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hopelessly devoted to a married man
July 19, 2006
1:37 pm
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StronginHim77
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tc66 and Taj....

I think you are both making very good points. There is, indeed, no "cookie cutter" solution for everyone. And I totally endorse leaving ANY relationship (married or otherwise) in which one partner is emotionally, mentally or physically abusing the other partner. This would absolutely include ALL relationships with addicts or the personality disordered (narcissists, borderlines, etc.) It is impossible to have a true "relationship" with any of these individuals because they are incapable of emotional intimacy and inflict great stress and mental/emotioal (and sometimes physical) damage on those who struggle to remain in a relationship with them. (Did I mention that they also can destroy your finances and your children's mental health, as well??).

Yes, each of us must evaluate our own situations on a case-by-case basis. As a chaplain, I counsel ALOT of people. Believe me, there is no "formula" for solving their issues and struggles. Each couple is different. The dynamics of their relationships are unique. Each must be addressed on an individual, nonjudgmental basis.

That is what these threads are for. With blessed anonymity, we can share our secrets, our burdens, our struggles and receive encouragement, personal experiences and hope from others who have stood (or are currently standing) in our shoes.

Personally, I have never advocated trying to sustain a relationship with someone who is married. This is not simply for "moral" reasons. On a practical, human level (and as an older woman who has been in that situation years ago), it simply does not work. EVER. Even if you wind up with the guy (or gal) who is/was married, they usually wind up repeating the same behavior with YOU down the road. Why? Because infidelity is usually a PATTERN of relating...not an isolated event with the "wrong" mate. Don't misread me. There are certainly situations out there where an innocent party finds him/herself involved with an abusive or mentally unhealthy spouse. And that innocent party has the right to exit the relationship. And SHOULD. My slant on this, however, is that the "exiting" should be accomplished BEFORE entering into a new relationship...NOT while still trapped in the toxic one. Does this make sense?

Love,

Strong

July 19, 2006
2:04 pm
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Bramble
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Hi, I'm new but have often visited the site.I too was involved with a married man who I loved dearly and I thought that this was reciprocated.He almost took over my life,home and time.I was a widow(5 years) and craved somebody to love.He treated both me and his poor wife abominaly.She found out about me and it almost killed her and she was willing to tolerate his relationship with me.Several times I told him to hop it but he always came back with tales of woe stating that she was psychotic,unsociable and totally dependent on him.I melted when I looked at him...you were right, he could talk the talk and although I didn't "buy it" I enjoyed the flattery and it intimacy.All my mates said I was mad.My sponsor in AA gave me excellent advice and I bypassed it all as I thought that I knew what was best for me!(After 21 years sobriety)At last, I have gotten rid of him,sure I miss the outings and "love".He never loved me or his unfortunate wife.We a were buffers to polish his ego.I know that my feelings for him will fade into indifference.He couldn't give a toss about me.I do pray that he makes it with this wife (who he left a wife and 2 kids for)who is very rich and a lovely lady.He was shallow and a pathological liar and even though I'm hurting,I feel liberated.My late husband was a faithful,honest and well adjusted man.He was not overtly romantic but I felt safe and loved and he gave me a lot of respect.There are other men out there who are like him and I hope that you find one who deserves and gives love as you do.Thankyou to you all for sharing your experience,strenght and hope.My last words to you are GET SHOT and then,my dear, you will get a life.

July 19, 2006
2:18 pm
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kc30
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I believe in honesty, committment, loyalty and respect.

None of these things can possibly exist in an adulterous relationship. What you have instead are lies, deception, dishonour, betrayal, selfishness and inconsideration of another person's feelings, dreams and life.

How can this be healthy? How can anything good and life-giving come from something that is shrouded in so much toxicity.

There can be no love here. Just dysfunction and sickness and pain and confusion.

I've been on the receiving end of such betryals...there is absolutely no justification for adultery. It is wrong.

My humble opinion...

kc

July 19, 2006
7:57 pm
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taj64
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hopelesslittlered, hope you are ok. Despite the harsh reality of it all, I care that you are going through this horrible time in your life. When you take out all the pieces of this thread, there is just one thing that stands out and that is your feelings and heart. It doesn't matter about all the rest. And I KNOW how it is and you must be hurting really badly and I am sorry for that. But you will be ok and your heart will heal.

July 20, 2006
12:00 am
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hopelesslittlered
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Hi taj64. I am fine. Yes, this hit home. Some of it rather harsh. The truth is the truth and believe me I am not in denial about the truth -- just having a hard time dealing with my heart/brain conflict. I do have to say though that it appears that some have gotten the opinion that I have no conscience or heart. And as far as the type of person I am, I am a good decent person who got caught up in something and is struggling horrribly to fix everything without hurting herself more. I love deeply. Anyone I love I would bend over backward for. I do not intentionally harm others. As for my prior marriage, this issue had nothing to do with the breakup of that. There were major issues there that also took a great affect on me. You see, there are many things that have contributed to who I am today and to what I am going through. I am not a cold hearted shrew. I am a woman with very deep emotions that is trying her best to keep herself together. I am a single mother of 5. I love my kids. It's myself I have a hard time dealing with. So, for anyone who may view me as some cruel person, I am sorry you see me that way. I am just like everyone else -- human.

July 20, 2006
6:43 am
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nutrition
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Don't forget truth! You are the type of human that has committed adultry in front of your children because you weren't happy. You avoided answering the questions about stepmothering, loyalty to him in sickness and in health. If you were with your married man and he didn't make you happy, you'd leave him too. Happiness comes from within. No other person but strength in God can give you happiness. If you are not happy with your children, what do you do? I don't think you are honest enough with yourself and I have been there. When I was like yourself, I hated the perosn that spoke like me, but now that I am in the truth, I knew that she was real. To tell you it's all about you is a lie. What about other people. If you and I encountered each other and all I cared about was myself like you seem to be, what type of friend can you be? That is why I said love isn't teddy bears and hearts everyday. It is work. Few people are mature enough to maintain relationships. When people are unhappy they are focusing too too too too much on themselves. Volunteer at your kids school, a cancer ward for kids, the homeless shelter, get out of yourself. That is happiness. You find the time to be miserable, you can find the time to not be.

July 20, 2006
7:38 am
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kc30
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This is why adultery is so wrong,....look at the pain and heartache that you are suffering through, hopeless. And his wife must be in agony. And the children involved.

I believe that if I feel good about myself, and believe in my worth, that I would never compromise myself by settling for a man who would commit such a horrendous act of selfishness and betrayal. I would see it for what it is, and not idealize the man and overlook the obvious.

I'm not saying it's "bad" people who cheat and "good" people who don't. I think people who have high self-esteem and self-respect don't cheat (or get involved with a cheater), and people with low self-esteem, who don't know their value and worth, who accept this behaviour in themselves and others.

I would again say that love is not possible in a adulterous relationship. Love doesn't cause pain...adutlery hurts everyone.

I am happy to hear that you don't beat yourself up for choices already made. IMHO- It doesn't help to run ourselves down when we are already low. We need to give ourselves a little hug when we're hurting, not another kick in the head. Only when we feel safe, and accepting of ourselves and our flaws can we begin to grow and heal.

peace
kc

July 20, 2006
7:41 am
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taj64
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oh please, Nutrition, you should step off your high horse and take a look at why you think relationships are such hard work. Sounds to me like you are unhappy with your own marriage and personally maybe it is you that is not being honest. Happiness comes within not what you think it should be. I think you are not a loving person in this thread and you are not helpful to hopelesslittlered. She is on here to deal with her emotions on something that has already happened. Pointing fingers and labeling is not doing any good. This is about HER, not about you. I don;t see your compassion. If she avoided your question, then I don't blame her because I don't think she is asking to be judged.

Thank you for that response. I too could relate. I too think I have a big heart and simply gave it to the wrong guy. If you want to toss around blame, most of should be on the married guy anyway. He is the cheater, he is the one that should have committed. You are single and free to see whoever you want. He was not. He should have been the one to stop it especially if he knows of your feelings. And you made a mistake and are trying to move on and fix your emotions. Don't let anyone beat you up, because in this life nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes and learns lessons in life. I hope you stay. You can learn a lot in healing process on this site. Im still dealing with mine after a long time. It takes awhile to pick up the pieces.

July 20, 2006
8:13 am
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CAMER
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what i see here ((hopeless)) is trying to have your head and heart on the same wavelength. Maybe your heart is doing too much of the thinking now. Maybe if you list your wants and needs and list what you do want and what you don't want you could find out more about yourself.

Most of all think about you for a moment and keep yourself happy and your children and not worry about others.

(((camer)))

July 23, 2006
12:29 am
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hopelesslittlered
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You know nutrition, I am beginning to think that you are a perfect person. I admire you for that. I am glad to know that there is one person on the face of this earth who has never been selfish and fought for their own happiness even if it meant overlooking others'. I do want to clarify something though. My children have seen NOTHING!! They have no idea about this man. If by chance they find out before I am ready for them to, I will deal with it. My children are happy and healthy. They are taken care of. I am far from selfish. I am the one that people call when they need someone. I rarely call on others for help. I can and do make it on my own with 5 wonderful children. My personal life with this man is just that -- personal! Before you accuse me of doing anything in front of my children, you need to know what you're talking about. To the rest of you, I really appreciate your thoughts and concern. I came here to express my thoughts openly in order to possibly help myself sort things out. You are helping me. I want straigt talk -- not judgement-- just straight talk. That's the point. It helps me deal with the reality. My judgement day will come -- but not here on earth. As for now, I just need people who are not emotionally involved in my situation to help keep me focused. Thanks to all of you who try to help me do that!

July 23, 2006
12:52 am
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hopelesslittlered,

I have a lot of respect for you, being a single mother of five. That takes a lot of sacrifice and love. It is certainly understandable that you want some romantic love and to have somebody else nurture you for a change.

You say to the effect that when you love somebody, you give it your all. That is admirable, but you are now in a situation where you love a man who, due to his being married, can't love you back and who has no business loving you in the first place.

I hope you will not subject yourself to any more pain in this matter. I hope you will cut your losses and run away. Please remember that he would not be faithful to you even if he divorced his wife and married you.

Seeker

July 23, 2006
10:34 am
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taj64
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Hi. Sorry you are dealing with these emotions. I too am still dealing with it. The other day I saw my married man on the road. I sink cause I know he is on the way back hom to the woman he decided to stay with when he claimed he loved both of us. Men who get caught usually end up working it out with the married partner. In my situation he got caught many many times. I even talked to her. She got me on the phone after she first found out about me and we talked for many hours. You see, he cheated on her before me, 3 different women. Only in this case, he fell for me, and me for him. I guess since he kept going home to her even despite knowing he still have contact with me that was her control. It took many years for us to finally break it off. He appears to have moved on and worked things out with her. It takes a strong woman to want to work on a marriage that was destructive. What he did was leave a bunch of broken hearts to be repaired. They will be ok for both of them would not budge to seperate. I in the beginning was strong and always "available" to his emotional needs. He was not there for me. Im still reeling even after almost a year. Everytime I see him for just a second, i am reeling from the whole painful process. I have kids. I too kept it seperate. they did not see much yet was it worth it to have a mom who has a broken heart. You can keep it inside but it is not really fair to my kids to have a mom suffer this way. I know all the emotional pain. I know all the pain of the judgments even people in my own family and on this site. The other woman is known as the homewrecker. This could not be further from the truth. The homewrecker is the married man who keeps up with a woman knowing he is hurting her. Sure i know it was wrong, and I know my part, my responsibility in it, but those that point the fingers really have not been in those shoes. I totally understand wanting support in dealing with how to piece your life together, because being in this situation you did not ask to be hurt, you do not enjoy it, you do bring it on, you simply fall for an unavailable man. I want to piece my life back too so that I to can give my all to someone else. But honestly how can i ever do that if I am constantly being reminded of the old one. I have hard time moving on, despite how it looks like I have it all and I should have moved on. My pain is deep, so I know. This thread is about your pain and how to deal with that, not about the morals of it, because that is too late, but hearing how I feel might help you to realize that it is quite possible for you to want to not have hope at this time. This pain I carry, why I don't get rid of it, it is hard, painful, long and dragging and I want nothing more for it to go away. Even trying to date it is hard to put my heart into it. Yeah yeah yeah, I put my effort into myself as well, yet thought of him are with me everyday no matter how hard I try. That is the reality of it if you become too obsessed. And I am obsessed. And I have tried to be "over" it. I think you just might be able to help me as well. I wish you a lot of luck in your decisions, and your journey no matter what happens.

July 24, 2006
7:50 am
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hopelesslittlered
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You know taj, I feel everything you are saying. My married friend has had another affair besides me over the years too. At this point, I still talk to him a few times a week. I still see him off and on. But, I feel myself trying to detach even if it is a slow process. It's like a teeter totter. One day I'm on one side saying that I can't and won't do this anymore. Then the next I feel like I have to because I can't breathe. I am scared to death to try to stop seeing him because the pain feels as if it will overwhelm me. Right now, his wife is still at home with him. She has not contacted me yet. I feel she will though when she's ready. I don't quite know how I'll handle that. All I know to do is to continue trying to live in "reality" and forget the fantasy part of it because after all the fantasy is the good most of the time whereas the reality isn't so great. So, I try to focus REALITY.

July 24, 2006
7:55 am
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nutrition
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July 24, 2006
8:00 am
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nutrition
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You think you're not committing adultry because you are not the one married? You think kids don't know what is going on? You say truth is truth? I can't tell you what you want to hear. Adultry is sin and you are being part of it. There is only one perfect person. When you find him, that's when you'll be in the truth.

July 24, 2006
12:25 pm
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Dear Nutrition, nobody here is condoning adultry. Some of us are trying to get past a mistake. I am myself. Every relationship is different. Even yours. This site is about counseling and getting advice and dealing with relationship issues. Your views on adultry and religion might be better discussed on the lib side for I do not see you helpful to point fingers as you do. Your judgments are not welcomed by me.

hopelesslittlered, I will get back to you later for I myself made a breakthrough with my recovery. It is called absolute no contact. I have made the commitment to it though he has not and i have not. There is to be absolutely none. It is only way to get out of it and to recover. I have read some articles over the weekend, and my part in this to not healing properly is my abandonment issues. I know i will hit some rough spots in my life but the important thing for me is to not suffer the way I have. You will be fine as long as you keep in mind, you cannot change what has happened. By the looks of it, he decision is not with you but her. And the calls that you are trading are nothing more than weaning yourself off of the relationship. It has taken me way over a year to wean off. Do you really want to spend that time? It is better to cut off completely, fast and feel that hard pain and you will get over it much faster. And you will get in touch with what you want, what you need. I think you need to get out of now, since you are in emotional pain. He cannot be available to you, he cannot give you what you want, and even if he did, the chances are very high it won't work out anyway because you have not lived with him in the real world. He is only presenting one side of him to you and that is the only draw of him. The rest is not so good and a reason why is out there messing around. Without trust you really have nothing. I don't think you can honestly say you can trust him.

July 24, 2006
5:06 pm
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Hi I am new,
I have been reading this thread and I must say to Nutrition, there are lots of reasons and situations that lead us to do what we do. And you having really no idea what has gone on in the life of hopelesslittlered. I am married and interested in someone else who is not married. And on behalf of the married person it dosent always have to be the EVIL SINNER or the cheaper to keep her motto. Leaving is a BIG steep. It is scary to think of change. I worry about my kids and what will happen to them how will they feel. And guess what... my kids are not my husbands AND my kids are over 18. I worry about money, how I will be looked at by family and friends. Truly I could go on and on about by worries. Also there is the love I do have for my husband. Maybe it is not the love we all see in the fairy tales or in the chick flicks but I do care and I dont want to hurt him. We have a lot of years together. My point in all this is the married one is not always a bad guy.
However hopelesslittlered I am also not saying to keep him. I think when the right thing to do comes to you, you will know it and do it. I dont think these things are as cut and dry as a lot of people think they are. It also sounds to me like you have some great support with taj64.
It is always nice to have someone who does not have to say BAD or GOOD just what they feel and what they have experienced.

Good luck Thanks for letting me share

July 25, 2006
9:23 am
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hopelesslittlered
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Taj, good luck! I really hope you are able to accomplish your goal of getting over this guy. I relate to you so well. I'm just not at the point you are. Maybe I will be soon. Please let me know how you are. You know I am here. I might not be much help but I can listen.
Nice to meet you Duckduck. It is really great hearing from the other side of this predicament. I believe what you say. I know that my married friend is torn. I do not believe that he is cold hearted and is stringing me along. I think that's one reason I hang in there though. Because I believe that he is hurting in his own way too. I pray that things will work out the best way possible for everyone involved. I also think you're right about change. I think it is hard to change. That is probably one reason the married guy is still married and one reason I am still waiting. It is hard to break my own heart.

Thanks to all of you who offer your words of support and understanding!

July 25, 2006
10:19 am
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Yes my married man was torn as well. I can relate to that as well. He was hurting over me as well. But he had to make a choice. He got over me much quicker than I did him. Distance allowed him to repair his marriage. they both wanted it to work even despite his feelings for me. He is not cold hearted either but towards the end instead of him pursuing me, he became indifferent because he had to. He was in therapy for this. I went to therapy with him. He had a wife that was desperate to hold on to him. He never left the home despite telling me what a volatile relationship they had. I heard from him what it was like, and I didnt udnerstand why they continue with it, yet they stick it out. She also cheated on him but before I came along. But apparently my wrong was worse than hers. I accidently called him on cell phone and she picked it up so he was very angry with me. Anyway it is not worth it to be in a triangle. I hope you see that someday. I do see it differently than you but at the time I thought he wasn't stringing me along. He was telling me he loved me. And how hard it was for him. Not to be harsh but he is in a way stringing you when he is telling you he is hurting. What good does that do for you? He made the bed and now sleeping in it. Of course he is hurt. In a few months times, his hurt will fade, but yours will go on and on until you face that he is not there for you. he is not making plans for you. He knows he cannot be with you, and that is why he is hurting. I know all this sounds harsh. Im sorry you are going through this. But seriously, think about what you are in denial over. This is not going to change and will remain the same, until one of the three of you decides to make the big change. None of you are. And a vicious cycle continues and will only get worse.

Im finally attempting to date. It is going well. It is breaking me out of the funk that I have been in for a year. I am looking at things realistically and not looking to go to past. I am healing, and moving forward. I am paying attention to red flags as I date. Im much more careful than I have ever been in my past. I choose to end something quickly if I see things I know I do not want. This is a change for me. I always pursued guys that were unavailable. Now I have the power that I didnt have to change that. I hope you do the same someday.

July 25, 2006
10:20 am
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And when I say unavailable I don't just mean married men. I mean men that don't commit or are emotionally unavailable. Those are the one I have attracted, the ones my heart picks but not my head. My head does not want this.

July 25, 2006
10:27 am
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Ok to explain further about none of you budging. All three of you are waiting. You are waiting for him to come to you and say here I am. She is waiting for him to say I want you to commit to me and me only. And he is wanting to be with you but also not wanting to lose what he has with her and all that goes with it because it is too risky. He wants both worlds. He cannot have it. He likes the fantasy part with you. He knows that once the fantasy become real it is no long fantasy and because of this he won't take the risk. But his feelings are strong yet he cannot move. He won't do it. And therefore he won't be the one to make the change because he is awaiting for one of you to make the change and chances are he is leaning towards his wife changing to make the decision to either throw him out or want to keep it. Or he is waiting for you to end it because possibly he knows that he won't have to end it if you do and he doesnt have to make the difficult decision. And if this is the case, he is not man enough to face up to the mess he has made. What do you think of all this. Any of this relate to you? Just some thoughts to ponder.

July 26, 2006
8:34 pm
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hey there hopelesslittered. Hope you are hanging in there and feeling better. hugs, TAJ

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