my life for me and be with him but be myself first and foremost.

this could only happen once the cycle of co-dep was broken.

But you need to make that choice to break the cycle.
If a 12 steps programm helps you do that then great, personally it didn't help me any, i found that i needed to make a clean choice not to do it rather than to reinforce the idea that i was out of control and would never be able to do it.

All the time you allow her, your daughter will also allow you to solve all her problems for her.

And you inturn do all this because youa re so desperate for her to mature. You think if you help her get that job or house then all will work out good.

YOu need to say to her clearly that she must do this for herself.

Her behaviour is NOT cause for interveneing legally, from what you write. The only reason that you want to do this is to act out the same wishes to ENFORCE help on her but with even more power behind it.
I have been so tempeted myself in the past to do the same thing, but what wold happen if you did? nothing would change, she is irresponsible and selfish becuase whe has never had to live by her choices and never had to take the consequence for her actions. she would have a great time is you intervened legally, she would have more to rebel against and have yet another thing to blame you with, it would once again be YOUR fault that she was like this and she could actt he victim even more. I know because i have seen it happen, she would not suddenly go "oh my god, you were so right, now i think i will liove a productive life"
she doesn't know how to, all she knows how to do is to use the strength of feeling victimised to lay guilt to get what she wants. it is learned behaviour. She tried it, it worked, she continued to act that way, it worked good for her.

If she is drinking herself to death, then of course you need to intervene, but you may not be at that stage yet, and you may be able to stop it getting that far.

But you do need to stop being her safety net. WHy do you think she will not take welfare???? How can she afford to have such principles? becuase she has an easier alternative - YOU. No forms to fill out, no red tape. Much easier.

Now she does not mean to be this selfish, that is just the way her life has brought her, things happen.
There is no progress in blame, okay open up to each other so that you don't go stiffling all those emotions but THEN MOVE ON.

With my boyfriend, i let things go to the point where he was taking the most amazing liberties, because i was letting him. I suddenly saw, like i had woken up for the first time, all that he was doing and i got very very angry. He had crossed my boundaries once tto often. I had been suppressing all that anger because i loved him, but by helping out all the time, he just took advantage.

When i finally said no and meant it and he realised that i was not joking anymore. It was hard for him, he tried with all the tactics he had to make me feel bad, that was the only way he knew how to live, but when he saw that that would not work he had to learn anew and find a new way forward. And he did, and he is happeir for it by far.
But this only happened because there was no-one there to bale him out. His mother refused to help anymore, I refused to help anymore.

Whenever there is the easy option, they will not try to help themselves. When there is no easy option left, they will do it for themselves. They are capable but they have been kept in false childhood and feel comfortable that way.

When you say no to someone youa re not taking away their life line, you are just removing a blanket. It will be uncomfortable for them and they will be mad at you for not helping, but it is crueler by far not to make them do things for themselves.

all the time I helped him ,things were getting more and more unreasonable. I wish that i had learned sooner that the answer was to stop giving and stop solving their problems for them. until that, nothing changes - Why should it?

But when i stopped my part in the circle things changed quickly.

This time last year, I had already stopped work due to illness, I was payiong the rent out of my savings, he was on welfare and keeping the money we got as a couple to himself, he was drinking all the time and being very aggressive and selfish and rude. I was at an all time low. and that was just some of the things he was doing!
And then i stopped allowing that to happen. I had to risk losing him and any hope of him getting better, but i did.

This year, he is working for the first time in 3yr+, he is sober, he is due t study for a degree also and is paying all the bills whilest I get pysically well again. This weekend, he looked after the dogs so i could go away with my family for a lovely weekend by the sea.

He initially resented my making him be responsible but now we are both so much healthier and happier. There is still a long way to go for both of us. but at least there is hope now, at least now he can see his past behaviour and realises his part in all his problems.

It is by far the kindest thing to not enable other people, what they used to called spoiling people!

But you do need to be brave and realise that you must do what is right, even if it is scary.
Peace
Hazza

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: UTC -8

Most Users Ever Online: 247

Currently Online:
43 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

onedaythiswillpass: 1134

zarathustra: 562

StronginHim77: 453

free: 433

2013ways: 431

curious64: 408

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 49

Members: 109319

Moderators: 5

Admins: 3

Forum Stats:

Groups: 8

Forums: 74

Topics: 38532

Posts: 714177

Newest Members:

vfienfDazy, LeonardDazy, zlzDazy, dickDazy, ltyfDazy, EnriqueApent

Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0

Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer