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how can i resolve my jealousy ?
February 11, 2004
2:16 pm
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gingerleigh
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"Close loving relationships" are a wee bit different from "flirtatious lady friends", don't you think?

February 11, 2004
2:23 pm
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gingerleigh
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And worried dad, you didn't answer my question:

"Had it occured to you that her gut instinct might be right?"

February 11, 2004
2:32 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Chives,

I think the thing for you to do is to

1) Make very clear your agreements about monogamy. And keep them. And TRUST each other to keep them.

2) Consider how your relationship with parents, especially DAD colors your relationships with men. Sounds like Dad wasn't exactly trustworthy.

3) Develop more relationships for yourself, and try to deepen them and allow as much intimacy as you can into them.

4) SUPPORT each other's need for realtionships with each other.

5) From time to time, talk about how is it going.

February 11, 2004
2:44 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi gingerleigh,

Yes, her bf might be a philandering fool. If she finds evidence of that, she should confront him.

But again, in the absence of actual evidence of infidelity, what is wrong with flirtatiousness?

The sharing of energy, the appreciation of how someone makes you feel, the expression of good-natured flattery even if it has a "sexual" charge, does not constitute infidelity.

I have a quite butch lesbian friend who occasionally pinches my butt, or occasionally refers to me as "Ya big stud!" Her partner has absolutely nothing to fear from me, believe me. And she knows it, and approves of our relationship. Still, the attention feels good.

I have another female friend, who because of her physical condition and also because of her personality, is absolutely insistent on a lifetime of sexual abstinence. Still, she is sometimes "flirtatious" in outrageous ways, like leaving messages on my answering machine saying "Hey, call your brown sugar!"

I am currently single. After what I have been through, I do not really want a girlfriend, don't want to make the acquaintance of any women, date them, woo them, have sex with them. Not now, not ever. But, if I ever do, you can bet I will be weeding out the ones that object to my realtionship with the two previously mentioned female friends. If they don't trust me, they can piss off.

February 11, 2004
3:04 pm
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gingerleigh
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Worried Dad, you said: "Her partner has absolutely nothing to fear from me, believe me. And she knows it, and approves of our relationship."

That's the big thing here. Complete open-ness about the relationship. That's not what it sounds like is going on. I'm not saying the guy is out to philander or be a dog, but chives' self esteem might not be the only one that needs to be worked on. Her boyfriend might need that extra sexual attention from outside the relationship a little too much.

Now this might be extremely "codependent" or "unhealthy" of me, but if something were really wrong in my life, the first person I would look to for consolation would be my husband. And if he weren't available, my next avenue would be to a female friend or family member. If I were single and my best friend were male? I'd turn to him... UNLESS he had a girlfriend. I don't know, it would just feel really funny to me to be calling a guy up at 1am while he is sleeping there next to his girlfriend. And I would feel even weirder about it if he felt that he had to hide the content of our conversation from her. My husband and I had this exact problem, except I was the one with the male friends who kept calling. It took me a while to see it from my husband's perspective, but now that I see it, I can't deny its validity.

But that's just me and my husband, and what works for us might not work for other people.

February 11, 2004
3:07 pm
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acj
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Wow, worried Dad:

That is pretty powerful, negative stuff there. It actually sounded kind of bitter. First, any woman wouldn't have a problem with you being friends with a lesbian for obvious reasons: You aren't her "type". Secondly, the sexually abstinent friend doesn't sound like a threat, either.

Women that girlfriends/wives tend to worry about are single, flirtatous women that don't know personal boundaries. Meaning, they don't care if the guy is in a relationship or not. They want him, they try to get him regardless of who it hurts.

My first sign that a man "could be" unfaithful is that he has low self-esteem and gets defensive when questioned about his relationships with females. Personally, I've met very few "normal" male/female heterosexual friendships that didn't cross some sort of boundary at some point. Usually, one of the individuals "want" something, whether that be attention, sex, money, companionship, whatever. There is usually an alterior motive. With my ex, he had such low self-esteem that I don't know if he would have had the ability to say no to a sex offer. Generally, if there is good communication between husband/wife then the woman will not get jealous.

I'm not a jealous-type person. When I started having jealous feelings, I was thrown for a loop. I couldn't understand why and thought I may be having some flash back from my childhood or something. Once I really questioned why I was feeling that way and did some serious soul-searching, I realized that I DID have reason to feel this way. The friendships he had with the internet girls were secretive. He would tell me EVERYTHING else voluntarily but when I directly asked him specific questions about his "relationships" with the internet girls, he became defensive. If there wasn't anything going on that he thought might upset me or ruin his chances with me, why not just tell me???

What I guess I'm saying, and this of course does not apply to all women, is that sometimes jealousy of this nature can be caused by a subconsious, legitimate feeling that your relationship could be in jeopardy or that something isn't adding up.

Yes, there are paranoid women out there that make mountains out of molehills and that take every action and completely rearrange the facts so that it always turns out to be a direct attack on them. BUT there are a lot of women like me that think rationally and logically. When I feel something, I'm usually right. It's when I ignore my gut feelings that I get into trouble. But I usually wait around to have concrete proof. My mother used to jump at the smallest thing and go bulistic.

Anyway....This goes both ways. I've seen men get this way, as well. Not the guys I date because I do my best to reassure them when I sense the evil "green-eyed" monster peeking around the corner. And, if there is good communication, neither party will feel isolated or insecure.

Well, that's my two cents worth.....

acj

February 11, 2004
4:00 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi acj,

You said: "That is pretty powerful, negative stuff there. It actually sounded kind of bitter."

I guess you meant the "not now, not ever" part?

I will confess that part of my charge on this issue is having been hunted down like a dog, tricked into exchanging vows of mutual sexual fidelity which she never had any intention of keeping, and then having my trust in her used against me.

Look, I know this is irrational, but let me confess....Having made that promise was huge for me, and made me feel as if I were "mated for life." I still feel that way. I do not know how to reverse that, don't know if I ever can. Or should. I made a promise. To someone who, it turns out, never existed. What a mind f**K.

February 11, 2004
4:18 pm
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gingerleigh
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We definitely have compassion for where you've been, WD. And what you've learned through that experience will be valuable to others (and already has been). Just please try to stay objective when dealing with people here, especially new folks, who are looking for support and may have raw emotions of their own to deal with. Just because you were abused by a domineering and controlling woman who exhibited unnatural jealousy as a symptom of her underlying monstrous nature doesn't mean that *every* woman who is jealous of her boyfriend flirting with other women is deep down a control freak who just wants to dominate and isolate her partner.

What I see from your posts and advice to Chives here is that you believe she is obviously the one who is in the wrong since she admitted that she had jealous feelings. Feelings are feelings, and for most people who aren't completely twisted up by life and biology, we have them for a reason: (1) either a perfectly OK situation is triggering something scary for us and we're reacting in which case we need to learn to temper our reactions a bit, or (2) a not ok situation has registered with us and our internal alarms are going off and alerting us through these jealous feelings which we should acknowledge and then look for the root cause of.

Since Chives is coming here wanting help in getting over the jealousy, that means that she took the time to research and wants to understand her "problem". And we ALL know how unlikely it is for a true abuser to seek out help and guidance and take a long hard look at themselves. I know you want to help chives and others here. Just please bear in mind how you would feel if you read the words you just typed to her.

February 11, 2004
4:49 pm
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acj
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Worried_Dad:

If this is any consolation, I wish there were more guys out there like you that knew about commitment was... I have to admire that about you.

I really hope that you don't give that woman power over you for the rest of your life. To be honest, I really don't know your story. But, if you let what happened with her prevent you from finding REAL happiness with someone else, then she's already won. My philosophy is that just because the last one didn't work, doesn't mean there isn't someone else better suited for me. Or, in other words, "Next!!!!"

Life is a journey. Your last relationship didn't "fail". That part of your story with that person is over. She was a page in your history book, not the final chapter!

Now, this may sound a little dumb, but if someone can get what I'm saying here:

I once tripped up while I was walking down the road. I scarred up my knee pretty bad. Does that mean I should NEVER walk on a road again? No, it just means to be more careful....
Did that make ANY sense???

((((((hugs))))))))

acj

February 11, 2004
5:12 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Gingerleigh,

You wrote: "What I see from your posts and advice to Chives here is that you believe she is obviously the one who is in the wrong since she admitted that she had jealous feelings."

The name of this thread is :How Can I resolve My Jealousy?" and not "Is my Jealousy Justified?"

You also wrote:
"Just please bear in mind how you would feel if you read the words you just typed to her.
Hi Chives, "

The last post I typed to chives was this:

"I think the thing for you to do is to

1) Make very clear your agreements about monogamy. And keep them. And TRUST each other to keep them.

2) Consider how your relationship with parents, especially DAD colors your relationships with men. Sounds like Dad wasn't exactly trustworthy.

3) Develop more relationships for yourself, and try to deepen them and allow as much intimacy as you can into them.

4) SUPPORT each other's need for realtionships with each other.

5) From time to time, talk about how is it going. "

If anyone else has suggestions, I'm all ears.

Yes, I know chives is in all probability not and Abuser. That is why I bothered getting detailed, rather than just ranting at her. Every one of us, can in a moment of emotionality call somebody a name, break a promise, tell a white lie, yell at the dog....

An Abuser with a capital A makes a lifestyle of that sort of thing. I think it IS worthwhile pointing out that jealousy, isolation, and ultimatums are the stock-in-trade of abusers who we do NOT wish to emulate.

I am gratified that chives is an intospective person who feels conscience about how she treats her bf and actually seems to really love him. Chives? You hear?

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