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Help me please!!!!!!
January 24, 2001
10:18 pm
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ranmar1
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Well, what an interesting day today. We discussed where we were. My wife is now confused because my behavior has changed so radically. She says she wishes I was this way two years ago, and it is hard for her to accept my behavior as being genuine. I told her that I am making progress with myself, thanks to counseling, and that I thought her confusion is based not on my behavior, but on her lack of dealing with her own problems. I told her in a non-confrontational way, that I thought I have moved so far ahead in dealing with myself and my own feelings, and that my concern for her feelings was now secondary. I am more concerned with my own feelings first, and concerned with the well being of my girls. If she wants to be a part of that, great. She says she doesn't know where this is all going, and I said the same. I told her though, that I can handle whatever the outcome is, and that I will move forward with or without her. If she decides not to be a part of my life, she will have to live with that decision. It's so interesting to see her watch my behavior, as I am now smiling, laughing and starting to enjoy life a little more. No longer do I have to make the most money, or have the best. It's not a priority anymore. I can achieve these goals while still enjoying myself and life. I hope for her sake, she starts to see the light. I know I have. I look forward to our joint session tomorrow. I will keep you all updated as you have all been so wonderful in your support.

January 24, 2001
10:43 pm
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Alena
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What she is seeing in you is your breaking away from her control. And that is not only confusing her, it's threatening her. She's not so sure you'll be there if/when she comes down off this exploration trip of hers.

Congratulations, you have a long, long way and I'm so happy for you and your girls.

Continued good feelings.
Whatever happens with her, don't lose that new found self-esteem of yours.

January 24, 2001
11:42 pm
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ranmar1
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Thank you. I am excited to explore my feelings and outcome, although I will admit, I am scared to death too. Update after our session tomorrow.

January 25, 2001
12:08 am
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Jhon25
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Good luck in your session ranmar!

January 25, 2001
4:21 pm
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TEE
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GOOD LUCK RANMAR!

January 25, 2001
8:48 pm
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Molly
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Amazing isn't it, just a slight change, and all changes, keep on keeping on, can't wait till the session,

January 25, 2001
9:41 pm
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lost soul
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What a great progress ranmar1! good to hear that.

January 25, 2001
11:09 pm
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Anonymous
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Ranmar, you are a good person despite what your wife says and does.
you are making a strong effort, but that effort should be directed towards yourself and you only.
it will make you stronger to deal with whatever comes,
also your wife should know the true ramificatiosn of divorce are horrific.
too many people think kids are resilient but studies show eighty percent live with divorce pain and trauma well into late years.god bless

January 25, 2001
11:09 pm
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Anonymous
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Ranmar, you are a good person despite what your wife says and does.
you are making a strong effort, but that effort should be directed towards yourself and you only.
it will make you stronger to deal with whatever comes,
also your wife should know the true ramificatiosn of divorce are horrific.
too many people think kids are resilient but studies show eighty percent live with divorce pain and trauma well into late years.god bless

January 26, 2001
10:49 pm
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ranmar1
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Thank you everyone. Boy, I can't believe how long this thread is, and all the support you are giving. I hope some day to give back to all of you. Our session yesterday got heated, I was the one that got angry. My wife says that I am suffocating her with all the affection and wanting to be close with her. She said she is totally confused with "this new person who is happy and upbeat." She said she doesn't know who this person is, and is trying to figure out her feelings, but needs not to feel "smothered". The therapist gave me a challenge for the next month, to back off a little, and let her have her space to try and figure things out. Wednesday night and tonight, she went to school. Last night she went out with one of her divorced girl friends, to the movies. Next weekend she is going to Las Vegas with her old work colleagues. In two weeks she is going with another wonderful friend (the one who calls the police on her husband for abuse) to Mexico overnight, for her girl friends birthday since she doesn't want to go with her own husband. I asked if she thought this was excessive, and to try and balance it out. She responded, and the therapist agreed, that this is her time to figure out her feelings, and that I have to try and deal with my own fears and insecurity with it. Then she laid a bombshell, that I got pissed off at, and threw back to her. She said I am making her feel guilty about the girls, since I have been spending a lot of quality time with them, and she thinks I am trying to make her out to be the bad guy. I jumped back that nobody can you make you feel anything. You are the only one that can make yourself feel this way, and if that is what she is feeling, maybe SHE ought to do something about it. I told her that I will continue to be the best father role model I know how, and that I am not going to change the way I am with our girls because she is feeling guilty. What a bunch of crock I thought that was. The therapist didn't say anything about it, just let us vent a little. I now have to deal with backing off from her in my emotions and outward affections, and let her have "her space". My next meeting is one on one with the therapist next Friday, and hers is next Thursday. Then we have another couple session the following week.
She seems so cold, no emotions, and really confused. I, on the other hand, am starting to feel pretty good, knowing that whatever the outcome is, I can work through it. Who knows, maybe I will be the one who gets tired of all of her crap, and tell her to move out. I doubt it, but who knows.......Best to everyone.

January 27, 2001
3:16 pm
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Molly
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With all the issues and growth that will come through dealing with all the issues, the anger, the accusations, the abandonment, who knows where it will end up. I wonder how she would have responded say 4 years ago, you up and go to vegas, or mexico, or spent 2 nights a week out with the guys, doubt it would have been ok, but then again.....

January 27, 2001
9:31 pm
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Alena
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Does the idea of "finding yourself" too sound the least bit feasible? Like, when she is supposed to be home, you aren't there. You need to be going places too.

So, it sounds like she needs to travel around the world with friends in order to figure out her feelings.
What the heck feelings are these that she can't figure out in the same town with you. I would be just as angry as you, sounds like a crock. A good excuse to go party and act single and totally separate from you and her responsibilities as wife and mom. Sounds like a crock and a less than capable therapist. Is there any actual communicating between her and you at home? Any trying to connect?
It's party time for wifey and don't point any accusatory fingers at her, she's sorting through her confusion.
She's partying and staying married at the same time.

Good luck Ranmar1, maybe I'm just in a lousy mood to be writing my opinions to you. Just sounds like too much baloney from wife an therapist for a guy who is trying so hard to do the right thing.

Keep fighting the good fight...

January 28, 2001
11:39 am
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ranmar1
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Alena,
You hit on some valid points which I am going to bring up in my one on one this Friday. Why is it okay to continue to act singel, party, etc., while the rest of us sit back and act like it's okay. How do you find yourself when you are constantly around these people and activities. Maybe I've been the fool for putting up with this for so long. How do I handle this with the responsibility of two beautiful daughters?

January 28, 2001
11:20 pm
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Alena
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I would continue to be a very stable part of your daughters' lives. The three of you do things together. When wife is gone, take the daughters out to eat, to sports activities, whatever it is they are interested in. Continue to be just what you are....their Dad. The stable one. Don't answer for your wife's behavior. I think your daughters are old enough to see it, and make their own judgement. If they have serious questions and complaints about her, let them take it up with her. But of course, never trash her. That's why I think the best way to go is just stay out of her relationship with them.

But then also, after balancing some good time with them, they stay home and Dad goes out. To reconnect with yourself, your friends, and find some good feelings for yourself. YOU....not the dad in you. Ya know?
Your responsibility to your daughters also includes being good to yourself and energizing your spirit. Dad's time out. Balanced with time with the girls. Sound okay? And I would go out to do whatever I wanted when the wife was home also. Leave her partying self at home alone with the girls sometimes too, see how she likes being on receiving side. Not that it's a game, but you can't always be the one who is left behind. It would kill anyone's moral and self-esteem

And yes, I would definitely ask this therapist how wife's total freedom and lack of responsibility helps the cause. She's on a vacation from reality. What are you responsible three to do while she plays the single game?

Is there less tension and stress in the house when she's away?

January 29, 2001
11:13 am
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Cici
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How old was your wife when you married? It sounds almost like she's going through a second adolescence where she has no responsibilities (forgetting the family she made in the mean time, with you!)

January 29, 2001
8:07 pm
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Molly
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I want to know if you are supporting her play time??? Most people can't afford this type of leisure activities. I say if she wants to continue this lifestyle, let her pay for it, part of the consequences of her singular actions.

January 29, 2001
9:23 pm
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ranmar1
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Unfortunately, she quit work to stay at home with our daughters, five years ago. She feels now that this was a wrong decision, and is now going part time to college, working for a degree. I am the sole supporter of our family, and earn a nice income, so we are not without. I know I have contributed to this problem by constantly contributing to the independent lifestyle she is living. She has acess to whatever she wants, whether it be new golf clubs, golf lessons, lunch with the girls, or off with the girls to dinner and a movie. I don't know how I could have been so stupid or blind to what I was doing. I guess when you truly love someone, you become totally blind by reality. My problem is I was more concerned about her feelings than my own. Counseling is allowing to realize that I should be more concerned about me and my daughters. I know that this is a long road. I feel like I have been waiting to see what she wants to do with our relationship. This is not fair. I need to build up the nerve to take the same stand, deciding what I want for me.

January 29, 2001
9:29 pm
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lost soul
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When enough is enough. Nobody wishes to be a victim forever!!!

Enjoy your time with you daughters. They are the person whom you should focus your attention.

Take care!

February 1, 2001
11:24 am
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ranmar1
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Well everyone, here is the update in this continuing soap opera. I have been making a concentrated effort to not criticize and back off my physical touching to her, per the counselors instructions. It is hard though since this is not really the person I am. Today is a one on one session for her, and tomorrow is mine. I have been doing a lot of soul searching through all of this, and ofcourse, am still in the same mind set of wanting this relationship to continue. However, I know that if it does, we both have to adjust and that our relationship will never be the same (at least for me). There has been so much pain inflicted. She still shows very little emotion. I still feel she is not being totally open with the therapist. I am going to be asking a question to him, on my own, as to why I am being given all these challenges, to act out a certain way, to give her space, and she hasn't been given any exercises to my knowledge.(If so, it certainly doesn't show). I want to ask why I should ignore her lifestyle of going off with the girls, while I am home with my daughters. What kind of role modeling is this? Any suggestions?

February 1, 2001
9:40 pm
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Molly
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Stupid, I don' think so, it was called trust. The origional agreement. You make the money, she keeps house, raise children, and acts the role of wife. Her current behavior is in contradiction of the agreement. Where is the Love, honor and cherish????????? No physical contact, well she is stuck and I am sorry. I don't care if your 10 or a 110 years old, there is nothing like financial consequences to bring reality into focus. I am not an attourney, but the longer you continue to allow her to live this lifestyle, the more the court is going to support her efforts to have you continue to pay for it. I always advise the women to protect their financial ass, so I am going to suggest the same to you. It is going to cramp her fun at the country club, if you quit paying her green fee's, and those trips, where she has left you to be the sole parent of the children, let her go back to work, to pay for her singular fun. It can't and won't happen if you don't pay for it. Not so much vindictive, just part of the reaction to action. Marriage is a partner ship, certain understood responsibilities, and compensation. She doesn't truly comprehend how rough it will be to live her life style that you are supporting. The going to school was one thing, the rest is BS considering the stress to you and the family, bet you even have a housekeeper to . I hear so loud the lost corporate wife, bored, with an identity crisis, with no feel good ataboys, due to the lack of ataboys that society gives to a mother and good house wife. too, much time, too much money, bad influence in her choice of friends, lack of support in committment and marriage due to the lack of participation in a religion????? Lets face it the girls don't need her like they did when they were younger, and where is the validation? Mid life crisis. So maybe the marriage can be held together, it will not be the same marriage for years, time will heal the wounds, and hopefully, this is the worst wound, a selfish self centered period of time. It can with your continued patience change where she stays in her current role, but must contribute. I would just as a precautionary measure get some legal advice, this could cost you pleanty, you are in California aren't you?????????
You know what type of role modeling this is for the girls, and I would language loud, that it is not acceptable to you period.

February 1, 2001
11:41 pm
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lost soul
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Still following.

February 2, 2001
11:47 am
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AF1
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Ranmar1, I agree so much with Molly. Although Molly, I am a little surprised to hear you say all that because I know that you are some way involved in counseling folks and I was thinking Alena was right, what kind of counselor allows this wife to continue this lifestyle like it's some kind of therapy? I hesitated to come right out and suggest he cut off her funny money source, but hey, they are going to counseling, and nope, I dont have a therapist license so what do I know.

Seems like common sense says he is getting the raw end of this fairy tale deal.

Ranmar, get yourself a little tougher.

You are just encouraging her to step all over you,and middle age crisis or not, nobody deserves to be a doormat and especially since you are the working spouse and she just is too "confused" to be a wife, but not too confused to take the money to support her getaways. Kind of a crock isn't it?

You sound like such a good guy, willing to give the benefit of the doubt, willing to jump through hoops to give her space and save this marriage. After you've done all that, what will ever make you think that she's decided she does love you and wants to spend the rest of your lives together? I don't know. Even if it is salvagable, is it going to be enjoyable? We only get one life, remember.

Molly's suggestions sound like they may be a big step to take for you, but what do you have to lose? Is this arrangement working for you now?
Is it looking like it ever will? She needs a good eye opening, like hey, Ranmar1 isn't home, where is he? And hey, where's the never ending flow of money? A job? Hmmph!
I don't live in Cal. but, she must be planning on living off of you if this joy ride of hers ever ends and you actually split.

Get an attorney, Sport. An attorney may be more important to your sanity in the long run than any therapy will be. Gotta look ahead and not be blindsided.

February 2, 2001
8:41 pm
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ranmar1
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Oh wow. Some interesting feedback. Well, today I had my second one on one therapy session. Take a look and see what you all think. There was a bombshell dropped and you'll see what conclusion I threw out to our therapist.
My wife was molested for a four year period as a child, from 5-9, by an uncle. She said her older sister was too. The older sister got help. My wife "dealt with it on her own".They told their mother, and the mother denied it could have happened. (so much for a supportive mother- good role modeling don't you think?)Now, here comes my awakening today.........
I asked the counselor if the following is possible: Could it be that she doesn't want the physical affection, feels like she is being smothered when I do lay on the affection, and runs off with the girls because she is afraid that my affection to her is in some way related to her being molested as a child, touching and feeling? Has she built such a wall of resistance up over the years, that any kind of intimacy is interpreted as a threat and relates back to the childhood violations? The therapist was taken back, and the expanded on the idea, by asking that if it were true, and I experienced it (role reversal) how would I react to someone wanting to touch me????Wow, what an eye opener. This could explain her excuse for wanting to go away with her girlfriends, no threat of intimacy. The therapist said I have to be very careful not to bring this up until the timing was right and introduced only in our couples session. I asked if she would ever confront her "demons" and his response was maybe. He said no therapist can pull this out of her if she doesn't want to deal with it. She has mentioned to me that she hopes he doesn't go back to her childhood, because she feels there is no need to. This could be a bunch of crock, and a defensive move to block out that possibilty of revisiting a very hurtful past. What a day this was......I now have a different perspective on her behavior, not that it is right. I have always told her, since being first married, that I always felt she had some kind of protective wall up, and that I would never hurt her. She denied she had any wall up. Now I know I was right all along. Okay, so where do I go from here? I still have my emotions to deal with. I know I can't fix hers, so here we are. I'm probably going to start a new thread soon, called "Help me please x2", because this one is getting so long. I hope you all stay with me, as you have all been such an inspiration to me. I can't believe how much you have all been there, so supportive. This is a good world, and you are all proof of it. Thank you......

February 4, 2001
10:05 am
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lost soul
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Well, good to hear that. Seems like a good progress for you. Bravo!!! Hope things will work out this time 🙂

February 11, 2001
1:46 pm
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ranmar1
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Please go to "Help Me Please x2" for continuation. Thank you

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