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Help Needed Once Again....HSB
September 2, 2007
10:45 pm
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Hurts_so_bad
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I was a pretty regular on this board about 2-3 years ago. Haven't been on a lot since then, but I'm back needing help yet for a second time with the men problems yet again!

I've been seeing this man for approx 1 1/2 yrs. We were exclusive until one time he went to see his ailing aunt in WA. Long story short, he came back telling me that his aunt invited a friend of hers from church for dinner (without him knowing supposedly) and they were very attracted to each other. She has a 15 yr old and supposedly told my guy that she couldn't have anything serious until her son was 18 and moved out. Great. He has been going to WA every couple of months to see his aunt and this woman. He wants to "explore" yet he wants to be exclusive when he's in CA. I should mention that he told me from Day 1 that he would be retiring out-of-state. He is due to retire in approx 19 mos. He tells me he loves me, treats me like a Queen, yet he still continues his visits to his aunt's house every other month for a week.

Logically of course I know I will get hurt...heck, I'm already hurting, but I can't seem to let go. I keep hoping that he'll change his mind. HELP!!!!!!!

September 2, 2007
11:45 pm
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Hi. His behavior is UNACCEPTABLE. Maybe his definition of exclusive and my definition of exclusive are 2 different things. The word exclusive should not even be in this mans vocabulary. The reason why you cant let go is because you are convinced you can fix this problem. This problem is beyond repair. The damage has already been done. The message that you give him by having anything to do with him is that what he is doing is OK. Please take the remote control that this man has to your life out of his hand. He has no respect for you whatsoever. He was arrogant enough to tell you what his plans are what about your plans? I would guess that they might be not to associate with anyone who would treat you like that.
Yes what he has done to you hurts. It would hurt anybody. If someone is hurting you, you need to protect yourself and stay away from him.
This man has one foot in your life and one foot in another womans. Doesnt sound like he is in a position to be in an exclusive relationship to me. He is a selfish uncaring person to tell you to be exclusive when he is not. This is not an exclusive relationship.
As far as your pain is concerned it must be horrible, but it will start to go away as soon as he does.

September 3, 2007
12:03 am
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sdesigns
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Uhhhh, Hurts.....this is the same guy again?

Well, what has changed- nothing.

Seems like you've put yourself in another bad situation and don't know what to do.

Hurts, you're doing it again.

September 3, 2007
12:31 am
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Hurts_so_bad
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If I could only be strong. Why am I always in such a position? SD - this is the Firefighter I posted about several months ago. I am just too nice....I've been reading the book "Women who love too much" and I'm trying to get the strength to not only let him go, but to confront him and tell him off. Like my daughter keeps telling me, by me not asking hard questions, and letting this go on, makes it OK for him to treat me this way.

Other friends tell me, I should simply get what I want out of this relationship and keep my options open. But that's just not me. I want someone that is happy with being with only me.

Destinystar - to answer your question - his definition of "exclusive" apparently is being exclusive in CA....WA is another matter. How can a man be so sweet and totally treat you like you're the only one in his life when you're with him, calling twice a day, etc. saying I love you, and yet want to explore another relationship? It doesn't make sense. I could understand it if he was trying to keep this from me - but he is the one that told me....I didn't just happen to discover this fact. Does this make sense to anyone?

And why am I being so needy? Why can't I respect myself more and tell him to get lost? I know I should, but I can't somehow.

September 3, 2007
12:20 pm
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HSB- You asked how he can do this? Because you allow it. The reason why you feel so hurt is because he is obviously not into you. He doesnt care about you or what you think. He is using you to get whatever he wants out of the situation. Why does he say and do nice things even though he is pursuing a relationship with someone else.... because he is insincere and will do and say anything to use you.

You should not care about much less listen to what this man is saying. Look at what he is doing!!!!!!!! He has straight up told you that he has been going out of the state to pursue a relationship with someone else. And has been doing this for quite some time. Does this look like he is doing anything to benefit the relationship he has with you???? Is this in your best interest?

You can feel needy, hurt or whatever. But please do not let these negative feelings rule yourlife. Your feelings are causing you to make the wrong decisions. Yes you are needy but you need yourself to use your head to quit associating with him. Send him a message that you think more of yourself than to allow him to treat you like dirt. Do this by cutting all ties. Then find someone who can fullfill your needs and make you feel good about yourself. Find someone who is mentally and physically 100% with you 100% of the time. You cant do it while you are with this jerk. Every minute you spend with this jerk you take away from being with someone who can actually give you what you deserve. If you just cant break away for whatever reason do what he is doing and try like hell to find someone else that you like better yourself, the same thing he is doing to you. He has made you feel like garbage that is why you feel so bad. Find someonw who will make you feel like gold so you can feel good again. With breakups there is pain, a lot of it. But you will get over the pain and him.

September 3, 2007
12:49 pm
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Destinystar - thank you so much for your post. It makes a lot of sense and I can't argue with anything that you said. It just hurts like hell to think that anyone can be so hurtful to someone else and use me the way he's doing. Reading your post and having "reality" down in black and white really hit home.

I'm trying to work up enough anger to drive out all the "warm and fuzzy" feelings that keep creeping into my mind about him.

You're right, I need to break all ties with him. I just have to bite the bullet so to speak and accept the fact that I will have to go through many days, weeks or maybe even months of pain and tears. I just hope I can do it. I have moments when I feel so alone and this terrible urge overcomes me to reach out to him and accept his lies so that I can feel better. But I know it's only temporary because he'll always go back to WA....no matter what I do to try and get him to forget about her.

I'm going to log onto this board every single time I get the feeling of hopelessness and post on here. Maybe with all of you helping to knock some sense into me, I'll be able to succeed. Life sucks!

September 3, 2007
12:59 pm
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sdesigns
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Hurts:

Do you see any similarities between the situation with this guy, and the last one???????

Have you spent any time figuring out why you put yourself in almost an identical situation?

I think the key here is to focus on you and what you are really looking for, and not so much looking at why THEY do what they do. Once you see what they are doing, ask yourself why you are staying around for more.

SD

September 3, 2007
1:06 pm
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Hurts_so_bad
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Yes, I see a lot of similarities. I just can't seem to get my hands around the concept that being good to someone you care about and even "spoiling" them always ends up with me getting hurt. I would love to find someone that treats me with the same respect and honesty that I treat the men I've had in my life. It just seems that I'm always taken advantage of.

What do I have to change about myself? Do I have to turn into a total bitch, play head games, play hard to get...what exactly do I do that's so wrong? Is that what men want? A challenge? They don't want "nice"?

September 3, 2007
1:54 pm
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sdesigns
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Hurts: I would suggest that you go back and read thru all of your old posts. There was TONS of feedback for you.

Also, maybe pick up some books to read like "Women Who Love Too Much", "Codependent No More, And "Why Men Love Bitches".

I would like for you to provide some feedback on what you have learned from before, how you have grown from that experience, and what you think you may need to do to avoid putting yourself in that situation again.

September 3, 2007
2:02 pm
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Hurts_so_bad
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SD - I'm actually already reading "Women Who Love Too Much"...the other 2 books you suggest, I already have as well. "Why Men Love Bitches" was pretty insightful, but it just seemed like if you follow the advice in there, you're really just playing a game....you're not allowed to be yourself.

But I will take your suggestion and read through my old posts. I'll have to think about what I've learned from my other experience, maybe nothing because I find myself in the same boat.

It seems the one thing I need to change in myself to avoid this type of situation again is to NOT be myself and play head games.

September 3, 2007
2:42 pm
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sdesigns
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No, Hurts, I don't think that is the case. I think what needs to happen is that when you find a man that isn't going to be true to you, or isn't looking for the same thing you are, you need to move on and find someone who is willing to give what you want. I think thats where the problem arises- is that you're not willing to accept that they aren't the one for you and you try to either change it or hang in there til they change their mind- which isn't going to happen. Then you tear yourself up, wonder whats wrong with you, etc.

There's nothing wrong with being nice- but maybe you're being nice to the point of being a doormat and letting them walk all over you, when you know they are doing it.

SD

September 3, 2007
2:51 pm
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Hurts_so_bad
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Good point SD. Obviously I still need to learn that I can't change or "fix" anyone. That's the co-dependent in me and a very, very difficult concept for me to learn and accept.

I seem to attract "unavailable" men probably because they can see me coming a mile away! I need to stop carrying my emotions on my sleeve. I suppose when I first do meet someone, I need to not only be more cautious, but also I think I need to not expect anything from the relationship and for a change let them be more proactive. (If that makes sense).

September 3, 2007
2:52 pm
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HSB- I am a Bitch and it works for me. What happens is they spend so much time focusing on you when you are one and trying to figure you out and meet your expectations that they dont have time to deal with other women. Instead of wasting time trying to figure him out try to figure out everyway possible to get him out of your life. If you are hurting bad associating with him will make you feel worse. B/C he is the cause of your pain. Its like running towards a fire after you've been burned.

If a man loves a woman he will love her and do whatever it takes to please her no matter what. She doesnt have to do anything, but pick up the phone and answer his calls, accept HIS offers of dinners, gifts, etc. She doesnt have to call him, or give anything back accept appreciation. When a woman starts calling a man, asking him out, and buying him things he feels useless and out of control. They are designed to be providers. When a woman does all of this they wind up resenting her thinking that she thinks he cant provide for himself much less you. If you keep spoiling men you will get the same results. Starting now. Do nothing for this one. Including talking his shit. Set standards. Tell him you think he has all the right in the world to pursue this woman, but he no longer has the right to contact you. Then give him the dial tone. Take back your power back. I put my husband in jail twice, sold the house and got rid of everything he owns because He deserved it. He might not like it but he still loves and respects me. He is too worried trying to get back in my good graces that he doesnt have time to think about moving on and finding others. I plan to end things with my husband but on my terms. With dignity. Like at the end of my foot.

September 3, 2007
3:02 pm
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Hurts_so_bad
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Wow Destinystar! Now that's the way I would like to be. You are an inspiration.

How did you ever get to this point, or have you always been like this? I guess I'm still from the old school where the woman spoils her man, takes care of him, etc. Maybe in this day and time, that's no longer wanted or needed. But, apparently my way doesn't work anymore. I end up being taken advantage of and obviously my feelings are not respected.

September 3, 2007
3:03 pm
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P.S. He just called my cell and land line to "see how I was doing"....I didn't answer either phones. It's a start.

September 3, 2007
4:06 pm
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Definitely time to step back and initiate "No Contact" with this user. He is mistreating you because you are allowing it. Draw the boundaries. He just stepped over a HUGE one because IT WASN'T THERE. Follow me? Men (bless their cotton socks) love the "hunt." They want the prize that they have to WORK to earn and WORK to keep.

If you roll over and let him abuse you in this fashion, you lose his respect and his desire to tow the line and keep you in his life with appropriate behavior(s).

I think you have passed the point of salvaging this relationship. He already has your "number" and there is nothing you can do to change it. So, change your phone numbers, block his emails and initiate total "No Contact." You don't have to explain yourself. He will KNOW why.

- Ma Strong

September 3, 2007
10:04 pm
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MA- YOUR POST WAS funny it made me LAUGH.

HSB- You go girl! Didn't you feel the power by not taking that call? Now you got some power KEEP it. Dont answer the phone. As far as your impulse to spoil men, by giving them what they want this comes under the heading of a self control problem. It would help if you could control these urges and not act on them. Another way to get you to resist the temptation to spoil men, & give into their demands is to look at where it got you. Time to try a different approach. I dont know if what your doing is wanted or needed but I know for sure it doesnt work.

OK HSB send me a post. I want you to make a list of things that you want, think, feel and know from the most important to the least important.

September 3, 2007
10:57 pm
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Hurts_so_bad
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Ok Destinystar...here goes. I want:

Honesty in a relationship
A One woman man
Respect in a relationship
Passion in a relationship
Unconditional love from my partner

I know I can't keep taking the same path I'm on, I know I'm too much of a doormat when I do that and in the end I won't be "the one". I just can't seem to give up this feeling that I will the be one to initiate change in someone that has faults. Who the heck do I think I am anyway? I'm sure I'm not the only woman that has ever tried to change this guy and failed....what makes me think I'm so special? I just don't know.

All I know right now is that I want to hurt him the way he has hurt me and if the only way I can do that is to initiate "No Contact" I would really try very hard. But would he know why...that's the question. Why do I care about whether he knows or not? Because I want him to know that I'm not a total doormat and that I finally began to see the light. Is that so wrong to want that little bit of satisfaction? Probably everyone will tell me yes - it is wrong. I shouldn't even worry about what he thinks. Maybe not, but it would sure help me.

September 4, 2007
12:01 am
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Dear Hurts,
I'm so sorry you are going through this. While reading your posts I could feel your pain.

But I do have to tell you, that I had felt very similar to what you are going through now. It's taken me many years and a really horrendous breakup, which recently just happened, (I had to hit bottom) to discover that that kind of thinking is known as being codependent. If you check out on the web a book called "Codependent No More", she gives a list of things you can check to see where you fall. I was a "rescuer" and a "fixer" and I kept attracting men who needed rescuing and fixing. After this last one, I'm so done with these kind of men, they need a new word for done. I'm actually on my way to now doing things for ME!

I hope you'll check it out. Good luck and a big hug to you. Hepburn

September 4, 2007
12:05 am
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Hi Hepburn,

I actually have the book Codependent No More. I've read it and I'm STILl finding it hard to break out of the mold of trying to "fix" people.

As I'm writing this, he has called a second time today both on my cell and landline. The man has no clue. I haven't returned his call from this morning and he still calls tonite calling "sweetheart". You would think by now he would at least ask what's wrong. But, no, his message said that he would try back later. Geez. This is exactly why I'm thinking he won't know WHY I'm not contacting him unless I tell him. How do I handle that and still remain in power so to speak?

September 4, 2007
1:41 am
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Hi Hurts,
Hmmm, well, sounds to me like you're not ready to take care of YOU yet.

If the man has no clue, then maybe you should give him one. Or are you afraid if you do tell him he'll move on? Why do you feel it necessary to control him? Believe it or not, you've given him the power over YOU. He's controling YOU.

I don't think there's anything wrong with telling someone how you feel about how they are treating you. BUT it might be wise to have a plan. Do you want to stay with him? Do you want to leave him? I'm sure you've heard this before: YOU CAN'T CHANGE SOMEONE ELSE. YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE YOURSELF. XO, Hep

September 4, 2007
1:50 am
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HSB- I think those are great things to want from another person. I would like to know what you want for yourself?

Next time find a guy that is up and running.

Fix yourself. Be true to thine self.

What makes you feel so responsible for others? What makes you think it is up to you to change others? Just curiouse.

No contact is the best way to tell him "NO MORE". Puts you in control. Sometimes the best thing to do or say is nothing. It sends the loudest message. Yes, he will figure it out. In time. First he will try to manipulate you with messages. He'll want to know how your are doing. How the hell does he think you are doing after he told you he is pursuing an interest in someone else. Take a cue from what that woman is doing that turns him on, she is inaccesable (lives far away), puts her son first, is making him wait till her kid turns a certain age and he has bought her BS hook, line and sinker. She is hardly spoiling him or catering to his needs much less cares about what he thinks, but she definatly has got his attention. See he has to spend a lot of time figuring her out, and trying to meet her demands. This is what he prefers. Not someone who is always available and puts his needs before theirs. It doesnt take a crystal ball for me to figure out what this A hole will do next. Lets see when you dont take his calls he will show up at your door conerned. But dont fall for it. Be prepared. You can A) tell him to call next time as you were on your way out the door to meet someone and grab your purse and keys and leave (drive around the block if you have to). Or B) if you know who it is let him beat the door down while you feel the power of driving him crazy. If he is really good he will send you flowers (can always take the card off and give them to your grandma). They hate being ignored more than anything. But dont jump in and save him. Let him face himself and his choices. If he is really interested he will continue the pursuit for a month. Then you can come to your senses and realize he is a two timing SOB that doesnt deserve you and what he did to you he will do to the next one. If you want to pay him back, dont give in to the no contact thing. It works. It is the only thing that works 100% of the time.

September 4, 2007
11:57 pm
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Destinystar - I love your confidence. You seem to have men all figured out. I'd love it if you were right about this guy. I would love it if he actually started pursuing me in that fashion ....but I'm feeling so vulnerable. I have to be honest here and say that I am a bit afraid that he wouldn't pursue me if I kept up the No Contact. Isn't it too late already for me to turn over this new leaf? Would he wonder why all of a sudden I stopped talking to him and played hard to get? He knows me pretty well by now - he knows I always cave in. The few times I have expressed my disappointment in him he tells me that it's hard for him to reach out to me when I get angry because I come across as mean and sarcastic. Then he just clams up....and that scares me. I am afraid of losing him damn it!!!!! After all he's doing to me, I'm still afraid. Uggggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

But maybe you're right in saying that I would come to my senses and realize he is a SOB...right now I just can't believe I would....but I want to be able to let go.....I hate myself right now - I hate myself for being so weak and insecure - I hate myself for being so needy that I would let some man walk all over me. And most of all I hate myself for falling in love with him in the first place when I KNEW he wouldn't be around after he retires.

Hepburn - I agree, I'm obviously not ready to take care of me first....no matter how much I tell myself that I am. My codependency issues keep me from not wanting to "fix" other people and/or manipulate them. I am seeing a counselor and have been for the past couple of years - but I'm not making a great deal of progress apparently.

I keep thinking that this long-distance thing will come to an end. They're hard relationships to keep up and the fact that he is still seeing me tells me that he's not all that serious about her either. I can't believe that if he was serious about her, he would still be with me. He must be a player and have no desire to settle down with anyone. Sometimes I wonder if once he moves he wouldn't expect me to see him every couple of months when he comes down to visit his father and brother (they live local). I've often been tempted to ask him that. Maybe I should ask.

When I read all these posts on here, the strengths of some of the women (and men) to let go of a difficult relationship amazes me. I just wish I had that power. But here I am, setting myself up to be hurt over and over again.....

September 5, 2007
6:45 am
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Hello it has been awhile. Other than this relationship, I hope you are doing well. The problem I see is that this is the same man that you have been seeing since the last time you were on here and it is basically the same story as it is today as it was then. I remember he had told you that he planned to retire somewhere else and back then he had no intention of committing himself to you yet he loved you. This was a big red flag back then. What happens is if you ignore it you lose the opportunity of finding someone who will commit to you and you set yourself up for trying to change an outcome that was never really going to be. It is really important to listen to what the man says and believe it when he says it. He has been saying along he was not going to commit to you. He is not the commital type and you deserve better than that. I would not even bother with hard to get and start letting go immediately. The scenario is going to be the same no matter what you wonder in your mind. If this guy truly loved you completely and wholly, he would be wooing you and taking action to be with you, not just part time. You must continue to keep on loving you and yourself and what you have built your life on. It is normal to feel afraid of losing this man but honestly you never really had him to begin with. In a true committed relationship you don't have these doubts and wonders. Again you deserve better and it is better to let go so you can be free of this pain. It will indeed fade. Inviting him in and doing things on his terms are not going to be good for you. Good luck and keep talking to counselor and friends. You're a good person with a great family but stuck on a man who really isn't worth all this pain. He is a player so see it for what it is. Players do not make good husbands at all.

September 5, 2007
9:25 am
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Hurts-In Reality he isnt pursuing you he is pursuing someone else. If you cut ties with him and he didnt contact you it would tell you all you needed to know then at least the end would come on your terms not his or do you prefer to be abandoned? You have already lost him that is why he is brazen enough to tell you he is actually in contact with another woman that he is interested in.
Who cares about what he wants what he expects? He doesnt care about what you want or expect. In other words if he cant USE you like an object with no rights or feelings then he will abandon you? Then let him go right ahead. Better now then later.

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