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how do i forgive when i'm so pissed!!!!!!!!!
September 3, 2005
5:44 pm
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lessthanalive
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okay every one. i took the massive advice to get Codependant No More and i am so glad i did. i have only gotten through the first page but it speaks to my lonely little CODE heart still...so i am wondering how to forgive and i mean really forgive him for leaving AGAIN because i do realize the only one i am hurting by not forgiving him is me. but the problem is that i dont want to forgive him. ive done that so many times and i am so angry. my spirit is restless and anxious with just this blind fury and i dont know how to let that go really because i have every right to be angry and want him to drive off a cliff!!!!maybe tere is a reason for the order of the steps, ya know...is it okay to not be ready to forgive him yet?

September 3, 2005
6:52 pm
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enoch
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Ahhh, forgiveness. what a word, and a concept.
To begin, be angry. It is good to be angry, it tells you that there is something wrong. So its your place to figure out what is wrong.
Take that FN book Codependent No More and throw it away. Better yet, burn it so no one else can read it.
A much better book is Sacred Marriage by Gary L. Thomas. While it is not the whole answer, it offers a much more realistic start to understanding marriage and Forgiveness.
lessthanalive, I know what you are going through... well not exactly... My fiance told me the other day that she does not want to get married.
That's it. So now I am very hurt and angry at her... but there's the rub... how can I FORGIVE her for all of this...
Forgiveness does not mean being a floor-mat. It is about realizing the nature of humans, aka narcissist, with each having their own deamons running around in their head, saying ME ME ME... a nemo.
But in a sense, it is about ME, Me being gracious enough to not bear the grudge, hold the anger, and bitterness.
Forgive him, daily, and the burden will disappear.
And start setting BOUNDRIES.

September 4, 2005
12:42 am
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Neshema
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okay, Enoch, what about a book for single people? I think have trouble with the concept of forgiveness as well. How was it that so many people live through the holocaust and still believed in the basic goodness of people. I was a victim of a criminal this year. How can I forgive? While Less's point is right, that one is tormented by not forgiving, some things seem unforgivable...and we say boundaries are the answer, when in fact, sometimes, boundaries are impossible, such as in a marriage, in at work. You just can't always draw the line and insist that the other won't cross it. So, what is the book for single people?

September 4, 2005
2:30 am
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Neshema
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enoch-

I went to Amazon and read about this book, it is NOT nondemoninational. What about recommending a book that is speaks to people of all faiths?

September 4, 2005
2:31 am
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Neshema
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one of the rules on this site is to separate religion....the liberation brew threads may include religion.

September 4, 2005
9:44 pm
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lessthanalive
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why do you want me to throw away that book?

September 5, 2005
4:01 am
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Regret
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Lessthanalive,

I am sorry for the hurt that you must be going through. It is ok to be angry.And in moments of anger, it is extremely hard to forgive anyone. However, let us put this in a different way and see how the anger can be challened to help you.

If anger is undealt with, it becomes toxic to the human person. So in this case, it would be harmful to YOU and not him. This is a journey about YOU and so let us focus on what would make you better. So you are angry- what are the emotions that come with the anger- do you feel like crying? Have you grieved the loss? I ask becuase I realise that if we do not take out the time to let out the pain of the loss, it stays within us and blocks our healing. It does not necessarily have to be that you sit down with a box of Kleenex (not that I am against crying). I have seen some good things mentioned on this board on grieving such as taking all reminders of him and throwing out or giving to a charity so you physically sweep him out so to speak. Pack all his letters etc and burn them. Any physical action that helps you to literally chuck him out.

Perhaps, writing a letter on what you really wish for him would also be a good thing. Vent in the letter. Be honest. Tell it as you want him to know and then destroy it. If you are into sports, gym etc, work out like crazy- anything my dear friend to physically let out the steam. Then, we can begin to look at the other things for healing.

I don't think you should throw the book away. As you mentioned it is helping you so why should you discard it?

Forgiveness does not come at once. It is a process and gradually, you would get there.

All the best.

September 5, 2005
4:27 am
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Neshema
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Less-

I say keep the book. Even if you are not "codependent." It has great advice for women in our culture.

September 5, 2005
7:47 pm
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lessthanalive
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thanks guys. i think its a good book:)

September 6, 2005
3:24 pm
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kathygy
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I believe it is very important to feel your anger fully. Then you might be able to forgive. Whatever you do do not supress any of your anger. Get it all out! Then you might pray for the person you feel angry at or see how sick they really are and how sad that is. I'm talking about compassion for the deeply wounded people that hurt us but first get the anger out. I don't necessarily feel that I have to compeletly forgive everyone that has hurt me but at the sametime I don't go around feeling angry if I've gotten the anger out.

love,
kathy

September 6, 2005
3:35 pm
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taj64
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Forgiving is not an overnight process. It is ok that you do not forgive him. I would suggest you forgive yourself and work with that. Letting go of anger and resentment is also a process and will allow the freedom to a healther life style. It is ok to be angry but not ok to let it hang on for too long. I think I mentioned this on other thread you had going. go somewhere and blow off your steam, in private, say all the things you would say to this person if they were standing in front of you.

September 6, 2005
4:33 pm
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gayle
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I read Codependent No More and it spoke to me, forgivness is hard and feeling your feelings is even harder. Its a process you go through in your own time, when you are ready. Keep reading the book, answer the questions, be honest with yourself. These things will help you to work through your anger and get to a point where you can forgive on some level, meaning you can let go of your anger and not let it control you. Good luck!

September 6, 2005
6:35 pm
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I C Gold
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I sleep with codependent no more and beyond codependency beside my bed..they are my life savers these past few months. I read, re-read, write in my journal, read both at the same time.

One of my books says
"Forgivness is NOT forgetting, it's remembering and letting go"...If I was the tatoo type, I'd have that stamped on my forehead. It's SO true.

Also remember to forgive yourself, that's an important step and that's ok to be angry and "fail" at this healing thing, it's not easy or everybody would do it! Expect 1 step forward and 2 back sometimes..I always tell myself God created the world in 7 days but he's a much better person than I am so this getting healthy thing may take me a little longer!! but you WILL do it and it'll feel great.
I'm one to talk, I went and slept with my soon to be X last night because he was feeling down and sad..Guess this is MY 2 step backwards.But, I've got no guilt and can accept that I fell of the "healing wagon" but it isn't the end of the earth. Just dust myself off and start again today.

Good Luck and know we are here for you and we've all been where you are now.
IC Gold

September 12, 2005
9:41 am
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jack122064
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Why is forgiving others even important? Not that we shouldn't forgive, but some people don't deserve forgiveness, and foprgiveness may be out of context in some cases. For exampl, with my "ex," forgiving her makes no sense, because I realize that she is a selfish, spoiled, manipulative, lying little pig. She SHOULD act like that, because sh is just living her true rotten nature. So there is nothing to "forgive."

Jack

September 13, 2005
7:56 pm
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lessthanalive
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jack- you have spoken to my inner child who is laughing hystaricly right now. THAT is why i dont want to forgive, because my ex is the same way, A BIG JERK who deserves no forgiveness and he's not looking to be forgiven anyways because hes so damn self rightious and can do no wrong. so if hes not lookin for it then i shall not plague myself with giving it and just work on me. THANK YOU!!!!!

September 13, 2005
8:47 pm
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gingerleigh
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I have heard that living well is the best revenge. I know that forgiving someone else is the best gift you can give yourself. It frees you up from expending any additional energy on it. But having been on the receiving end of forgiveness recently, I know how precious it is, and it's made me feel so differently about myself and others.

The hardest person I find to forgive is myself.

But you know what? You don't have to forgive someone until you're damn good and ready. You'll know when you're ready, when the memory of the transgression no longer stings, as though it's a slap at you personally. You can see the transgression for what it is, them just being them and making mistakes or fucking up or whatever it is that they do, and you can isolate that behavior from who you are and who they are, and then forgiveness comes. But that takes a lot of time. No need to rush it. *smile*

September 14, 2005
3:17 am
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lessthanalive
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thanks ginger. that is so true. its just all so new and uncomfortable and i feel so rotten at times but what you said is so true and i know i just gotta give myself some time.i just get so compulsive when im feeling bad and i try to think of all the good stuff i can do to make myself feel better like forgive and let go and yoga and whatever that i forget to breath which may be the best thing ya know?

September 14, 2005
3:28 am
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Lass
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Forgiveness is something we do FOR OUR OWN SAKE, NOT THEIRS. It is a poison that eats the holder of it, not the one who caused it.

September 14, 2005
7:06 am
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SoulSpirit
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Forgiveness frees our spirit to move forward. When we harbor unforgiveness, it is like a little worm inside of us, wiggling it's way through us, tearing us apart on a daily basis. Unforgiveness can cause illness, and while we think we are getting our revenge by not forgiving, the other person is going on with their life, and we are the ones in turmoil. Forgiving someone will set you free. Don't forget that there is a Higher Power who holds the person accountable for their deed. Your unforgiveness is no different than their deed. Forgiveness is the beginning step to a free spirit.

September 14, 2005
8:39 am
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shyshy
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Jack, forgiving is really more for you than for the other person. There is tremendous healing in forgiveness.

I can't go around hating or being mad at someone for something they did to me and not forgive them after a while because it makes me physically ill. So, I choose to forgive, but I never forget.

September 14, 2005
12:28 pm
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taj64
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You're not ready to forgive. You are angry and until you figure out how to let go of it so you can be free of it, only then may you be ready to forgive. Right now it is ok to be angry but when it is a problem or too unhealthy for you in your life then you need to address this. Seeking forgiveness helps you to get over the anger. You don't have to directly forgive this person or confront. And it is not always an overnight process. It takes a lot of time to forgive as long as you are committed to it. This person though they hurt you, is also human. Understanding why she lies and is maniulative, why she is the way she is a result of something really bad happened to her when she was a child. It doesn't mean you want to be in her life but compassion goes a long way.

September 14, 2005
4:24 pm
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kc30
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I would say if you're pissed, don't forgive! There are stages to go through before you can forgive someone, and anger is definitely an important one.

So don't worry about forgiving...just enjoy being pissed. Eventually, it will exhaust you and will feel like a weight around your soul. THAT is when you can start to think about forgiveness.

You have the right to feel your feelings completely. So feel free to be totally pissed with no apologies to anyone. I found myself and my strength again in my anger stage...which lasted for months and months. It was great...very empowering.

kc

September 15, 2005
1:12 pm
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lessthanalive
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taj- i think that i am so angry that i just dont even want to understand why he is doing these things. i know he had a crappy childhood i know everything. if i could be a expert in anything it would be knowing my ex. i am usually extreamly compassionate and that has allways been a part of my nature but i know why he leaves me and its because hes a coward and when things get rough he finds other arms to cry in for about 9 months or so then he comes crawling back. and i see how he shuts his heart down and his brain off and he turns into a plastic monster with no feeling at all. its like he waks up and turns off all the emotion switches. its the most bazar thing because its like he has amniesa or something!!!and that makes me so mad cuz i KNOW he'll be back and i want to be with him but i refuse to drag our son into this soap opera. i dont want to forgive him at all...i want justice...and i feel guilty for wanting him to suffer but hes made me suffer so many times and he hasnt suffered at all. i dont know what to do..........

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